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Topic: Judge Overturns Nebraska Ban on Mutilating Flags
KerryO's photo
Sun 01/09/11 03:00 PM
Edited by KerryO on Sun 01/09/11 03:02 PM

It was against the law until 1989 to desecrate Old Glory.

It was made legal due to the efforts of only a few Americans and a case brought before the SC. It was not put to a vote by the majority. It was made legal on a technicality of language.



I hardly think Antonin Scalia is one of those 'commie pinkos' the uniformed foam at the mouth about as having 'legislated from the bench'.

If you'd have done due diligence, you would have found that he voted WITH the majority in BOTH decisions that struck down laws prohibiting flag desecration. Those cases are Texas v. Johnson and United States v Eichman.

In Texas v. Johnson, Justice Brennan, writing for the majority to strike down the statues said this:



"We do not consecrate the flag by punishing its desecration, for in doing so we dilute the freedom that this cherished emblem represents."




_


In fact an Amendment to the US Constitution has been proposed and a majority did support it.

On June 22, 2005, a flag burning amendment was passed by the House with the needed two-thirds majority. On June 27, 2006, the most recent attempt to pass a ban on flag burning was rejected by the Senate in a close vote of 66 in favor, 34 opposed, one vote short of the two-thirds majority needed to send the amendment to be voted on by the states.




Here again, I doubt that anyone, much less an avowed Democrat as yourself, would accuse Mitch McConnell (who if memory serves correctly, is the Senior Senator from your home state) of being one of THOSE PEOPLE for voting against it.

You're also forgetting that 3/4 of the states' legislatures would have to ratify it, so it was not as close as you're claiming here.

Another quote from Brennan:



The principal function of free speech under our system of government is to invite dispute; it may indeed best serve its high purpose when it induces condition of unrest, creates dissatisfaction with conditions as they are, or even stirs people to anger."



And lastly, a quote from a Viet Nam war veteran, so that you can't use the argument that my having never been in the military negates any possible understanding of the issues on my part:



“ Those who would burn the flag destroy the symbol of freedom, but amending the Constitution would destroy part of freedom itself."
—Vietnam veteran Richard Savage



-Kerry O.

Fanta46's photo
Sun 01/09/11 03:45 PM
Edited by Fanta46 on Sun 01/09/11 03:47 PM
First, I don't idolize others as you. Any man can be wrong and Scalia is not my favorite SC Justice.

Second,

2/3! and I'm not from KY.
As the article stated and most 7 grade civic students know that.

Third, That is the opinion of only one vet. I can point you to a lot more than that who still think Bush was right in invading Iran.



Question;

Why would you want to burn the flag?
Burning Cloth means nothing, right?
If your wish is to inflame the passions of other more respectful and appreciative people, then you are in fact inciting violence.
If you want to burn cloth burn your drawers.

KerryO's photo
Sun 01/09/11 04:30 PM

First, I don't idolize others as you. Any man can be wrong and Scalia is not my favorite SC Justice.

Second,

2/3!



Wrong. Read it again-- I said to have the amendment RATIFIED required 3/4 of the state legislatures voting to affirm. Here is the text of Article 5, proving that your facts are faulty:



The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, or, on the Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments, which, in either Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as Part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States or by Conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other Mode of Ratification may be proposed by the Congress; Provided that no Amendment which may be made prior to the Year One thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any Manner affect the first and fourth Clauses in the Ninth Section of the first Article; and that no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of its equal Suffrage in the Senate.




_



As the article stated and most 7 grade civic students know that.



You apparently didn't.



Third, That is the opinion of only one vet. I can point you to a lot more than that who still think Bush was right in invading Iran.



I never said he was the only vet who felt that way. Sure, I haven't talked to ALL of them, but I doubt that you have either.




Question;

Why would you want to burn the flag?
Burning Cloth means nothing, right?
If your wish is to inflame the passions of other more respectful and appreciative people, then you are in fact inciting violence.
If you want to burn cloth burn your drawers.


Now who's being disrespectful? I've only made the same arguments that such august company as Supreme Court justices have made-- jurists who, btw, expounded logically on why these laws and an amendment would be a very BAD idea. You disagree? Fine. But don't think for a minute that your little snipes are anything but snarky comments that would be ruled OUT OF ORDER in a court of law.

That is why you guys usually lose in court. You argue on pure emotion and, as the error in your understanding of the ratification requirements points out, you often get your facts WRONG.

More often, the rhetoric resembles this nursery rhyme:



I do not like thee, Doctor Fell,
The reason why I cannot tell;
But this I know, and know full well,
I do not like thee, Doctor Fell.




-Kerry O.

