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| Topic: Where in the Genesis is Jesus - part 2 | |
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Funches wrote: but I don't see any upside for Jesus asking God to forgive in front of witnesses..it seems more like a sign of disrespect to God I agree, this is the kind of talk that I would expect from a false prophet. Someone who was just trying to pull the wool over the crowd's eyes. He was caught for his false prophecy, and as they are crucifying him for it, he acts like as if he's close enough to God that he can actually suggest to God how to judge people. That would be precisely what I would expect an overly-arrogant false prophet to do. Not to suggest that Jesus was an overly-arrogant false prophet. I personally don't believe he ever said any such things. However, I do believe that the people who wrote the New Testament wrote these things. And so they would be the false prophets who are shoving these words in a dead Jesus' mouth. I simply don't believe that the New Testament is worthy of being taken literally and verbatim. Therefore I have no reason to justify many of the things that they claim Jesus might have said. I simply dismiss them as being fabricated lies in the first place. It's only the people who are attempting to hold the whole cannon up as the infallible word of God who need to justify ever jot and tittle. |
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Funches... "if you are totally paralysed you will die until someone assist you ...the will can not help itself survive...this is why the will is part of the body ". Beg to differ... Will continues to fight for survival after death of the shell. Free will gives us the ability to 'judge' ourselves and be reborn into the next life. 'Elsewere', a place where the 'shell' itself changes... But where also the 'spirit' continues to grow. AdventureBegins...if you have "Free Will" why would you need to fight for survival after the death of the shell...and if one truely had "Free Will"..why would they be paralysed....simply make a decision or choose to not be paralysed and get up and walk or make the decision for your shell not to die ..... a God can use their "Free Will" to carry out such decisions....therefore if man has "Free Will" shouldn't he be able to do the same while in a Flesh and Blood body |
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Funches... "if you are totally paralysed you will die until someone assist you ...the will can not help itself survive...this is why the will is part of the body ". Beg to differ... Will continues to fight for survival after death of the shell. Free will gives us the ability to 'judge' ourselves and be reborn into the next life. 'Elsewere', a place where the 'shell' itself changes... But where also the 'spirit' continues to grow. AdventureBegins...if you have "Free Will" why would you need to fight for survival after the death of the shell...and if one truely had "Free Will"..why would they be paralysed....simply make a decision or choose to not be paralysed and get up and walk or make the decision for your shell not to die ..... a God can use their "Free Will" to carry out such decisions....therefore if man has "Free Will" shouldn't he be able to do the same while in a Flesh and Blood body First he must completely and absolutely understand the body. Many steps would have to be taken to 'heal' such a thing... But of a necessity he must first understand how it all works... I do not... My mind-as-it-is can not encompass that much information in a single 'picture'. |
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Funches... "if you are totally paralysed you will die until someone assist you ...the will can not help itself survive...this is why the will is part of the body ". Beg to differ... Will continues to fight for survival after death of the shell. Free will gives us the ability to 'judge' ourselves and be reborn into the next life. 'Elsewere', a place where the 'shell' itself changes... But where also the 'spirit' continues to grow. AdventureBegins...if you have "Free Will" why would you need to fight for survival after the death of the shell...and if one truely had "Free Will"..why would they be paralysed....simply make a decision or choose to not be paralysed and get up and walk or make the decision for your shell not to die ..... a God can use their "Free Will" to carry out such decisions....therefore if man has "Free Will" shouldn't he be able to do the same while in a Flesh and Blood body First he must completely and absolutely understand the body. Many steps would have to be taken to 'heal' such a thing... But of a necessity he must first understand how it all works... I do not... My mind-as-it-is can not encompass that much information in a single 'picture'. so where is the "Free WIll" ...if you lack the will to control a mere flesh and blood body in a physical existence....why would you believe that you will have the will to control your supposed spiritual existence wouldn't "Free Will" be the ability to make decisions and use your will to carry out those decisions no matter which existence ones presence was in |
