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| Topic: What does it mean “To serve God”? | |
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i always thought serving god was simply not being or doing evil... That's like a child thinking that simply by not being bad and destructive, that is actually contributing to something or something they should be rewarded for.  But that's exactly how a child thinks - "What (reward) is in it for me". Stop hitting your sister (Why?) Please pick-up your toys. (Why?) In each case the why refers to what will I gain OR what adverse reaction can I avoid. Teach a child that love is dependent variable (it's dependent on behavior) and that child will "learn" to love a god and learn to distrust humans. That serves no one because love from god is conditional and love from humans cannot be trusted so what sevice will such a person provide - what purpose dose their life serve? life serves the purpose of learning and growing,,, love is not dependent upon behavior but consequence is my parents loved me my whole life, yet they still disciplined me and they still taught me how to treat others and what treatment I was worth by others If I had a child/husband/friend, whom I loved, but every time they drank they hauled off and wailed on my face they would have to be out of my life unless/until their behavior changed, it would have nothing to do with whether I still loved them though, it would be a consequence of their actions,, Separating the physical form from the personality (love the sinnner BS) is simply a way to quell the dissonance between belief and your behavior. I love you but not your behavior so you are out of my life. I love you but not your actions so you will not be treated with the same consideration I would give others whose actions I approve of. I love you unconditionally, unless you don't love me the same way. Tell me - what happens when you don't like gods behavior? God makes people to suffer - but you never hold him responsible for his actions. There is obviously a double standard applied to love - love humans one way and god another. Is that an admission that humans are here NOW and can harm you NOW, so you must protect yourself but god is not here and can neither protect or harm you NOW? not at all, loving others does not require us to stop loving ourself enough to expect certain treatment and respect, we can love those who choose not to give us either but that doesnt mean we have to have them in our life there IS such a thing as loving from a distance of course IM not going to treat/react the same way to someone who gives me a hug as to someone who hits me,,thats nothing unreasonable and nothing to do with love,,, You know the 'bad behavior' that causes you to divorce the personality from the physical body does not have to involve you, does it? So what would be bad enough behavior, on the part of one of your children for you to treat that child differently -- to NOT reward that child with your 'gifts' or you presence or your support? What is the child became an athiest or converted to the Jewish faith or simply came out of the closet? Would any of those thing force you to alter your gifts, presence or support? no, their feelings and beliefs, IMHO, are not something anyone can TRULY know besides them and their creator,, and sometimes they arent even that sure,,lol what would alter my support (financially) is if I knew they were using that support in ways that harmed them, or their spiritual or physical health but I would still love them what would alter my support (presence) is if they were INVOLVED in ACTIVITY that was counterproductive, or harmful to their spiritual or physical health, I would not agree to be INCLUDED in those activities during the times they were engaging but I would still love them I have friends who smoke pot, I love them, they are breaking the law, and I will not be in their presence WHILE They are in the COMMISSION of breaking the law, but otherwise our relationship would still survive because of all the other moments when they werent and I would still love them Soooooo.... You wanna hit this?!?!? 
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smh
its been asked and answered a hundred times before no,, but give me a call when you are DONE,,, 
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Unconditional love does not mean you have to 'like' the person or what the person has become by his or her own choosing. Unconditional love does not mean you have to put up with a person, or abide or accept his bad behavior. Unconditional love is compassion and the sincere hope that person will find happiness and health. It does not require you to hang out with them. Bad behavior is like disease. It is dysfunctional and unbalanced. It is a symptom of the lack of inner love. It is a sign of self hate. Sometimes it is cured or overcome. Sometimes people can change. And who decides what bad behavior is? You say 'bad behavior is like a disease and it's dysfunctional and unbalanced' - how can you say that unless YOU are the one dictating what bad behavior is? In the Christian faith, the individual is the one deciding what behavior is good or bad. For example: MsHarmony says I consider humans much less evolved and wise than God, and I dont feel we were a creation for creations sake but a creation for the sake of glorifying God, being an extension of his love and grace Yet in the past she has also said that she does not force her children to feel that same way. I have to wonder if her children do not believe as she does if she would still love them or if one believed and another did not would she treat them differently? As I said JB - bad behavior can be a subjective social norm or just subjective. there is certainly no IF to ponder here, there are things I believe which my children do not, and I will always love them and encourage them to live healthy , loving lives whether they agree what is healthy and loving, is not a matter that will change that I love them, or that (because of that love) IM always going to root for what I think is their BEST outcome,,, In other words you would not support that child through life's challenges if the challege was a result of something you did not agree with. You will always "root for what" YOU "think is their best outcome" BASED ON WHAT? I can only hope you reply -- based on whatever god wills -- At least then I would totally understand that you have an external locus of control meaning that everything that happens is totally out of your control and it just happens to you (by god's will) so you assume the same is true of others. ?? |
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Thu 05/19/11 10:46 PM
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Unconditional love does not mean you have to 'like' the person or what the person has become by his or her own choosing. Unconditional love does not mean you have to put up with a person, or abide or accept his bad behavior. Unconditional love is compassion and the sincere hope that person will find happiness and health. It does not require you to hang out with them. Bad behavior is like disease. It is dysfunctional and unbalanced. It is a symptom of the lack of inner love. It is a sign of self hate. Sometimes it is cured or overcome. Sometimes people can change. And who decides what bad behavior is? You say 'bad behavior is like a disease and it's dysfunctional and unbalanced' - how can you say that unless YOU are the one dictating what bad behavior is? In the Christian faith, the individual is the one deciding what behavior is good or bad. For example: MsHarmony says I consider humans much less evolved and wise than God, and I dont feel we were a creation for creations sake but a creation for the sake of glorifying God, being an extension of his love and grace Yet in the past she has also said that she does not force her children to feel that same way. I have to wonder if her children do not believe as she does if she would still love them or if one believed and another did not would she treat them differently? As I said JB - bad behavior can be a subjective social norm or just subjective. Perhaps. But what I mean by "bad behavior" would be obvious hurtful things that are cruel, harmful, hateful, destructive towards others, etc. Murder, torture, terrorism, and criminal activities against others. A person who is truly intelligent, wise, honest and loving is less likely to be dysfunctional or "bad." It gets back to the question of morality and where it comes from originally. I believe it is an innate instinct. People who are violent have probably lead violent lives. They are wounded and dysfunctional or unbalanced. Emotionally disturbed etc. |
