This is a question for those who ascribe to the beliefs that god, in whatever form you believe god to be present in, possesses the knowledge of everything that will ever happen and also that this god has designated a hell.

If you don't believe in that... well, you can't really give me an answer to this question.

But, assuming anybody believes those two things, would that designate that god specifically created certain souls or entities or whatever to be destined to hell?

Meaning, regardless of free will, if god knows everything that will happen, he knows who will go to hell. Thus, he is creating beings to be punished for eternity.

Does anybody believe god knows everything that will happen and also in hell?

God doesn't look at our actions ahead of time, for if he did there would be no such thing as free will, and judgement day would be pointless. And other then that NO ONE will ever go to hell. After you pass away you either recieve the gift of heaven/eternal life or you cease to exist. Hell was created for Satan and his minions, was NOT made for man. And at the end of times hell is destroyed and Satan and his minions are cast into the lake of fire.

Reason our actions aren't looked at ahead of time, because that would be more of a destiny. But there is absolutely no way to know what we'll do through our lives before it happens because what we do or don't do isn't written in stone because of the free will we have.

..Now ifn there was this god just because he knows what will happen doesnt mean he caused it to happen..or made you make the choices that you made ..he just knows that you will make them....

We know that can't be true because when god decides it is your time and he calls you, you are done, dude.

Also, god claims to know what is going to happen and he "allows" it which means their is no free will. There is "allowance" and "non allowance"

God never says in the bible" Those damn humans, you just never know what the heck those critters are going to do from one minute to the next" Or "why did i make that devil to torture those humans that I love so much"

...

Well... It doesn't seem as if anyone actually believes in an all-knowing god and hell, as far as this discussion goes.

To respond briefly to what you said, Cowboy, what I don't understand is the idea of god doing anything "ahead of time". I don't claim to know exactly what you believe but it would appear that in your beliefs god should exists outside of time, having created it.


What interests me is that you said when one dies there is either non-existence or eternal life. If somebody didn't want eternal life do you think that could qualify equally as a gift?

God tortures no one. Things that happen in life good or bad is through our actions on earth.... using our free will...... cause and effect.

that would exclude me...

Cherry picking from the buy bull, again.

The idea of an intervening God who supposedly knows what's going to happen next is an impossible oxymoron.

That's the problem right there. You can't have a God who supposedly knows how everything is going to unfold, drowning out sinners one minute, and then sending his only begotten son to save them then next.

The biblical story of God is simply an oxymoronic story. Period.

The reason being that this God supposedly intervenes to try to keep fixing things up. But that conflicts with the idea that he knew before hand how it would all unfold.

So the fable is just a case of poor novel writing and nothing more.

In fact, to be more precise, the Bible is actually just a poor selection of random stories that clearly conflict with each other.

It's not even a single novel to begin with.

Awww, shucks, I don't want this to become an indictment of Christianity. A lot of things tend to descend into that. There was really just the one particular point that I wanted illustrated by those that believe that god has knowledge of all events that will ever occur.

Seeing as how nobody apparently believes this... the discussion has died.

Go, Endcat, go!

that would mean that God is not all-knowing and therefore not omniscient or omnipotent ...and frankly not even a God

2 PETER 2:4-12


For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell,a putting them into gloomy dungeonsb to be held for judgment; 5if he did not spare the ancient world when he brought the flood on its ungodly people, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others; 6if he condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by burning them to ashes, and made them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly; 7and if he rescued Lot, a righteous man, who was distressed by the filthy lives of lawless men 8(for that righteous man, living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul by the lawless deeds he saw and heard)— 9if this is so, then the Lord knows how to rescue godly men from trials and to hold the unrighteous for the day of judgment, while continuing their punishment.c 10This is especially true of those who follow the corrupt desire of the sinful natured and despise authority.

Bold and arrogant, these men are not afraid to slander celestial beings; 11yet even angels, although they are stronger and more powerful, do not bring slanderous accusations against such beings in the presence of the Lord. 12But these men blaspheme in matters they do not understand. They are like brute beasts, creatures of instinct, born only to be caught and destroyed, and like beasts they too will perish.

Okay...

So what's your interpretation on that and whole matter at hand?

"12But these men blaspheme in matters they do not understand. They are like brute beasts, creatures of instinct, born only to be caught and destroyed, and like beasts they too will perish."

How do you feel about the idea that beings are created only to eventually suffer and be destroyed? This piece, to me, at least represents that god maintains the foreknowledge to push existing events in favor of his bidding, which is still to say that if he had not created anything then there would be no need for a hell or judgment whatsoever.

What are your thoughts on this?

ROMANS 9:14-24


14What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! 15For he says to Moses,

“I will have mercy on whom I have mercy,

and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”f

16It does not, therefore, depend on man’s desire or effort, but on God’s mercy. 17For the Scripture says to Pharaoh: “I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.”g 18Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.

19One of you will say to me: “Then why does God still blame us? For who resists his will?” 20But who are you, O man, to talk back to God? “Shall what is formed say to him who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’”h 21Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for noble purposes and some for common use?

22What if God, choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction? 23What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory— 24even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles?

Neat verses... but do you have any thoughts on this?

6“This is what the Lord says—

Israel’s King and Redeemer, the Lord Almighty:

I am the first and I am the last;

apart from me there is no God.

7Who then is like me? Let him proclaim it.

Let him declare and lay out before me

what has happened since I established my ancient people,
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and what is yet to come—

yes, let him foretell what will come.

8Do not tremble, do not be afraid.

Did I not proclaim this and foretell it long ago?
***************************************************************************

You are my witnesses. Is there any God besides me?

No, there is no other Rock; I know not one.”

This almost sounds as if god in his infinite knowledge realized that he had to make souls to take his wrath out on. If he didn't have people to punish, the rest would take him for granted. God's "love" is based on fear, a "love me or else" thing. Sounds like the beginning of an abusive relationship to me.