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| Topic: Watching..... | |
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And women never refer to another woman as "manish"? but because we are NOT men we are women - we are DIFFERENT than men and we do not want to be men (and TBH the androgyny movement gives me a pain sometimes) we have identities as females and wish to thought of as feminine reverse the above for men not all females want to be thought of as feminine I guess and that is their choice but many of us do and certainly most men do not wish to be thought of as feminine, but as predominantly masculine it's not that either gender intends anything negative about the other - in fact many men are fascinated and a little nervous around things very feminine- they get "itchy", as we are different (there I said it) 
thank you being a doctor who someone refers to as pastor because of constant preaching or being a teacher who someone refers to as doctor because of constant health advise is not a statement that any of those groups think the other group is 'less',,, it is just that they recognize certain 'traits' common in those groups just like I may call my son DAD because he tries to be responsible for me,, and I certainly laugh when I say it, but I loved my DAD to death and he was certainly no 'less' than my son Not the same analogy at all. Are you trying to make excuses for the foul? There is no excuse for the misogyny of the males in our society and only women can stand up for themselves and stop it from happening. You are not standing up for yourself and that is sad to me. But you have the right to allow others to degrade you when they do. It is your choice. no one degrades me and honestly no one needs to tell me what my choices are I'd consider it to be more degrading to have someone say that I was mannish because I take pride in my femininity and yes I suppose there can be times when men speak in a derogatory way toward women but usually they do not IME this all makes me curious about where u fins these demon men u speak of???? 
and I have heard plenty of male bashing too on here & IRL - point being that we should not be degrading anyone for any reason - male or female I don't even think men realize the misogyny of this society sometimes. But it is up to women to defend themselves in order to stop it. If they are not willing or are so used to it that they will just keep allowing, ignoring/accepting it, it will never end. Men referring to other men as women meaning it as an insult is insulting to women, there is no way around it. This is not male bashing anyway. It is male awareness for both men and women. If the op witnessed something degrading than the question was answerd by the op themself based on the information given though, it was in no way CLEAR that the intent was to degrade,,, |
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hmmm I'm not insulted at all regarding the OP. I know who I am and comments like that have no effect on me. Just like people that want to make Christian, redneck or Texas jokes or comments. I know who I am, plain and simple.
As far as the reverse about women calling other women masculine names or whatever...IMO it's the exact same thing as the men calling men girly. If women want to be equals with men, then it's the same thing. Other wise it's setting things up for a double standard. |
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Sometimes a joke is just a joke.
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Sometimes a joke is just a joke. But degrading jokes are not just jokes no matter who they are degrading. |
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I was watching one of those manly films and I realized something while watching the manly commiseration. Do men and women realize that when men jokingly insult each other by referring to each other as women (ladies, schoolgirls, etc..), they are insulting women in the process? So how can these men think highly of women if they do this? I mean at least a subconscious level they do not believe women are equal to men or they wouldn't consider it insulting to be called such. Food for thought...... that is not necessarily a correct statement equality is not measured in ability but in respect i am not as good as a major league ball player...so if one of them say you play like adj4u they may be right... but that does not mean they think they are superior as a human in general just a thought but hey what do i know Robin, noone spoke of ability here. Men referring to each other as "ladies" to jokingly raze each other is degrading to women. It shows the men consider "ladies" to be less than themselves otherwise it wouldn't be a raze. Get it? |
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This would be a throw back from the men of old. Passing it down generation to generation.
Men did consider women less than themselves and it has shown itself in a lot of different ways. Women become accustom to it and just over look it but if they keep doing so the message is that women do not care if they are considered less so lets pay them less, lets give them less individual control in relationships, etc... If a person doesn't have the esteem to stand up for themselves even when it is tradition, then they deserve what they get, right? I for one will not allow ANYONE to mistreat me at any level. And I truly do wish more women would do the same so we can have equal pay and equality for real. |
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I dont care if Im considered different from a man.
