Topic: Teacher fired for having premarital sex
s1owhand's photo
Tue 06/15/10 05:06 AM
LONG LIVE FORNICATION! drinker

laugh

s1owhand's photo
Tue 06/15/10 05:16 AM
refreshing change from "promotion traced to pre-marital sex"

HEH!

:banana:

willing2's photo
Tue 06/15/10 08:41 AM

LONG LIVE FORNICATION! drinker

laugh

drinker
I hope the rest of my fornicatin' days are long and hard!!:banana:

Seakolony's photo
Tue 06/15/10 08:54 AM

It had nothing to do with a student.

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/37683770/ns/today-today_people/?GT1=43001

Teacher fired for premarital sex
Jarretta Hamilton taught fourth grade at private Christian school
By Mike Celizic
TODAYshow.com contributor
updated 12:01 p.m. ET, Mon., June 14, 2010

The couple sat close together with her right hand clasped in his left hand and her left arm cradling the 8-month-old daughter whose conception cost the woman her job.

The couple’s sin, according to her former employer, Southland Christian School in St. Cloud, Fla., is fornication — having sex before they got married.

Jarretta Hamilton and her husband of 16 months, Samuel Treftz, told TODAY’s Ann Curry Monday that the termination violated federal anti-discrimination laws. In addition, they allege in a pending lawsuit, the school’s principal, Jon Ennis, invaded Hamilton’s privacy by telling other teachers and the parents of her students the exact reason she was fired.

“When they let me go, they told the entire staff in a staff meeting that I had been fired and the reason why they let me go. And then they called all of my parents to my fourth-grade students and told them as well,” Hamilton said.

Ennis declined to appear on TODAY, citing a lawsuit filed by Hamilton against the school. But in a prerecorded report filed by NBC News’ Mike Taibbi, Ennis was asked if he stood by the firing. “Yes, absolutely,” he replied.

‘Didn’t know it would cost me my job’
Hamilton said her problems are all the result of her being honest. A widow with five children from her first marriage, she had gotten work as a teacher at Southland Christian School in January 2008. Meanwhile, she also met Treftz, and they planned a Feb. 20, 2009, wedding.

Three weeks before the wedding, she conceived her daughter, Sarah.

In April 2009, Hamilton and Treftz went together to Ennis and told him she would be taking maternity leave in the fall. She says Ennis first complained that it was difficult for the school to cover women on maternity leave.

“I was only requesting a standard six weeks maternity leave, and as the conversation progressed, he said, ‘I’m just trying to do the math here. When did you get married?’ ” Hamilton told Curry.

“I said Feb. 20,” she continued. “He said, ‘Well, did you conceive prior to marriage?’ I answered and I told him, ‘Yes.’ ”

Hamilton said she answered partly because she was so surprised by the very personal question.

“I was absolutely shocked. It came out of nowhere. I was honest about it. I didn’t know it would cost me my job,” she said.

Fired for ‘fornication’
A week later, she was notified that she was terminated. In a letter sent to her attorney, Edward Gay, last July, the school’s administrator, Julie Ennis, wrote:

“Jarretta was asked not to return because of a moral issue that was disregarded, namely fornication, sex outside of marriage. The employment application, which she filled out, clearly states that as a leader before our students we require all teachers to maintain and communicate the values and purpose of our school.”

That’s a long way from saying teachers are prohibited from having premarital sex, the couple argue.

“If there was a contract in place that had a specific morality clause, I think that would make a difference,” Treftz said.

Hamilton agreed, adding, “At least people would know what they’re getting into. I didn’t know that they were going to judge so harshly; that this was the way they felt about premarital sex. I wasn’t clear what their stance was on certain issues.”

Gay, who joined the couple for the TODAY interview, said that pastors and clergy have the right to make moral decisions regarding church personnel, but this case is different because Hamilton was a teacher.

“The courts have consistently ruled that a private school is just like any other employer. As long as there’s more than 50 employees, they are governed by the law regarding discrimination,” Gay said. “The teachers are serving a secular purpose, and therefore they are governed by federal laws of discrimination.”