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Unconditional love does not mean you have to 'like' the person or what the person has become by his or her own choosing. Unconditional love does not mean you have to put up with a person, or abide or accept his bad behavior. Unconditional love is compassion and the sincere hope that person will find happiness and health. It does not require you to hang out with them. Bad behavior is like disease. It is dysfunctional and unbalanced. It is a symptom of the lack of inner love. It is a sign of self hate. Sometimes it is cured or overcome. Sometimes people can change. And who decides what bad behavior is? You say 'bad behavior is like a disease and it's dysfunctional and unbalanced' - how can you say that unless YOU are the one dictating what bad behavior is? In the Christian faith, the individual is the one deciding what behavior is good or bad. For example: MsHarmony says I consider humans much less evolved and wise than God, and I dont feel we were a creation for creations sake but a creation for the sake of glorifying God, being an extension of his love and grace Yet in the past she has also said that she does not force her children to feel that same way. I have to wonder if her children do not believe as she does if she would still love them or if one believed and another did not would she treat them differently? As I said JB - bad behavior can be a subjective social norm or just subjective. there is certainly no IF to ponder here, there are things I believe which my children do not, and I will always love them and encourage them to live healthy , loving lives whether they agree what is healthy and loving, is not a matter that will change that I love them, or that (because of that love) IM always going to root for what I think is their BEST outcome,,, In other words you would not support that child through life's challenges if the challege was a result of something you did not agree with. You will always "root for what" YOU "think is their best outcome" BASED ON WHAT? I can only hope you reply -- based on whatever god wills -- At least then I would totally understand that you have an external locus of control meaning that everything that happens is totally out of your control and it just happens to you (by god's will) so you assume the same is true of others. ?? I actually believe we have choices and those choices have consequences, and when we make choices being aware of the consequences, the consequences are our responsibility I will root for what I think is best for them based upon whatever that means to me,,based upon experience and observation of life and the world around me, why would I root for less than what was best for my children? people seem to paraphrase so poorly in these threads but no, I said nothing about not supporting my kids through challenges, I can support my child by trying to teach them to make good choices, not by just going along with whatever choice they decide upon, and when they do not make a good choice, I will not be a hypocrite who tells them otherwise or acts otherwise, but in our family, that is seperate from being loved, we have never mandated that our choices and activities be cosigned on in order to be loved, I know I am loved and I EXPECT my parents to love GOOD and RIGHT as well, enough to lead me down those paths when I am turned around instead of just smiling at my side as if it is all fine,,, |
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Edited by
Kleisto
on
Fri 05/20/11 01:30 PM
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Unconditional love does not mean you have to 'like' the person or what the person has become by his or her own choosing. Unconditional love does not mean you have to put up with a person, or abide or accept his bad behavior. Unconditional love is compassion and the sincere hope that person will find happiness and health. It does not require you to hang out with them. Bad behavior is like disease. It is dysfunctional and unbalanced. It is a symptom of the lack of inner love. It is a sign of self hate. Sometimes it is cured or overcome. Sometimes people can change. And who decides what bad behavior is? You say 'bad behavior is like a disease and it's dysfunctional and unbalanced' - how can you say that unless YOU are the one dictating what bad behavior is? In the Christian faith, the individual is the one deciding what behavior is good or bad. For example: MsHarmony says I consider humans much less evolved and wise than God, and I dont feel we were a creation for creations sake but a creation for the sake of glorifying God, being an extension of his love and grace Yet in the past she has also said that she does not force her children to feel that same way. I have to wonder if her children do not believe as she does if she would still love them or if one believed and another did not would she treat them differently? As I said JB - bad behavior can be a subjective social norm or just subjective. there is certainly no IF to ponder here, there are things I believe which my children do not, and I will always love them and encourage them to live healthy , loving lives whether they agree what is healthy and loving, is not a matter that will change that I love them, or that (because of that love) IM always going to root for what I think is their BEST outcome,,, In other words you would not support that child through life's challenges if the challege was a result of something you did not agree with. You will always "root for what" YOU "think is their best outcome" BASED ON WHAT? I can only hope you reply -- based on whatever god wills -- At least then I would totally understand that you have an external locus of control meaning that everything that happens is totally out of your control and it just happens to you (by god's will) so you assume the same is true of others. ?? I actually believe we have choices and those choices have consequences, and when we make choices being aware of the consequences, the consequences are our responsibility I will root for what I think is best for them based upon whatever that means to me,,based upon experience and observation of life and the world around me, why would I root for less than what was best for my children? people seem to paraphrase so poorly in these threads but no, I said nothing about not supporting my kids through challenges, I can support my child by trying to teach them to make good choices, not by just going along with whatever choice they decide upon, and when they do not make a good choice, I will not be a hypocrite who tells them otherwise or acts otherwise, but in our family, that is seperate from being loved, we have never mandated that our choices and activities be cosigned on in order to be loved, I know I am loved and I EXPECT my parents to love GOOD and RIGHT as well, enough to lead me down those paths when I am turned around instead of just smiling at my side as if it is all fine,,, What if they are truly happy, doing what they are doing though? Who are you to say they are wrong? Such as in the case of one loving another man or another woman. If it makes them happy, and it isn't harming them or someone else.......I'm not gonna tell them no. You do that, and you risk alienating them. If they're happy, and in a good place, I say let them be. If things start to go south, you be there for them as you can, but otherwise leave them be to make of their lives what they want. |
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Edited by
msharmony
on
Fri 05/20/11 01:34 PM
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Unconditional love does not mean you have to 'like' the person or what the person has become by his or her own choosing. Unconditional love does not mean you have to put up with a person, or abide or accept his bad behavior. Unconditional love is compassion and the sincere hope that person will find happiness and health. It does not require you to hang out with them. Bad behavior is like disease. It is dysfunctional and unbalanced. It is a symptom of the lack of inner love. It is a sign of self hate. Sometimes it is cured or overcome. Sometimes people can change. And who decides what bad behavior is? You say 'bad behavior is like a disease and it's dysfunctional and unbalanced' - how can you say that unless YOU are the one dictating what bad behavior is? In the Christian faith, the individual is the one deciding what behavior is good or bad. For example: MsHarmony says I consider humans much less evolved and wise than God, and I dont feel we were a creation for creations sake but a creation for the sake of glorifying God, being an extension of his love and grace Yet in the past she has also said that she does not force her children to feel that same way. I have to wonder if her children do not believe as she does if she would still love them or if one believed and another did not would she treat them differently? As I said JB - bad behavior can be a subjective social norm or just subjective. there is certainly no IF to ponder here, there are things I believe which my children do not, and I will always love them and encourage them to live healthy , loving lives whether they agree what is healthy and loving, is not a matter that will change that I love them, or that (because of that love) IM always going to root for what I think is their BEST outcome,,, In other words you would not support that child through life's challenges if the challege was a result of something you did not agree with. You will always "root for what" YOU "think is their best outcome" BASED ON WHAT? I can only hope you reply -- based on whatever god wills -- At least then I would totally understand that you have an external locus of control meaning that everything that happens is totally out of your control and it just happens to you (by god's will) so you assume the same is true of others. ?? I actually believe we have choices and those choices have consequences, and when we make choices being aware of the consequences, the consequences are our responsibility I will root for what I think is best for them based upon whatever that means to me,,based upon experience and observation of life and the world around me, why would I root for less than what was best for my children? people seem to paraphrase so poorly in these threads but no, I said nothing about not supporting my kids through challenges, I can support my child by trying to teach them to make good choices, not by just