................."Jesus Christ is not God"........................

By Jonathan Weingarten



Oooooh, I know the title of this article will cause a fluster. I

know the Jehovah’s Witnesses are probably scratching their heads

saying what in the world is this Trinitarian saying???1 And my

brothers and sisters who are born of the Spirit may have thought I

went into heresy. Rest assured everyone, for what I would like to

attempt to do is to kind of get inside of the heads of people and

hopefully clarify the issue of the meaning of this statement as a

Jehovah’s Witness (JW) understands it and as a Christian

understands it.



Jesus and the Father

From the many conversations I've had with JWs, a typical exchange

will go as follows: The JW will point out that Jesus and the Father

are two distinct Persons and since the Watchtower (WT)2 has taught

the JW that God = Father only, Jesus could not be God because the JW

knows they are two distinct Persons and the Father is not the Son

and vice versa.



When a JW points out the distinctions between the Persons they think

they have disproved the Trinity (which actually they really

haven't, UNLESS the person they are talking with knows nothing

concerning what they believe and why they believe it. Sadly, this is

the case most of the time.) After the Christian hears the JW SAY

that Jesus Christ is not God, immediately the Christian will point

to a dozen or more verses that explicitly say that He is God. To the

Christian’s amazement all of these verses bounce right off the JW as

if he didn't even hear them at all. Why is this???



I believe it's because every time the Christian shows a JW

Scriptures that blatantly say Jesus Christ is Jehovah the JW thinks

the Christian is trying to prove Jesus is the Father, and if there

is one thing the JW knows for sure it is that Jesus Christ is not

God the Father and therefore that Scripture can not mean what it

says.


And so the conversation goes on with the JW pointing to Scriptures

that identify the distinction between the two Persons, especially

ones that say Jesus is the "Son of God" and with the Christian

pointing to Scriptures that say Jesus Christ is not only the Son of

God, but He Himself is also God as well. And many times both

persons leave each other in frustration thinking one did not get


through to the other.



Here is something that is EXTREMELY IMPORTANT for the JW to

understand. When a born again Christian points to Scriptures that

demonstrate Jesus is God, THEY ARE NOT TRYING TO PROVE THAT JESUS

IS GOD THE FATHER. LET ME REPEAT THAT.



WHEN A BORN AGAIN BIBLE BELIEVING CHRISTIAN IS DEMONSTRATING FROM

SCRIPTURE THAT JESUS IS GOD, THEY ARE NOT TRYING TO PROVE THAT JESUS

IS GOD THE FATHER.



JWs may be surprised to find out that born again Christians believe

the Father and the Son are two separate and distinct Persons. The

reason I say they may be surprised is because I have read all the WT

arguments against the Trinity and these arguments are not arguments

against the Trinity but against an age old heresy called modalism or

monarchianism, which Trinitarians also reject.



To be clear, the teaching of modalism/ monarchianism is that the

Father and the Son are one and the same Person. This is what the WT

(WT stands for watchtower , the publication by JW)

teaches the JW that the Trinity is. How do I know? I have numerous

books and articles by the WT including their latest CD ROM and have

studied their arguments inside and out.



Here is something EXTREMELY IMPORTANT for the born again Christian

to understand. If you are trying to show a JW from the Bible that

Jesus Christ is God, YOU MUST MAKE IT EXTREMELY CLEAR THAT YOU ARE

NOT TRYING TO PROVE JESUS IS GOD THE FATHER, BUT THAT JESUS TRULY

POSSESSES THE NATURE OF DEITY (which very simply is a synonym for

God). Born again Christians believe in the Deity of Jesus Christ

whereas JWs do not.


Where JWs and Christians truly part in doctrine IS NOT over the

distinction of the Persons, but in the nature of Christ Himself. If

we can make it past the smokescreen the WT has thrown up concerning

the fact that we truly believe the Father and the Son are two

distinct Persons, we can then look at the issues that truly divide

us.



Motivations and Clarifications

I do believe we are all here to share our faith because we are

motivated to see the salvation of each other’s soul and that one

party would like to see the other party receive eternal life

whether it be the JW for the Christian or the Christian for the JW.

