Jesus died a outlaws death, even though he was sinless.
The pain that he had to bear, so I can go to heaven.
Being beaten, and abuse mentally before hanging on the tree.
So much pain, he had to endure to ensure us to be Heavenbound.
Still everytime I lose my temper, like a ungrateful child.
It makes people think that christianty is a farce.
All that he done for me, a man full of sins.
I still wonder why he gave his life for me, me a loser.
Thank you for loving me unconditional, Jesus thank you.
I just hope that after I am gone from this Earth.
That I have made a difference in other peoples life.
Giving them the courage to follow you too Jesus.

if you were perfect you would not need to believe

I have read enough real life stories of holocaust survivors and I see
the same selfless behavior many times over. I think any one of
thousands would have, at that time, given their lives just as Jesus had
done. I believe their suffering was just as great, but they were not
all given the same knowledge that Jesus had, so in many respects, I hold
thier selflessness, thier courage, their faith, above Jesus. For they
had only 'faith', Jesus had knowledge, after all he was God.

Redykeulous,

The difference would be, that nobody would suffer that horribly by
choice. Jesus did. He could have healed himself, killed his enemys and
been carried away by a flight of angels, but he choose to die so that we
could be forgiven our sins.

I agree spider. But what gets me is calling the cross holy. What is
Holy about it. In History the cross did not come around into the faith
untill 325ad. When contantine said he saw a cross in the sky and it said
with this sign conquer. He was greatly outnumered in the battle and won
easily. Then that is when the council of trent ( i believe from memory
it was called at least) decided what the state religion was going to be.
He wanted to make christianity the same for everyone and make the pagans
happy too. Sorry to say most of the traditions of the faith were turned
into pagan rituals ie christmas,easter mainly. The cross is mainly found
in egypt hyrography. Yahweh brought the Isrealites out of that slavery.
Then after the cross was brought in and these beliefs many of the church
fathers who disagreed had to flee for thier lives as constantine made an
edict that anyone who taught anything else would be sentenced to death.
Go look at all the wars down through history that have been fought in
the name of the cross with soldiers wearing a cross on the front of
thier uniforms and on thier shields. The the Inquision when people
started to go back to thier roots the church would take heritics as they
called them who where going back to celebrating Passover and the Feast
of tabernacles and others. Were captured and put on a cross outside the
church on suday morning and given the choice of denying thier so called
Jewish beliefs or burned to death after church services while the
congregation sang hymns in a circle around them. then to warn other
heritics they took the heads of them and put them on poles at the church
steps as you entered. I REJECT THE CROSS as being evil not HOLY. Please
prove me wrong. Miles

MILES THE CROSS REPRESENT THE GRACE THAT WE ARE GIVEN , THANKS TO JESUS
CHRIST DEATH THEN RESURECTION, THE CROSS ALSO REPRESENT JESUS HEALING
POWERS leave your pain at the foot of the cross

Just prove to me that what i said is not true. Thats all don't just
blindly believe what you have been told open up an encyclopedia or
search inquisition and read history and PROVE WHAT I SAID IS A LIE?
Miles

If you look up "cross" in your concordance, you will find many
scriptures that refer to the cross as THE symbol for Christ.

1 Corinthians 1:18
--------------------------------------------------------------
For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but
to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
--------------------------------------------------------------

Colossians 2:14
--------------------------------------------------------------
having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees
against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way,
having nailed it to the cross.
--------------------------------------------------------------

Philippians 3:18
--------------------------------------------------------------
For many walk, of whom I often told you, and now tell you even weeping,
that they are enemies of the cross of Christ,
--------------------------------------------------------------

You too are believing what has been taught since 325ad. The cross
could never of been what he hung on as it says "cursed is one who is
hung on a tree" Tell me why did the Romans break the legs of the thieves
so that they would die? Miles

After someone was stoned to death for blaspheme, they were hanged on a
tree to be an example of what happens to blasphemers. When Peter said
the Jewish leaders had killed Jesus by "hanging him on a tree", he was
saying that they killed him because they thought he was a blasphemer,
they did not crucify Jesus, the Roman's did. Peter was reminding them
they they were responsible for the death of a man whom even their own
laws found innocent.

In what way does this all make a wooden cross anything more then an
idol?

How can an idol be holy?

He did not bear his cross Saul did. Read it it is there.

You are arguing apples and oranges and placing yet another symbol
between those that would beleive and the truth of the holiness of
Christ.

The Messiah did Die on a stake. When the Roman soldiers came Yahshua
was already dead so they pierced him this had to all be done to fullfill
prophecy. The cross you hold so dear satan has put in your head. The
thiefs had thier legs broken because being tortured on a stake you ahd
your hands and feet both nailed together straight up was the body. the
torture made you have to push yourself up as you gasped for air. this
went on for hours. When it was time the soldiers broke thier legs . When
this happened thier body could not be lifted up and they suffacated to
death. The Romans only killed the Messiah to satisfy the Elite of the
church. Just as the same Elite teach you a lie to keep you from knowing
the truth. Yet you have to want to follow only truth when you do this
then the promices will come to you. The promice of the Holy Spirit and
man will teach you no more for the Spirit of Yahweh will live in you.
And you will then learn from him and recongnize truth from falsehood.
But this knowledge be careful if you decide to learn for yourself and
stop believing tradition. Study to show yourself approved. not believe
what someone says to be approved. Simon Magnus saw the strength of the
Holy Spirit yet phillip knew his heart without knowing except the Holy
Spirit reveal it to him. Learn from Simon magnus example so that you do
not follow him instead. Miles

The cross is a symbol of Jesus' sacrifice and resurrection, it is not
worshipped. It's not an idol any more than the ichthys. The cross
isn't holy, but what it stands for is.

Yahshua is Holy the Law is Holy just and true. miles

I thought the cross was an old pagan sun symbol...

Miles he did not die.

When a dead person is pierced their blood does not 'run like water'

Blood runs like water when a person is near death.

This would mean that when he was taken off the hill cross he was alive.

Can you be pierced in the side with a spear and not even flinch? Miles

i guess you could if you were God?


did i get a prize!!

oops...sorry

If you were unconcious from pain and I reckon you could.

the crucifixion story should be told to young children to comfort them
just before they go to bed.they may have nightmares if they did not have
all the gory details.