Topic: Defending President Obama
no photo
Wed 09/10/14 08:02 AM




Its reverse discrimination. Frankly im suprised my post wasent blocked when i said that a lot of blacks are recially biased..... usually you cant cry racism if your white. (EXPECIALLY A WHITE MALE.) its for everyone else. When i graduated from school in '79, i could have had a job with michigan parks dept. The problem was they HAD to hire a black. They already had thier lesbian, thier mexican and thier native american..., The job went unfilled for three years because at that time there was one (1) black family in this area.
[/quote

quotas are illegal,, UNLESS There is a legal injunction as a RESULT of proven discrimination,, if your company HAD to hire a black, its because they were proven to discriminate against them and the fact of not having black applicants would have easily prevented such proof from happening,, so maybe you didn't know all the facts when you chose to believe it was 'just' because you are white,, and the job wasn't filled because of 'no blacks in the area'


but, ya know,,, if you really believe white folks have a disadvantage because they are overlooked for jobs due to race,,, that's a perception , we all have them

the job was for the State of Michigan, back when womens lib,ect. was really thick and there were a lot of quotas that didnt make sense at that time. ( in this area where there as literally no one to fill these quotas) Also i know that there are sometimes different tests for college entrance exams depending on race..., how is that fair to me? how is that fair to an employer who expects someone to be "equally qualified". ?
I know of a lesbian back in the day who, if she wanted a promotioon, would accuse her boss of sexual harassment. back then they didnt question her, they just took her word as fact and fired the superviser. Seen it too many times. reverse discrimination is alive and well today also...



the ignorance of others is an issue they need to resolve

STate jobs cannot have quotas , if it could be proven , it could be litigated and won


it is likewise not legal to give applicants to a college a DIFFERENT test based upon race,, if and when that is true, it is a prosecutable offense

I don't know what 'equally qualified' means, in this discussion

employers never have been legally required to hire underqualified applicants, though, throughout history they certainly have found ways to do so for family members, and family of friends,,,fellow schoolmates children,,etc,,,




they most certainly DID HAVE QUOTAS BACK THEN...
OH and you bring up another good point. .. I have a case against the State police for brutality, filing false reports, coorecing witnsses ect. EVERY law firm i have talked to about this tells me the same story: if i were anything but a white man i would have a multi million dollar lawsuit. No one wants to see a white man yelling foul. Never gonna go anywhere. i have come to accept this truth.

msharmony's photo
Wed 09/10/14 08:02 AM
Edited by msharmony on Wed 09/10/14 08:03 AM
is there a passport check to verify nationality when they pick these people up? who has organized to pick them up?

who is organizing for the day care?

who is paying for their lunch?

are whites in the area barred from participating in such programs when they cannot afford them?

Native americans are bound to contracts called TREATIES< cause, well, it was the price paid to take their crap from them,,,,

casinos are probably not significant payment for what they would have had or what they rightfully should get out of the deal

all foreigners come here and get tax breaks,, not just arabs
the price for wanting to be globally competitive


I do remember Rodney king,, my read, people were sick of black peoples lives not seeming to be valued BY THE LAW,, Rodney was a last straw in a string of incidents where blacks were brutalized or killed with little consequence,,,

msharmony's photo
Wed 09/10/14 08:03 AM





Its reverse discrimination. Frankly im suprised my post wasent blocked when i said that a lot of blacks are recially biased..... usually you cant cry racism if your white. (EXPECIALLY A WHITE MALE.) its for everyone else. When i graduated from school in '79, i could have had a job with michigan parks dept. The problem was they HAD to hire a black. They already had thier lesbian, thier mexican and thier native american..., The job went unfilled for three years because at that time there was one (1) black family in this area.
[/quote

quotas are illegal,, UNLESS There is a legal injunction as a RESULT of proven discrimination,, if your company HAD to hire a black, its because they were proven to discriminate against them and the fact of not having black applicants would have easily prevented such proof from happening,, so maybe you didn't know all the facts when you chose to believe it was 'just' because you are white,, and the job wasn't filled because of 'no blacks in the area'