going along with whatever choice they decide upon, and when they do not make a good choice, I will not be a hypocrite who tells them otherwise or acts otherwise, but in our family, that is seperate from being loved, we have never mandated that our choices and activities be cosigned on in order to be loved, I know I am loved and I EXPECT my parents to love GOOD and RIGHT as well, enough to lead me down those paths when I am turned around instead of just smiling at my side as if it is all fine,,, What if they are truly happy, doing what they are doing though? Who are you to say they are wrong? Such as in the case of one loving another man or another woman. If it makes them happy, and it isn't harming them or someone else.......I'm not gonna tell them no. You do that, and you risk alienating them. If they're happy, and in a good place, I say let them be. If things start to go south, you be there for them as you can, but otherwise leave them be to make of their lives what they want. here is where I will agree with another post in this or some other thread, that stepping outside the box sometimes takes bravery right and wrong are not simple concepts, and we are guided in our own lives by our chosen resources (books, laws, conscious) to decide upon what those things are something making someone truly happy doesnt negate it being wrong, and never will I dont buy into the modern cop out that 'if it feels right it cant be wrong',,, I step out on the limb to aknowledge that OFTEN TIMES things that are very wrong 'feel' right(on some mortal and physical level), or else we would all have a much EASIER Time doing right and not wrong it might make my daughter TRULY HAPPY to eat chocolate all day long,,,,but that doesnt make it a good idea, not healthy for her body at all down the road similarly, I believe in SPIRITUAL HEALTH, a type of health that many things which in the flesh make us HAPPY will cause harm to ,,,that is my gauge, ,it doesnt have to be anyone elses,,, |
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Unconditional love does not mean you have to 'like' the person or what the person has become by his or her own choosing. Unconditional love does not mean you have to put up with a person, or abide or accept his bad behavior. Unconditional love is compassion and the sincere hope that person will find happiness and health. It does not require you to hang out with them. Bad behavior is like disease. It is dysfunctional and unbalanced. It is a symptom of the lack of inner love. It is a sign of self hate. Sometimes it is cured or overcome. Sometimes people can change. And who decides what bad behavior is? You say 'bad behavior is like a disease and it's dysfunctional and unbalanced' - how can you say that unless YOU are the one dictating what bad behavior is? In the Christian faith, the individual is the one deciding what behavior is good or bad. For example: MsHarmony says I consider humans much less evolved and wise than God, and I dont feel we were a creation for creations sake but a creation for the sake of glorifying God, being an extension of his love and grace Yet in the past she has also said that she does not force her children to feel that same way. I have to wonder if her children do not believe as she does if she would still love them or if one believed and another did not would she treat them differently? As I said JB - bad behavior can be a subjective social norm or just subjective. there is certainly no IF to ponder here, there are things I believe which my children do not, and I will always love them and encourage them to live healthy , loving lives whether they agree what is healthy and loving, is not a matter that will change that I love them, or that (because of that love) IM always going to root for what I think is their BEST outcome,,, In other words you would not support that child through life's challenges if the challege was a result of something you did not agree with. You will always "root for what" YOU "think is their best outcome" BASED ON WHAT? I can only hope you reply -- based on whatever god wills -- At least then I would totally understand that you have an external locus of control meaning that everything that happens is totally out of your control and it just happens to you (by god's will) so you assume the same is true of others. ?? I actually believe we have choices and those choices have consequences, and when we make choices being aware of the consequences, the consequences are our responsibility I will root for what I think is best for them based upon whatever that means to me,,based upon experience and observation of life and the world around me, why would I root for less than what was best for my children? people seem to paraphrase so poorly in these threads but no, I said nothing about not supporting my kids through challenges, I can support my child by trying to teach them to make good choices, not by just going along with whatever choice they decide upon, and when they do not make a good choice, I will not be a hypocrite who tells them otherwise or acts otherwise, but in our family, that is seperate from being loved, we have never mandated that our choices and activities be cosigned on in order to be loved, I know I am loved and I EXPECT my parents to love GOOD and RIGHT as well, enough to lead me down those paths when I am turned around instead of just smiling at my side as if it is all fine,,, What if they are truly happy, doing what they are doing though? Who are you to say they are wrong? Such as in the case of one loving another man or another woman. If it makes them happy, and it isn't harming them or someone else.......I'm not gonna tell them no. You do that, and you risk alienating them. If they're happy, and in a good place, I say let them be. If things start to go south, you be there for them as you can, but otherwise leave them be to make of their lives what they want. oh, and I also do not tell my grown child yes or no, I allow him his own choices but WHEN ASKED, I am honest about what I think is the wisdom and risk of those choices,,, often times people will alienate from those who dont support them in what they WANT to do,, thats a risk of life, but it shouldnt stop us from being honest with those we love,,, |
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Unconditional love does not mean you have to 'like' the person or what the person has become by his or her own choosing. Unconditional love does not mean you have to put up with a person, or abide or accept his bad behavior. Unconditional love is compassion and the sincere hope that person will find happiness and health. It does not require you to hang out with them. Bad behavior is like disease. It is dysfunctional and unbalanced. It is a symptom of the lack of inner love. It is a sign of self hate. Sometimes it is cured or overcome. Sometimes people can change. And who decides what bad behavior is? You say 'bad behavior is like a disease and it's dysfunctional and unbalanced' - how can you say that unless YOU are the one dictating what bad behavior is? In the Christian faith, the individual is the one deciding what behavior is good or bad. For example: MsHarmony says I consider humans much less evolved and wise than God, and I dont feel we were a creation for creations sake but a creation for the sake of glorifying God, being an extension of his love and grace Yet in the past she has also said that she does not force her children to feel that same way. I have to wonder if her children do not believe as she does if she would still love them or if one believed and another did not would she treat them differently? As I said JB - bad behavior can be a subjective social norm or just subjective. there is certainly no IF to ponder here, there are things I believe which my children do not, and I will always love them and encourage them to live healthy , loving lives whether they agree what is healthy and loving, is not a matter that will change that I love them, or that (because of that love) IM always going to root for what I think is their BEST outcome,,, In other words you would not support that child through life's challenges if the challege was a result of something you did not agree with. You will always "root for what" YOU "think is their best outcome" BASED ON WHAT? I can only hope you reply -- based on whatever god wills -- At least then I would totally understand that you have an external locus of control meaning that everything that happens is totally out of your control and it just happens to you (by god's will) so you assume the same is true of others. ?? I actually believe we have choices and those choices have consequences, and when we make choices being aware of the consequences, the consequences are our responsibility I will root for what I think is best for them based upon whatever that means to me,,based upon experience and observation of life and the world around me, why would I root for less than what was best for my children? people seem to paraphrase so poorly in these threads but no, I said nothing about not supporting my kids through challenges, I can support my child by trying to teach them to make good choices, not by just going along with whatever choice they decide upon, and when they do not make a good choice, I will not be a hypocrite who tells them otherwise or acts otherwise, but in our family, that is seperate from being loved, we have never mandated that our choices and activities be cosigned on in order to be loved, I know I am loved and I EXPECT my parents to love GOOD and RIGHT as well, enough to lead me down those paths when I am turned around instead of just smiling at my side as if it is all fine,,, What if they are truly happy, doing what they are doing though? Who are you to say they are wrong? Such as in the case of one loving another man or another woman. If it makes them happy, and it isn't harming them or someone else.......I'm not gonna tell them no. You do that, and you risk alienating them. If they're happy, and in a good place, I say let them be. If things start to go south, you be there for them as you can, but otherwise leave them be to make of their lives what they want. oh, and I also do not tell my grown child yes or no, I allow him his own choices but WHEN ASKED, I am honest about what I think is the wisdom and risk of those choices,,, often times people will alienate from those who dont support them in what they WANT to do,, thats a risk of life, but it shouldnt stop us from being honest with those we love,,, But if what they WANT, isn't hurting them, who are we to judge them? That's my whole point. |