The JW believes the Christian is not saved because they are not

associated with the "faithful and discreet slave."3 The Christian

believes the JW is not saved because they have received the wrong

Jesus and are not born of God.



Before I continue, there is one thing that comes to mind and why

this is so important. If the WT is right and I die not having been

associated with the "faithful and discreet slave" I will go into

soul sleep and will sleep for eternity.



If the Christian is right and the JW dies unsaved, he will spend

eternity in a place of eternal punishment or torment where there is

weeping and gnashing of teeth, where the worm dies not and the fire

is not quenched. Before one begins to scoff at this statement

please read the entire article then answer. My goal in this article

is to bring order out of confusion and clarity where there is

misconception.



This one statement "Jesus Christ is not God" is both absolute truth

and absolute heresy depending on how you define the word "God."



What I would like to do is to try to explain how a JW believes this

statement and how the WT defines God for the JW and how a

Trinitarian believes this statement and how he defines the word God

as he reads it in the Word.



The JW has been taught and believes that the word God (capital G) is

expressly reserved for the Father. I have found in my conversations

with JWs and also from reading quite a bit of their literature that

they teach God = the Father alone. Therefore when I or any of my

brothers or sisters say Jesus is God, in the mind of a JW they

think we are saying that Jesus is the Father when indeed we are not!



To say Jesus is God the Father is the age old heresy

called "Modalism" of which more than a few of the early church

fathers disputed as heresy, especially Tertullian. Modalism is the

belief that Jesus and the Father are the same Person and that there

is no distinction between the Persons.



One such church that does teach this heresy is the UPC church or the

United Pentecostalist Church (which should not be confused with all

the rest of the Pentecostalist Churches which teach orthodox

Trinitarianism). So actually if a Trinitarian were in a debate with

a UPC member, the JW would side with the Trinitarian in the fact

that the orthodox Trinitarian believes that Jesus and the Father

are two distinct Persons.



When Jesus prayed, he prayed to the Father. While Jesus walked the

earth it was the Father who said, "This is My beloved Son in whom I

am well pleased" (Matt 3:17). Also the Father held a greater

position than the Son; hence, Jesus can rightfully say, "The Father

is greater than I" (John 14:28). I would also like to point out

that after He emptied Himself (Phil 2:7), He was also made lower

than the angels (Heb 2:7,9).



Orthodox Trinitarians do not believe Jesus and the Father are the

same Person though the WT repeatedly teaches its followers this is

the case. When a JW shows a person that Jesus and the Father are

not the same Person they think they have disproved the teaching of

the Trinity. This is one of the single greatest deceptions of the

WT. The WT teaches its adherents that we believe Jesus and the

Father are the same Person.



To verify what I'm saying, all one needs to do is simply turn to

just about any WT literature and examine how they represent our

belief. For example, turn to page 39 of the book You Can Live

Forever in Paradise on Earth (which is zealously "placed" by JWs to

try to prove their doctrine) to see the kind of logic I'm talking

about.4



Right under the picture of Jesus in the bottom left hand corner is

the statement "Since Jesus prayed to God, asking that God's will,

not his, be done, the two could not be the same person."



This is a true statement; however, it does not disprove the doctrine

of the Trinity by a long shot. The WT thinks that by pointing out

that they are not the same Person they have disproved the Trinity.

I can't begin to believe how many individuals have fallen for this

one deception right here.



Another example of this deceptive logic is when on the same page

they make another statement like, "If Jesus were the Almighty God,

he would not have prayed to himself, would he? In fact, following

Jesus' death, the Scripture says: ‘This Jesus God resurrected.’

(Acts 2:32) Thus the Almighty God (The Father) and Jesus are

clearly two separate Persons."



As I have already pointed out, this deceptive logic does not

disprove the Trinity; but as we shall see rather confirms it. I

have previously stated that orthodox Trinitarians already believe

the Father and the Son are clearly two separate Persons.



