Topic: Looking at the foundation of your core values
no photo
Sun 12/04/11 03:04 PM
Edited by Jeanniebean on Sun 12/04/11 03:06 PM

and when we find the perfect candidate who has

disclosed all their finances
NEVER associated or worked with anyone with questionable backgrounds
NEVER done business with lobbyists
NEVER lied to his wife
and NEVER had or associated with anyone who had former mistakes of judgment or bad choices,,,


I hope someone will share their name with me,,,laugh laugh laugh


in the meantime, lots of imperfect men have accomplished pretty incredible things and been incredible leaders


It is not simply "lying to your wife."

It has to do with a contract and a promise and a vow. It is betrayal. It is not just a little white lie.

It was 13 years too. Damn!

Don't trivialize it.




msharmony's photo
Sun 12/04/11 05:27 PM
Edited by msharmony on Sun 12/04/11 05:32 PM


and when we find the perfect candidate who has

disclosed all their finances
NEVER associated or worked with anyone with questionable backgrounds
NEVER done business with lobbyists
NEVER lied to his wife
and NEVER had or associated with anyone who had former mistakes of judgment or bad choices,,,


I hope someone will share their name with me,,,laugh laugh laugh


in the meantime, lots of imperfect men have accomplished pretty incredible things and been incredible leaders


It is not simply "lying to your wife."

It has to do with a contract and a promise and a vow. It is betrayal. It is not just a little white lie.

It was 13 years too. Damn!

Don't trivialize it.







Im not trivializing,,, just the opposite

the relationship of a marriage is a 24/7 commitment with no training provided, with no documented and specific guidelines or responsibilities, it is one of the HARDEST things to maintain out of all relationships

to use the HARDEST relationship as a gauge of how people handle easier relationships,, is more of a trivialization,,,


its like saying someone not fit enough to finish a 25 mile race must not be fit enough to finish any race,,,

mightymoe's photo
Sun 12/04/11 07:00 PM

This is not about Obama. It is not even about Cain.

It is about the betrayal of a (sacred) trust or breaking a promise to one who is "supposed" to be your closest partner, your spouse.

It is about whether or not you can trust a man who breaks a promise to his wife and lies for 13 years.

No, you can't




is Cain Jewish? is that why your going off on this?

mightymoe's photo
Sun 12/04/11 07:03 PM



This is not about Obama. It is not even about Cain.

It is about the betrayal of a (sacred) trust or breaking a promise to one who is "supposed" to be your closest partner, your spouse.

It is about whether or not you can trust a man who breaks a promise to his wife and lies for 13 years.

No, you can't





you cant if you insist on assuming a spouse is a persons closest partner

some people get married to the best provider

some get married for the social status

not all get married because they have a 'closeness' to their spouse


Yes I feel justified assuming that your spouse is your closest partner. You are partners by law. You have a legal binding agreement, community property.

If your spouse is NOT your trusted and closest partner you should not be married.

Some people may have had arranged marriages. That may not apply.


ok, so by what your saying is that it is ok to lie about everything else, but not to your spouse?

umm.. whatever...

noway

no photo
Sun 12/04/11 07:10 PM
Edited by Jeanniebean on Sun 12/04/11 07:13 PM
Some of you pretend you don't know what the hell I am talking about.

I'm talking about breaking a VOW of trust then lying about it.

BREAKING A VOW, A TRUST, A PROMISE THEN LYING ABOUT IT FOR 13 YEARS.

It is not just a common "lie."

It is betrayal that hurts the heart, breaks a vow and a contract.

If you can't tell the difference I feel real sorry for you.

To be clear, I don't give a rats butt if he did that to his wife. It is not my personal business. But I would NEVER want him to be the President and I would never vote for a liar and a cheater and a promise breaker.

If that is not crystal clear to all of you who keep defending that kind of deceit and betrayal then there is no moral hope for you and its no wonder our country is being led by corrupt people.

We are doomed. We deserve the crappy leaders we elected.

no photo
Sun 12/04/11 07:15 PM



and when we find the perfect candidate who has

disclosed all their finances
NEVER associated or worked with anyone with questionable backgrounds
NEVER done business with lobbyists
NEVER lied to his wife
and NEVER had or associated with anyone who had former mistakes of judgment or bad choices,,,


I hope someone will share their name with me,,,laugh laugh laugh


in the meantime, lots of imperfect men have accomplished pretty incredible things and been incredible leaders


It is not simply "lying to your wife."

It has to do with a contract and a promise and a vow. It is betrayal. It is not just a little white lie.