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Unconditional love does not mean you have to 'like' the person or what the person has become by his or her own choosing. Unconditional love does not mean you have to put up with a person, or abide or accept his bad behavior. Unconditional love is compassion and the sincere hope that person will find happiness and health. It does not require you to hang out with them. Bad behavior is like disease. It is dysfunctional and unbalanced. It is a symptom of the lack of inner love. It is a sign of self hate. Sometimes it is cured or overcome. Sometimes people can change. And who decides what bad behavior is? You say 'bad behavior is like a disease and it's dysfunctional and unbalanced' - how can you say that unless YOU are the one dictating what bad behavior is? In the Christian faith, the individual is the one deciding what behavior is good or bad. For example: MsHarmony says I consider humans much less evolved and wise than God, and I dont feel we were a creation for creations sake but a creation for the sake of glorifying God, being an extension of his love and grace Yet in the past she has also said that she does not force her children to feel that same way. I have to wonder if her children do not believe as she does if she would still love them or if one believed and another did not would she treat them differently? As I said JB - bad behavior can be a subjective social norm or just subjective. there is certainly no IF to ponder here, there are things I believe which my children do not, and I will always love them and encourage them to live healthy , loving lives whether they agree what is healthy and loving, is not a matter that will change that I love them, or that (because of that love) IM always going to root for what I think is their BEST outcome,,, In other words you would not support that child through life's challenges if the challege was a result of something you did not agree with. You will always "root for what" YOU "think is their best outcome" BASED ON WHAT? I can only hope you reply -- based on whatever god wills -- At least then I would totally understand that you have an external locus of control meaning that everything that happens is totally out of your control and it just happens to you (by god's will) so you assume the same is true of others. ?? I actually believe we have choices and those choices have consequences, and when we make choices being aware of the consequences, the consequences are our responsibility I will root for what I think is best for them based upon whatever that means to me,,based upon experience and observation of life and the world around me, why would I root for less than what was best for my children? people seem to paraphrase so poorly in these threads but no, I said nothing about not supporting my kids through challenges, I can support my child by trying to teach them to make good choices, not by just going along with whatever choice they decide upon, and when they do not make a good choice, I will not be a hypocrite who tells them otherwise or acts otherwise, but in our family, that is seperate from being loved, we have never mandated that our choices and activities be cosigned on in order to be loved, I know I am loved and I EXPECT my parents to love GOOD and RIGHT as well, enough to lead me down those paths when I am turned around instead of just smiling at my side as if it is all fine,,, What if they are truly happy, doing what they are doing though? Who are you to say they are wrong? Such as in the case of one loving another man or another woman. If it makes them happy, and it isn't harming them or someone else.......I'm not gonna tell them no. You do that, and you risk alienating them. If they're happy, and in a good place, I say let them be. If things start to go south, you be there for them as you can, but otherwise leave them be to make of their lives what they want. oh, and I also do not tell my grown child yes or no, I allow him his own choices but WHEN ASKED, I am honest about what I think is the wisdom and risk of those choices,,, often times people will alienate from those who dont support them in what they WANT to do,, thats a risk of life, but it shouldnt stop us from being honest with those we love,,, But if what they WANT, isn't hurting them, who are we to judge them? That's my whole point. just defining what is 'hurting them' is a judgment and we are the ones who make it ,,,,even by declaring it isnt 'hurting' them |
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Edited by
Kleisto
on
Fri 05/20/11 02:32 PM
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Unconditional love does not mean you have to 'like' the person or what the person has become by his or her own choosing. Unconditional love does not mean you have to put up with a person, or abide or accept his bad behavior. Unconditional love is compassion and the sincere hope that person will find happiness and health. It does not require you to hang out with them. Bad behavior is like disease. It is dysfunctional and unbalanced. It is a symptom of the lack of inner love. It is a sign of self hate. Sometimes it is cured or overcome. Sometimes people can change. And who decides what bad behavior is? You say 'bad behavior is like a disease and it's dysfunctional and unbalanced' - how can you say that unless YOU are the one dictating what bad behavior is? In the Christian faith, the individual is the one deciding what behavior is good or bad. For example: MsHarmony says I consider humans much less evolved and wise than God, and I dont feel we were a creation for creations sake but a creation for the sake of glorifying God, being an extension of his love and grace Yet in the past she has also said that she does not force her children to feel that same way. I have to wonder if her children do not believe as she does if she would still love them or if one believed and another did not would she treat them differently? As I said JB - bad behavior can be a subjective social norm or just subjective. there is certainly no IF to ponder here, there are things I believe which my children do not, and I will always love them and encourage them to live healthy , loving lives whether they agree what is healthy and loving, is not a matter that will change that I love them, or that (because of that love) IM always going to root for what I think is their BEST outcome,,, In other words you would not support that child through life's challenges if the challege was a result of something you did not agree with. You will always "root for what" YOU "think is their best outcome" BASED ON WHAT? I can only hope you reply -- based on whatever god wills -- At least then I would totally understand that you have an external locus of control meaning that everything that happens is totally out of your control and it just happens to you (by god's will) so you assume the same is true of others. ?? I actually believe we have choices and those choices have consequences, and when we make choices being aware of the consequences, the consequences are our responsibility I will root for what I think is best for them based upon whatever that means to me,,based upon experience and observation of life and the world around me, why would I root for less than what was best for my children? people seem to paraphrase so poorly in these threads but no, I said nothing about not supporting my kids through challenges, I can support my child by trying to teach them to make good choices, not by just going along with whatever choice they decide upon, and when they do not make a good choice, I will not be a hypocrite who tells them otherwise or acts otherwise, but in our family, that is seperate from being loved, we have never mandated that our choices and activities be cosigned on in order to be loved, I know I am loved and I EXPECT my parents to love GOOD and RIGHT as well, enough to lead me down those paths when I am turned around instead of just smiling at my side as if it is all fine,,, What if they are truly happy, doing what they are doing though? Who are you to say they are wrong? Such as in the case of one loving another man or another woman. If it makes them happy, and it isn't harming them or someone else.......I'm not gonna tell them no. You do that, and you risk alienating them. If they're happy, and in a good place, I say let them be. If things start to go south, you be there for them as you can, but otherwise leave them be to make of their lives what they want. oh, and I also do not tell my grown child yes or no, I allow him his own choices but WHEN ASKED, I am honest about what I think is the wisdom and risk of those choices,,, often times people will alienate from those who dont support them in what they WANT to do,, thats a risk of life, but it shouldnt stop us from being honest with those we love,,, But if what they WANT, isn't hurting them, who are we to judge them? That's my whole point. just defining what is 'hurting them' is a judgment and we are the ones who make it ,,,,even by declaring it isnt 'hurting' them Certain things are obvious though, or at least they should be. All the religion and morality thing apart from our own, is what creates all the gray areas. If someone loves another person and are happy, aren't being hurt, etc. I see no reason to believe that it is hurting them, I don't care what any supposed holy book says. |
