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| Topic: Welfare Queens? | |
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Where do you think division, over population, crime and other such problems stem from? since there have been these things since the BEGINNING Of our founding,, Id say it certainly doesn't stem from taxes or welfare more from the greed that has been born from capitalism , the desperation that has been born from disparate opportunities and the accompanying caste systems that have developed from them, self centeredness which is part of human nature that is encouraged and promoted in our general 'me and mine' culture, and a general disregard for the value of other humans and their lives,,,, in a culture where the individual is only as valuable as their monetary earnings(taxes),,,,people that have been left out of being 'valued' have gotten colder as have the people who believe and support the continued philosophy that they shouldn't be valued and what makes you believe that Conservatives are Capitalists? 
what makes you think I was speaking about conservatives?,,,, I only stated certain 'character' attributes within a culture that lead to the 'division, over population, crime and other such problems' well,wasn't your Original Post about Conservatives? 
yes,, but the conversation has evolved and my reference to capitalism was in response to a question about division, over population, crime and other such problems you're still way off the mark concerning Capitalism! what did I say about 'capitalism'? except to refer to the GREED that it has contributed to in AMERICA? perhaps there is some political label better than 'capitalism' that can keep the concept of 'capitalism' the orgasmic ideal some people believe it to be but whatever that ideal is,, aint what we have, but it is what we call 'capitalism' nonetheless,,, |
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Edited by
Sojourning_Soul
on
Thu 05/22/14 11:05 AM
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Where do you think division, over population, crime and other such problems stem from? since there have been these things since the BEGINNING Of our founding,, Id say it certainly doesn't stem from taxes or welfare more from the greed that has been born from capitalism , the desperation that has been born from disparate opportunities and the accompanying caste systems that have developed from them, self centeredness which is part of human nature that is encouraged and promoted in our general 'me and mine' culture, and a general disregard for the value of other humans and their lives,,,, in a culture where the individual is only as valuable as their monetary earnings(taxes),,,,people that have been left out of being 'valued' have gotten colder as have the people who believe and support the continued philosophy that they shouldn't be valued and what makes you believe that Conservatives are Capitalists?
what makes you think I was speaking about conservatives?,,,, I only stated certain 'character' attributes within a culture that lead to the 'division, over population, crime and other such problems' well,wasn't your Original Post about Conservatives?
yes,, but the conversation has evolved and my reference to capitalism was in response to a question about division, over population, crime and other such problems you're still way off the mark concerning Capitalism! what did I say about 'capitalism'? except to refer to the GREED that it has contributed to in AMERICA? perhaps there is some political label better than 'capitalism' that can keep the concept of 'capitalism' the orgasmic ideal some people believe it to be but whatever that ideal is,, aint what we have, but it is what we call 'capitalism' nonetheless,,, Try "CRONY" capitalism or fascism.....a different horse of another color all together |
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then there should also be a 'crony marxism',, or 'crony communism'
because the ideals, or what these governments are SUPPOSED to be are desirable and reasonable, just what they turn out to be which is not,,, |
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Where do you think division, over population, crime and other such problems stem from? since there have been these things since the BEGINNING Of our founding,, Id say it certainly doesn't stem from taxes or welfare more from the greed that has been born from capitalism , the desperation that has been born from disparate opportunities and the accompanying caste systems that have developed from them, self centeredness which is part of human nature that is encouraged and promoted in our general 'me and mine' culture, and a general disregard for the value of other humans and their lives,,,, in a culture where the individual is only as valuable as their monetary earnings(taxes),,,,people that have been left out of being 'valued' have gotten colder as have the people who believe and support the continued philosophy that they shouldn't be valued and what makes you believe that Conservatives are Capitalists?
what makes you think I was speaking about conservatives?,,,, I only stated certain 'character' attributes within a culture that lead to the 'division, over population, crime and other such problems' well,wasn't your Original Post about Conservatives?