God = Deity

So we see the WT defines God as one Person only. God = Father

according to the WT. If a person were to take an unbiased look at

how the Bible uses the word God, Jehovah, Almighty God, or any of

the titles applied to the Father, they would clearly see that these

same names and titles are applied to Jesus Christ as well. Because

when we read the Scriptures in an unbiased manner we find that the

word God = Deity.



The Father is called God because He possesses the divine nature.

When a Christian says the Father is God, He is saying the Father is

truly Deity. One who possesses the divine nature. When a Christian

says Jesus is God, He is saying Jesus Christ is Deity.



This statement means Jesus Christ possesses the divine nature and is

of equal substance with the Father. Hence, orthodox Christians

believe not only that Jesus and the Father are two distinct Persons

but we also believe in the Deity of the Father and also in the

Deity of Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father.



So when a JW says Jesus Christ is not God and means it in the sense

that Jesus Christ is not God the Father "IDENTIFYING THE PERSON" of

the Father, we stand in agreement. We agree Jesus Christ is not God

the Father.



However, when a JW says Jesus Christ is not God in the sense that

Jesus Christ is not Deity or truly and intrinsically does not

possess the divine nature, this is heresy. Because to believe Jesus

Christ is not Deity or does not possess the divine nature is to

reject, ignore, or outright close your eyes to multitudes of

Scriptures. I repeat MULTITUDES.



If the Bible used the word God in the limited sense the WT does they

would have a case. The truth is, it does not and we are not to

define God the way the WT does or any religion. We are to define the

word the way God uses it in the Bible. If any open minded logically

thinking person has read at least a little bit of the Bible, he

would definitely know that the Scriptures emphatically call Jesus

Christ God.



Now we know that Jesus and the Father are two distinct Persons. So

when the Bible calls Him God, we know the New Testament is not

calling Him the Father but is indeed ascribing the title of God to

Jesus Christ because He does possess the divine nature.



John 1:1,2 is clearly one example of the Bible calling Jesus "God"

and is totally a Trinitarian statement.



Here is a loose paraphrase insofar as my studies in the Greek, "1)

In the beginning (or in the origin of time), the Word already was

existing—and the Word was with (face to face as an equal with) God

the Father, and the Word Himself was Deity, just as the Father is

Deity. 2) He was present originally with God the Father."



John makes another very emphatic statement concerning the Deity of

the Son in his first epistle, "And we know that the Son of God has

come and has given us an understanding, that we may know Him who is

true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This

is the true God and eternal life" (1John 5:20).



Concerning whether Jesus Christ is God (capital G) as the Bible and

the Scriptures use the word there is no doubt (see, for instance:

Gen 19:24; Ps 45:7; Isa 7:14; 9:6; Jer 23:5,6; Zech 2:10-3:2;

12:10; Matt 1:22,23; John 1:1; 5:18; 20:28; Acts 20:28; Rom 8:9;

9:5; Phil 2:5-9; Col 2:9; 1Tim 3:16; Titus 2:13; Heb 1:3,8,9; 2Pet

1:1; 1John 5:20).



We as Christians are not asking the JWs to believe anything contrary

to Scripture; we would just try to persuade you to believe ALL the

Scriptures and not just the ones that seem to agree with you. And

we would like that you use the title "God" as the Scriptures do. If

the apostles call Him God and He himself claimed to be so, are you

saying they are wrong as well as we?



Importance


The thing that makes this so important is one’s salvation and where

that person will spend eternity. Your belief of this one doctrine is

so vitally important to your salvation. Why do I say this??? It is

not the Lordship of the Father that a person must receive in their

life. There are many other religions who worship the God of heaven

and only acknowledge the Lordship of the Father and reject the

Lordship of the Son. When I use the word Lordship, I mean

acknowledging His Deity.



The Person of the Godhead you have got to make your Lord and the God

of your life is Jesus Christ the Son of God. It is only through Him

that you will receive salvation. Making the Father your God will

not gain you eternal life. Jews and Muslims have made the God and

Father of the Lord Jesus Christ their God, yet they do not possess

eternal life.



Why is this??? Because as John tells us in the fifth chapter of his

first epistle:


10) He who believes in the Son of God has the witness in himself; he

who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not

believed the testimony that God has given of His Son. 11) And this

is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life

is in His Son….