It was 13 years too. Damn!

Don't trivialize it.







Im not trivializing,,, just the opposite

the relationship of a marriage is a 24/7 commitment with no training provided, with no documented and specific guidelines or responsibilities, it is one of the HARDEST things to maintain out of all relationships

to use the HARDEST relationship as a gauge of how people handle easier relationships,, is more of a trivialization,,,


its like saying someone not fit enough to finish a 25 mile race must not be fit enough to finish any race,,,


My point is that if his wife can't trust him not to betray HER then I certainly don't want him leading this country.

He will likely be a traitor just like most of congress is.

You can't trust a betrayer. I think in the Bible, the representative was Judas.


msharmony's photo
Sun 12/04/11 07:50 PM




and when we find the perfect candidate who has

disclosed all their finances
NEVER associated or worked with anyone with questionable backgrounds
NEVER done business with lobbyists
NEVER lied to his wife
and NEVER had or associated with anyone who had former mistakes of judgment or bad choices,,,


I hope someone will share their name with me,,,laugh laugh laugh


in the meantime, lots of imperfect men have accomplished pretty incredible things and been incredible leaders


It is not simply "lying to your wife."

It has to do with a contract and a promise and a vow. It is betrayal. It is not just a little white lie.

It was 13 years too. Damn!

Don't trivialize it.







Im not trivializing,,, just the opposite

the relationship of a marriage is a 24/7 commitment with no training provided, with no documented and specific guidelines or responsibilities, it is one of the HARDEST things to maintain out of all relationships

to use the HARDEST relationship as a gauge of how people handle easier relationships,, is more of a trivialization,,,


its like saying someone not fit enough to finish a 25 mile race must not be fit enough to finish any race,,,


My point is that if his wife can't trust him not to betray HER then I certainly don't want him leading this country.

He will likely be a traitor just like most of congress is.

You can't trust a betrayer. I think in the Bible, the representative was Judas.





there are people who should never be married because they cant keep it in their pants

because they take a vow, that affliction manifests as a lie and a betrayal

but the actual affliction isnt that they are characteristically a dishonest betrayer

the affliction is that they have no WILLPOWER over their lust

and flesh lust is a totally different category than any other on this earth, and one that has nothing to do with leadership ability

in my opinion,,,

no photo
Sun 12/04/11 08:01 PM
No no no.

It is NOT about lust or not being able to keep it in your pants.

It is about making the promise of fidelity, taking a vow, and then breaking it.

If you know you can't keep the vow, don't take it.

If you know you can't keep the vow, then at least tell your potential spouse that you can't.

Its about honesty. And as I have said before, apparently honesty is extremely rare.

Vow to live an honest life. Vow to come clean no matter what the consequences. Then and only then can you start fresh and be a new person.

It is like being born again. You first have to repent and truly be sorry and ask for forgiveness, then you have to change your life and make a vow to be honest.

If you can't keep a promise DON'T MAKE THE PROMISE.

IT IS SO FREAKING SIMPLE I don't know why I have to keep saying this.

This is the bottom line.


msharmony's photo
Sun 12/04/11 08:13 PM

No no no.

It is NOT about lust or not being able to keep it in your pants.

It is about making the promise of fidelity, taking a vow, and then breaking it.

If you know you can't keep the vow, don't take it.

If you know you can't keep the vow, then at least tell your potential spouse that you can't.

Its about honesty. And as I have said before, apparently honesty is extremely rare.

Vow to live an honest life. Vow to come clean no matter what the consequences. Then and only then can you start fresh and be a new person.

It is like being born again. You first have to repent and truly be sorry and ask for forgiveness, then you have to change your life and make a vow to be honest.

If you can't keep a promise DON'T MAKE THE PROMISE.

IT IS SO FREAKING SIMPLE I don't know why I have to keep saying this.

This is the bottom line.





in a culture where people believe they cant and shouldnt live without the sex they want, its as much an addiction as alcohol or drugs, and not so easily abandoned by those who have it

that still is not the same issue as a persons ability to be honest in other areas of life though

no photo
Sun 12/04/11 08:18 PM
If you are addicted to "sex" there is nothing wrong with having as much sex as you want. This issue is not about sex.

But if you insist on making it about sex, then the advice would be to stay single, or agree to an open marriage. But don't let society force you into being something you are not. Don't let society force you into taking vows you can't keep.

Yes, honesty is a big challenge. Probably the biggest challenge of all. Very few people are strong enough and brave enough to be true to themselves and others.