but, ya know,,, if you really believe white folks have a disadvantage because they are overlooked for jobs due to race,,, that's a perception , we all have them

the job was for the State of Michigan, back when womens lib,ect. was really thick and there were a lot of quotas that didnt make sense at that time. ( in this area where there as literally no one to fill these quotas) Also i know that there are sometimes different tests for college entrance exams depending on race..., how is that fair to me? how is that fair to an employer who expects someone to be "equally qualified". ?
I know of a lesbian back in the day who, if she wanted a promotioon, would accuse her boss of sexual harassment. back then they didnt question her, they just took her word as fact and fired the superviser. Seen it too many times. reverse discrimination is alive and well today also...



the ignorance of others is an issue they need to resolve

STate jobs cannot have quotas , if it could be proven , it could be litigated and won


it is likewise not legal to give applicants to a college a DIFFERENT test based upon race,, if and when that is true, it is a prosecutable offense

I don't know what 'equally qualified' means, in this discussion

employers never have been legally required to hire underqualified applicants, though, throughout history they certainly have found ways to do so for family members, and family of friends,,,fellow schoolmates children,,etc,,,




they most certainly DID HAVE QUOTAS BACK THEN...
OH and you bring up another good point. .. I have a case against the State police for brutality, filing false reports, coorecing witnsses ect. EVERY law firm i have talked to about this tells me the same story: if i were anything but a white man i would have a multi million dollar lawsuit. No one wants to see a white man yelling foul. Never gonna go anywhere. i have come to accept this truth.



lol, sounds like you live in a racist community,, they could just tell you they aren't equipped to win your case,,

but, well, its human ,, accept whatever is easiest to accept

no photo
Wed 09/10/14 08:11 AM
not r dirt, just the facts maam. also I agree that we havent had a 'good president" in ages. Certainly not in my lifetime. however, to say "everyone else is doing it" is not an excuse. tax breaks for the rich? Ever had a job from a poor person? EVERYONE needs a tax break. i would call that a START. I WOULD START BY CUTTING EVERY TAX BY 50 PERCENT.., It has been proven historically that the lower the taxes the better the economy, and ultimetly the more money they make. Taxing the rich is a form of communism, " a heavy and PROGRESSIVE" Income tax is one of the 10 planks. there should be a flat tax, the same for everyone. If we want to point fingers at other presidents for our current mess, i would start with Clinton..,he started the "fair trade" thingy which is now why all our factories and thier secure, hi paying jobs are overseas and everyone works at mcdonalds. There are very few craftsman out there anymnore..., I cant find anyone who either wants to work or is able to do said work. I could be running about 12 service vans right now if i could staff them. everyone with college educations are working poart time because employers cant afford to compete with china and also provide obama care. Shall i continue? signed, i must be racist for saying all this.

no photo
Wed 09/10/14 08:17 AM

is there a passport check to verify nationality when they pick these people up? who has organized to pick them up?

who is organizing for the day care?

who is paying for their lunch?

are whites in the area barred from participating in such programs when they cannot afford them?

Native americans are bound to contracts called TREATIES< cause, well, it was the price paid to take their crap from them,,,,

casinos are probably not significant payment for what they would have had or what they rightfully should get out of the deal

all foreigners come here and get tax breaks,, not just arabs
the price for wanting to be globally competitive


I do remember Rodney king,, my read, people were sick of black peoples lives not seeming to be valued BY THE LAW,, Rodney was a last straw in a string of incidents where blacks were brutalized or killed with little consequence,,,


when you have rights that i dont, that is discrimination. the factories organise all that... probably because most whites wont get off thier couches and work for minimum wage. i know i wont...I dont leave the shop in a service van for less than 100.00 anymore.

