Community > General Religion Chat

Topic: The White Horse of Revelation
cheechako Joined Tue 05/14/13 Posts: 735	Sun 05/03/15 07:45 AM
The following verse 3 also emphasizes that while God Almighty is the source of all creation, that creative process was THROUGH Jesus. I agree Jesus created with the power of god the father. He was also the God of the old testament who communicated with Moses. 1 cor :10 10 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat; 4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. He had enough power that no one could even look at him from the front. Exodus 33 . 20 But,” he said, “you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live. John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. He emptied himself of that power before he was born as a human, I assume that power must have flowed back to the father. They would have to be exactly the same for that to happen.

CowboyGH Joined Mon 10/05/09 Posts: 13651	Sun 05/03/15 07:54 AM
Nice post :). Most people think Jesus just to be the "son" of God. But no, he IS God. He is the one that created Earth, Heaven, man, woman, and everything else inbetween. No where through the scripures does Jesus refer to his father as our father, or his God as our God. For he himself, Jesus Christ, is our God, our Father. We are not brothers and sisters with Jesus Christ, for Jesus is God of Gods, lord of lords. He is the top dog so to speak. And it's not specifically with the power of the Father. Don't get me wrong, not demeaning Jesus' father. Just all things are through Jesus Christ as he again is our God, our Father. The following verse 3 also emphasizes that while God Almighty is the source of all creation, that creative process was THROUGH Jesus. I agree Jesus created with the power of god the father. He was also the God of the old testament who communicated with Moses. 1 cor :10 10 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat; 4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. He had enough power that no one could even look at him from the front. Exodus 33 . 20 But,” he said, “you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live. John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. He emptied himself of that power before he was born as a human, I assume that power must have flowed back to the father. They would have to be exactly the same for that to happen.

CowboyGH Joined Mon 10/05/09 Posts: 13651	Sun 05/03/15 07:59 AM
He emptied himself of that power before he was born as a human, I assume that power must have flowed back to the father. They would have to be exactly the same for that to happen. Not specifically. Even while he ws here in "human" form he still could have done anything and everything he wished to do. He truly didn't HAVE to endure that pain on the cross, but he did it for you. He took your punishment on that cross when he did nothing wrong himself. He came to Earth in the form of a servant, he wasn't here to judge, nor do anything else besides fulfill the old covenant and give us a new. "Human" is a secular word. For God has told us "know ye not that ye are gods?".... That is why Jesus is God of gods. Jesus and the father are two different beings, but they are exactly the same. And thus why Jesus says "The father and I are one". The following verse 3 also emphasizes that while God Almighty is the source of all creation, that creative process was THROUGH Jesus. I agree Jesus created with the power of god the father. He was also the God of the old testament who communicated with Moses. 1 cor :10 10 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat; 4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. He had enough power that no one could even look at him from the front. Exodus 33 . 20 But,” he said, “you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live. John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. He emptied himself of that power before he was born as a human, I assume that power must have flowed back to the father. They would have to be exactly the same for that to happen.

cheechako Joined Tue 05/14/13 Posts: 735	Sun 05/03/15 08:09 AM
If you type Holy Spirit into BibleGateway, there are a lot of results. The Holy spirit must flow out from god, but it can flow back to him also. If we are baptized with the Holy spirit and it grows in us, would that make us the same as Jesus and God the father? In a much lesser form.

dcastelmissy Joined Thu 08/01/13 Posts: 39633	Sun 05/03/15 08:10 AM
17 Jesus *said to her, “Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, ‘I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.’” John 20:17

cheechako Joined Tue 05/14/13 Posts: 735	Sun 05/03/15 08:17 AM
17 Jesus *said to her, “Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, ‘I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.’” John 20:17 Good point. The way I see it God (Elohim) is a family. Those who keep the commandments of God have the chance to be part of that family. What could be more wonderful than that?

CowboyGH Joined Mon 10/05/09 Posts: 13651	Sun 05/03/15 08:21 AM
Don't forget Jesus wasn't Mary's only child. Jesus had James, Joseph (Joses), Judas (Jude) and Simon as brothers. And the father is our God as well. For Jesus and the father are one God, for they are "one". That's the exact context the original wording of that statement means of when Jesus says "the father and I are one". They are one God, but more directly Jesus himself is personally our God. 17 Jesus *said to her, “Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, ‘I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.’” John 20:17

CowboyGH Joined Mon 10/05/09 Posts: 13651	Sun 05/03/15 08:26 AM
17 Jesus *said to her, “Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, ‘I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.’” John 20:17 Good point. The way I see it God (Elohim) is a family. Those who keep the commandments of God have the chance to be part of that family. What could be more wonderful than that? Sort of. But Elohim/God are not specific in the beings inside of each title. I've used this example mulitple times and hope it clarifies it a little. But just as our government is "one" government we have multiple people/beings within that government. Just as the word "God". And is why even back to Genesis it uses two different terms to referring to our "God". It will say either God or Lord God. And depending on the context of the verse(s) the two are used to give more in detail of who/what did the action in question. Like for instance, if you ever nottice Genesis 2 is a recap of Genesis 1 just with greater more in depth detail. Genesis 1 says God did this or that, Genesis 2 will say LORD God did this or that depending on the verse in question.

Pansytilly Joined Mon 06/09/14 Posts: 11310	Sun 05/03/15 08:30 AM
i do not agree... jesus is not God he is not his own father... and he did not tell us to treat him as equal to God and i do not see jesus as God for that would be in direct contradiction to the first commandment when he said that "the father and I are one" is in the same context as saying "you and i are one"...existing for the same purpose, but not the same entity...

dcastelmissy Joined Thu 08/01/13 Posts: 39633	Sun 05/03/15 08:35 AM
i do not agree... jesus is not God he is not his own father... and he did not tell us to treat him as equal to God and i do not see jesus as God for that would be in direct contradiction to the first commandment when he said that "the father and I are one" is in the same context as saying "you and i are one"...existing for the same purpose, but not the same entity... Exactly! We are all brethren with Christ!