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Funches... "if you are totally paralysed you will die until someone assist you ...the will can not help itself survive...this is why the will is part of the body ". Beg to differ... Will continues to fight for survival after death of the shell. Free will gives us the ability to 'judge' ourselves and be reborn into the next life. 'Elsewere', a place where the 'shell' itself changes... But where also the 'spirit' continues to grow. AdventureBegins...if you have "Free Will" why would you need to fight for survival after the death of the shell...and if one truely had "Free Will"..why would they be paralysed....simply make a decision or choose to not be paralysed and get up and walk or make the decision for your shell not to die ..... a God can use their "Free Will" to carry out such decisions....therefore if man has "Free Will" shouldn't he be able to do the same while in a Flesh and Blood body First he must completely and absolutely understand the body. Many steps would have to be taken to 'heal' such a thing... But of a necessity he must first understand how it all works... I do not... My mind-as-it-is can not encompass that much information in a single 'picture'. so where is the "Free WIll" ...if you lack the will to control a mere flesh and blood body in a physical existence....why would you believe that you will have the will to control your supposed spiritual existence wouldn't "Free Will" be the ability to make decisions and use your will to carry out those decisions no matter which existence ones presence was in Because if I exercise my free will so that the human race advances... My decendants may reach the point where 'advanced' contains such ability to 'picture'. The human race is a growing child. |
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Funches... "if you are totally paralysed you will die until someone assist you ...the will can not help itself survive...this is why the will is part of the body ". Beg to differ... Will continues to fight for survival after death of the shell. Free will gives us the ability to 'judge' ourselves and be reborn into the next life. 'Elsewere', a place where the 'shell' itself changes... But where also the 'spirit' continues to grow. AdventureBegins...if you have "Free Will" why would you need to fight for survival after the death of the shell...and if one truely had "Free Will"..why would they be paralysed....simply make a decision or choose to not be paralysed and get up and walk or make the decision for your shell not to die ..... a God can use their "Free Will" to carry out such decisions....therefore if man has "Free Will" shouldn't he be able to do the same while in a Flesh and Blood body First he must completely and absolutely understand the body. Many steps would have to be taken to 'heal' such a thing... But of a necessity he must first understand how it all works... I do not... My mind-as-it-is can not encompass that much information in a single 'picture'. so where is the "Free WIll" ...if you lack the will to control a mere flesh and blood body in a physical existence....why would you believe that you will have the will to control your supposed spiritual existence wouldn't "Free Will" be the ability to make decisions and use your will to carry out those decisions no matter which existence ones presence was in Because if I exercise my free will so that the human race advances... My decendants may reach the point where 'advanced' contains such ability to 'picture'. The human race is a growing child. I would say that technology is also a growing child spawn by man which will reach adulthood before man ...technology will bring in "Free Will" and become the decendents of man |
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Edited by
MorningSong
on
Sat 12/03/11 12:13 AM
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"Bone of my bone and flesh of my flesh"
Notice that scripture mentions bones...there are no bones in the womb........meaning, it was not from the womb, but from the rib of Adam,or "side of man"( where the rib cage is located ),that God created woman. She was called wo-man( made from man with a womb). When God made man,God did not make Adam with a womb... He ONLY made the WOman with a womb.  (The Word of God has to be rightly divided, folks.....)  ............................. God used part of the male to form the female to show that they were actually the same created being, two halves of a whole. The female was not created as a separate being, second to the male. She was formed as part of the initial man, in order to be a “helpmate” for the male. Eve was brought into being to strengthen and powerfully help the male, but she was made from the same “stuff” and she was every bit as perfect a creation as man and every bit as patterned after God’s image and likeness. The word translated “helpmate” is not synonymous with assistant, servant, minion or subordinate. The Hebrew phrase, azer k'negdo in all other instances in the Bible refers to powerful and extensive aid and support. In most cases, the phrase was used to depict dominant military forces or armed men. Other scriptures, including Deuteronomy 33:29, 7 and Exodus 18:4, use the same phrase to discuss the potent interventions and deliverances of God Himself. Woman, therefore, was created as a complement to man, as an integral part of man, and as a powerful and influential companion for man, on an equal footing with him. Furthermore, the Hebrew word translated “suitable” K'negdo, carries much more meaning than simply suitable or appropriate. This phrase also means “opposite or contrasting.” This implies that the two beings were designed to work and fit together perfectly, not just physically but in all ways. The strengths of each compensated for the weaknesses of the other. Together, they became something far stronger and more magnificent than either of them was alone. Why did God use a rib? A closer examination of the Hebrew also reveals another surprising element of the story. The Hebrew word translated “rib” in Genesis Chapter 2 is tsela. The only other instance of the word “rib” in the Bible occurs in Daniel 7:5, but the Hebrew word used there is different. In other scriptures where the Hebrew word or its variants are used, the word has been translated “side.” For example, in Exodus 25, 