20) And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us an

understanding, that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him

who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and

eternal life. 21) Little children, keep yourselves from idols [false

gods]. Amen.

In addition, Paul declares, "looking for the blessed hope and

glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ" (Titus

2:13).



And Peter writes, "Simon Peter, a bondservant and apostle of Jesus

Christ, To those who have obtained like precious faith with us by

the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ" (2Peter 1:1).



Have you received Him as your God and Savior? Has His Spirit renewed

your heart making you a child and heir of God? If not, then you are

not saved (John 1:12; Rom 8:9; 2Cor 13:5).



Paradise Book


In light of what has been covered in this article, let us examine

the pages I quoted before from the WT’s Paradise book with the

knowledge we now have and, of course, with a few comments from

yours truly. The quotes are taken from pages 39-40 in a chapter

titled, "God—Who Is He?" under the subtitle of "Is God Jesus or a

Trinity?"



Paradise: Who is this wonderful God? Some persons say his name is

Jesus. Others say he is a Trinity, although the word "trinity" does

not appear in the Bible.



Comment: This argument holds not water for neither does the

word "Theocratic."5 Just because a word is not used in the Bible

does not mean the doctrine is not taught.



Paradise: According to the teaching of the Trinity, there are three

Persons in one God, that is, there is "one God, Father, Son and

Holy Spirit."



Comment: Amen. Three distinct Persons who are "one" (Hebrew, echod)

in unity (Deut 6:4). One of the only times in the history of the WT

that they have defined my belief correctly; but they quickly

confuse the teaching in the mind of the reader just two sentences

away. Watch!


Paradise: Many religious organizations teach this, even though they

admit it is "a mystery."



Comment: After studying the doctrine, it really is not such a

mystery.


Paradise: Are such views of God correct? Well, did Jesus ever say

that he was God?



Comment: Here they go! Remember, how do you define the word God???

Did Jesus ever say He was God the Father??? In agreement with the

WT we would say NO; but as we have seen the WT does not use the

word God the way the Bible does. Now, did Jesus ever say He was

God, not in the sense that He's the Father but in the way the Bible

uses the word God? Emphatically Yes! If anyone would like to have

an intelligent discussion on John 8:58 please oblige me, for it was

He who saw Abraham in Genesis chapter 18.



Paradise: No, he never did. Rather, in the Bible he is

called "God's Son." And he said: "The Father is greater than I am."

(John 10:34-36; 14:28) Also, Jesus explained that there were some

things that neither he nor the angels knew but that only God knew.

(Mark 13:32)



Comment: You see, here is the WT pointing out the distinction

between the Persons. They are not making a case against the Deity

of Christ but against MODALISM/ MONARCHIANISM which rejects the

distinction between the Persons.



Paradise: Further, on one occasion Jesus prayed to God,

saying: "Let, not my will, but yours take place." (Luke 22:42) If

Jesus were the Almighty God, he would not have prayed to himself,

would he? In fact, following Jesus' death, the Scripture

says: "This Jesus God resurrected." (Acts 2:32) Thus the Almighty

God and Jesus are clearly two separate persons.



Comment: As we have seen, distinguishing between the Persons does

not disprove anything. The WT does this again and again and again

and again in all their publications. This is truly sad for those

who have been duped into believing that born again Christians

believe the Father and the Son are the same Person. JWs are being

deceived and they're not even aware of it.



Paradise: Even after his death and resurrection and ascension to

heaven, Jesus was still not equal to his Father.—1 Corinthians 11:3;

15:28.



Comment: Here the WT is displaying it's true ignorance and

misunderstanding. Let's take a peek at these two passages of

Scripture they are referencing:



11:3: But I want you to know that the head of every man is Christ,

the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.



15:28: Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son

Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him,

that God may be all in all.



The WT's quotation of these passages demonstrates another

misconception. The WT can not understand how someone can be subject

to another and yet be equal. Let's look at the illustration from

Scripture. God the Father is the head of Christ just as man is the

head of the woman. I am married now for 10 years. I am the head of

my household.



