THIS MUCH is clear in the great national debate that continues to smolder in lower Manhattan: Never before has there been such a controversy over what to do with a former Burlington Coat Factory.

But in 21st century America, few things are easy - not when the Islamic faith, memories of the 9/11 terror attacks or sound-bite politics are involved.

And so, the once obscure proposal by a Muslim group called Cordoba House to build a community center, including a prayer space, at a site roughly two blocks from a corner of the former World Trade Center has become the current focal point of U.S. politics.

It's also become a kind of Rorschach test for how Americans view the place of Islam in U.S. society, and the nation's more-than-two-centuries-old traditions of religious freedom and tolerance.

But are people debating this so-called "Ground Zero Mosque" even armed with the basic facts? Here are some questions and answers:

Q. Why do they call it "the Ground Zero Mosque"?

A. They shouldn't. In fact, there is no such thing as "the Ground Zero Mosque" or - as some GOP pols have started calling it - "the 9/11 mosque." The proposed 13-story, $100 million Islamic center is two blocks - or about two football fields - away from the Ground Zero location attacked nine years ago.

Q. What is Cordoba House and why do they want to do this?

A. The group had been looking to expand. Considered a force for a moderate and peaceful version of Islam, Cordoba's leader, Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf, has praised the lower Manhattan location because it "sends the opposite statement to what happened on 9/11."

Most local leaders - most notably New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg - have supported the proposal from the git-go.

Q. So what happened?

A. A driving force has clearly been a right-wing blogger named Pam Geller, whose site is named "Atlas Shrugs" in honor of her libertarian hero, Ayn Rand. Geller, who has made outlandish claims that President Obama is a secret Muslim, began pounding the drums in May through her group SIOA - Stop Islamization of America. Geller's efforts won headlines in the conservative-leaning New York Post, riled up some 9/11 families and floated into a political outrage-o-sphere populated by the likes of 2012 GOP White House hopefuls Newt Gingrich and Sarah Palin, who then famously took to Twitter to ask "peaceful Muslims" to "pls refudiate" the idea.

Q. But isn't it indeed an affront to 9/11 families and other New Yorkers to have an Islamic center so close to where al Qaeda attacked Manhattan?

A. A poll last week found that 68 percent of Americans (but only 31 percent in Manhattan) oppose the project. But many critics seem eager to conflate the entire Islamic faith - with 1.4 billion adherents worldwide - with the small band of violent extremists.

Although the Imam Rauf has criticized American policy at times, generally speaking Rauf and his anti-militant beliefs are Osama bin Laden's worst nightmare. That is why the administration of President Bush selected him for a Muslim outreach program to travel to Arab nations abroad in 2007.

Rauf reportedly also aided the FBI in counterterrorism efforts in 2003.

Q. But people are really just opposed to this mosque, near Ground Zero, right?

A. Not really - in fact, there have been rising cases of Americans opposing the construction of new mosques from Tennessee to California. Some experts see a link between public anger over the stalled U.S. economy and increasing xenophobia - on the border with Mexico as well as toward Islam.

"The rise of the tea party and the reaction against Obama - I think that's all raising the temperature," said Ihsan Bagby, an associate professor of Islamic studies at the University of Kentucky.

Q. Aren't some politicians exploiting that?

A. You betcha - some conservatives clearly see a chance to burnish their pre-2012 Republican primary credentials with the tea party set, including Gingrich, Palin and a right-drifting Minnesota Gov. Tim Pawlenty.

"They're running against the Muslim president who wasn't born in America," said University of Virginia historian and presidential pundit Larry Sabato, satirically referring to two myths about Obama.

Q. But won't this Islamic center muck up the sacred zone around Ground Zero?

A. That depends on your definition of the word "sacred." The New York Daily News reported this week that the two-block zone around Ground Zero includes establishments like the Pussycat Lounge, a strip club.

Q. And isn't there already a mosque in lower Manhattan?

A. Why, yes, there is. The Masjid Manhattan is little more than four blocks from Ground Zero, and it's been there since 1970, the year before the World Trade Center opened - operating with no controversy whatsoever.

Rep. Ron Paul (R-Texas) is speaking up in favor of the not-really-at-Ground Zero mosque! A strong defender of property rights, he's shared his thoughts on the proposed mosque and community center planned for 45-47 Park Place—and he basically thinks that the project's opponents are narrow-minded, bigoted demagogues! Here's an excerpt:

The debate should have provided the conservative defenders of property rights with a perfect example of how the right to own property also protects the 1st Amendment rights of assembly and religion by supporting the building of the mosque.

Instead, we hear lip service given to the property rights position while demanding that the need to be “sensitive” requires an all-out assault on the building of a mosque, several blocks from “ground zero.”...

The outcry over the building of the mosque, near ground zero, implies that Islam alone was responsible for the 9/11 attacks. According to those who are condemning the building of the mosque, the nineteen suicide terrorists on 9/11 spoke for all Muslims. This is like blaming all Christians for the wars of aggression and occupation because some Christians supported the neo-conservative’s aggressive wars...

This is all about hate and Islamaphobia.