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Unconditional love does not mean you have to 'like' the person or what the person has become by his or her own choosing. Unconditional love does not mean you have to put up with a person, or abide or accept his bad behavior. Unconditional love is compassion and the sincere hope that person will find happiness and health. It does not require you to hang out with them. Bad behavior is like disease. It is dysfunctional and unbalanced. It is a symptom of the lack of inner love. It is a sign of self hate. Sometimes it is cured or overcome. Sometimes people can change. And who decides what bad behavior is? You say 'bad behavior is like a disease and it's dysfunctional and unbalanced' - how can you say that unless YOU are the one dictating what bad behavior is? In the Christian faith, the individual is the one deciding what behavior is good or bad. For example: MsHarmony says I consider humans much less evolved and wise than God, and I dont feel we were a creation for creations sake but a creation for the sake of glorifying God, being an extension of his love and grace Yet in the past she has also said that she does not force her children to feel that same way. I have to wonder if her children do not believe as she does if she would still love them or if one believed and another did not would she treat them differently? As I said JB - bad behavior can be a subjective social norm or just subjective. there is certainly no IF to ponder here, there are things I believe which my children do not, and I will always love them and encourage them to live healthy , loving lives whether they agree what is healthy and loving, is not a matter that will change that I love them, or that (because of that love) IM always going to root for what I think is their BEST outcome,,, In other words you would not support that child through life's challenges if the challege was a result of something you did not agree with. You will always "root for what" YOU "think is their best outcome" BASED ON WHAT? I can only hope you reply -- based on whatever god wills -- At least then I would totally understand that you have an external locus of control meaning that everything that happens is totally out of your control and it just happens to you (by god's will) so you assume the same is true of others. ?? I actually believe we have choices and those choices have consequences, and when we make choices being aware of the consequences, the consequences are our responsibility I will root for what I think is best for them based upon whatever that means to me,,based upon experience and observation of life and the world around me, why would I root for less than what was best for my children? people seem to paraphrase so poorly in these threads but no, I said nothing about not supporting my kids through challenges, I can support my child by trying to teach them to make good choices, not by just going along with whatever choice they decide upon, and when they do not make a good choice, I will not be a hypocrite who tells them otherwise or acts otherwise, but in our family, that is seperate from being loved, we have never mandated that our choices and activities be cosigned on in order to be loved, I know I am loved and I EXPECT my parents to love GOOD and RIGHT as well, enough to lead me down those paths when I am turned around instead of just smiling at my side as if it is all fine,,, What if they are truly happy, doing what they are doing though? Who are you to say they are wrong? Such as in the case of one loving another man or another woman. If it makes them happy, and it isn't harming them or someone else.......I'm not gonna tell them no. You do that, and you risk alienating them. If they're happy, and in a good place, I say let them be. If things start to go south, you be there for them as you can, but otherwise leave them be to make of their lives what they want. oh, and I also do not tell my grown child yes or no, I allow him his own choices but WHEN ASKED, I am honest about what I think is the wisdom and risk of those choices,,, often times people will alienate from those who dont support them in what they WANT to do,, thats a risk of life, but it shouldnt stop us from being honest with those we love,,, But if what they WANT, isn't hurting them, who are we to judge them? That's my whole point. just defining what is 'hurting them' is a judgment and we are the ones who make it ,,,,even by declaring it isnt 'hurting' them Certain things are obvious though, or at least they should be. All the religion and morality thing apart from our own, is what creates all the gray areas. 'obvious' is a very grey area,,,,outside of specific and controlled environments and circumstances,, |
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Edited by
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Fri 05/20/11 02:35 PM
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Unconditional love does not mean you have to 'like' the person or what the person has become by his or her own choosing. Unconditional love does not mean you have to put up with a person, or abide or accept his bad behavior. Unconditional love is compassion and the sincere hope that person will find happiness and health. It does not require you to hang out with them. Bad behavior is like disease. It is dysfunctional and unbalanced. It is a symptom of the lack of inner love. It is a sign of self hate. Sometimes it is cured or overcome. Sometimes people can change. And who decides what bad behavior is? You say 'bad behavior is like a disease and it's dysfunctional and unbalanced' - how can you say that unless YOU are the one dictating what bad behavior is? In the Christian faith, the individual is the one deciding what behavior is good or bad. For example: MsHarmony says I consider humans much less evolved and wise than God, and I dont feel we were a creation for creations sake but a creation for the sake of glorifying God, being an extension of his love and grace Yet in the past she has also said that she does not force her children to feel that same way. I have to wonder if her children do not believe as she does if she would still love them or if one believed and another did not would she treat them differently? As I said JB - bad behavior can be a subjective social norm or just subjective. there is certainly no IF to ponder here, there are things I believe which my children do not, and I will always love them and encourage them to live healthy , loving lives whether they agree what is healthy and loving, is not a matter that will change that I love them, or that (because of that love) IM always going to root for what I think is their BEST outcome,,, In other words you would not support that child through life's challenges if the challege was a result of something you did not agree with. You will always "root for what" YOU "think is their best outcome" BASED ON WHAT? I can only hope you reply -- based on whatever god wills -- At least then I would totally understand that you have an external locus of control meaning that everything that happens is totally out of your control and it just happens to you (by god's will) so you assume the same is true of others. ?? I actually believe we have choices and those choices have consequences, and when we make choices being aware of the consequences, the consequences are our responsibility I will root for what I think is best for them based upon whatever that means to me,,based upon experience and observation of life and the world around me, why would I root for less than what was best for my children? people seem to paraphrase so poorly in these threads but no, I said nothing about not supporting my kids through challenges, I can support my child by trying to teach them to make good choices, not by just going along with whatever choice they decide upon, and when they do not make a good choice, I will not be a hypocrite who tells them otherwise or acts otherwise, but in our family, that is seperate from being loved, we have never mandated that our choices and activities be cosigned on in order to be loved, I know I am loved and I EXPECT my parents to love GOOD and RIGHT as well, enough to lead me down those paths when I am turned around instead of just smiling at my side as if it is all fine,,, What if they are truly happy, doing what they are doing though? Who are you to say they are wrong? Such as in the case of one loving another man or another woman. If it makes them happy, and it isn't harming them or someone else.......I'm not gonna tell them no. You do that, and you risk alienating them. If they're happy, and in a good place, I say let them be. If things start to go south, you be there for them as you can, but otherwise leave them be to make of their lives what they want. oh, and I also do not tell my grown child yes or no, I allow him his own choices but WHEN ASKED, I am honest about what I think is the wisdom and risk of those choices,,, often times people will alienate from those who dont support them in what they WANT to do,, thats a risk of life, but it shouldnt stop us from being honest with those we love,,, But if what they WANT, isn't hurting them, who are we to judge them? That's my whole point. just defining what is 'hurting them' is a judgment and we are the ones who make it ,,,,even by declaring it isnt 'hurting' them Certain things are obvious though, or at least they should be. All the religion and morality thing apart from our own, is what creates all the gray areas. 'obvious' is a very grey area,,,,outside of specific and controlled environments and circumstances,, I still say religion has made it gray where it needn't be. We all have a moral conscience. Now whether we listen to it or not is another matter, but we don't need a book or anything else to dictate it to us. |