I hold a higher position in my household because God appointed it

so. I am by virtue of my position greater than my wife. The

president of the United States is by virtue of his office greater

in position than you or I. He is the head of this country.



While I am greater than my wife in position and I am her head I am

not BETTER than her concerning our nature. Concerning our nature,

power, and authority over our household WE ARE EQUAL. We are both

human and my wife is equal with me in authority and power over my

two children. The president while greater in position is not better

than you or I. He is a human being just like the rest of us.



The WT has not grasped this basic concept and the fact that while

someone can be our head whether it be the head of the house or the

head of the country they at the same time can be our equal. Yes, God

the Father is the head of Christ; yet Christ is the Father’s EQUAL

concerning their nature or substance, power, and authority. The

Scriptures explicitly state this in John 5:18; 10:22-39; Phil 2:6;

etc. Is this starting to make sense yet???



Paradise: "But isn't Jesus called a god in the Bible?" someone may

ask.

Comment: NEVER IS HE CALLED A GOD IN THE BIBLE, NOT ONCE, THIS

WOULD BE THE INTRODUCTION OF POLYTHEISM. The definition of

Polytheism is to place your faith in more than one god.



Paradise: This is true. Yet Satan is also called a god. (2

Corinthians 4:4)

Comment: What blasphemy, to place Satan's Creator (Col 1:17) on a

par with him, how insulting to Jesus.


Paradise: At John 1:1, which refers to Jesus as "the Word," some

Bible translations say: "In the beginning was the Word, and the

Word was with God, and the Word was God."



Comment: Actually, every single recognized Bible translation

throughout the world. Only one or two corrupt ones state "a god"

which breaks the laws of New Testament Greek grammar.6



Paradise: But notice, at verse 2 says that the Word was "in the

beginning with God." And while men have seen Jesus, verse 18 says

that "no man hath seen God at any time."



Comment: If they had quoted the rest of this verse it would have

been made clear that John is referring to the Father. This is true

. No man has seen God the Father at any time. Jesus even took it one

step further when He stated "You have neither heard His voice at

any time, nor seen His form" (John 5:37).



Yet throughout the Old Testament we find numerous times when God had

appeared to men, spoke to men, and even ate with them (Gen 18; Exod

24:9-11; 33:11,20). The simple answer to this dilemma is that no man

has seen God the Father just as John states. Who did they see???

God the Son (Isa 6:1; John 12:41).



"Then the LORD [Jehovah - on earth who had talked with Abraham]

rained brimstone and fire on Sodom and Gomorrah, from the LORD

[Jehovah] out of the heavens" (Gen 19:24). Two Persons called

Jehovah in one verse.



Paradise: So we find that some translations of John 1 verse 1 give

the correct idea of the original language when they read: "The Word

was with God, and the Word was divine," or was "a god," that is,

the Word was a powerful godlike one. (An American Translation)

Clearly, Jesus is not Almighty God. In fact, Jesus spoke of his

Father as "my God" and as "the only true God."—John 20:17; 17:3.



Comment: What the WT is failing to mention is that just as the Son

calls the Father God, so does the Father call Jesus God and the

true God and eternal life: Heb 1:8; 1John 5:20.



Conclusion


If you are a JW and have read this, is what I'm saying sinking in???

Please read through this article more than once. Prayerfully read

over it. If there is anything you'd like to discuss please feel

free to ask. The WT has been misleading people long enough.



We who have been born of the Spirit of God invite you to receive the

Spirit of Christ into your heart and become a child of God. We want

you to know what it is to be in the New Covenant and have Jesus

Christ as your personal Mediator and most of all to have Him as your

Lord. To obey Him in every moment of your life and not the rules and

regulations of a religion that consistently changes its stance on

major doctrinal issues affecting peoples very lives.



I do not offer you a religion in place of the WT. What I do offer

you is a personal relationship with the One who said in the first

chapter of the Revelation:



8) "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End," says

the Lord, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty…."