In the letter explaining the termination to Gay, Julie Ennis ended by asking Hamilton to give up the lawsuit.

“We request that Jarretta withdraw her complaint and consider the testimony of the Lord,” the letter concludes.

She may not have a leg to stand on because religious organization under seperation of Church and State institutes its own rules and policies. They may not be held to normal business practice laws as a religious organization.

no photo
Tue 06/15/10 11:19 AM

Dosent almost everyone have premarital sex?


I just saw a quote from George Burns (paraphrased) - "Its not premarital sex if you have no intention of marrying."

no photo
Tue 06/15/10 11:21 AM
Would it have been more acceptable had it been EXTRAMARITAL sex ... ?

no photo
Tue 06/15/10 11:26 AM


I just become a bit taken aback by those who DEMAND that public school is no place for christian values,, but dont want those values implemented in Christian schools either......( I dont think this refers to you,,btw)


Which Christian values do you speak of?

I know of no school that forbids students from abstaining from lying, or forbids students from abstaining from stealing, or...

...really, I know of no school that forbids students from practicing any of the ten commandments, or which forbid students from silently praying.


Too many Christians confuse (a) the deliberate rejection of enforced or systemized Christian practices with (b) individuals being prohibited from those same practices.


msharmony's photo
Tue 06/15/10 03:06 PM



I just become a bit taken aback by those who DEMAND that public school is no place for christian values,, but dont want those values implemented in Christian schools either......( I dont think this refers to you,,btw)


Which Christian values do you speak of?

I know of no school that forbids students from abstaining from lying, or forbids students from abstaining from stealing, or...

...really, I know of no school that forbids students from practicing any of the ten commandments, or which forbid students from silently praying.


Too many Christians confuse (a) the deliberate rejection of enforced or systemized Christian practices with (b) individuals being prohibited from those same practices.





tell that to the boy who was expelled for wearing rosary beads,,,schools do FORBID certain religious expressions,, and religious based schools are someplace where the religious can feel more FREEDOM to do so , and sometimes, where REFUSING to do so can lead to their elimination just like refusing to follow the rules which forbid religious expression in public schools can lead to elimination,,,

its an alternative environment which welcomes those things and values that public schools denounce and forbid

yellowrose10's photo
Tue 06/15/10 03:37 PM
As I said in another thread. If it was a public school, then that is different since the tax payers pay for it and they come in all kinds of beliefs.

Parents have a choice (like this teacher did) to send their kids to a private school. They could have sent them to public or home schooled. The teacher in this case made a choice.

Whether others agree with the school's belief, they are within their right, as a privately owned school. Just as the parents and teachers are within their rights to send their kids their or to teach their. JMO

no photo
Tue 06/15/10 04:47 PM




I just become a bit taken aback by those who DEMAND that public school is no place for christian values,, but dont want those values implemented in Christian schools either......( I dont think this refers to you,,btw)


Which Christian values do you speak of?

I know of no school that forbids students from abstaining from lying, or forbids students from abstaining from stealing, or...

...really, I know of no school that forbids students from practicing any of the ten commandments, or which forbid students from silently praying.


Too many Christians confuse (a) the deliberate rejection of enforced or systemized Christian practices with (b) individuals being prohibited from those same practices.





tell that to the boy who was expelled for wearing rosary beads,,,schools do FORBID certain religious expressions,, and religious based schools are someplace where the religious can feel more FREEDOM to do so , and sometimes, where REFUSING to do so can lead to their elimination just like refusing to follow the rules which forbid religious expression in public schools can lead to elimination,,,

its an alternative environment which welcomes those things and values that public schools denounce and forbid


Ms Harmony - are you saying that the wearing of rosary beads is a christian value?

Or are you willing to step back from your earlier claim about schools prohibiting christian values?

If you are going to claim that people insist that school is no place for Christian values, I'd like to know exactly which values are discouraged at the schools. Based on your past posts, I actually expect you and I might agree on which values are appropriate for a school environment.




msharmony's photo
Tue 06/15/10 07:25 PM





I just become a bit taken aback by those who DEMAND that public school is no place for christian values,, but dont want those values implemented in Christian schools either......( I dont think this refers to you,,btw)


Which Christian values do you speak of?

