Topic: Why There is no Hell (in the Afterlife)
no photo
Sat 06/12/10 09:31 PM
This is straight from a dictionary of what testament meens.

1. (Law) Law a will setting out the disposition of personal property (esp in the phrase last will and testament)


A last will and testament is a testimony and statement that is given the power of a law. It is not itself a law. Sorry, it is more of a contract. The word "testament" is from the word "testimony."


2. a proof, attestation, or tribute his success was a testament to his skills


This is simply another statement, not a law. IF it is signed and notarized and/or sworn it may have legal power but it is not a LAW.



3. (Christianity / Ecclesiastical Terms)
a. a covenant instituted between God and man, esp the covenant of Moses or that instituted by Christ


A covenant is simply an agreement or contract. A contract is not a law. When you break a contract you cannot be punished you can only be sued in civil court. It is called a "tort." not a law.


b. a copy of either the Old or the New Testament, or of the complete Bible


That is just identifying what people call the Bible. The word testament means testimony, it does not mean Law.


Go back to school and take English.





CowboyGH's photo
Sat 06/12/10 09:33 PM






again Jesus changed NOTHING. Jesus fulfilled, completed, finalized what we call the old testament and gave us the new testament.


Well, if he changed NOTHING, then old laws are still in effect.

So you're talking in circles.


no i'm not, do you know what the words fulfilled, completed, and finalized meens?


Hey its not over yet. The Fat lady has not sang.

You still don't fulfill or complete or finalize a Law.

You pass laws and you enforce laws.
You break laws or obey laws.






Gotta also take into consideration the difference of cultures from now. And laws aren't always like that, there is one law i know for a fact you can't break, denounce, or anything of such. The law of gravity. I used this to show you that the meening of law isn't exactly black and white, there are grey areas.


u r certainly patient,,,,


thank you :)

no photo
Sat 06/12/10 09:34 PM





again Jesus changed NOTHING. Jesus fulfilled, completed, finalized what we call the old testament and gave us the new testament.


Well, if he changed NOTHING, then old laws are still in effect.

So you're talking in circles.


no i'm not, do you know what the words fulfilled, completed, and finalized meens?


Hey its not over yet. The Fat lady has not sang.

You still don't fulfill or complete or finalize a Law.

You pass laws and you enforce laws.
You break laws or obey laws.






Gotta also take into consideration the difference of cultures from now. And laws aren't always like that, there is one law i know for a fact you can't break, denounce, or anything of such. The law of gravity. I used this to show you that the meening of law isn't exactly black and white, there are grey areas.



That is a different kind of law. It has nothing to do with so-called laws of God derived from the Bible or the Bible being law.

Scripture and the Bible are STORIES WRITTEN BY MEN. They are testimonies. They are not laws and certainly not God's laws.


CowboyGH's photo
Sat 06/12/10 09:36 PM

This is straight from a dictionary of what testament meens.

1. (Law) Law a will setting out the disposition of personal property (esp in the phrase last will and testament)


A last will and testament is a testimony and statement that is given the power of a law. It is not itself a law. Sorry, it is more of a contract. The word "testament" is from the word "testimony."


2. a proof, attestation, or tribute his success was a testament to his skills


This is simply another statement, not a law. IF it is signed and notarized and/or sworn it may have legal power but it is not a LAW.



3. (Christianity / Ecclesiastical Terms)
a. a covenant instituted between God and man, esp the covenant of Moses or that instituted by Christ


A covenant is simply an agreement or contract. A contract is not a law. When you break a contract you cannot be punished you can only be sued in civil court. It is called a "tort." not a law.


b. a copy of either the Old or the New Testament, or of the complete Bible


That is just identifying what people call the Bible. The word testament means testimony, it does not mean Law.


Go back to school and take English.







again you have to also keep in mind the differences of culture and the time period. At that time they didn't have so many words that ment roughly the same. They didn't have fine lines and grey areas such as differences of contract or law.

When a contract is made you have to keep to the contract or sustain the punishment for not doing as such, even to this day.

Law is made to have people not do specific things, for if they do they are punished.......

So what exactly was the big difference?

CowboyGH's photo
Sat 06/12/10 09:37 PM






again Jesus changed NOTHING. Jesus fulfilled, completed, finalized what we call the old testament and gave us the new testament.