no photo
Wed 09/10/14 08:22 AM
Edited by rambill79 on Wed 09/10/14 08:28 AM
i know that police IN CALI are equal oppertunity opressors. I went there for a visit, and saw a cop in a park. i stopped to ask directions. I was in a vette, with a michigan plate... I ended up face in the concrete, maced, and arrested. All i wanted was directions to the freeway.
I do know this... my roomate in college was Black, he did say that there was no reason for him to have a nice car. He said that if he tried to drive accross town. ( grand rapids) in a nice car he wouldent make it without being stopped and harassed ,, so i am aware that police are very racist.I know several US MAESHALLS, two are members of the kkk. I dont trust any cops., this has nothing to do with Obama of course,it is an old problem but from my chair i know from personal experience that they will hassle you if yhey think you cant or wont fight back. The good people out there of all races have a common enemy in my opinion, Until there is some recourse for when the cops are the bad guys it will only get worse at least the minorities tend to stick together, you cant get any white to get off thier couch long enough to protest,, there is always a ball game that night. it will be "my peoples" undoing in my opinion.

no photo
Wed 09/10/14 08:29 AM






Its reverse discrimination. Frankly im suprised my post wasent blocked when i said that a lot of blacks are recially biased..... usually you cant cry racism if your white. (EXPECIALLY A WHITE MALE.) its for everyone else. When i graduated from school in '79, i could have had a job with michigan parks dept. The problem was they HAD to hire a black. They already had thier lesbian, thier mexican and thier native american..., The job went unfilled for three years because at that time there was one (1) black family in this area.
[/quote

quotas are illegal,, UNLESS There is a legal injunction as a RESULT of proven discrimination,, if your company HAD to hire a black, its because they were proven to discriminate against them and the fact of not having black applicants would have easily prevented such proof from happening,, so maybe you didn't know all the facts when you chose to believe it was 'just' because you are white,, and the job wasn't filled because of 'no blacks in the area'


but, ya know,,, if you really believe white folks have a disadvantage because they are overlooked for jobs due to race,,, that's a perception , we all have them

the job was for the State of Michigan, back when womens lib,ect. was really thick and there were a lot of quotas that didnt make sense at that time. ( in this area where there as literally no one to fill these quotas) Also i know that there are sometimes different tests for college entrance exams depending on race..., how is that fair to me? how is that fair to an employer who expects someone to be "equally qualified". ?
I know of a lesbian back in the day who, if she wanted a promotioon, would accuse her boss of sexual harassment. back then they didnt question her, they just took her word as fact and fired the superviser. Seen it too many times. reverse discrimination is alive and well today also...



the ignorance of others is an issue they need to resolve

STate jobs cannot have quotas , if it could be proven , it could be litigated and won


it is likewise not legal to give applicants to a college a DIFFERENT test based upon race,, if and when that is true, it is a prosecutable offense

I don't know what 'equally qualified' means, in this discussion

employers never have been legally required to hire underqualified applicants, though, throughout history they certainly have found ways to do so for family members, and family of friends,,,fellow schoolmates children,,etc,,,




they most certainly DID HAVE QUOTAS BACK THEN...
OH and you bring up another good point. .. I have a case against the State police for brutality, filing false reports, coorecing witnsses ect. EVERY law firm i have talked to about this tells me the same story: if i were anything but a white man i would have a multi million dollar lawsuit. No one wants to see a white man yelling foul. Never gonna go anywhere. i have come to accept this truth.



lol, sounds like you live in a racist community,, they could just tell you they aren't equipped to win your case,,

but, well, its human ,, accept whatever is easiest to accept

it is just the way it is.. there is a big difference between what the law says and what will work in court. here anyway. i can asure you that if i were a woman or a minority i would be a multi millionaire and there would be 2 state police in prison now. i would go buy thier houses at auction and then have the fire dept burn them lol. never gonna happen until perceptions change.