yes,, but the conversation has evolved and my reference to capitalism was in response to a question about division, over population, crime and other such problems you're still way off the mark concerning Capitalism! what did I say about 'capitalism'? except to refer to the GREED that it has contributed to in AMERICA? perhaps there is some political label better than 'capitalism' that can keep the concept of 'capitalism' the orgasmic ideal some people believe it to be but whatever that ideal is,, aint what we have, but it is what we call 'capitalism' nonetheless,,, you are still stuck in Statism! and it doesn't matter what you call Capitalism,because it ain't Capitalism because "we" say it is! All so far you have referred to are sundry Statist Systems and have blamed their Evils on Capitalism! In a capitalist society, all human relationships are voluntary. Men are free to cooperate or not, to deal with one another or not, as their own individual judgments, convictions, and interests dictate." | Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal "In a free economy, where no man or group of men can use physical coercion against anyone, economic power can be achieved only by voluntary means: by the voluntary choice and agreement of all those who participate in the process of production and trade." | Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal you all mean to coerce instead of convince! http://aynrandlexicon.com/lexicon/capitalism.html http://mises.org/ do some reading,it ain't gonna hurt!
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then there should also be a 'crony marxism',, or 'crony communism' because the ideals, or what these governments are SUPPOSED to be are desirable and reasonable, just what they turn out to be which is not,,, actually that's what Cronyism turns into!
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then there should also be a 'crony marxism',, or 'crony communism' because the ideals, or what these governments are SUPPOSED to be are desirable and reasonable, just what they turn out to be which is not,,, 
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Edited by
msharmony
on
Thu 05/22/14 11:26 AM
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Where do you think division, over population, crime and other such problems stem from? since there have been these things since the BEGINNING Of our founding,, Id say it certainly doesn't stem from taxes or welfare more from the greed that has been born from capitalism , the desperation that has been born from disparate opportunities and the accompanying caste systems that have developed from them, self centeredness which is part of human nature that is encouraged and promoted in our general 'me and mine' culture, and a general disregard for the value of other humans and their lives,,,, in a culture where the individual is only as valuable as their monetary earnings(taxes),,,,people that have been left out of being 'valued' have gotten colder as have the people who believe and support the continued philosophy that they shouldn't be valued and what makes you believe that Conservatives are Capitalists?
what makes you think I was speaking about conservatives?,,,, I only stated certain 'character' attributes within a culture that lead to the 'division, over population, crime and other such problems' well,wasn't your Original Post about Conservatives?
yes,, but the conversation has evolved and my reference to capitalism was in response to a question about division, over population, crime and other such problems you're still way off the mark concerning Capitalism! what did I say about 'capitalism'? except to refer to the GREED that it has contributed to in AMERICA? perhaps there is some political label better than 'capitalism' that can keep the concept of 'capitalism' the orgasmic ideal some people believe it to be but whatever that ideal is,, aint what we have, but it is what we call 'capitalism' nonetheless,,, you are still stuck in Statism! and it doesn't matter what you call Capitalism,because it ain't Capitalism because "we" say it is! All so far you have referred to are sundry Statist Systems and have blamed their Evils on Capitalism! In a capitalist society, all human relationships are voluntary. Men are free to cooperate or not, to deal with one another or not, as their own individual judgments, convictions, and interests dictate." | Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal "In a free economy, where no man or group of men can use physical coercion against anyone, economic power can be achieved only by voluntary means: by the voluntary choice and agreement of all those who participate in the process of production and trade." | Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal you all mean to coerce instead of convince! http://aynrandlexicon.com/lexicon/capitalism.html http://mises.org/ do some reading,it ain't gonna hurt!