But why take vows and make promises you can't or don't intend to keep? Why be dishonest?


no photo
Sun 12/04/11 08:20 PM

If you are addicted to "sex" there is nothing wrong with having as much sex as you want. This issue is not about sex.


Of course there is! Sex addiction is the most common addiction. It destroys lives, just like all other addictions.

msharmony's photo
Sun 12/04/11 08:22 PM

If you are addicted to "sex" there is nothing wrong with having as much sex as you want. This issue is not about sex.

But if you insist on making it about sex, then the advice would be to stay single, or agree to an open marriage. But don't let society force you into being something you are not. Don't let society force you into taking vows you can't keep.

Yes, honesty is a big challenge. Probably the biggest challenge of all. Very few people are strong enough and brave enough to be true to themselves and others.

But why take vows and make promises you can't or don't intend to keep? Why be dishonest?





I dont know. I Think people go in thinking they can handle it because they are still 'excited' about their current sexual partner.

I think at some point, when that initial excitement wears off, they find it somewhere else and still have enough of an attachment or obligation to their marriage to stick it out and 'hope' for some change or strength to come

I agree, these types should not get married. I know though that they do, even when they are generally honest people in life. And that they find ways to justify and procrastinate the pain their addiction is causing just like any other addict does,,,

because addictions feel as if we cant live without them

and our conscious convinces us that if it feels good and it isnt hurting someone (which it cant if they dont know about it), it cant be that bad,,,,

no photo
Sun 12/04/11 09:44 PM
Back to the main topic. Honesty and values.

How honest is a man who breaks a vow and lies about it for 13 years?

I find it difficult to imagine how he did that. Unless his wife knew about it all along and just did not want people to know that she knew.

So maybe she told him to claim that she did not know, making him into a lying villain and her into the victim. The poor unsuspecting wife.

IF this is the case, then she is the villain who would demonize her husband as a liar and betrayer to save her own reputation.

Maybe the truth will come out in the divorce. If there is a divorce.


msharmony's photo
Sun 12/04/11 11:30 PM
another question

How honest is a woman who would hide that she has a child(his) that she aborted from her husband for 13 years?


OR a man who would hide that he was bisexual from his wife of 15 years?


or many other instances where people may be fearful of 'coming clean' and 'being honest', not because they are inherently liars but because they are fearful of the cultural and personal repurcussions of something that is taboo or unaccepted...?


I dont believe any of those situations would indicate to me, by theirself, that the person is generally dishonest

no photo
Sun 12/04/11 11:53 PM

another question

How honest is a woman who would hide that she has a child(his) that she aborted from her husband for 13 years?

OR a man who would hide that he was bisexual from his wife of 15 years?

or many other instances where people may be fearful of 'coming clean' and 'being honest', not because they are inherently liars but because they are fearful of the cultural and personal repurcussions of something that is taboo or unaccepted...?


I dont believe any of those situations would indicate to me, by theirself, that the person is generally dishonest




I told you that honesty is one of a person's greatest challenges of all. Not many people can be honest.

Everyone wants to be loved and accepted. So they hide their secrets well.


msharmony's photo
Sun 12/04/11 11:57 PM


another question

How honest is a woman who would hide that she has a child(his) that she aborted from her husband for 13 years?

OR a man who would hide that he was bisexual from his wife of 15 years?

or many other instances where people may be fearful of 'coming clean' and 'being honest', not because they are inherently liars but because they are fearful of the cultural and personal repurcussions of something that is taboo or unaccepted...?


I dont believe any of those situations would indicate to me, by theirself, that the person is generally dishonest




I told you that honesty is one of a person's greatest challenges of all. Not many people can be honest.

Everyone wants to be loved and accepted. So they hide their secrets well.





aint that the truth,,

TheCaptain's photo
Mon 12/05/11 12:08 AM
Just a thought......

How do you feel about JFK???

no photo
Mon 12/05/11 12:21 AM

Just a thought......

How do you feel about JFK???


I voted for the other guy.

TheCaptain's photo
Mon 12/05/11 12:24 AM
He is considered to be one of the best Presidents of all time, and he had a long standing affair with Marilyn Monroe. And its not like it was a big secret either.

no photo
Mon 12/05/11 12:26 AM

He is considered to be one of the best Presidents of all time, and he had a long standing affair with Marilyn Monroe. And its not like it was a big secret either.


laugh laugh

Back then, the press had more class than to engage in scandals.
Now you can't get anything BUT scandals.laugh laugh