msharmony's photo
Wed 09/10/14 09:10 AM

not r dirt, just the facts maam. also I agree that we havent had a 'good president" in ages. Certainly not in my lifetime. however, to say "everyone else is doing it" is not an excuse. tax breaks for the rich? Ever had a job from a poor person? EVERYONE needs a tax break. i would call that a START. I WOULD START BY CUTTING EVERY TAX BY 50 PERCENT.., It has been proven historically that the lower the taxes the better the economy, and ultimetly the more money they make. Taxing the rich is a form of communism, " a heavy and PROGRESSIVE" Income tax is one of the 10 planks. there should be a flat tax, the same for everyone. If we want to point fingers at other presidents for our current mess, i would start with Clinton..,he started the "fair trade" thingy which is now why all our factories and thier secure, hi paying jobs are overseas and everyone works at mcdonalds. There are very few craftsman out there anymnore..., I cant find anyone who either wants to work or is able to do said work. I could be running about 12 service vans right now if i could staff them. everyone with college educations are working poart time because employers cant afford to compete with china and also provide obama care. Shall i continue? signed, i must be racist for saying all this.



nope not racist at all for saying it

though its a lot of questionable claims


especially the idea that lowered corporate rates helps job production,,,is reasonably refuted by forbes,, by comparing actual job growth numbers before said tax cuts and job growth AFTER

which was not MORE , but less

http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2012/07/17/the-truth-about-the-bush-tax-cuts-and-job-growth/


but you may consider planning a move,, sounds like you live someplace that truly sucks

where I live,, handymen are abundant and well paid,,,,just saying,,,



Sojourning_Soul's photo
Wed 09/10/14 09:12 AM
Edited by Sojourning_Soul on Wed 09/10/14 09:14 AM

The question would be..... If the POTUS is doing his job why would he need defending?

One would think his actions would speak for themself

msharmony's photo
Wed 09/10/14 09:16 AM







Its reverse discrimination. Frankly im suprised my post wasent blocked when i said that a lot of blacks are recially biased..... usually you cant cry racism if your white. (EXPECIALLY A WHITE MALE.) its for everyone else. When i graduated from school in '79, i could have had a job with michigan parks dept. The problem was they HAD to hire a black. They already had thier lesbian, thier mexican and thier native american..., The job went unfilled for three years because at that time there was one (1) black family in this area.
[/quote

quotas are illegal,, UNLESS There is a legal injunction as a RESULT of proven discrimination,, if your company HAD to hire a black, its because they were proven to discriminate against them and the fact of not having black applicants would have easily prevented such proof from happening,, so maybe you didn't know all the facts when you chose to believe it was 'just' because you are white,, and the job wasn't filled because of 'no blacks in the area'


but, ya know,,, if you really believe white folks have a disadvantage because they are overlooked for jobs due to race,,, that's a perception , we all have them

the job was for the State of Michigan, back when womens lib,ect. was really thick and there were a lot of quotas that didnt make sense at that time. ( in this area where there as literally no one to fill these quotas) Also i know that there are sometimes different tests for college entrance exams depending on race..., how is that fair to me? how is that fair to an employer who expects someone to be "equally qualified". ?
I know of a lesbian back in the day who, if she wanted a promotioon, would accuse her boss of sexual harassment. back then they didnt question her, they just took her word as fact and fired the superviser. Seen it too many times. reverse discrimination is alive and well today also...



the ignorance of others is an issue they need to resolve

STate jobs cannot have quotas , if it could be proven , it could be litigated and won


it is likewise not legal to give applicants to a college a DIFFERENT test based upon race,, if and when that is true, it is a prosecutable offense

I don't know what 'equally qualified' means, in this discussion

employers never have been legally required to hire underqualified applicants, though, throughout history they certainly have found ways to do so for family members, and family of friends,,,fellow schoolmates children,,etc,,,




they most certainly DID HAVE QUOTAS BACK THEN...
OH and you bring up another good point. .. I have a case against the State police for brutality, filing false reports, coorecing witnsses ect. EVERY law firm i have talked to about this tells me the same story: if i were anything but a white man i would have a multi million dollar lawsuit. No one wants to see a white man yelling foul. Never gonna go anywhere. i have come to accept this truth.