and like he contradiction between the definition of socialism and how its been implemented the problem with the above IDEAL is this 'coercion' is not always of the physical in nature, and can indeed be present even when there is 'choice' because EVERYTHING is a choice,,, even if it is under coercion or duress so, If I own the means of production, and control the money, I control those who need things and money, even if I give them 'choices' about how to attain them its a choice to say do you want to have shelter or not most will choose YES and if I control exactly HOW and WHAT you must do to acquire that shelter, that choice is diminished in its intrinsic value as 'choice' so we can say its all good because we 'voluntarily' agreed to work 40 hours to earn 100 bucks, but its still bs if the only other 'choice' we had was volunteer to the offered wage or starve,,,, just like in socialism, it is all good to say each will have what they need and give what they can but it becomes bs when it is a small group Who get to decide what that is for everyone else,,, |
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entitlements are balanced toward children and their mothers so it can only be concluded without knowing the actual numbers that the lions share goes to these unwed mothers, at least in the latter two categories and at least a majority share in the first. NOT REALLY, the 'entitlement' that goes to children is called TANF, and there is no requirement that the mothers be single or unmarried, married couples may also receive TANF which is awarded based upon household income AND that is but ONE of the 'entitlement' programs that take government spending unemployment, food stamps, and Medicaid are also means tested programs which have no requirement for and are not focused on mothers and their kids,,,,, there are DOZENS of means tested assistance programs that aren't geared towards single moms and their kids, collectively, making up MUCH more of the 'entitlement' spending but we usually only hear about the women taking care of Americas children,, and how awful they are to accept help and how awful it is that Americans are 'forced' to provide that help When it comes to entitlements, I have to bow to you, you seem uniquely qualified to be the expert on where and how to qualify for each. That point is stipulated. However, when it comes to the logic of entitlements, there you and expert seem to part company. But now back to the subject at hand, the exposure of so biased an article, so biased as to render it little more than a rant with no reliable facts. But to see you stand up and defend the indefensible, about normal. And no matter how it is twisted, to try and make moral what is little more than theft is reprehensible. Latin says it best, malum in se, a wrong unto itself, patently evil, in defiance of natural law. |
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entitlements are balanced toward children and their mothers so it can only be concluded without knowing the actual numbers that the lions share goes to these unwed mothers, at least in the latter two categories and at least a majority share in the first. NOT REALLY, the 'entitlement' that goes to children is called TANF, and there is no requirement that the mothers be single or unmarried, married couples may also receive TANF which is awarded based upon household income AND that is but ONE of the 'entitlement' programs that take government spending unemployment, food stamps, and Medicaid are also means tested programs which have no requirement for and are not focused on mothers and their kids,,,,, there are DOZENS of means tested assistance programs that aren't geared towards single moms and their kids, collectively, making up MUCH more of the 'entitlement' spending but we usually only hear about the women taking care of Americas children,, and how awful they are to accept help and how awful it is that Americans are 'forced' to provide that help The key word being "FORCED"! An entitlement backed by wealth stolen from others is no less an entitlement or an incentive not to provide for yourself when others are mandated to provide for you! Making everyone else poorer is NOT helping society! It defies nature and creates or expands the numbers in poverty and the problems associated with it, never allowing the herd to be culled for the betterment of the species Where do you think division, over population, crime and other such problems stem from? It's unsustainable and will cause what we are seeing today..... a nation of entitlement breeders in financial demise, brought about by abusing and destroying a system meant for those of actual need! When it MUST be done, who do we deny? The welfare mom or the wounded warrior? The cripple or the elderly? The elderly have paid into a system, the warrior has fought and paid for it, a cripple has no recourse..... bye-bye welfare and anchor baby moms! Who will you blame then? When there is no benefit to defending your country (which this POTUS, his liberal senate and his admin are already implementing), as our returning warriors are considered "threats to national security" and their benefits are already being cut, do we put our welfare recipients or poor on the battle lines? Until we have leadership that ACTUALLY addresses the problem rather than expanding it, quits taxing and spending us into oblivion, and propping up banks and corporations on the backs of the people through corporate welfare, QE, bailouts, tax holidays and cuts, our demise continues! And then there is foreign aid, 700 military bases in 180 countries, senate retirement packages...... and the list goes on....... If you're going to BLAME someone, make sure it's the right someone..... or you're part of the problem, NOT the solution! I agree 99% with all this, but the 1%, you can't blame the kids, they didn't ask for this. But in reality, that is not a problem, there are so many that would volunteer to rescue those kids in a heart beat, give them a warm and caring home and teach them value. The mom's, once the kids are weaned (so important for a child to have mother's milk, their whole cycle of health depends on it) they can return to the gutter where they belong. |