Well, if he changed NOTHING, then old laws are still in effect.

So you're talking in circles.


no i'm not, do you know what the words fulfilled, completed, and finalized meens?


Hey its not over yet. The Fat lady has not sang.

You still don't fulfill or complete or finalize a Law.

You pass laws and you enforce laws.
You break laws or obey laws.






Gotta also take into consideration the difference of cultures from now. And laws aren't always like that, there is one law i know for a fact you can't break, denounce, or anything of such. The law of gravity. I used this to show you that the meening of law isn't exactly black and white, there are grey areas.



That is a different kind of law. It has nothing to do with so-called laws of God derived from the Bible or the Bible being law.

Scripture and the Bible are STORIES WRITTEN BY MEN. They are testimonies. They are not laws and certainly not God's laws.




if you feel good about viewing it this way, more power to you. I wish nothing but the best for you and wish you prosperity in life. Much love goes to you and yours.

ValentinaSS's photo
Sat 06/12/10 09:42 PM
some religions believe that hell is just being dead, period. no heaven, no consciousness. i dont believe theres a hell, and if i end up there i`m gonna be PISSED OFF

no photo
Sat 06/12/10 09:43 PM







again Jesus changed NOTHING. Jesus fulfilled, completed, finalized what we call the old testament and gave us the new testament.


Well, if he changed NOTHING, then old laws are still in effect.

So you're talking in circles.


no i'm not, do you know what the words fulfilled, completed, and finalized meens?


Hey its not over yet. The Fat lady has not sang.

You still don't fulfill or complete or finalize a Law.

You pass laws and you enforce laws.
You break laws or obey laws.






Gotta also take into consideration the difference of cultures from now. And laws aren't always like that, there is one law i know for a fact you can't break, denounce, or anything of such. The law of gravity. I used this to show you that the meening of law isn't exactly black and white, there are grey areas.



That is a different kind of law. It has nothing to do with so-called laws of God derived from the Bible or the Bible being law.

Scripture and the Bible are STORIES WRITTEN BY MEN. They are testimonies. They are not laws and certainly not God's laws.




if you feel good about viewing it this way, more power to you. I wish nothing but the best for you and wish you prosperity in life. Much love goes to you and yours.


It has nothing to do with "feeling good." I am just trying to help you or educate you as a favor to you, for your own good. You only show your ignorance when you say that the word "testament" equals "Law" even after having read the meaning in a dictionary you still don't understand what you read. Well you are only 20 years old so I understand that you are at an age where you believe you know it all.

You will learn ... maybe. If you ever really start learning how to THINK.






CowboyGH's photo
Sat 06/12/10 09:45 PM

some religions believe that hell is just being dead, period. no heaven, no consciousness. i dont believe theres a hell, and if i end up there i`m gonna be PISSED OFF


you are sorta correct. People never have or will go to hell. Hell is a holding place *cell* for Satan. Hell is destroyed at the end of times and Satan will be cast into the lake of fire. And if one did not receive the gift of heaven they just cease to exist *they die*.

CowboyGH's photo
Sat 06/12/10 09:51 PM








again Jesus changed NOTHING. Jesus fulfilled, completed, finalized what we call the old testament and gave us the new testament.


Well, if he changed NOTHING, then old laws are still in effect.

So you're talking in circles.


no i'm not, do you know what the words fulfilled, completed, and finalized meens?


Hey its not over yet. The Fat lady has not sang.

You still don't fulfill or complete or finalize a Law.

You pass laws and you enforce laws.
You break laws or obey laws.






Gotta also take into consideration the difference of cultures from now. And laws aren't always like that, there is one law i know for a fact you can't break, denounce, or anything of such. The law of gravity. I used this to show you that the meening of law isn't exactly black and white, there are grey areas.



That is a different kind of law. It has nothing to do with so-called laws of God derived from the Bible or the Bible being law.

Scripture and the Bible are STORIES WRITTEN BY MEN. They are testimonies. They are not laws and certainly not God's laws.




if you feel good about viewing it this way, more power to you. I wish nothing but the best for you and wish you prosperity in life. Much love goes to you and yours.


It has nothing to do with "feeling good." I am just trying to help you or educate you as a favor to you, for your own good. You only show your ignorance when you say that the word "testament" equals "Law" even after having read the meaning in a dictionary you still don't understand what you read. Well you are only 20 years old so I understand that you are at an age where you believe you know it all.