lol, sounds like you live in a racist community,, they could just tell you they aren't equipped to win your case,,

but, well, its human ,, accept whatever is easiest to accept

it is just the way it is.. there is a big difference between what the law says and what will work in court. here anyway. i can asure you that if i were a woman or a minority i would be a multi millionaire and there would be 2 state police in prison now. i would go buy thier houses at auction and then have the fire dept burn them lol. never gonna happen until perceptions change.


multi millionaire? interesting,,, based upon what details....?

if you are done wrong by police , make it public,,, there is 'unprecedented' access to public media these days,,,

if it garners enough attention, and there is legal standing for compensation,, you will have a chance

regardless of perceptions,, at least more of a chance than just telling about it in a political forum

msharmony's photo
Wed 09/10/14 09:18 AM


The question would be..... If the POTUS is doing his job why would he need defending?

One would think his actions would speak for themself



every human, at some point in life, will be criticized and ostracized about something,, and will be 'defended' by those who feel it is undue,,,

that includes presidents,,,,,


we wouldn't have courts, if innocent people didn't need 'defending',,,

regardless of doing a job or not,, people will complain and accuse,,,thats just nature...

Sojourning_Soul's photo
Wed 09/10/14 09:29 AM



The question would be..... If the POTUS is doing his job why would he need defending?

One would think his actions would speak for themself



every human, at some point in life, will be criticized and ostracized about something,, and will be 'defended' by those who feel it is undue,,,

that includes presidents,,,,,


we wouldn't have courts, if innocent people didn't need 'defending',,,

regardless of doing a job or not,, people will complain and accuse,,,thats just nature...


It's obvious you can't please everyone, but this POTUS seems to pi$$ everyone off..... even his own party .... and sadly, most of the world, including our allies

msharmony's photo
Wed 09/10/14 09:33 AM
well, perception is reality

no one I personally know is 'pissed off' (wow , isn't that an intense explanation..?)

at the president, most I know feel congress is doing a pretty bang up job of OBSTRUCTING progress, his or anyone elses,,,


but, perception is reality

the world is a pretty big place, and the largest majority of it is never heard from, so Im not sure how 'pissed off' it is either

but perception is reality



our 'allies' have been unpleased with other presidents actions, but remained our allies,, because even families don't have to agree with each other about everything, everytime


,,but perception is reality

Dodo_David's photo
Wed 09/10/14 09:41 AM

most I know feel congress is doing a pretty bang up job of OBSTRUCTING progress, his or anyone elses,,,


So, the people you hang around believe that Congress should give the POTUS anything that the POTUS wants.

Did they believe that between 2001 and 2008?

Perhaps your definition of "progress" is flawed.

mrld_ii's photo
Wed 09/10/14 10:22 AM
OP, I will not defend this POTUS; I don't like being put in a position of defending ANY POTUS.

One of the things that DOES make this country great IS our ability to bash our politicians, including any currently-seated POTUS, for ANY reason, real or imagined...with factual information OR with completely made-up fairy tale musings.

However, while acknowledging others' right TO desecrate the American flag, which is ANother symbol of the 'US' that IS the U.S., personally, I won't participate in it, nor will I ever bash a currently-seated POTUS.

It IS interesting to watch others cry how in THIS President has brought shame upon US and the U.S. and weakens US and the U.S. in the world's eye with HIS chosen actions,

all the while we turn a blind eye to the damage we do to our standing in the world community when conducting our witch hunts and 'Commie' finger-pointing at our current POTUS.





I'll be happy to defend and/or bash this current POTUS


on January 21, 2017,


and not a nanosecond before.



grumble



Good topic.



msharmony's photo
Wed 09/10/14 11:08 AM
Edited by msharmony on Wed 09/10/14 11:15 AM


most I know feel congress is doing a pretty bang up job of OBSTRUCTING progress, his or anyone elses,,,


So, the people you hang around believe that Congress should give the POTUS anything that the POTUS wants.

Did they believe that between 2001 and 2008?