Fanta46's photo
Mon 01/10/11 02:10 PM
Did you know that Laughner's favorite Video is of a man wearing a smiley face walking towards an American Flag standing in the desert and lighting it on fire?


msharmony's photo
Mon 01/10/11 03:27 PM
interesting


I cant think of what my favorite video would even be,,lol


maybe Thriller,,,

Fanta46's photo
Mon 01/10/11 05:22 PM
Edited by Fanta46 on Mon 01/10/11 05:26 PM
2/3 of both houses to propose amendment
3/4 tof State legislators to adopt the amendment. KerryO

The article,
The one vote short was in the Senate.
The House had already passed it.

Fanta46's photo
Mon 01/10/11 05:28 PM
Edited by Fanta46 on Mon 01/10/11 05:28 PM
For a State gov to join one side or the other,(pro or con), takes only a majority.

Lpdon's photo
Tue 01/11/11 07:30 PM

First, I don't idolize others as you. Any man can be wrong and Scalia is not my favorite SC Justice.

Second,

2/3! and I'm not from KY.
As the article stated and most 7 grade civic students know that.

Third, That is the opinion of only one vet. I can point you to a lot more than that who still think Bush was right in invading Iran.



Question;

Why would you want to burn the flag?
Burning Cloth means nothing, right?
If your wish is to inflame the passions of other more respectful and appreciative people, then you are in fact inciting violence.
If you want to burn cloth burn your drawers.


Ummmm, President Bush didn't invade Iran. laugh

Dragoness's photo
Tue 01/11/11 07:45 PM
There is no piece of cloth or book that is worth a human life.

And those who believe so have been brainwashed into false idolization.

AdventureBegins's photo
Wed 01/12/11 09:15 PM
"We do not consecrate the flag by punishing its desecration, for in doing so we dilute the freedom that this cherished emblem represents."

This says it very well...

Short sweet and to the point.

Lpdon's photo
Wed 01/12/11 10:09 PM

There is no piece of cloth or book that is worth a human life.

And those who believe so have been brainwashed into false idolization.


whoa

KerryO's photo
Thu 01/13/11 03:18 PM

2/3 of both houses to propose amendment
3/4 tof State legislators to adopt the amendment. KerryO

The article,
The one vote short was in the Senate.
The House had already passed it.


Look, I quoted Article 5 of the Constitution word-for-word to show that you made a mistake. You further compounded your mistake by insulting my intelligence with the '5th grade Civics' left-handed slam.

You dropped the ball. Admit it and apologize instead of spinning this into Patriots vs. The Evil Legal System and those who support it.

The amendment was D.O.A. Get over it. The Founding Fathers knew that these instances would arise ad nauseum-- that's why they made it so damnably hard to amendment the Constitution capriciously. They knew that political grandstanding would be as perennial as the grass and made the mechanism to separate the legal grain from the political chaff as foolproof as possible.


-Kerry O.

Lpdon's photo
Thu 01/13/11 09:50 PM
drinker

Fanta46's photo
Fri 01/14/11 06:40 PM
Edited by Fanta46 on Fri 01/14/11 06:41 PM


2/3 of both houses to propose amendment
3/4 tof State legislators to adopt the amendment. KerryO

The article,
The one vote short was in the Senate.
The House had already passed it.


Look, I quoted Article 5 of the Constitution word-for-word to show that you made a mistake. You further compounded your mistake by insulting my intelligence with the '5th grade Civics' left-handed slam.

You dropped the ball. Admit it and apologize instead of spinning this into Patriots vs. The Evil Legal System and those who support it.

The amendment was D.O.A. Get over it. The Founding Fathers knew that these instances would arise ad nauseum-- that's why they made it so damnably hard to amendment the Constitution capriciously. They knew that political grandstanding would be as perennial as the grass and made the mechanism to separate the legal grain from the political chaff as foolproof as possible.


-Kerry O.



I did not make a mistake.
It would have taken only one more vote in the senate to send the bill to the states for a 3/4 approval. It was very close.
Whether or not 3/4 of the states would have voted to ratify is a different question.

A question that only 1 more vote would have answered as it only takes 2/3 of each house to put the choice before the individual states.


Fanta46's photo
Fri 01/14/11 06:51 PM


well congrats to you...true American
what do your kids do during all this campaign time,,sorry



I just put my kids above politics, my 'free' time(when I'm not being a mother, running errands, cooking meals, cleaning, doing laundry, or reading with my child) is spent studying, trying to stay fit, and working to earn my degree and looking for employment,

I give (although not to political campaigns)when and where I can and single parenthood doesn't allow me a set schedule of FREE hours, I do what I can during the times I can




First of all,

Kids are susceptible to the influence of their parents. They are not mature enough to make the decisions to govern through all the problems and issues that face the country. This is why we have an age limit to vote.

Obviously you don't understand what it means to give all you have to the maintenance of our freedom. When you are ready or willing to give the ultimate sacrifice then, you're own or your children's life, then you have truly given. Otherwise you have only reaped what others have sacrificed to give.

Lpdon's photo
Fri 01/14/11 07:22 PM
asleep

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