You will learn ... maybe. If you ever really start learning how to THINK.



Ok you say you need to educate me? Lets look at this again shall we?

Definition Testament:
. (Christianity / Ecclesiastical Terms)
a. a covenant instituted between God and man, esp the covenant of Moses or that instituted by Christ
b. a copy of either the Old or the New Testament, or of the complete Bible

Notice the first definition shall we? Nottice the COVENANT institued between God and man. Now lets look at the definition of covenant.

Definition Covenant:
covenant
1. A binding agreement; a compact. See Synonyms at bargain.
2. Law
a. A formal sealed agreement or contract.
b. A suit to recover damages for violation of such a contract.
3. In the Bible, God's promise to the human race

Now i want you to nottice the second definition, LAW.

Thank you

no photo
Sat 06/12/10 11:01 PM









again Jesus changed NOTHING. Jesus fulfilled, completed, finalized what we call the old testament and gave us the new testament.


Well, if he changed NOTHING, then old laws are still in effect.

So you're talking in circles.


no i'm not, do you know what the words fulfilled, completed, and finalized meens?


Hey its not over yet. The Fat lady has not sang.

You still don't fulfill or complete or finalize a Law.

You pass laws and you enforce laws.
You break laws or obey laws.






Gotta also take into consideration the difference of cultures from now. And laws aren't always like that, there is one law i know for a fact you can't break, denounce, or anything of such. The law of gravity. I used this to show you that the meening of law isn't exactly black and white, there are grey areas.



That is a different kind of law. It has nothing to do with so-called laws of God derived from the Bible or the Bible being law.

Scripture and the Bible are STORIES WRITTEN BY MEN. They are testimonies. They are not laws and certainly not God's laws.




if you feel good about viewing it this way, more power to you. I wish nothing but the best for you and wish you prosperity in life. Much love goes to you and yours.


It has nothing to do with "feeling good." I am just trying to help you or educate you as a favor to you, for your own good. You only show your ignorance when you say that the word "testament" equals "Law" even after having read the meaning in a dictionary you still don't understand what you read. Well you are only 20 years old so I understand that you are at an age where you believe you know it all.

You will learn ... maybe. If you ever really start learning how to THINK.



Ok you say you need to educate me? Lets look at this again shall we?

Definition Testament:
. (Christianity / Ecclesiastical Terms)
a. a covenant instituted between God and man, esp the covenant of Moses or that instituted by Christ
b. a copy of either the Old or the New Testament, or of the complete Bible

Notice the first definition shall we? Nottice the COVENANT institued between God and man. Now lets look at the definition of covenant.

Definition Covenant:
covenant
1. A binding agreement; a compact. See Synonyms at bargain.
2. Law
a. A formal sealed agreement or contract.
b. A suit to recover damages for violation of such a contract.
3. In the Bible, God's promise to the human race

Now i want you to nottice the second definition, LAW.

Thank you


If it were always LAW then there would be no other definitions.
It is only Law in certain circumstances.
You can't just pick the one definition that you like and apply that to everything called "testament" when there are other meanings of that word.

But if you regard everything in the Bible as "law" that is your perspective and your choice. But you can't sell that to me cause I'm not buying it.

no photo
Sat 06/12/10 11:03 PM

Also since most people agree that we have free will, there can be no "10 commandments." (or what ever number you adhere to)

They have to be "10 suggestions." laugh laugh


Abracadabra's photo
Sun 06/13/10 08:54 AM


Also since most people agree that we have free will, there can be no "10 commandments." (or what ever number you adhere to)

They have to be "10 suggestions." laugh laugh


The mythology as a whole is a fable that is clearly in self-denial. It has the God commanding "Thou Shalt not Kill", and then later it has God himself directing men to mass murder entire villages.

It's a fable that is full of self-conflict and contradictions. It's just a poorly written novel. That fact is that it's truly nothing more than a bunch of non-realited stories that were thrown together in an attempt to try to create a story.

Once a person realizes this it might be easier for them to see why these ancient fables are just that. Fables.