If the context of a statement is to insult, than it is insulting. Not every statement where a member of one group compares another member to a member of a different group has the context of an insult though. I stand up for myself fine, there are laws already against paying a woman less than a man(for LITERALLY the same job at the same place) but statistics will continue to show that on AVERAGE(across different companies, and averaging the pay for that position) women still make less. There are things that make us different but not better or worse than each other. WE reflect those observations daily in phrases like 'he/she hit her like she was a man' - because we generally recognize that men are physically stronger(on average) 'he cried like a baby' -because we generally recognize that babies are known to cry 'he cried like a woman' -because we generally recognize that women tend to be more temperamental in nature(particularly during menstruation' ,,,and the list goes on and on , its not an automatic insult to aknowledge that we have differences(on average), just like we recognize that women get lesser pay (on average) |
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Just like there is no "context" to consider in men insulting each other by referring to themselves as women. When they are training for football and they refer to the team as ladies they mean they are the scum of the earth in training to be better. In the service when they refer to the squad as a bunch of school girls they mean they are the scum of the earth in training to be something better. When they refer to each other as ladies when they are together it is an insult even when joking. It shows that at some level in their minds women are less than them. Otherwise they would not insult each other with those words. Yeah...some stupid fellows are there whose level of thinking is too poor.They considers there own mother & sisters too as inferior. |
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I dont care if Im considered different from a man. If the context of a statement is to insult, than it is insulting. Not every statement where a member of one group compares another member to a member of a different group has the context of an insult though. I stand up for myself fine, there are laws already against paying a woman less than a man(for LITERALLY the same job at the same place) but statistics will continue to show that on AVERAGE(across different companies, and averaging the pay for that position) women still make less. There are things that make us different but not better or worse than each other. WE reflect those observations daily in phrases like 'he/she hit her like she was a man' - because we generally recognize that men are physically stronger(on average) 'he cried like a baby' -because we generally recognize that babies are known to cry 'he cried like a woman' -because we generally recognize that women tend to be more temperamental in nature(particularly during menstruation' ,,,and the list goes on and on , its not an automatic insult to aknowledge that we have differences(on average), just like we recognize that women get lesser pay (on average) Okay so I am still tired of this but.... Not an accurate analogy of again of what I was talking about. They referred to each other as ladies or schoolgirls because it was a raze, raze means a joking insult.... So it is an insult for them to be considered a lady which then translates to they consider ladies less then men or at least worse then men otherwise it would not be an insult ie raze ie joking insult. I understand you consider yourself less than a man, we already went through this. You have the right to it. You could stay on task with what the OP is about though for real. You refuse to understand and you want to make some point that is irrelevant to my OP. Very frustrating indeed. |
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Just like there is no "context" to consider in men insulting each other by referring to themselves as women. When they are training for football and they refer to the team as ladies they mean they are the scum of the earth in training to be better. In the service when they refer to the squad as a bunch of school girls they mean they are the scum of the earth in training to be something better. When they refer to each other as ladies when they are together it is an insult even when joking. It shows that at some level in their minds women are less than them. Otherwise they would not insult each other with those words. Yeah...some stupid fellows are there whose level of thinking is too poor.They considers there own mother & sisters too as inferior. Thank you for posting 
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I dont care if Im considered different from a man. If the context of a statement is to insult, than it is insulting. Not every statement where a member of one group compares another member to a member of a different group has the context of an insult though. I stand up for myself fine, there are laws already against paying a woman less than a man(for LITERALLY the same job at the same place) but statistics will continue to show that on AVERAGE(across different companies, and averaging the pay for that position) women still make less. There are things that make us different but not better or worse than each other. WE reflect those observations daily in phrases like 'he/she hit her like she was a man' - because we generally recognize that men are physically stronger(on average) 'he cried like a baby' -because we generally recognize that babies are known to cry 'he cried like a woman' -because we generally recognize that women tend to be more temperamental in nature(particularly during menstruation' ,,,and the list goes on and on , its not an automatic insult to aknowledge that we have differences(on average), just like we recognize that women get lesser pay (on average) Okay so I am still tired of this but.... Not an accurate analogy of again of what I was talking about. They referred to each other as ladies or schoolgirls because it was a raze, raze means a joking insult.... So it is an insult for them to be considered a lady which then translates to they consider ladies less then men or at least worse then men otherwise it would not be an insult ie raze ie joking insult. I understand you consider yourself less than a man, we already went through this. You have the right to it. You could stay on task with what the OP is about though for real. You refuse to understand and you want to make some point that is irrelevant to my OP. Very frustrating indeed. whats frustrating is to be asked a question someone has already decided the answer to so if the op witnessed someone insulting women,, theres no need for further discussion,,, |
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I dont care if Im considered different from a man. If the context of a statement is to insult, than it is insulting. Not every statement where a member of one group compares another member to a member of a different group has the context of an insult though. I stand up for myself fine, there are laws already against paying a woman less than a man(for LITERALLY the same job at the same place) but statistics will continue to show that on AVERAGE(across different companies, and averaging the pay for that position) women still make less. There are things that make us different but not better or worse than each other. WE reflect those observations daily in phrases like 'he/she hit her like she was a man' - because we generally recognize that men are physically stronger(on average) 'he cried like a baby' -because we generally recognize that babies are known to cry 'he cried like a woman' -because we generally recognize that women tend to be more temperamental in nature(particularly during menstruation' ,,,and the list goes on and on , its not an automatic insult to aknowledge that we have differences(on average), just like we recognize that women get lesser pay (on average) Okay so I am still tired of this but.... Not an accurate analogy of again of what I was talking about. They referred to each other as ladies or schoolgirls because it was a raze, raze means a joking insult.... So it is an insult for them to be considered a lady which then translates to they consider ladies less then men or at least worse then men otherwise it would not be an insult ie raze ie joking insult. I understand you consider yourself less than a man, we already went through this. You have the right to it. You could stay on task with what the OP is about though for real. You refuse to understand and you want to make some point that is irrelevant to my OP. Very frustrating indeed. also frustrating is the constant repetition of false information, I no more feel less than a man than I feel less 'evolved' than a non believer |
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Harmony, you frustrate the hell out of me sometimes but you are still alright by me.