27, and 35, the words tselo (variant) and tselot (plural) are used to refer to the sides of the Ark of the Covenant or the sides of the altar. Jeremiah 20:10 refers to “fear on every side.” In Second Samuel 16:13, David encounters a cursing Shimei moving along the side of a hill. In all of these contexts, translating the word tsela as “rib” would not fit the context. This raises the possibility that the Genesis 2 passage should actually be translated as Adam’s “side,” rather than his rib. If the appropriate translation is that God removed Adam’s side, how much of his side did God remove? It is quite possible that Eve was constructed literally from half of Adam. This brings new meaning to Adam’s declaration that Eve was “bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh.” She was more than just his bone. She was out of his flesh and bone. God created Eve in the way that He did to show that woman has equal status in creation to man and was created to complement and in some ways complete man in the integral union of marriage. Woman was created to be “beside” man, not beneath or above him. This does not speak to the roles of male and female in the home or church, however, but to equality of status in the kingdom of God. Man is no more “worthy” of salvation, and woman is no less a citizen of God’s kingdom. They stand side-by-side in the eyes of God. exerts from gotquestions.org  - |
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Edited by
MorningSong
on
Sat 12/03/11 12:24 AM
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 It’s amazing how God made man, and so beautiful how he made woman! Why did God create Woman from Man’s rib, when He could have simply created her from dust, as He did Man? This is a story that puts a beautiful touch on the reasoning: “When I created the heavens and the earth, I spoke them into being. When I created man, I formed him from the dust of the Earth and breathed life into his nostrils. But you, woman, I fashioned after I breathed the breath of life into man because your nostrils are too delicate. I allowed a deep sleep to come over him so I could patiently and perfectly fashion you. Man was put to sleep so that he could not interfere with the creativity. From one bone I fashioned you. I chose the bone that protects man’s life. I chose the rib, which protects his heart and lungs and supports him, as you are meant to do.” “Around this one bone I shaped you. I modeled you. I created you perfectly and beautifully. Your characteristics are as the rib, strong yet delicate and fragile. You provide protection for the most delicate organ in man, his heart. His heart is the center of his being; his lungs hold the breath of life. The rib cage will allow itself to be broken before it will allow damage to the heart. Support man as the rib cage supports the body.” “You were not taken from his feet, to be under him, nor were you taken from his head, to be above him. You were taken from his side, to stand beside him and be held close to his side. You are my perfect angel. You are my beautiful little girl. You have grown to be a splendid woman of excellence, and my eyes fill when I see the virtue in your heart. Your eyes: don’t change them. Your lips: how lovely when they part in prayer. Your nose so perfect in form, your hands so gentle to touch. I’ve caressed your face in your deepest sleep; I’ve held your heart close to mine. Of all that lives and breathes, you are the most like me.” “Adam walked with me in the cool of the day and yet he was lonely. He could not see me or touch me. He could only feel me. So everything I wanted Adam to share and experience with me, I fashioned in you: my holiness, my strength, my purity, my love, my protection and support. You are special because you are the extension of me.” “Man represents my image, woman – my emotions. Together, you represent the totality of God. So man: treat woman well. Love her, respect her, for she is fragile. In hurting her, you hurt me. What you do to her, you do to me. In crushing her, you only damage your own heart, the heart of your Father and the heart of her Father. Woman, support man. In humility, show him the power of emotion I have given you. In gentle quietness show your strength. In love, show him that you are the rib that protects his inner self.” http://journalynne.wordpress.com/2006/10/11/why-god-created-woman-from-mans-rib/ |
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Edited by
MorningSong
on
Sat 12/03/11 01:17 AM
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Cowboy wrote: No, I placed my faith in Jesus that he will save me from death. I placed my faith in that Jesus loves each and everyone of us. I placed my faith in Jesus defeating death for each and everyone of us when he was resurrected. Cowboy, only pointing this out and bringing it up one more time.....casue this is extremely important for any real salvation to take place: Cowboy,Until you believe that JESUS IS EQUALLY AS MUCH GOD AS GOD THE FATHER....AND ALSO THAT JESUS IS GOD ALMIGHTY....in other words, until you believe in the DEITY of Christ, , you cannot bE saved( no matter HOW much you place faith in YOUR version of who Jesus is ). THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT NOW!!! You can't just believe in your own "version" of Jesus and still expect to be saved. No way. The Holy Spirit only comes in, when God sees we are believng and accepting the REAL Jesus for Who He REALLY is...otherwise God would be an INTRUDER). Cowboy,According to your posts in the past,you believe Jesus is "our god",but Not God Almighty...and also, in the past you stated that you believe Jesus is a totally separate "god" from GOD Almighty. And you still expect to be saved, believng this way. Not so, Cowboy. You have to believe