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Absolutely correct, just where in the constitution does it say the a$$holes get anything? The Senators and Representatives shall receive a Compensation for their Services, to be ascertained by Law, and paid out of the Treasury of the United States. The President shall, at stated Times, receive for his Services, a Compensation, which shall neither be increased nor diminished during the Period for which he shall have been elected, and he shall not receive within that Period any other Emolument from the United States, or any of them. So just where does it say that they receive anything when the door hits them in the butt? It doesn't, just another criminal act. And soldiers outside our borders and actually even within is likewise prohibited. No mother should ever have to send another sibling to die in some strange land. The militia is for defense of the country, a rifle behind every blade of grass. And even Social Security needs to be terminated. Without the fed and with real money, if you take that same 6.2% with the matching 6.2% and put it away, nobody would be suffering in retirement. But it wont work with fiat currency, a 1913 dollar has only kept 4% of it's value, not conducive to saving, that hidden tax, inflation, eats away at the principle. |
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Where do you think division, over population, crime and other such problems stem from? since there have been these things since the BEGINNING Of our founding,, Id say it certainly doesn't stem from taxes or welfare more from the greed that has been born from capitalism , the desperation that has been born from disparate opportunities and the accompanying caste systems that have developed from them, self centeredness which is part of human nature that is encouraged and promoted in our general 'me and mine' culture, and a general disregard for the value of other humans and their lives,,,, in a culture where the individual is only as valuable as their monetary earnings(taxes),,,,people that have been left out of being 'valued' have gotten colder as have the people who believe and support the continued philosophy that they shouldn't be valued Absolutely complete bull. It was not there at the founding, people understood it was either do or die. Capitalism, you little understand that concept, there is no entitlement there. Capitalism is the trade of value for value, there is no room for entitlement there. If you can't earn it, you can't have it. No, this has turned into a culture when some think they are entitled to the effort of others without expending any effort of their own outside demanding the government to use coercion to take from others. You can twist and spin until you are blue in the face, but it does not change matters, armed robbery is armed robbery, doesn't matter whom holds the gun. |
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1st, I didn't 'blame' capitalism, I 'blamed' the greed which (in our country) has come FrOM the capitalism Still blame everywhere but where it belongs, internal. 2nd. IF blaming others accomplishes nothing, I guess this whole thread is irrelevant, since those here are obviously 'blaming' someone ; from the 'entitlement crowd', or something like taxes (or as you call it 'forced' contributions) Not really, it is the entitlement crowd that is the cause, crony capitalism is but the effect. Seems the entitlement crowd spends huge blocks of time concentrating on symptoms and effects but never addresses the cause, get off their lazy butts and take care of themselves, problem solved, symptoms and effects vanish. 3rd, Isnt it ironic to claim I am blaming resources as my crutch, while blaming resources as the source of Americas problems? Irony, not really, lack of knowledge, ignorance of the rule of cause and effect. Every effect has a cause. When one steals from the capable to give to the incapable, it doesn't raise the incapable, it cripples the capable. But what is ironic is the claim that the capable has some kind of resource not available to the incapable with effort. Just a big bag of excuses. 4th. I haven't 'blamed' anyone or anything about my personal situation. I don't have the tunnelvision that can only see myself. My contribution is in reference to the GENERAL topic of those in need or facing hard times. |