We now have an epidemic of “sunshine patriots” on both the right and the left who are all for freedom, as long as there’s no controversy and nobody is offended.

Political demagoguery rules when truth and liberty are ignored.


Paul also points out, "The nineteen suicide bombers didn’t come from Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan or Iran. Fifteen came from our ally Saudi Arabia, a country that harbors strong American resentment, yet we invade and occupy Iraq where no al Qaeda existed prior to 9/11."

Mayor Bloomberg hosted his annual Ramadan Iftar dinner at Gracie Mansion last night, during which he touched on many themes in discussing the proposed Park51 mosque and cultural center near Ground Zero -- America's obligation to serve as an example of tolerance to the rest of the world, the bravery of U.S. troops fighting overseas and his view that a compromise on the mosque's location would not end the debate.

Bloomberg also quoted Park51 organizer Imam Faisal Abdul Rauf's comment at a memorial service for slain journalist Daniel Pearl: "If to be a Jew means to say with all
one's heart, mind, and soul: Shema Yisrael, Adonai Elohenu Adonai Ehad; Hear O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is One, not only today I am a Jew, I have always been one.’

Said Bloomberg:

"...If we say that a mosque or a community center should not be built near the perimeter of the World Trade Center site, we would compromise our commitment to fighting terror with freedom.

“We would undercut the values and principles that so many heroes died protecting. We would feed the false impressions that some Americans have about Muslims. We would send a signal around the world that Muslim Americans may be equal in the eyes of the law, but separate in the eyes of their countrymen. And we would hand a valuable propaganda tool to terrorist recruiters, who spread the fallacy that America is at war with Islam.

“Islam did not attack the World Trade Center - Al-Qaeda did. To implicate all of Islam for the actions of a few who twisted a great religion is unfair and un-American. Today we are not at war with Islam - we are at war with Al-Qaeda and other extremists who hate freedom..."

Someone has to speak up otherwise this politics section is nothing but a bunch of islamophobics who have no clue about anything.

Someone has to speak up otherwise this politics section is nothing but a bunch of islamophobics who have no clue about anything.


Hmmm...Well the one thing I will say is I have forgotten more about these issues than you know. You need to enlist. We were not "Islamophobics" before the towers fell. And for the record, fear is the wrong word for how we feel about these extremists. Think of it as a mild version of Pearl Harbour. We were not afraid, we were pissed. Now because you lack the overall information on these topics, I can see why you would say these things. Let me paint you a picture. Allowing this to happen without response is like a man sleeping with another mans wife, then suggesting that they can all live under the same roof together. When Pearl Harbour happened, there were ZERO people saying, "Japophobes"....Thousands of men and women were deceived and killed, and what was our response?? Now the next thing I would like you to consider is the comparison of lives lost between pearl and 9/11. The number of deaths is relatively close, however 9/11 saw the death of thousands of CIVILIANS!! NOT military personnel!! You take pride in your logic, but yet you do not employ it. I could go on for days against this post. I am not afraid of Islam, or the people who are a part of this faith, nor do we hate them, but to erect a Muslim relic beside or near the site of a Muslim terror attack is stupid. This time in 1941 you would've been charged with treason for these comments. Where exactly do your loyalties lie? What angers me the most is people posting opinions on things they obviously know nothing about. So I revert to my comment earlier..you need to enlist..and see for yourself how THEY feel about us...They want us dead..not just out of their country. Do you realize that we are being more than understanding? Typically all these people would be in concentration camps by now if we held the entire Muslim pop accountable for this....give your head a shake. What you need to remember is they came here....which is to say that there are certain customs they must adhere to. Not many though!, just a few. When we go there to live or visit, we MUST do as they do or they will cut off our limbs. I wonder what your stance will be when North Korea attacks...are you going to be the person who says Koreaphobics?? I'd bet my life on it. Hey maybe we were all Hitlerphobics in world war two...Come on now....and don't say they were different because they really are the same...individuals hell bent on the distruction of a race. Now if we were like that, as I said, they'd all be in prison camps.

Now to end on a nice note, I will say that it is good for you to want peace and all that peachy stuff, it's actually admirable, but since the dawn of human kind, we have never known peace, and ill even agree with you when you say we have the power to make peace, however it takes two!! ANY successful relationship requires 100% from all involved, and until our efforts are matched what you need to understand is this is war. War is terrible, and terrible things are done during war, but when you know what I know there is only one question that needs to be answered, What side do I want to end up on? I don't want to be on the Muslim side because of their laws, the way they treat their women, and methods of punishment and their lack of control of their own government and people. You should consider yourself lucky that troops are fighting for YOU even though you seem to condemn them and call us "Islamophobics". uncalled for. We don't look at you and say traitor do we?

feelings for EXTREMISTS should not be confused for feelings for MUSLIMS

someone show me where those proposing to build were behind 9/11 or any other terrorist action and I might understand the opinions expressed here


otherwise, as a minority, it is similar to the bigotry I have heard about why people dont want 'black' people living near them,,,its not that they dont think they should have the RIGHT to,, they just somehow dont want them there and their feelings are all that should matter to someone with 'proper tolerance'

Hmmm...Well the one thing I will say is I have forgotten more about these issues than you know. You need to enlist. We were not "Islamophobics" before the towers fell.