and accept the REAL JESUS, in order to be saved. Jesus is the Word Who creared the worlds....Jesus is just as Much God AS the Father and Holy Spirit are..... all 3 persons within the ONE Godhead are equally God...and all 3 persons make up ONE GOD ALMIGHTY !!! Extremely important to get this right now. There is NO salvation, any other way, exccept to believe and accept the REAL JESUS CHRIST into your heart. (ps....I know you will attempt to try once more to twist my words,as you always have done in the past... but don't...the enemy is a great deciever,and will make you think you are saved ,by believing in another version of Jesus . Again, what I am sharing is extremey important....and God is putting this on my heart to share with you once more...so please listen this time, Cowboy...no real salvation can take place, without believng in the REAL Jesus now. I have shared this once more , because God has been puttng this on my heart for you all day today... what you do with this is up to you now. Ok...This is still heavy on my heart for you, Cowboy. Now I will add one more thing, however.....a person can call on Jesus name ,and mean it in his heart,without knowing much about who Jesus is at first.....BUT when that person is truly saved, and that person HEARS more about Jesus afterwards, he will NOT reject the truth about who Jesus is, as he continues to grow. Even if a person knows very little about Jesus in the beginning when he is saved,he will eventually ACCEPT all the truth about Jesus ,as he grows in the faith,and learns more and more about Who Jesus is.....simply because The Holy Spriit in him, will reveal all the truth to him,as the Holy Sprirt continues to lead and guide him into all truth.(especially when he is being told about Jesus ). Again,he will not reject the truth about Jesus IF he is truly saved, that is....because the Holy Spirit indwelling him will always confirm the Truth to him. |
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Edited by
CowboyGH
on
Sat 12/03/11 09:23 AM
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Cowboy wrote: No, I placed my faith in Jesus that he will save me from death. I placed my faith in that Jesus loves each and everyone of us. I placed my faith in Jesus defeating death for each and everyone of us when he was resurrected. Cowboy, only pointing this out and bringing it up one more time.....casue this is extremely important for any real salvation to take place: Cowboy,Until you believe that JESUS IS EQUALLY AS MUCH GOD AS GOD THE FATHER....AND ALSO THAT JESUS IS GOD ALMIGHTY....in other words, until you believe in the DEITY of Christ, , you cannot bE saved( no matter HOW much you place faith in YOUR version of who Jesus is ). THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT NOW!!! You can't just believe in your own "version" of Jesus and still expect to be saved. No way. The Holy Spirit only comes in, when God sees we are believng and accepting the REAL Jesus for Who He REALLY is...otherwise God would be an INTRUDER). Cowboy,According to your posts in the past,you believe Jesus is "our god",but Not God Almighty...and also, in the past you stated that you believe Jesus is a totally separate "god" from GOD Almighty. And you still expect to be saved, believng this way. Not so, Cowboy. You have to believe and accept the REAL JESUS, in order to be saved. Jesus is the Word Who creared the worlds....Jesus is just as Much God AS the Father and Holy Spirit are..... all 3 persons within the ONE Godhead are equally God...and all 3 persons make up ONE GOD ALMIGHTY !!! Extremely important to get this right now. There is NO salvation, any other way, exccept to believe and accept the REAL JESUS CHRIST into your heart. (ps....I know you will attempt to try once more to twist my words,as you always have done in the past... but don't...the enemy is a great deciever,and will make you think you are saved ,by believing in another version of Jesus . Again, what I am sharing is extremey important....and God is putting this on my heart to share with you once more...so please listen this time, Cowboy...no real salvation can take place, without believng in the REAL Jesus now. I have shared this once more , because God has been puttng this on my heart for you all day today... what you do with this is up to you now. Ok...This is still heavy on my heart for you, Cowboy. Now I will add one more thing, however.....a person can call on Jesus name ,and mean it in his heart,without knowing much about who Jesus is at first.....BUT when that person is truly saved, and that person HEARS more about Jesus afterwards, he will NOT reject the truth about who Jesus is, as he continues to grow. Even if a person knows very little about Jesus in the beginning when he is saved,he will eventually ACCEPT all the truth about Jesus ,as he grows in the faith,and learns more and more about Who Jesus is.....simply because The Holy Spriit in him, will reveal all the truth to him,as the Holy Sprirt continues to lead and guide him into all truth.(especially when he is being told about Jesus ). Again,he will not reject the truth about Jesus IF he is truly saved, that is....because the Holy Spirit indwelling him will always confirm the Truth to him. Ok, couple last verses and I will let God do the rest. This is on my heart heavy, woke up this morning and was the first thought on my mind. This CLEARLY separates God the father from Jesus. Specifically says SON OF GOD. If he is the SON OF GOD, he is not God the Father, for again, he is the SON OF GOD. Hebrews 4:15 14Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. And this one. God gave HIS only begotten son, again separating the two persons. John 3:16 16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. |