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In a capitalist society, all human relationships are voluntary. Men are free to cooperate or not, to deal with one another or not, as their own individual judgments, convictions, and interests dictate." | Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal http://aynrandlexicon.com/lexicon/selfishness.html Man has the unlimited ability to contract. For some, that is the object of unlimited capitalist activity. But for most, that is the object of their destruction. The object of contract is a very simple concept to learn with minimal effort, for those willing to try. But for the masses, they just prefer to make the choice to remain ignorant of the concept, but then to enter into contracts. Any wonder they keep waking up with KY jelly all over their backside and still wondering just what happened. Of course there is always a lawyer, that for a nice fee, will demonstrate to them just where they went wrong, don't really change matters but the lawyer can afford a new car. |
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indeed they do, but in speaking about AMERICA, the details aren't identical to all other systems,,, where there is greed, desperation, disparate opportunity, self centeredess and a disregard for human life,, and when it is masked as the healthy and 'earned' norm you get exactly what we have,,,, Somewhat true from a naive point of view. Take Cuba, the people already know they have a dictator that took all their guns. No one is so disillusioned as to believe that they own anything, even themselves, that can't be taken on a whim of some government official. But here in America, the vast majority of the masses are totally delusional. First, they believe they live in a democracy. Then they believe they elect someone to represent them. And those representatives are supposed to inhibit their adversaries, steal their property, and share the bounty with their supporters. Guess what they got it. Guess what, they got it, but they forgot to buy the program and are confused about the players. First, this is a republic and only the volunteers, remember the 14th and those subject to?, fall under the democracy. Second, the representation part isn't about votes, it's about supporters, you know those with the money, the real votes. Third, they do inhibit their adversaries, the voters that volunteered to be bound to representation, and steal they do, from everywhere, and not just their voters, all the way to "Corruption of Blood, or Forfeiture", your children and all future generations. But the best, they do share the bounty, with their cronies, crony capitalism. But they do share the scraps with the entitlement crowd to keep those votes coming and the sheeple placid. And that is exactly what we have, but the deniers will just ignore and cry themselves to sleep, whining, if only the other team was in charge. |
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The meaning ascribed in popular usage to the word selfishness is not merely wrong: it represents a devastating intellectual package-deal,which is responsible, more than any other single factor, for the arrested moral development of mankind. In popular usage, the word selfishness is a synonym of evil; the image it conjures is of a murderous brute who tramples over piles of corpses to achieve his own ends, who cares for no living being and pursues nothing but the gratification of the mindless whims of any immediate moment. Yet the exact meaning and dictionary definition of the word selfishness is: concern with one's own interests. This concept does not include a moral evaluation; it does not tell us whether concern with one's own interests is good or evil; nor does it tell us what constitutes man's actual interests. It is the task of ethics to answer such questions. So true, the first instance you name would best be described as psychopathic: of, relating to, or characterized by psychopathy or antisocial personality disorder. This seems to be the trait of those drawn to government and the power that can be assumed, the psychopathic statist. But if everyone were to become selfish and practice selfishness, this would be a wonderful world. There each man would mind his own business that it not fall into disarray. The fallacy lies with those that have no time to mind their own affairs because they are too busy minding their neighbors, the infamous democracy. |
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and what makes you believe that Conservatives are Capitalists?
Seems that connotation would be a$$ backwards. Capitalist could be conservative, capitalist could be liberals, but neither conservatives nor liberals are necessarily capitalist. |
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I didn't use the term 'selfish', which is healthy for humans to be,, I used the term 'self centered', which is not healthy for humans to be if they wish to live within a family unit, a community, a city, a town, a village, a city, a state,,,etc,,,,, the idea that we matter (Selfish) is good,, the idea that ALL That matters is us (self centeredness) is not,,,, 
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Pure unadulterated Marxist Guff! Who is John Galt? Does the Taggart line run to Starnesville? Can't wait until September. |
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It seems many forget whom they are addressing here..... an Obozo supporter! Of course she is Marxist in her beliefs! Oh, much, much worse than that!!! |
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any discussion on the TOPIC would be nice ad hominem and stereotypes do little to contribute to the actual conversation,,, ty 
That was on the topic and what conversation? 
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