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Unconditional love does not mean you have to 'like' the person or what the person has become by his or her own choosing. Unconditional love does not mean you have to put up with a person, or abide or accept his bad behavior. Unconditional love is compassion and the sincere hope that person will find happiness and health. It does not require you to hang out with them. Bad behavior is like disease. It is dysfunctional and unbalanced. It is a symptom of the lack of inner love. It is a sign of self hate. Sometimes it is cured or overcome. Sometimes people can change. And who decides what bad behavior is? You say 'bad behavior is like a disease and it's dysfunctional and unbalanced' - how can you say that unless YOU are the one dictating what bad behavior is? In the Christian faith, the individual is the one deciding what behavior is good or bad. For example: MsHarmony says I consider humans much less evolved and wise than God, and I dont feel we were a creation for creations sake but a creation for the sake of glorifying God, being an extension of his love and grace Yet in the past she has also said that she does not force her children to feel that same way. I have to wonder if her children do not believe as she does if she would still love them or if one believed and another did not would she treat them differently? As I said JB - bad behavior can be a subjective social norm or just subjective. there is certainly no IF to ponder here, there are things I believe which my children do not, and I will always love them and encourage them to live healthy , loving lives whether they agree what is healthy and loving, is not a matter that will change that I love them, or that (because of that love) IM always going to root for what I think is their BEST outcome,,, In other words you would not support that child through life's challenges if the challege was a result of something you did not agree with. You will always "root for what" YOU "think is their best outcome" BASED ON WHAT? I can only hope you reply -- based on whatever god wills -- At least then I would totally understand that you have an external locus of control meaning that everything that happens is totally out of your control and it just happens to you (by god's will) so you assume the same is true of others. ?? I actually believe we have choices and those choices have consequences, and when we make choices being aware of the consequences, the consequences are our responsibility I will root for what I think is best for them based upon whatever that means to me,,based upon experience and observation of life and the world around me, why would I root for less than what was best for my children? people seem to paraphrase so poorly in these threads but no, I said nothing about not supporting my kids through challenges, I can support my child by trying to teach them to make good choices, not by just going along with whatever choice they decide upon, and when they do not make a good choice, I will not be a hypocrite who tells them otherwise or acts otherwise, but in our family, that is seperate from being loved, we have never mandated that our choices and activities be cosigned on in order to be loved, I know I am loved and I EXPECT my parents to love GOOD and RIGHT as well, enough to lead me down those paths when I am turned around instead of just smiling at my side as if it is all fine,,, What if they are truly happy, doing what they are doing though? Who are you to say they are wrong? Such as in the case of one loving another man or another woman. If it makes them happy, and it isn't harming them or someone else.......I'm not gonna tell them no. You do that, and you risk alienating them. If they're happy, and in a good place, I say let them be. If things start to go south, you be there for them as you can, but otherwise leave them be to make of their lives what they want. oh, and I also do not tell my grown child yes or no, I allow him his own choices but WHEN ASKED, I am honest about what I think is the wisdom and risk of those choices,,, often times people will alienate from those who dont support them in what they WANT to do,, thats a risk of life, but it shouldnt stop us from being honest with those we love,,, But if what they WANT, isn't hurting them, who are we to judge them? That's my whole point. just defining what is 'hurting them' is a judgment and we are the ones who make it ,,,,even by declaring it isnt 'hurting' them Certain things are obvious though, or at least they should be. All the religion and morality thing apart from our own, is what creates all the gray areas. 'obvious' is a very grey area,,,,outside of specific and controlled environments and circumstances,, I still say religion has made it gray where it needn't be. We all have a moral conscience. Now whether we listen to it or not is another matter, but we don't need a book or anything else to dictate it to us. life constantly causes second guessing and doubting of that 'conscience', with or without religion in it |
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Unconditional love does not mean you have to 'like' the person or what the person has become by his or her own choosing. Unconditional love does not mean you have to put up with a person, or abide or accept his bad behavior. Unconditional love is compassion and the sincere hope that person will find happiness and health. It does not require you to hang out with them. Bad behavior is like disease. It is dysfunctional and unbalanced. It is a symptom of the lack of inner love. It is a sign of self hate. Sometimes it is cured or overcome. Sometimes people can change. And who decides what bad behavior is? You say 'bad behavior is like a disease and it's dysfunctional and unbalanced' - how can you say that unless YOU are the one dictating what bad behavior is? In the Christian faith, the individual is the one deciding what behavior is good or bad. For example: MsHarmony says I consider humans much less evolved and wise than God, and I dont feel we were a creation for creations sake but a creation for the sake of glorifying God, being an extension of his love and grace Yet in the past she has also said that she does not force her children to feel that same way. I have to wonder if her children do not believe as she does if she would still love them or if one believed and another did not would she treat them differently? As I said JB - bad behavior can be a subjective social norm or just subjective. there is certainly no IF to ponder here, there are things I believe which my children do not, and I will always love them and encourage them to live healthy , loving lives whether they agree what is healthy and loving, is not a matter that will change that I love them, or that (because of that love) IM always going to root for what I think is their BEST outcome,,, In other words you would not support that child through life's challenges if the challege was a result of something you did not agree with. You will always "root for what" YOU "think is their best outcome" BASED ON WHAT? I can only hope you reply -- based on whatever god wills -- At least then I would totally understand that you have an external locus of control meaning that everything that happens is totally out of your control and it just happens to you (by god's will) so you assume the same is true of others. ?? I actually believe we have choices and those choices have consequences, and when we make choices being aware of the consequences, the consequences are our responsibility I will root for what I think is best for them based upon whatever that means to me,,based upon experience and observation of life and the world around me, why would I root for less than what was best for my children? people seem to paraphrase so poorly in these threads but no, I said nothing about not supporting my kids through challenges, I can support my child by trying to teach them to make good choices, not by just going along with whatever choice they decide upon, and when they do not make a good choice, I will not be a hypocrite who tells them otherwise or acts otherwise, but in our family, that is seperate from being loved, we have never mandated that our choices and activities be cosigned on in order to be loved, I know I am loved and I EXPECT my parents to love GOOD and RIGHT as well, enough to lead me down those paths when I am turned around instead of just smiling at my side as if it is all fine,,, What if they are truly happy, doing what they are doing though? Who are you to say they are wrong? Such as in the case of one loving another man or another woman. If it makes them happy, and it isn't harming them or someone else.......I'm not gonna tell them no. You do that, and you risk alienating them. If they're happy, and in a good place, I say let them be. If things start to go south, you be there for them as you can, but otherwise leave them be to make of their lives what they want. oh, and I also do not tell my grown child yes or no, I allow him his own choices but WHEN ASKED, I am honest about what I think is the wisdom and risk of those choices,,, often times people will alienate from those who dont support them in what they WANT to do,, thats a risk of life, but it shouldnt stop us from being honest with those we love,,, But if what they WANT, isn't hurting them, who are we to judge them? That's my whole point. just defining what is 'hurting them' is a judgment and we are the ones who make it ,,,,even by declaring it isnt 'hurting' them Certain things are obvious though, or at least they should be. All the religion and morality thing apart from our own, is what creates all the gray areas. 