I did not mean to stop you from your answer. So sorry for that. It appeared you were not understanding the OP at all. Please carry on with your thoughts. |
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ITs all good. I didnt witness the exchange in question.
Just making the point that men and women DO have bio chemical and biological differences which explain different traits(on average). And that pointing out(and even laughing) about someone having any of those traits doesnt mean one finds anyone less than anyone else. Although they may consider the TRAIT to be undesirable. Noone is perfect and we all do have undesirable traits,,whatever our gender. That makes us equally human not 'less/more' than. |
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ITs all good. I didnt witness the exchange in question. Just making the point that men and women DO have bio chemical and biological differences which explain different traits(on average). And that pointing out(and even laughing) about someone having any of those traits doesnt mean one finds anyone less than anyone else. Although they may consider the TRAIT to be undesirable. Noone is perfect and we all do have undesirable traits,,whatever our gender. That makes us equally human not 'less/more' than. Okay but in this case it is not a trait per se it is the whole enchilada so to speak. Calling themselves ladies as a razing insult shows they consider ladies in general less/worse then men, right? |
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ITs all good. I didnt witness the exchange in question. Just making the point that men and women DO have bio chemical and biological differences which explain different traits(on average). And that pointing out(and even laughing) about someone having any of those traits doesnt mean one finds anyone less than anyone else. Although they may consider the TRAIT to be undesirable. Noone is perfect and we all do have undesirable traits,,whatever our gender. That makes us equally human not 'less/more' than. Okay but in this case it is not a trait per se it is the whole enchilada so to speak. Calling themselves ladies as a razing insult shows they consider ladies in general less/worse then men, right? If it is meant to put down the gender on a whole, yes if it is meant to put down a TRAIT of that gender,, no |
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Edited by
Dragoness
on
Fri 08/26/11 12:59 PM
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ITs all good. I didnt witness the exchange in question. Just making the point that men and women DO have bio chemical and biological differences which explain different traits(on average). And that pointing out(and even laughing) about someone having any of those traits doesnt mean one finds anyone less than anyone else. Although they may consider the TRAIT to be undesirable. Noone is perfect and we all do have undesirable traits,,whatever our gender. That makes us equally human not 'less/more' than. Okay but in this case it is not a trait per se it is the whole enchilada so to speak. Calling themselves ladies as a razing insult shows they consider ladies in general less/worse then men, right? If it is meant to put down the gender on a whole, yes if it is meant to put down a TRAIT of that gender,, no Well and trait should actually say "not necessarily" for those cases like the examples you gave. But a certain trait could be insulting if it referenced say our private parts or something along those lines. maybe. My point here is that I have heard this all my life and it never occurred to me that it was derogatory to women until I watched the movie and it hit me suddenly. We have been subjected to this type of denigration all this time and have been so used to it that we just let it fly by, which is always a way to perpetuate negative treatment and negative stereotyping. |
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I can understand how that happens sometimes when people have become accustomed to a certain standard.
I was brought up with four older brothers and a father who protected and cherished me, which set my standard for how 'men' should behave towards women if they claim to love them. I think that this standard also kept me from having any problem telling the difference between someone insulting women and someone making a joke about a feminine trait and I know I have never had a problem defending myself or demaning respect from any male OR female my life caused me to have to deal with. |
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I was watching one of those manly films and I realized something while watching the manly commiseration. Do men and women realize that when men jokingly insult each other by referring to each other as women (ladies, schoolgirls, etc..), they are insulting women in the process? So how can these men think highly of women if they do this? I mean at least a subconscious level they do not believe women are equal to men or they wouldn't consider it insulting to be called such. Food for thought...... that is not necessarily a correct statement equality is not measured in ability but in respect i am not as good as a major league ball player...so if one of them say you play like adj4u they may be right... but that does not mean they think they are superior as a human in general just a thought but hey what do i know Robin, noone spoke of ability here. Men referring to each other as "ladies" to jokingly raze each other is degrading to women. It shows the men consider "ladies" to be less than themselves otherwise it wouldn't be a raze. Get it? how do u know they mean it in a degrading manner IF they are not speaking about abilities all the times i remember that reference b n used in movies it is in an ability sense and how do you know the person that is saying it means it in a degrading manner if no reference to another issue is made maybe that person holds ladies school girls and the like in high regard after all it is ladies and children first(school girls are children right) and is it not looked upon as a worse tragedy when a female gender goes through a tragedy than a male gender going through same tragedy maybe the insult comes from ones self esteem rather than the statement something to think about but hey what do i know |
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Wow! 4 pages in 24 hours.
Cool |
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