Wulfenstraat's photo
Mon 07/12/10 04:34 PM
Hmm?

s1owhand's photo
Mon 07/12/10 05:54 PM
Also no Hell in the Old Testament...

laugh

CowboyGH's photo
Mon 07/12/10 07:00 PM


Also since most people agree that we have free will, there can be no "10 commandments." (or what ever number you adhere to)

They have to be "10 suggestions." laugh laugh




How does free will rule out the 10 commandments being commandments/laws? The 10 commandments are just purely laws for us to abide by, and we will be judged on our actions through our lives when we pass away on this earth. All free will means is that we have the ability to follow the laws or not. but we have to take the outcome of both options, cause and effect.

KerryO's photo
Mon 07/12/10 07:14 PM


The mythology as a whole is a fable that is clearly in self-denial. It has the God commanding "Thou Shalt not Kill", and then later it has God himself directing men to mass murder entire villages.

It's a fable that is full of self-conflict and contradictions. It's just a poorly written novel. That fact is that it's truly nothing more than a bunch of non-realited stories that were thrown together in an attempt to try to create a story.

Once a person realizes this it might be easier for them to see why these ancient fables are just that. Fables.



I've often thought the O.T. was more about tribalism, pure and simple, and the N.T. about rehabilitating the Abrahamic excesses, so as to put a more benign face on them that made you forget all the killing, fire and brimstone.

While it will always be a grave miscarriage of morals to kill someone of one's own tribe, history has shown us that religion turns a blind eye to killing of other tribes, often giving the pat excuse that said other tribes have offended the tribe's God. And, therefore, asked for it.

What is harder to keep people in denial about, however, is infanticide. Just about all 'tribes' instinctively know that that is not civilized behaviour. Hence, the need to put a better face on the hoary old Warhorse.

It begs the question, then: where was Jesus when all this O.T. slaughter was going on and what did he think about it? Because according the N.T., he told people that they should prefer to drown themselves rather than to kill children.

-Kerry O.

Abracadabra's photo
Mon 07/12/10 07:59 PM

Because according the N.T., he told people that they should prefer to drown themselves rather than to kill children.

-Kerry O.


Maybe he was still feeling guilty about the Great Flood? He must have killed a lot of babies in that one. Assuming that Jesus and the Father are "one".

I tend to believe that Jesus was a Mahayana Buddhist bodhisattva. He probably did read the story about the great flood though and was even moved to feelings of depression from having just read it.

Whoever wrote the story even felt guilty enough about having written it to offer up a Rainbow of regret at the end of the story. flowerforyou

s1owhand's photo
Mon 07/12/10 08:22 PM
Disclaimer: No ACTUAL animals were harmed in the making of this parable.

laugh

Wulfenstraat's photo
Thu 07/15/10 08:19 AM
I like the cut of your jib.

laughandlove4ever's photo
Fri 07/16/10 10:15 PM
I would like to share some thoughts on this.

When we look at civic government, we understand that there is typically a justice system that holds people accountable to their actions, and certain punishments are administered to fit the specific crime. Life sentences in jail as well as the death penalty are a part of that system.

With this being the case, I don't find it unreasonable or illogical at all for "Hell" to exist.

Many people are quick to point to the love of God, using this as their reason why hell could or should not exist. But what many don't understand is that God is not only a loving God, but he is also just. He is both.

The good news is that the justice-side of God has been satisfied through the sacrificial death of Jesus Christ on our behalf. We have all broken God's law, but Jesus paid our fine by receiving the punishment we deserved for our sin. The cross is where the love of God and the justice of God meet.

"Enter through the narrow gate, for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. For small is the gate and narrow is the way that leads to life, and only a few find it." Matthew 7:13-14, Jesus speaking

Jesus himself said in John 14:6, "I am the way, the truth and the life; no one comes to the Father except through me."

My point is this: that apart from the cross, there is no "love of God" for anyone to ultimately look forward to, but only the justice and wrath of God against sin. The good news is that no one needs to stand before God on that day and be judged by His holy law, being sent to hell as a lawbreaker; rather, we can receive Christ now by faith, who was judged on our behalf so we could escape God's judgment. That's how much God loves you and me.

Of course my source is the Bible, and I don't apologize for that. Too many people are trying to play God, relying on themselves as the source of truth, creating a God after their own imagination to suit themselves. But God has made his plan known..... that regardless of race, gender, socio-economic status, past experiences, etc... we can all be reconciled to God through faith in the death & resurrection of His son.