'obvious' is a very grey area,,,,outside of specific and controlled environments and circumstances,, I still say religion has made it gray where it needn't be. We all have a moral conscience. Now whether we listen to it or not is another matter, but we don't need a book or anything else to dictate it to us. life constantly causes second guessing and doubting of that 'conscience', with or without religion in it I don't know about that, it's always there guiding us or trying to. But it's us that fail to heed it at times. |
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Unconditional love does not mean you have to 'like' the person or what the person has become by his or her own choosing. Unconditional love does not mean you have to put up with a person, or abide or accept his bad behavior. Unconditional love is compassion and the sincere hope that person will find happiness and health. It does not require you to hang out with them. Bad behavior is like disease. It is dysfunctional and unbalanced. It is a symptom of the lack of inner love. It is a sign of self hate. Sometimes it is cured or overcome. Sometimes people can change. And who decides what bad behavior is? You say 'bad behavior is like a disease and it's dysfunctional and unbalanced' - how can you say that unless YOU are the one dictating what bad behavior is? In the Christian faith, the individual is the one deciding what behavior is good or bad. For example: MsHarmony says I consider humans much less evolved and wise than God, and I dont feel we were a creation for creations sake but a creation for the sake of glorifying God, being an extension of his love and grace Yet in the past she has also said that she does not force her children to feel that same way. I have to wonder if her children do not believe as she does if she would still love them or if one believed and another did not would she treat them differently? As I said JB - bad behavior can be a subjective social norm or just subjective. there is certainly no IF to ponder here, there are things I believe which my children do not, and I will always love them and encourage them to live healthy , loving lives whether they agree what is healthy and loving, is not a matter that will change that I love them, or that (because of that love) IM always going to root for what I think is their BEST outcome,,, In other words you would not support that child through life's challenges if the challege was a result of something you did not agree with. You will always "root for what" YOU "think is their best outcome" BASED ON WHAT? I can only hope you reply -- based on whatever god wills -- At least then I would totally understand that you have an external locus of control meaning that everything that happens is totally out of your control and it just happens to you (by god's will) so you assume the same is true of others. ?? I actually believe we have choices and those choices have consequences, and when we make choices being aware of the consequences, the consequences are our responsibility I will root for what I think is best for them based upon whatever that means to me,,based upon experience and observation of life and the world around me, why would I root for less than what was best for my children? people seem to paraphrase so poorly in these threads but no, I said nothing about not supporting my kids through challenges, I can support my child by trying to teach them to make good choices, not by just going along with whatever choice they decide upon, and when they do not make a good choice, I will not be a hypocrite who tells them otherwise or acts otherwise, but in our family, that is seperate from being loved, we have never mandated that our choices and activities be cosigned on in order to be loved, I know I am loved and I EXPECT my parents to love GOOD and RIGHT as well, enough to lead me down those paths when I am turned around instead of just smiling at my side as if it is all fine,,, What if they are truly happy, doing what they are doing though? Who are you to say they are wrong? Such as in the case of one loving another man or another woman. If it makes them happy, and it isn't harming them or someone else.......I'm not gonna tell them no. You do that, and you risk alienating them. If they're happy, and in a good place, I say let them be. If things start to go south, you be there for them as you can, but otherwise leave them be to make of their lives what they want. oh, and I also do not tell my grown child yes or no, I allow him his own choices but WHEN ASKED, I am honest about what I think is the wisdom and risk of those choices,,, often times people will alienate from those who dont support them in what they WANT to do,, thats a risk of life, but it shouldnt stop us from being honest with those we love,,, But if what they WANT, isn't hurting them, who are we to judge them? That's my whole point. just defining what is 'hurting them' is a judgment and we are the ones who make it ,,,,even by declaring it isnt 'hurting' them Certain things are obvious though, or at least they should be. All the religion and morality thing apart from our own, is what creates all the gray areas. 'obvious' is a very grey area,,,,outside of specific and controlled environments and circumstances,, I still say religion has made it gray where it needn't be. We all have a moral conscience. Now whether we listen to it or not is another matter, but we don't need a book or anything else to dictate it to us. life constantly causes second guessing and doubting of that 'conscience', with or without religion in it I don't know about that, it's always there guiding us or trying to. But it's us that fail to heed it at times. I agree, we fail to listen to the natural voice as opposed to the voice of the world the voice of the world tries to get us to do many things we shouldnt under the disguise of how it 'feels' and legal adulthood/rights |
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Unconditional love does not mean you have to 'like' the person or what the person has become by his or her own choosing. Unconditional love does not mean you have to put up with a person, or abide or accept his bad behavior. Unconditional love is compassion and the sincere hope that person will find happiness and health. It does not require you to hang out with them. Bad behavior is like disease. It is dysfunctional and unbalanced. It is a symptom of the lack of inner love. It is a sign of self hate. Sometimes it is cured or overcome. Sometimes people can change. And who decides what bad behavior is? You say 'bad behavior is like a disease and it's dysfunctional and unbalanced' - how can you say that unless YOU are the one dictating what bad behavior is? In the Christian faith, the individual is the one deciding what behavior is good or bad. For example: MsHarmony says I consider humans much less evolved and wise than God, and I dont feel we were a creation for creations sake but a creation for the sake of glorifying God, being an extension of his love and grace Yet in the past she has also said that she does not force her children to feel that same way. I have to wonder if her children do not believe as she does if she would still love them or if one believed and another did not would she treat them differently? As I said JB - bad behavior can be a subjective social norm or just subjective. there is certainly no IF to ponder here, there are things I believe which my children do not, and I will always love them and encourage them to live healthy , loving lives whether they agree what is healthy and loving, is not a matter that will change that I love them, or that (because of that love) IM always going to root for what I think is their BEST outcome,,, In other words you would not support that child through life's challenges if the challege was a result of something you did not agree with. You will always "root for what" YOU "think is their best outcome" BASED ON WHAT? I can only hope you reply -- based on whatever god wills -- At least then I would totally understand that you have an external locus of control meaning that everything that happens is totally out of your control and it just happens to you (by god's will) so you assume the same is true of others. ?? I actually believe we have choices and those choices have consequences, and when we make choices being aware of the consequences, the consequences are our responsibility I will root for what I think is best