11) "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last …." 12)

Then I turned to see the voice that spoke with me. And having turned

I saw seven golden lampstands, 13) and in the midst of the seven

lampstands One like the Son of Man, clothed with a garment down to

the feet and girded about the chest with a golden band.



http://www.dtl.org/trinity/article/not-god.htm

Do you mean that you think that all good people - even those who
live a Christ-like beautiful life are going to Hell for eternal
damnation just because they do not believe in the Trinity like
Jehovah's Witnesses?

You think that God would torture good and loving and righteous people
just because they don't believe "Jesus is God"?

Do you think that Jesus would scourge just and kind people under any
circumstances?

http://www.towerwatch.com/Witnesses/Beliefs/their_beliefs.htm

when i ponder this question, i often think about a german concentration camp guard at auschwitiz in 1944. he's a devout christian, attends church with his loving family each sunday and donates his share when the collection plate is passed. on this day he is leading jews, among whom is a family, mother, father, daughter, son, into the gas chamber. now here is where it gets confusing to me, the nazi, if he asks forgiveness for his sins after the war, will enjoy raising his children, playing with his grand children and otherwise basking in the warmth we call life. and when that ends he'll ascend to heaven where he'll meet his loved ones. the jewish family on the other hand, not believing precisely as the german that jesus is the son of god, will burn in hell for eternity. that's just sick man.

This is one reason why i am against religion. Even if God, Christianity and Jesus could be proved to me beyond any doubt, i would not want to be a part of it. I'll choose to burn in hell with the Jews and all the other good people there.

if anyone truely know Jesus, he/she will know that he is God.
and i believe john1:1-15 explan it all;
john 1:1 says, in the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God.
Verse 14, (a) and the word was made flesh and dwelt amongs us,
besides that, our God is a loving Father, He always reveal himself to those that seeks him, and worship him in spirit and in truth.

How can someone be righteous if they don't believe Jesus is our God? Jesus is the one whom will judge us, so therefore it is his discretion to what righteous is. Jesus specifically said no one will come to the father but by him.

James 2:16-19

16And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

17Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

18Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

19Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

Very true.

there is nothing good about man!!! and those that are going to heaven, are not going there b'cos of their good works, but b'cos, they believe in the work of grace, through the death of Jesus Christ on the cross.

UNLESS God first DRAW man unto Him, no MAN CAN BE SAVED.

NO MAN!!!

Meaning....it is ONLY thru the power of God first DRAWING man UNTO

Him...and woooing man unto Himself, that man is ever able to be

saved in the first place !!!



Meaning..it is GOD ALONE who SAVES man, and NOT man's doing !!!


God PREPARES every man's heart to RECEIVE Him...and God knows

when every man is truly ready TO receive Him.


God is EVEN able to reach a man on the

back side of a desert, If God has to.


God is also able to reach man in any nation of the world ,

especially where the gospel hasn't been preached there yet.



But mostly, God works thru His body , to reach the UNTOLD.

And the Power of God's WORD is able to bring forth FAITH TO BELIEVE

IN GOD , in the heart of any man,who would first HEAR, and the

RECEIVE that

WORD into his heart.


FAITH comes by Hearing, and Hearing by the Word of God !!!


When God draws man, WHO SHALL REFUSE, excep the coldest heart?



WHEN God is drawng one, the person will feel the CONVICTING

POWER OF GOD in his heart, and WILL receive God.


UNLESS a person were sooooo coldhearted , that the person

would still refuse God when God REPEATEDLY drew him unto

Himself.....

then IN THAT CASE, there would be nothing more God could do

then.


God sends no one to hell......AND FORCES NO MAN TO RECEIVE HIM.


ONCE MORE.....ONLY a person rejecting God, over and

over.....even after God

repeatedly drew that person unto Him, and kept knocking on his

heart's door, only to be refused over and over again .......then

that person refusing God that way, would send Himself to hell.

Not God!!



Btw.....God has already given EACH MAN A MEASURE OF FAITH to

KNOW GOD.


God LOVES us , and would have it that NO man should perish.

Not one.



Hope this helped now.

I know this is just my opinion, but i find it interesting that both top world religions have fear mongering and they are both based off a religion that started the whole crap, that don't even really believe in hell. It's like little kids making up a game, then i try to set new rules mid game and because everyone else don't want to play by these new rules state "either you don't play or get kicked off, don't care how good you are and my gang will beat you up".