Perhaps your definition of "progress" is flawed.



surprisingly, there is a very LARGE difference between obstructing EVERYTHING and allowing ANYTHING


the middle of those two extremes would be more likely to encourage 'progress'




but you tell me whether my definition is flawed,, I understand 'progress' to mean :forward or onward movement toward a destination


I understand that its hard to move forward without doing something, so in contrast, the more nothing you do,, the less progress you will make


I understand that since the innaguration of President Obama, we have had the 111th, 112th , and 113th congress

I understand that from the Beginning to the end of BUSH presidency , we had the 107th, 108th, 109th, and 110th congresses


I understand, that if we compare the two periods,,, using the records regarding workload

http://www.brookings.edu/research/reports/2013/07/vital-statistics-congress-mann-ornstein

the findings are scary,,,,


107th enacted number of bills 377, total pages 5,584
108th enacted number of bills 498, total pages 6,923
109th enacted number of bills 482, total pages 7,323
110th enacted number of bills 460, total pages 7,689

111th enacted number of bills 383, total pages 7,617
112th enacted number of bills 283, total pages 2,495
113th enacted number of bills 72 , total pages 1,208


where the first number represents bills enacted and the second the pages of legislation involved,,,

the report goes up to April of this year, but I wouldn't expect a lot more action from the 113th before they end on Sep 30


so do you see the trend I see?

in the Bush years,, Congress enacted progressively MORE AND MORE pages of legislation


and in the Obama years, SIGNIFICANTLY, less and less (from nearly 8000 pages to only 2500, and a decrease of 100 bills in a session

, is a pretty SIGNIFICANT slow down in workload ,,,,)



Dodo_David's photo
Wed 09/10/14 11:15 AM

surprisingly, there is a very LARGE difference between obstructing EVERYTHING and allowing ANYTHING


the middle of those two extremes would be more likely to encourage 'progress'




but you tell me whether my definition is flawed,, I understand 'progress' to mean :forward or onward movement toward a destination


What is the proposed destination?

The word "progress" is meaningless unless you state a destination that you want to make progress toward.

If the destination is bad, then there is nothing wrong with blocking progress toward it.

msharmony's photo
Wed 09/10/14 11:21 AM
Edited by msharmony on Wed 09/10/14 11:23 AM


proposed destinations?

improving the economy
putting people to work
educating our citizens, especially the youth
becoming a stronger nation, in terms of health,, and education, and immigration

etc,,etc,,etc,,,


deciding to do less doesn't get you FURTHER ,,,,,wherever the 'destination' is,,,,,

Dodo_David's photo
Wed 09/10/14 11:26 AM



proposed destinations?

improving the economy
putting people to work
educating our citizens, especially the youth
becoming a stronger nation, in terms of health,, and education, and immigration

etc,,etc,,etc,,,


deciding to do less doesn't get you FURTHER ,,,,,wherever the 'destination' is,,,,,



Trying to take the wrong route to the destination doesn't help either.
Republican members of Congress are trying to prevent the federal government from going the wrong route.

msharmony's photo
Wed 09/10/14 11:42 AM




proposed destinations?

improving the economy
putting people to work
educating our citizens, especially the youth
becoming a stronger nation, in terms of health,, and education, and immigration

etc,,etc,,etc,,,


deciding to do less doesn't get you FURTHER ,,,,,wherever the 'destination' is,,,,,



Trying to take the wrong route to the destination doesn't help either.
Republican members of Congress are trying to prevent the federal government from going the wrong route.



well, that's one perception


the people I know feel congress has much more responsibility for our 'problems' than the president does


being that they propose, introduce and sponsor bills with no need for the President at all, except his signature,,, which he graciously has given with only TWO vetos since his inauguration,,,

and working on LESS legislation,, per their own choice, really does little to MOVE things along,,,,


,,,,,just another perception though

maybe if half the energy spent on scapegoating the President and actively and loudly denouncing any idea he has,,, were spent on their JOBS of passing the legislation to move us forward

we may be getting further along


,,but that's just MY perception, shared by people I know,,,