And for the record, fear is the wrong word for how we feel about these extremists.

Think of it as a mild version of Pearl Harbour. We were not afraid, we were pissed. Now because you lack the overall information on these topics, I can see why you would say these things.

jesus that's like saying when we detained the japs because of Pearl Harbour and out them in camps that we were biggots..we are talking about security, something you know nothing about. All of this kooombayyaa crap doesn't work when we are talking about security. You obviously didn't read my post lol.

WE, who is we? Who else has been attacked at 911. Let me refresh your memory. UK, Spain.

By the way, somehow you are trying to imply that the mingle2 politics section somehow represents the entire USA, you are so wrong.




And who are those "extremists"?

All the Muslims? 1.57 billion people are your enemies?



Right. Again, neither you alone, neither mingle2 politics forum and yes, neither I represent anyone but myself, but unlike you, I don't claim that "Our" idea and "our" ways are better or worse, or "Our" opinion is better than "theirs".

You lost here, buddy.

I wouldn't expect two people who have never been there and seen their hate for us to understand. You keep living in that dream world of yours.

I CONDONE RETALIATION WHEN WE ARE ATTACKED. IT COULD BE A CHRISTIAN COUNTRY FOR ALL I CARE. You two are something else. If I had bristle board and crayons I'd draw you a picture. Both of you only draw out of replies what you want...not the facts. That's ok though, just makes me look smart! I wouldn't expect two people who have never been there and seen their hate for us to understand. You keep living in that dream world of yours.

Someone has to speak up otherwise this politics section is nothing but a bunch of islamophobics who have no clue about anything.

Hmmm...Well the one thing I will say is I have forgotten more about these issues than you know. You need to enlist. We were not "Islamophobics" before the towers fell. And for the record, fear is the wrong word for how we feel about these extremists. Think of it as a mild version of Pearl Harbour. We were not afraid, we were pissed. Now because you lack the overall information on these topics, I can see why you would say these things. Let me paint you a picture. Allowing this to happen without response is like a man sleeping with another mans wife, then suggesting that they can all live under the same roof together. When Pearl Harbour happened, there were ZERO people saying, "Japophobes"....Thousands of men and women were deceived and killed, and what was our response?? Now the next thing I would like you to consider is the comparison of lives lost between pearl and 9/11. The number of deaths is relatively close, however 9/11 saw the death of thousands of CIVILIANS!! NOT military personnel!! You take pride in your logic, but yet you do not employ it. I could go on for days against this post. I am not afraid of Islam, or the people who are a part of this faith, nor do we hate them, but to erect a Muslim relic beside or near the site of a Muslim terror attack is stupid. This time in 1941 you would've been charged with treason for these comments. Where exactly do your loyalties lie? What angers me the most is people posting opinions on things they obviously know nothing about. So I revert to my comment earlier..you need to enlist..and see for yourself how THEY feel about us...They want us dead..not just out of their country. Do you realize that we are being more than understanding? Typically all these people would be in concentration camps by now if we held the entire Muslim pop accountable for this....give your head a shake. What you need to remember is they came here....which is to say that there are certain customs they must adhere to. Not many though!, just a few. When we go there to live or visit, we MUST do as they do or they will cut off our limbs. I wonder what your stance will be when North Korea attacks...are you going to be the person who says Koreaphobics?? I'd bet my life on it. Hey maybe we were all Hitlerphobics in world war two...Come on now....and don't say they were different because they really are the same...individuals hell bent on the distruction of a race. Now if we were like that, as I said, they'd all be in prison camps.

Now to end on a nice note, I will say that it is good for you to want peace and all that peachy stuff, it's actually admirable, but since the dawn of human kind, we have never known peace, and ill even agree with you when you say we have the power to make peace, however it takes two!! ANY successful relationship requires 100% from all involved, and until our efforts are matched what you need to understand is this is war. War is terrible, and terrible things are done during war, but when you know what I know there is only one question that needs to be answered, What side do I want to end up on? I don't want to be on the Muslim side because of their laws, the way they treat their women, and methods of punishment and their lack of control of their own government and people. You should consider yourself lucky that troops are fighting for YOU even though you seem to condemn them and call us "Islamophobics". uncalled for. We don't look at you and say traitor do we?

Someone has to speak up otherwise this politics section is nothing but a bunch of islamophobics who have no clue about anything.



There is no "Ground Zero" Mosque
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZpT2Muxoo0


The truth: There is no "Ground Zero" Mosque being planned.


Read more: http://www.philly.com/dailynews/top_story/20100818_Behind_emotional__exploited_firestorm__the_facts.html


Ron Paul On Mosque Opposition: "All About Hate, Islamaphobia"


http://gothamist.com/2010/08/23/ron_paul_on_mosque_opposition_all_a.php



Mayor Bloomberg Defends Mosque At Gracie Mansion Ramadan Dinner »





Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/dailypolitics/2010/08/mayor-bloomberg-defends-mosque.html#ixzz0ylk2NnO7