I know of no school that forbids students from abstaining from lying, or forbids students from abstaining from stealing, or...

...really, I know of no school that forbids students from practicing any of the ten commandments, or which forbid students from silently praying.


Too many Christians confuse (a) the deliberate rejection of enforced or systemized Christian practices with (b) individuals being prohibited from those same practices.





tell that to the boy who was expelled for wearing rosary beads,,,schools do FORBID certain religious expressions,, and religious based schools are someplace where the religious can feel more FREEDOM to do so , and sometimes, where REFUSING to do so can lead to their elimination just like refusing to follow the rules which forbid religious expression in public schools can lead to elimination,,,

its an alternative environment which welcomes those things and values that public schools denounce and forbid


Ms Harmony - are you saying that the wearing of rosary beads is a christian value?

Or are you willing to step back from your earlier claim about schools prohibiting christian values?

If you are going to claim that people insist that school is no place for Christian values, I'd like to know exactly which values are discouraged at the schools. Based on your past posts, I actually expect you and I might agree on which values are appropriate for a school environment.




I the rosary beads is an expression of religion,,,not a value, I did not mean to imply otherwise,,,

Thomas3474's photo
Tue 06/15/10 07:31 PM

It had nothing to do with a student.

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/37683770/ns/today-today_people/?GT1=43001

Teacher fired for premarital sex
Jarretta Hamilton taught fourth grade at private Christian school
By Mike Celizic
TODAYshow.com contributor
updated 12:01 p.m. ET, Mon., June 14, 2010

The couple sat close together with her right hand clasped in his left hand and her left arm cradling the 8-month-old daughter whose conception cost the woman her job.

The couple’s sin, according to her former employer, Southland Christian School in St. Cloud, Fla., is fornication — having sex before they got married.

Jarretta Hamilton and her husband of 16 months, Samuel Treftz, told TODAY’s Ann Curry Monday that the termination violated federal anti-discrimination laws. In addition, they allege in a pending lawsuit, the school’s principal, Jon Ennis, invaded Hamilton’s privacy by telling other teachers and the parents of her students the exact reason she was fired.

“When they let me go, they told the entire staff in a staff meeting that I had been fired and the reason why they let me go. And then they called all of my parents to my fourth-grade students and told them as well,” Hamilton said.

Ennis declined to appear on TODAY, citing a lawsuit filed by Hamilton against the school. But in a prerecorded report filed by NBC News’ Mike Taibbi, Ennis was asked if he stood by the firing. “Yes, absolutely,” he replied.

‘Didn’t know it would cost me my job’
Hamilton said her problems are all the result of her being honest. A widow with five children from her first marriage, she had gotten work as a teacher at Southland Christian School in January 2008. Meanwhile, she also met Treftz, and they planned a Feb. 20, 2009, wedding.

Three weeks before the wedding, she conceived her daughter, Sarah.

In April 2009, Hamilton and Treftz went together to Ennis and told him she would be taking maternity leave in the fall. She says Ennis first complained that it was difficult for the school to cover women on maternity leave.

“I was only requesting a standard six weeks maternity leave, and as the conversation progressed, he said, ‘I’m just trying to do the math here. When did you get married?’ ” Hamilton told Curry.

“I said Feb. 20,” she continued. “He said, ‘Well, did you conceive prior to marriage?’ I answered and I told him, ‘Yes.’ ”

Hamilton said she answered partly because she was so surprised by the very personal question.

“I was absolutely shocked. It came out of nowhere. I was honest about it. I didn’t know it would cost me my job,” she said.

Fired for ‘fornication’
A week later, she was notified that she was terminated. In a letter sent to her attorney, Edward Gay, last July, the school’s administrator, Julie Ennis, wrote:

“Jarretta was asked not to return because of a moral issue that was disregarded, namely fornication, sex outside of marriage. The employment application, which she filled out, clearly states that as a leader before our students we require all teachers to maintain and communicate the values and purpose of our school.”