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Edited by
Abracadabra
on
Sat 12/03/11 09:45 AM
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(The Word of God has to be rightly divided, folks.....) The word of God? That's the whole problem right there MorningSong, the continued holding up of these ancient fables as the "Word of God". It ultimately leads to extreme religious prejudice where the Christians are in total denial of what they don't care to believe from the bible (such as the FACT that Genesis 3:16 has this "God" clearly stated that man is to RULE OVER woman). They deny these kinds of things, yet simultaneously try to hold up things such as John 3:16 as being the absolute TRUTH. Moreover, they support the idea of this God basically condemning people to either spiritual death or eternal suffering in a hell fire, for mere not going along with the Christian claims that these fables are the "Word of God" What? You don't believe that Jesus was the Son of God?  God will condemn you to hell for that brother! That's heresy! That's blaspheme! That's the greatest SIN that any man could ever commit! You have a CHOICE! You can either join the forces of GOD, or you can chose to side with Satan! Now what are YOU going to do?  You are faced with a CHOICE! And if you make the WRONG CHOICE you will be branded as someone who hates God and serves the demon Satan! And God will be justified in casting you into the pits of HELL! Because it was YOUR CHOICE to REJECT GOD!!!! ~~~~~~ I mean, seriously MorningSong, that's the only place this religion can lead when it comes to "non-believers". They must be condemned by this God, and that condemnation must be "righteous". If the Christians fail to hold this up as being absolutely necessary, then the whole ideal that every MUST confess Jesus to be LORD and must accept him as their LORD and Savior goes down the tubes. Christianity would be a completely meaningless religion if it was deemed OK to not believe in Jesus and not acknowledge that he is LORD (which also implies that the entire Christian Biblical Cannon must also be acknowledged as the "Word of God") After all, what sense would it make for someone to confess that Jesus is LORD yet deny that he was "The Christ" and all that goes with that? This is what I mean about Jesus just being the tip of the iceberg. Jesus is being used as the bait to suck people into this religion. Reject Jesus and you're a heathen who is choosing to reject God and support Satan. Accept Jesus and you had damn well better be prepared to SUPPORT all of the Christian doctrine from Genesis to Revelations. To question that is seen as nothing short of questioning that Jesus was the sacrificial lamb of this very GOD! There is no way in Christianity to "Accept Jesus" as your LORD and savior without also supporting the horrors that you are supposedly being "saved" from. ~~~~~ IMHO, this religion has taken all that's good and righteous and has tossed it all out the window in favor of creating a religion that cannot be denied without serious social repercussions from "The Christians" It's really nothing more than a Political System that has been created in the name of a God who will hate you if you fail to support it. There is no way to politely reject this political-religious institution and be repected. How could anyone possibly be "respected" when they are ultimately being charged with rejecting their creator in favor of siding with a demonic Satan?  And this is all being done in the name of Jesus! Fact it MorningSong. You can't possibly know if these ancient fables have anything to do with any God. You may wish to have FAITH that this is the case, but you don't know it and can't know it. All you are doing is preaching what you personally believe to be true. Not unlike Cowboy. I will Grant you that you style is a whole hell of a lot better. But in the end, you're basically supporting the same cannon of stories, and you too are apparently in denial of what these stories actually have to say. Genesis 3:16 is crystal clear God has condemned Woman to be ruled over by her Husband. And Eve represents all women in this religion. It has to be that way in order to make the concept of "original sin" meaningful. Adam represents All men, and Eve represents ALL women. Thus all men are to be the RULERS over their wives. Why do you think this is being held up in the Muslim countries? This is precisely where they get this crap from. There are Christians who are actively working for "Women's Rights" and rebelling against these ancient archaic beliefs of male chauvinism and superiority. Yet how ironic is that? The Bible has the Christian God actually supporting male superiority and has commanded that husbands shall rule over their wives. Yes many modern day Christians totally reject that idea. They see it as being fundamentally "unrighteous". And apparently you are in denial of it as well. So how do you explain the irony that Christian are so passionate about supporting John 3:16, but are in such gross denial of Genesis 3:16? I reject them BOTH as being nothing more than man-made superstitious rumors. The biblical cannon is a Pandora's box of contradicting parables and stories. A God who cursed a serpent to crawl on his belly and eat dust for the rest of the days of his life?  You seriously have to believe this in order to support this cannon of stories ya know! |