for them based upon whatever that means to me,,based upon experience and observation of life and the world around me, why would I root for less than what was best for my children? people seem to paraphrase so poorly in these threads but no, I said nothing about not supporting my kids through challenges, I can support my child by trying to teach them to make good choices, not by just going along with whatever choice they decide upon, and when they do not make a good choice, I will not be a hypocrite who tells them otherwise or acts otherwise, but in our family, that is seperate from being loved, we have never mandated that our choices and activities be cosigned on in order to be loved, I know I am loved and I EXPECT my parents to love GOOD and RIGHT as well, enough to lead me down those paths when I am turned around instead of just smiling at my side as if it is all fine,,, What if they are truly happy, doing what they are doing though? Who are you to say they are wrong? Such as in the case of one loving another man or another woman. If it makes them happy, and it isn't harming them or someone else.......I'm not gonna tell them no. You do that, and you risk alienating them. If they're happy, and in a good place, I say let them be. If things start to go south, you be there for them as you can, but otherwise leave them be to make of their lives what they want. oh, and I also do not tell my grown child yes or no, I allow him his own choices but WHEN ASKED, I am honest about what I think is the wisdom and risk of those choices,,, often times people will alienate from those who dont support them in what they WANT to do,, thats a risk of life, but it shouldnt stop us from being honest with those we love,,, But if what they WANT, isn't hurting them, who are we to judge them? That's my whole point. just defining what is 'hurting them' is a judgment and we are the ones who make it ,,,,even by declaring it isnt 'hurting' them Certain things are obvious though, or at least they should be. All the religion and morality thing apart from our own, is what creates all the gray areas. 'obvious' is a very grey area,,,,outside of specific and controlled environments and circumstances,, I still say religion has made it gray where it needn't be. We all have a moral conscience. Now whether we listen to it or not is another matter, but we don't need a book or anything else to dictate it to us. life constantly causes second guessing and doubting of that 'conscience', with or without religion in it I don't know about that, it's always there guiding us or trying to. But it's us that fail to heed it at times. I agree, we fail to listen to the natural voice as opposed to the voice of the world the voice of the world tries to get us to do many things we shouldnt under the disguise of how it 'feels' and legal adulthood/rights You're assuming that Christianity in essence is that voice though, but I don't think that's the case. |
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Unconditional love does not mean you have to 'like' the person or what the person has become by his or her own choosing. Unconditional love does not mean you have to put up with a person, or abide or accept his bad behavior. Unconditional love is compassion and the sincere hope that person will find happiness and health. It does not require you to hang out with them. Bad behavior is like disease. It is dysfunctional and unbalanced. It is a symptom of the lack of inner love. It is a sign of self hate. Sometimes it is cured or overcome. Sometimes people can change. And who decides what bad behavior is? You say 'bad behavior is like a disease and it's dysfunctional and unbalanced' - how can you say that unless YOU are the one dictating what bad behavior is? In the Christian faith, the individual is the one deciding what behavior is good or bad. For example: MsHarmony says I consider humans much less evolved and wise than God, and I dont feel we were a creation for creations sake but a creation for the sake of glorifying God, being an extension of his love and grace Yet in the past she has also said that she does not force her children to feel that same way. I have to wonder if her children do not believe as she does if she would still love them or if one believed and another did not would she treat them differently? As I said JB - bad behavior can be a subjective social norm or just subjective. there is certainly no IF to ponder here, there are things I believe which my children do not, and I will always love them and encourage them to live healthy , loving lives whether they agree what is healthy and loving, is not a matter that will change that I love them, or that (because of that love) IM always going to root for what I think is their BEST outcome,,, In other words you would not support that child through life's challenges if the challege was a result of something you did not agree with. You will always "root for what" YOU "think is their best outcome" BASED ON WHAT? I can only hope you reply -- based on whatever god wills -- At least then I would totally understand that you have an external locus of control meaning that everything that happens is totally out of your control and it just happens to you (by god's will) so you assume the same is true of others. ?? I actually believe we have choices and those choices have consequences, and when we make choices being aware of the consequences, the consequences are our responsibility I will root for what I think is best for them based upon whatever that means to me,,based upon experience and observation of life and the world around me, why would I root for less than what was best for my children? people seem to paraphrase so poorly in these threads but no, I said nothing about not supporting my kids through challenges, I can support my child by trying to teach them to make good choices, not by just going along with whatever choice they decide upon, and when they do not make a good choice, I will not be a hypocrite who tells them otherwise or acts otherwise, but in our family, that is seperate from being loved, we have never mandated that our choices and activities be cosigned on in order to be loved, I know I am loved and I EXPECT my parents to love GOOD and RIGHT as well, enough to lead me down those paths when I am turned around instead of just smiling at my side as if it is all fine,,, What if they are truly happy, doing what they are doing though? Who are you to say they are wrong? Such as in the case of one loving another man or another woman. If it makes them happy, and it isn't harming them or someone else.......I'm not gonna tell them no. You do that, and you risk alienating them. If they're happy, and in a good place, I say let them be. If things start to go south, you be there for them as you can, but otherwise leave them be to make of their lives what they want. oh, and I also do not tell my grown child yes or no, I allow him his own choices but WHEN ASKED, I am honest about what I think is the wisdom and risk of those choices,,, often times people will alienate from those who dont support them in what they WANT to do,, thats a risk of life, but it shouldnt stop us from being honest with those we love,,, But if what they WANT, isn't hurting them, who are we to judge them? That's my whole point. just defining what is 'hurting them' is a judgment and we are the ones who make it ,,,,even by declaring it isnt 'hurting' them Certain things are obvious though, or at least they should be. All the religion and morality thing apart from our own, is what creates all the gray areas. 'obvious' is a very grey area,,,,outside of specific and controlled environments and circumstances,, I still say religion has made it gray where it needn't be. We all have a moral conscience. Now whether we listen to it or not is another matter, but we don't need a book or anything else to dictate it to us. life constantly causes second guessing and doubting of that 'conscience', with or without religion in it I don't know about that, it's always there guiding us or trying to. But it's us that fail to heed it at times. I agree, we fail to listen to the natural voice as opposed to the voice of the world the voice of the world tries to get us to do many things we shouldnt under the disguise of how it 'feels' and legal adulthood/rights You're assuming that Christianity in essence is that voice though, but I don't think that's the case. the voice of the world is usually in CONFLICT with the conscience, because the world has motives and agendas besides the SURVIVAL your conscious concerns itself with whether that conscience is God or not, is up to individual belief, |
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To serve God is to attempt to be more godlike and holy yourself and to hold to those best principle which are common among the major religions
of the world. |
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What is interesting is to see cognitive dissonance in action. That a person can in one breath claim to follow gods will, then in another admit they fashion the understanding of that will from internal sources. Every theist thinks god is on there side despite conflicting positions, the sense of ought is claimed to be objective, but then shown to be subjective and never again thought about. To admit that feelings are flawed to base your actions upon but then have nothing better to base gods will upon . . .
My sense of ought is far easier to understand without these contradictions, definition shifting, and double standards thanks! |
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