That’s a long way from saying teachers are prohibited from having premarital sex, the couple argue.

“If there was a contract in place that had a specific morality clause, I think that would make a difference,” Treftz said.

Hamilton agreed, adding, “At least people would know what they’re getting into. I didn’t know that they were going to judge so harshly; that this was the way they felt about premarital sex. I wasn’t clear what their stance was on certain issues.”

Gay, who joined the couple for the TODAY interview, said that pastors and clergy have the right to make moral decisions regarding church personnel, but this case is different because Hamilton was a teacher.

“The courts have consistently ruled that a private school is just like any other employer. As long as there’s more than 50 employees, they are governed by the law regarding discrimination,” Gay said. “The teachers are serving a secular purpose, and therefore they are governed by federal laws of discrimination.”

In the letter explaining the termination to Gay, Julie Ennis ended by asking Hamilton to give up the lawsuit.

“We request that Jarretta withdraw her complaint and consider the testimony of the Lord,” the letter concludes.



A Christian school isn't much different than a Christian church.Both the teachers and pastors are supposed to be role models for those who are following what they are teaching.I wouldn't want to go to a church where I see the pastor coming out of a strip club.I also don't think it would be right if I saw the teacher in a dance club drunk off her butt,bumping and grinding with every guy she sees.

Christian schools obviously have the highest standards for teachers in any schools in America.Those standards include living a life a biblically correct as possible.Much like a pastor in a church,you can't preach one thing and then turn around and do what you just told a hundred kids not to be doing.It's sets a very bad example and only makes you look like a hypocrite.

eklectek's photo
Tue 06/15/10 07:32 PM
I like this guy. ata boy thomas!

Redykeulous's photo
Tue 06/15/10 08:25 PM
How does a religious(school or other approved religious organization) LIST their beliefs and how do they determine what punishment a transgression deserves?

For example: Are all members of the congregation (religious organization) well aware of this list and what punishment they might expect from thier congregation for a violation of their moral code?

Consider the dismissed teacher, She has been humiliated in public, lost a professional position in a bad economy, and we can only wonder how HER church will receive her and her family, after this display.

BUT WHERE IS THE TEST? Where is the proof that punishment of the moral code, so harshly imposed upon this teacher and her family, demonstrated to be just as strictly adhered to among all the other members of the various congregations of that belief?

What other SIMILAR punishment do congregations impose upon their members when the list of moral codes is violated by other individuals?

Other questions come to mind – Is the list of moral offenses arranged in a hierarchy, some offences worse than others? Does the moral code include a specific suggested punishment for those who have offended? Are violations to various morals treated the same by each of the congregational members and congregation affiliates.

For example, If a married congretional member is outed for adultary, are they forced to give up their job and make a PUBLIC announcement, including calling other members and explaining their sin?

The thing is - any gourp can claim a religious exemption for any number of reasons, but if discrimination, followed by public punishment, of this magnitude is going to be involved – then there should be a heck of a lot more responsibility placed on the religious organization to PROVE their beliefs are known throughout their congregations and that they are similarly followed in practice throughout thier memberships.

Otherwise they are practicing discrimination and that is against Federal law. They cannot hold to a moral code which is part of their religion and only practice it when it suits them - that is discrimination.



no photo
Tue 06/15/10 08:36 PM

I the rosary beads is an expression of religion,,,not a value, I did not mean to imply otherwise,,,


Then it looks I misunderstood you, three or four posts back. I'm sorry if I was unpleasant. I've listened to a lot of Christian talk radio in my life, and I've become very frustrated with the lies and gross exaggerations that I've heard being propagated in the Christian community - used to paint a picture of how the secularists are 'out to get' Christians on 'separation of Church and state' issues. So I'm a bit fired up and ready to debate anytime it sounds like an intelligent person might be overstating the case. Thank you for politely discussing this with me.

Redykeulous's photo
Tue 06/15/10 08:36 PM




I just become a bit taken aback by those who DEMAND that public school is no place for christian values,, but dont want those values implemented in Christian schools either......( I dont think this refers to you,,btw)


Which Christian values do you speak of?