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Cowboy wrote: Ok, couple last verses and I will let God do the rest. This is on my heart heavy, woke up this morning and was the first thought on my mind. This CLEARLY separates God the father from Jesus. Specifically says SON OF GOD. If he is the SON OF GOD, he is not God the Father, for again, he is the SON OF GOD. You're turning Christianity into Greek Mythology. This is precisely what the Christians strive to avoid. You are proclaiming that Jesus is a totally separate "God" from Yahweh in the same sense that Apollo was a totally separate "God" from Zeus. Apollo was the Son of Zeus. But unlike Jesus Apollo was born of a Goddess named Leto. So Apollo was a full-fledged pure-bred God. If you are claiming that Jesus was merely the Son of Yahweh in this same way, then not only would that make Jesus a separate deity, but it would also make him a demigod because he was born of a mortal woman. He wouldn't even have the divine status of Apollo. The Christians have historically refused this idea. This is why they have created the Holy Trinity in an effort to proclaim that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are all ONE. They are quite passionate about this and demand that Christianity is a monotheistic religion. What you are suggesting is that they are wrong and that Christianity is actually polytheistic and that Jesus is indeed a separate deity from God Almighty. You're basically proclaiming that Jesus is nothing more than a demigod version of Apollo. And whatever happened with "Before Abraham was, I AM"? You'll find yourself in extremely heated debates with other Chrisitans if you try to proclaim that Jesus was anything other than the great primordial "I AM". They'll be accusing you of blaspheme and heresy.  |
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Cowboy wrote: Ok, couple last verses and I will let God do the rest. This is on my heart heavy, woke up this morning and was the first thought on my mind. This CLEARLY separates God the father from Jesus. Specifically says SON OF GOD. If he is the SON OF GOD, he is not God the Father, for again, he is the SON OF GOD. You're turning Christianity into Greek Mythology. This is precisely what the Christians strive to avoid. You are proclaiming that Jesus is a totally separate "God" from Yahweh in the same sense that Apollo was a totally separate "God" from Zeus. Apollo was the Son of Zeus. But unlike Jesus Apollo was born of a Goddess named Leto. So Apollo was a full-fledged pure-bred God. If you are claiming that Jesus was merely the Son of Yahweh in this same way, then not only would that make Jesus a separate deity, but it would also make him a demigod because he was born of a mortal woman. He wouldn't even have the divine status of Apollo. The Christians have historically refused this idea. This is why they have created the Holy Trinity in an effort to proclaim that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are all ONE. They are quite passionate about this and demand that Christianity is a monotheistic religion. What you are suggesting is that they are wrong and that Christianity is actually polytheistic and that Jesus is indeed a separate deity from God Almighty. You're basically proclaiming that Jesus is nothing more than a demigod version of Apollo. And whatever happened with "Before Abraham was, I AM"? You'll find yourself in extremely heated debates with other Chrisitans if you try to proclaim that Jesus was anything other than the great primordial "I AM". They'll be accusing you of blaspheme and heresy. If you are claiming that Jesus was merely the Son of Yahweh in this same way, then not only would that make Jesus a separate deity, but it would also make him a demigod because he was born of a mortal woman. Know ye not that ye are gods? We are immortal beings. The punishment of sin is death eg., the only reward for sin is death. We remain pure, we remain alive. But as God the father seen we were incapable of remaining pure on our own behalf, he sent his only begotten son to cleanse us and give us a path to God the Father that we could achieve through Jesus. You are proclaiming that Jesus is a totally separate "God" from Yahweh in the same sense that Apollo was a totally separate "God" from Zeus. I'm not proclaiming that on my own whim. The bible CLEARLY separates God the father from God the son. God sent his only begotten son, ect. If being did not send another being, these verses as such would be lying. If Jesus is God the Father on Earth, then he did not send his only begotten son, his SON did not die on the cross for us as the scriptures say ect. |
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Cowboy wrote: Ok, couple last verses and I will let God do the rest. This is on my heart heavy, woke up this morning and was the first thought on my mind. This CLEARLY separates God the father from Jesus. Specifically says SON OF GOD. If he is the SON OF GOD, he is not God the Father, for again, he is the SON OF GOD. You're turning Christianity into Greek Mythology. This is precisely what the Christians strive to avoid. You are proclaiming that Jesus is a totally separate "God" from Yahweh in the same sense that Apollo was a totally separate "God" from Zeus. Apollo was the Son of Zeus. But unlike Jesus Apollo was born of a Goddess named Leto. So Apollo was a full-fledged pure-bred God. If you are claiming that Jesus was merely the Son of Yahweh in this same way, then not only would that make Jesus a separate deity, but it would also make him a demigod because he was born of a mortal woman. He wouldn't even have the divine status of Apollo. The Christians have historically refused this idea. This is why they have created the Holy Trinity in an effort to proclaim that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are all ONE. They are quite passionate about this and demand that Christianity is a monotheistic religion. What you are suggesting is that they are wrong and that Christianity is actually polytheistic and that Jesus is indeed a separate deity from God Almighty. You're basically proclaiming that Jesus is nothing more than a demigod