Cowboy wrote:






Cowboy,In the scripture above, it states "there

is one God".



Above that scripture, you wrote ,

"How can someone be righteous if they don't believe Jesus is our

God? .........


If you believe Jesus is our God, then whom , according to what

you yourself believe now,is the

"One God" that this

scripture is referring to...

And this is why i seriously feel like i'm becoming more anti-theism, this kind of thinking is baffling, for someone to seriously consider this morally right in this day and age is amazing.

Mykesorrel said it well....
I know this is just my opinion, but i find it interesting that both top world religions have fear mongering and they are both based off a religion that started the whole crap, that don't even really believe in hell. It's like little kids making up a game, then i try to set new rules mid game and because everyone else don't want to play by these new rules state "either you don't play or get kicked off, don't care how good you are and my gang will beat you up".


re-read Morning Song's beginning post.... It is just a rambling of imaginary "truths" all imagined and made up.... the scriptures are...words in a book..nothing more or less, Jesus may or may not have lived, but to make him a god or the god or 1/3 god or whatever is just "unbelievable". And the Jesus followers.. true sheep...just answer the rediculous with..... faith :(

The most incredible aspect of the Jesus myth is that .... in 2011 there are people who still believe it !!!!

what's about age and days? The word of God does not change, the whole world may change, besides, man's unbelieve can not defy the truth.

Godliness, good deeds, righteousness and kindness have no religion.
Atheists, Buddhists, Jews, Muslims, American Indians, Hindus all
can be good without "believing in Jesus". These people do not need
to be "saved". They would never be punished by a loving and just
God such as Jesus.

if you believe the Bible, then understand it.
Jesus is the ONLY way to eternity! Acts4:10-12

if you believe the Bible, then understand it.
Jesus is the ONLY way to eternity! Read. Acts4:10-12

And in this verse it refers to multiple possible gods. It's even one of the 10 commandments. This also is a good verse to clarify what "God" is. Again, God = Authority. That is why Jesus is our God, for he is our lord, for he is our ever lasting father. A "god" does not have to be a person or being of such. A god could be money, if you allow money to have authority over you, and worship it more or less, it is your god. We are to worship one god. We do this through Jesus Christ. So yes, to me there is only one God, and I worship him through Jesus Christ. Money means nothing to me, inanimate objects mean nothing to me. Also got to keep in mind, the father and the son are one. If we do Jesus' will, we do the father's will. We love Jesus, we love the father. Jesus does the will of the father. If we praise Jesus for doing something, we are praising the father for it as well, for it was the father's will we are praising.

“I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. You shall have no other gods before Me.

Also wish to point out a few verses straight from the 10 commandments that shows Jesus to be our god.

1 I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. You shall have no other gods before Me.

2 For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God

3 You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain

5 land which the Lord your God is giving you

Jesus Christ is our Lord, there is no other lord besides him. So as we can clearly see from just these 4 verses, Jesus is our God, he is the one whom has authority over us. And we know Jesus and his father are not one entity, for Jesus prayed to his father. If they were one, was he praying to himself? Would that not be lying if he were? To say that you are praying/talking to someone/something yet just saying worlds to yourself more or less, would be lying, for you would be lying about who you're talking to/praying to.

So you think all Buddhists, Taoists, Jews, Muslims, and Hindus
are all going to hell?

I don't believe this. I believe that Jesus would never punish
good people regardless of their religious beliefs. When the
Bible says there is no way to salvation except through Jesus
I interpret that to mean that one must be like Jesus and any
good person qualifies.



I think that those people who think you have to believe
Jesus to be the messiah just to be "saved" are misguided.
Jesus himself never said he was the messiah or claimed he
was God actually. Later others said that.

Jesus simply believed as the other Hebrews did that one
had to live a good, kind ethical life and he tried to set
an example.

And anyone who lives a good, kind, ethical life as Jesus
did will find salvation regardless of whether they are
brought up Muslim, Taoist, Hindu etc...