I'm a nice guy, but even I am getting tired of these nice guy threads.

Gotta admit, saw this topic and thought, "great, here we go ", lol surprisingly there wasn't a lot of negative anything on here...

Had a rant all ready to go lol, but erased it and put this sentence in it's place.

Just had the conversation with a few male friends. They agree with me that nice guys are manipulative, clingy, and whining momma's boys. Personally if I were to date; I want a normal guy; sometimes he is nice and sometimes not. I would be suspicious of a guy that is always nice as I would think he had no back bone and any guy that states he is a nice guy is probably hiding something. I met a proclaimed "nice guy" and he hit me from behind and almost broke my neck. I have had lots of bad incidents with so called "nice guys". I also don't want a bad boy as again I don't like getting hit or treated like crap. I have male friends that are nice guys and they have never ever walked around proclaiming they are nice guys which is a hell of a lot more attractive than whining about nice guys finishing last.

I agree with this. I hate guys wanting to fix or change things. When I am having problems; I appreciate it if he just gave me his ear to vent not solve them as it feels like he is taking over or trying to take control which I really resent.

Well, it isn't. It's about having a proper relationship where you talk about your feelings about each other and being honest.

I control nobody but I'm through with taking a lot of crap from women about what's wrong with me and how I've got to change to suit them and just being a "nice guy" (AKA doormat) about it.

I didn't say that talking to them about how they treat me isn't trying to get them to change. I said that it isn't about control. I've got no ex girlfriends saying that being with me was horrible, or that I was a control freak. "Too much like hard work" perhaps but not a bad guy.

I don't even know if we're talking about the same thing. Change, in itself, isn't a bad thing and some people actually want to change. I had a girlfriend that told me that she was trying to be a good person and that I had made her feel better about herself. When I met her, she felt unatractive and undesirable. She had a whole load of problems and I really was just trying to be a nice guy and make the relationship work.

For whatever reason, I seem to atract women that have problems. It happened again to me recently. I met a girl and her problems were one of the first things that she told me about and it was like a warning. After what I've been through the red flags went up for sure. I liked her as a person though and I'm a caring sort of guy, so what do you want me to do? Do I think that I can solve all of her problems and "fix" her? No but I can maybe help her to be the person that she wants to be and is. It's not about wanting to change somebody into somebody else. It's about talking about feelings and issues. It's about not just giving up on somebody because there are difficulties in your relationship.

Sorry I have been hurt quite a number of times in relationships...as we all have, and still find it unacceptable to mistreat or disrespect a woman. Women are equal and should be treated as such.

No, it really isn't about control at all. It is about talking about feelings and issues and everyone has the right to say what their boundaries are and how they want to be treated. Control is about stopping someone from doing things like hanging about with other people and telling them what to wear and checking their phone and constantly wanting to know what they are doing and who they are with etc. I'm not about that at all.

If a girl chooses to talk to me about her problems, then she's initiating that conversation and looking for understanding, if not help. You are probably right as far as it being best to not go there if they tell you that they aren't ready for a relationship and I avoid those ones now but the last girl that I met said that she does want a relationship and even though she has problems that might make it difficult, I'm prepared to see how it goes. I'm doing nothing to control her and I have made no demands on her at all. If it does develop into a relationship it's only going to do so if we both accept each other for who we are but that doesn't mean that you can't grow as a person and change by being in a relationship. I've certainly changed because of the relationships that I've had with women and even if they haven't worked out, I think that I'm a better person from having been in those relationships.

Are you saying nice guys are short-bussers?

My old lady told me to quit trying to fix her.
That is, until she wanted money for me to fix her boobs.

If you are claiming to be a nice guy, then you obviously don't have enough faith in your "niceness" to be able to shine through on its own. It's the same as saying you have a big ****, you're obviously lying to get them to think you are bigger than you can prove. BTW, I am average and proud of it, it's kinda of nice actually LOL ;-)

I have complete faith in my niceness.

Oh, and my penis grants wishes, but that's getting off topic.

I don't see niceness as being related in any way to a passive personality; or being a pushover. They're completely different things. I think men with passive personalities are often labeled "nice guys" due to the unlikelihood that they will disagree with anything or confront anyone, when in truth you may never really know the mind or demeanor of a passive person...as by nature they are not as forthcoming about themselves for fear of initializing conflict.

On the other hand, aggressive personalities are not all bad boys either. Plenty of aggressive, go getters, thrill seeker types are very loving, passionate, respectful, nice guys and a great deal of fun too.

Same reason nice women do when it comes to having men?

:*** u are cute

Honestly, a lot of people think they have to put their best foot forward when meeting someone for the first time. Why? Be yourself or you are not being honest. Do not try to hide who you really are. If you are a nice guy then great but if you are not a nice guy, then don't play like you are.
One thing I do NOT like is a "yes" man. No matter what you say or do it is always yes dear. WTH? To me they are fake when they are a yes man and they are trying to hide something.
The way I look at it, I am who I am...if you don't like it, keep walking. I really don't remember saying I actually needed anyone in my life, I am not fake and I refuse to let anyone walk on me. IF I know they are a liar, I will tell them exactly how it is. LOL I am me!!!

Cause you guys aren't willing to do what it takes to get her BUT you do stand a better chance at keeping her!
So cheer up!

I learned the hard way that being a nice guy don't pay

Maybe you're not doing it right. The biggest reward is usually self satisfaction.