version of Apollo. And whatever happened with "Before Abraham was, I AM"? You'll find yourself in extremely heated debates with other Chrisitans if you try to proclaim that Jesus was anything other than the great primordial "I AM". They'll be accusing you of blaspheme and heresy. The Christians have historically refused this idea. This is why they have created the Holy Trinity in an effort to proclaim that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are all ONE. They are quite passionate about this and demand that Christianity is a monotheistic religion. Christianity is a monotheist. We don't worship Jesus. We worship God the father through Jesus. God = a person or thing of supreme value a powerful ruler Jesus is our God. He is our ruler, he is our supreme. Jesus even referred to his father as God. And also this shows what I'm also saying in this thread. If Jesus is God the father, then him crying out God why hast thou forsaken me would essentially be lying, for he would not be speaking to anyone, if they were one in the same being. Matthew 27:46 46And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? |
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(The Word of God has to be rightly divided, folks.....) The word of God? That's the whole problem right there MorningSong, the continued holding up of these ancient fables as the "Word of God". It ultimately leads to extreme religious prejudice where the Christians are in total denial of what they don't care to believe from the bible (such as the FACT that Genesis 3:16 has this "God" clearly stated that man is to RULE OVER woman). They deny these kinds of things, yet simultaneously try to hold up things such as John 3:16 as being the absolute TRUTH. Moreover, they support the idea of this God basically condemning people to either spiritual death or eternal suffering in a hell fire, for mere not going along with the Christian claims that these fables are the "Word of God" What? You don't believe that Jesus was the Son of God? God will condemn you to hell for that brother! That's heresy! That's blaspheme! That's the greatest SIN that any man could ever commit! You have a CHOICE! You can either join the forces of GOD, or you can chose to side with Satan! Now what are YOU going to do? You are faced with a CHOICE! And if you make the WRONG CHOICE you will be branded as someone who hates God and serves the demon Satan! And God will be justified in casting you into the pits of HELL! Because it was YOUR CHOICE to REJECT GOD!!!! ~~~~~~ I mean, seriously MorningSong, that's the only place this religion can lead when it comes to "non-believers". They must be condemned by this God, and that condemnation must be "righteous". If the Christians fail to hold this up as being absolutely necessary, then the whole ideal that every MUST confess Jesus to be LORD and must accept him as their LORD and Savior goes down the tubes. Christianity would be a completely meaningless religion if it was deemed OK to not believe in Jesus and not acknowledge that he is LORD (which also implies that the entire Christian Biblical Cannon must also be acknowledged as the "Word of God") After all, what sense would it make for someone to confess that Jesus is LORD yet deny that he was "The Christ" and all that goes with that? This is what I mean about Jesus just being the tip of the iceberg. Jesus is being used as the bait to suck people into this religion. Reject Jesus and you're a heathen who is choosing to reject God and support Satan. Accept Jesus and you had damn well better be prepared to SUPPORT all of the Christian doctrine from Genesis to Revelations. To question that is seen as nothing short of questioning that Jesus was the sacrificial lamb of this very GOD! There is no way in Christianity to "Accept Jesus" as your LORD and savior without also supporting the horrors that you are supposedly being "saved" from. ~~~~~ IMHO, this religion has taken all that's good and righteous and has tossed it all out the window in favor of creating a religion that cannot be denied without serious social repercussions from "The Christians" It's really nothing more than a Political System that has been created in the name of a God who will hate you if you fail to support it. There is no way to politely reject this political-religious institution and be repected. How could anyone possibly be "respected" when they are ultimately being charged with rejecting their creator in favor of siding with a demonic Satan? And this is all being done in the name of Jesus! Fact it MorningSong. You can't possibly know if these ancient fables have anything to do with any God. You may wish to have FAITH that this is the case, but you don't know it and can't know it. All you are doing is preaching what you personally believe to be true. Not unlike Cowboy. I will Grant you that you style is a whole hell of a lot better. But in the end, you're basically supporting the same cannon of stories, and you too are apparently in denial of what these stories actually have to say. Genesis 3:16 is crystal clear God has condemned Woman to be ruled over by her Husband. And Eve represents all women in this religion. It has to be that way in order to make the concept of "original sin" meaningful. Adam represents All men, and Eve represents ALL women. Thus all men are to be the RULERS over their wives. Why do you think this is being held up in the Muslim countries? This is precisely where they get this crap from. There are Christians who are actively working for "Women's Rights" and rebelling against these ancient archaic beliefs of male chauvinism and superiority. Yet how ironic is that? The Bible has the Christian God actually supporting male superiority and has commanded that husbands shall rule over their