I know of no school that forbids students from abstaining from lying, or forbids students from abstaining from stealing, or...

...really, I know of no school that forbids students from practicing any of the ten commandments, or which forbid students from silently praying.


Too many Christians confuse (a) the deliberate rejection of enforced or systemized Christian practices with (b) individuals being prohibited from those same practices.





tell that to the boy who was expelled for wearing rosary beads,,,schools do FORBID certain religious expressions,, and religious based schools are someplace where the religious can feel more FREEDOM to do so , and sometimes, where REFUSING to do so can lead to their elimination just like refusing to follow the rules which forbid religious expression in public schools can lead to elimination,,,

its an alternative environment which welcomes those things and values that public schools denounce and forbid


A lesbian teenager was banned from her school prom and was subsequently conspired against by ADULTS based on a VALUE which was neither hers nor was it displayed - it was a religious belief.

Personally I don't believe we need to allow outward signs of religious beliefs in public schools, the VALUES that are unseen do enough harm and outward physical signs of a belief would only instill greater group division among the students. Learning to get along with others without falling in line behind a religious symbol is difficult enough.

willing2's photo
Tue 06/15/10 08:37 PM
Edited by willing2 on Tue 06/15/10 08:38 PM

A Christian school isn't much different than a Christian church.Both the teachers and pastors are supposed to be role models for those who are following what they are teaching.I wouldn't want to go to a church where I see the pastor coming out of a strip club.I also don't think it would be right if I saw the teacher in a dance club drunk off her butt,bumping and grinding with every guy she sees.

Christian schools obviously have the highest standards for teachers in any schools in America.Those standards include living a life a biblically correct as possible.Much like a pastor in a church,you can't preach one thing and then turn around and do what you just told a hundred kids not to be doing.It's sets a very bad example and only makes you look like a hypocrite.



She was living the part.

The part of the hooker Jesus met in his journeys.shocked

msharmony's photo
Wed 06/16/10 11:24 AM





I just become a bit taken aback by those who DEMAND that public school is no place for christian values,, but dont want those values implemented in Christian schools either......( I dont think this refers to you,,btw)


Which Christian values do you speak of?

I know of no school that forbids students from abstaining from lying, or forbids students from abstaining from stealing, or...

...really, I know of no school that forbids students from practicing any of the ten commandments, or which forbid students from silently praying.


Too many Christians confuse (a) the deliberate rejection of enforced or systemized Christian practices with (b) individuals being prohibited from those same practices.





tell that to the boy who was expelled for wearing rosary beads,,,schools do FORBID certain religious expressions,, and religious based schools are someplace where the religious can feel more FREEDOM to do so , and sometimes, where REFUSING to do so can lead to their elimination just like refusing to follow the rules which forbid religious expression in public schools can lead to elimination,,,

its an alternative environment which welcomes those things and values that public schools denounce and forbid


A lesbian teenager was banned from her school prom and was subsequently conspired against by ADULTS based on a VALUE which was neither hers nor was it displayed - it was a religious belief.

Personally I don't believe we need to allow outward signs of religious beliefs in public schools, the VALUES that are unseen do enough harm and outward physical signs of a belief would only instill greater group division among the students. Learning to get along with others without falling in line behind a religious symbol is difficult enough.


but the law backed her up in that case

and that was my point,, if MAINSTREAM or PUBLIC schools are not going to enforce certain living principles(and I dont believe they should have to) that parents are trying to instill in their children, their should be the option for PRIVATE organizations to assimilate for the purpose of reinforcing those principles that the Mainstream does not,,,,if there is not that option, it is a form of discrimination against a religion which is also discrimination,,,

s1owhand's photo
Wed 06/16/10 11:58 AM
probably some of the school board touch themselves when no one is looking!

surprised

laugh

no photo
Wed 06/16/10 12:05 PM

probably some of the school board touch themselves when no one is looking!


laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh

One of the great ironies of having organizations enforce 'sexual purity' related 'values'....there are almost always hypocrites in the mix, for something so basic, biological.