wives. Yes many modern day Christians totally reject that idea. They see it as being fundamentally "unrighteous". And apparently you are in denial of it as well. So how do you explain the irony that Christian are so passionate about supporting John 3:16, but are in such gross denial of Genesis 3:16? I reject them BOTH as being nothing more than man-made superstitious rumors. The biblical cannon is a Pandora's box of contradicting parables and stories. A God who cursed a serpent to crawl on his belly and eat dust for the rest of the days of his life? You seriously have to believe this in order to support this cannon of stories ya know! What? You don't believe that Jesus was the Son of God? God will condemn you to hell for that brother! How so? Why pass the blame? Jesus has told us he is the only way to the father. So with that knowledge, how could it be God's fault one doesn't achieve such? It's not, it's the individual's self that condemned themselves. John 14:6 6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. |
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Edited by
MorningSong
on
Sat 12/03/11 01:24 PM
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Cowboy, Jesus IS a separate PERSON from God the
Father....Yes...but Jesus is NOT a separate God from God Almighty (as you believe ). Also, NO ONE is saying the Father is Jesus...OR, that Jesus is the Father .... ok?? (we've been thru this soooo many tines already !!!!!) The Father is a SEPARATE PERSON from the PERSON of Jesus, as is also the Holy Sprit a SEPARATE PERSON from the Father and Jesus. There are 3 PERSONS WITHIN the ONE GODHEAD ( the three persons were the "we" , mentioned in Geneis )..... God the Father is the FIRST PERSON .... God the Son(Jesus , known also as the Word ) is the SECOND PERSON.... God the Holy Spirit is THIRD PERSON .... but ..... ALL 3 PERSONS WITHIN THE ONE GODHEAD, MAKE UP ONLY ONE...GOD...ALMIGHTY !!! NOT 3 Gods ( or Entities).... NOT 2 Gods) or Entities)..... BUT ONLY ONE GOD !!!! ONE ENTITY !!!!!!! THERE IS ONLY ONE ENTITY !!!! (NO, NOT 2 ENTITIES AS YOU BELIEVE , BUT ONLY ONE ENTITIY)!!!!! THERE IS ONLY ONE GOD ALMIGHTY !!! ONE GOD !!!!!!
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Cowboy wrote: I'm not proclaiming that on my own whim. The bible CLEARLY separates God the father from God the son. God sent his only begotten son, ect. If being did not send another being, these verses as such would be lying. If Jesus is God the Father on Earth, then he did not send his only begotten son, his SON did not die on the cross for us as the scriptures say ect. No, the Bible CLEARLY has Jesus proclaiming that He and the Father are ONE. The Bible also CLEARLY has Jesus proclaiming that "Before Abraham was, I AM". All you done (so typically) is post a few contradictory verses to these verses, and proclaimed that the verses you chose CLEARLY show that the Bible supports your views. There is no "clarity" in these fables Cowboy. They are a collection of contradictions through and through. You pick and choose verses that support your views and totally sweep any other contradicting verses under the carpet. And then you claim that the verses you have chosen "CLEARLY SHOW" what the Bible has to say. It's ridiculous Cowboy. And this is precisely why the Jews and Muslims don't accept the New Testament. And why the Protestants reject Catholicism, and why Protestants themselves have created countless different denominations. These fables are riddled with contradictions and verses that conflict with each other, and there is NOTHING CLEAR about it at all. That is the Christian fallacy. There is no clarity to be had from these stories. They are a huge collection of blatant contradictions. |
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Cowboy wrote: Jesus even referred to his father as God. And also this shows what I'm also saying in this thread. If Jesus is God the father, then him crying out God why hast thou forsaken me would essentially be lying, for he would not be speaking to anyone, if they were one in the same being. Matthew 27:46 46And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? Exactly! And this totally flies in the face of Jesus' previous claims, "I and the Father are ONE", and "Before Abraham was, I AM". So all you are doing here is verifying that these stories are indeed totally riddled with huge contradictions. |
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Cowboy wrote: How so? Why pass the blame? Jesus has told us he is the only way to the father. So with that knowledge, how could it be God's fault one doesn't achieve such? It's not, it's the individual's self that condemned themselves. John 14:6 6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. You're being ridiculous again. You just posted scriptures from these highly contradicting stories as if they are supposed to have some sort of meaning to someone. Why should anyone believe this John fellow? It is utterly disgusting to think that you would judge someone to be "condemning themselves" simply because they don't believe these utterly convoluted and untrustworthy fables. That's is my WHOLE POINT Cowboy. You shove these verses in people's faces proclaiming: "Here! Either believe this is the Word of God! Or you are condemning yourself!" You are doing precisely what I'm talking about.
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Edited by
MorningSong
on
Sat 12/03/11 02:03 PM
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Actually, God made it easy for us to understand God
as a TRIUNE BEING.... How? God not only created man in His own Image, but God also created man as a TRIUNE being. Man has a physical body, soul, and spirit ( 3 parts yet one being).
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