CowboyGH Joined Mon 10/05/09 Posts: 13651	Sun 05/03/15 08:40 AM
i do not agree... jesus is not God he is not his own father... and he did not tell us to treat him as equal to God and i do not see jesus as God for that would be in direct contradiction to the first commandment when he said that "the father and I are one" is in the same context as saying "you and i are one"...existing for the same purpose, but not the same entity... Luke 4:12 12 And Jesus answering said unto him, It is said, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God "Thy God/Your God" Matthew 4:7 7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God. Isaiah 43:3 3 For I am the Lord thy God, the Holy One of Israel, thy Saviour: I gave Egypt for thy ransom, Ethiopia and Seba for thee. Jeremiah 1 4 Then the word of the Lord came unto me, saying, 5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations. Contradiction of his first commandment? Thou shalt have no other Gods before me? No contradiction, there is no other god before him. Jesus is IT. Jesus doesn't teach to put any other before him, so what contradiction do you speak of?

CowboyGH Joined Mon 10/05/09 Posts: 13651	Sun 05/03/15 08:43 AM
i do not agree... jesus is not God he is not his own father... and he did not tell us to treat him as equal to God and i do not see jesus as God for that would be in direct contradiction to the first commandment when he said that "the father and I are one" is in the same context as saying "you and i are one"...existing for the same purpose, but not the same entity... Exactly! We are all brethren with Christ! So why does he say he is our God and why doesn't he ever refer to us as brothers? Again, yes Jesus had actual blood brothers/sisters. But for the rest of the world, why doesn't he refer to us as brothers/sisters.

dcastelmissy Joined Thu 08/01/13 Posts: 39633	Sun 05/03/15 08:52 AM
Jesus taught that he came to do his Father's will not his own will! Therefore he came to do the will of the Almighty God !

CowboyGH Joined Mon 10/05/09 Posts: 13651	Sun 05/03/15 08:57 AM
Jesus taught that he came to do his Father's will not his own will! Therefore he came to do the will of the Almighty God ! He came to do the will of his father because he came in the form of a servant and made nothing of himself. Philippians 2:7 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And his father is only his "father" because he came of how he chose to come to the Earth. Remember, Jesus is the Word and the Word was God and was with God in the beginning. There is only a reference of the "father" after the Word comes in the form of Jesus. So he came to do the father's will, to "serve" the fathers will as he came to Earth as a "servant".

dcastelmissy Joined Thu 08/01/13 Posts: 39633	Sun 05/03/15 08:58 AM Edited by dcastelmissy on Sun 05/03/15 09:02 AM
i do not agree... jesus is not God he is not his own father... and he did not tell us to treat him as equal to God and i do not see jesus as God for that would be in direct contradiction to the first commandment when he said that "the father and I are one" is in the same context as saying "you and i are one"...existing for the same purpose, but not the same entity... Exactly! We are all brethren with Christ! So why does he say he is our God and why doesn't he ever refer to us as brothers? Again, yes Jesus had actual blood brothers/sisters. But for the rest of the world, why doesn't he refer to us as brothers/sisters. Matthew 4:10 in resisting temptation from Satan Jesus said: Then Jesus *said to him, “Go, Satan! For it is written, ‘You shall worship the Lord your God, and serve Him only.’” To have made himself the object of worship as the Almighty, he would have been guilty of the same sin as Satan who wanted worship as God!

cheechako Joined Tue 05/14/13 Posts: 735	Sun 05/03/15 08:59 AM
i do not agree... jesus is not God he is not his own father... and he did not tell us to treat him as equal to God and i do not see jesus as God for that would be in direct contradiction to the first commandment when he said that "the father and I are one" is in the same context as saying "you and i are one"...existing for the same purpose, but not the same entity... Exactly! We are all brethren with Christ! So why does he say he is our God and why doesn't he ever refer to us as brothers? Again, yes Jesus had actual blood brothers/sisters. But for the rest of the world, why doesn't he refer to us as brothers/sisters. I think he does refer to us a brothers and sisters, Matthew 12:50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother. John 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. Luke 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;

CowboyGH Joined Mon 10/05/09 Posts: 13651	Sun 05/03/15 09:06 AM
i do not agree... jesus is not God he is not his own father... and he did not tell us to treat him as equal to God and i do not see jesus as God for that would be in direct contradiction to the first commandment when he said that "the father and I are one" is in the same context as saying "you and i are one"...existing for the same purpose, but not the same entity... Exactly! We are all brethren with Christ! So why does he say he is our God and why doesn't he ever refer to us as brothers? Again, yes Jesus had actual blood brothers/sisters. But for the rest of the world, why doesn't he refer to us as brothers/sisters. I think he does refer to us a brothers and sisters, Matthew 12:50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother. John 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. Luke 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me; Matthew is saying we will be the same AS his brother, sister, and mother. It shows more of the context of the verse when he says specifically "mother". So what woman do you know besides Mary that could be considered Jesus' mother? If you find that missing link, then you'll enlighten us all on how we could be brothers and sisters with Jesus. Luke 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me; Yes and notice here as all of references as such Jesus says "MY" father, he doesn't say our father, or your father, he specifically says "my/his" father.

CowboyGH Joined Mon 10/05/09 Posts: 13651	Sun 05/03/15 09:09 AM
i do not agree... jesus is not God he is not his own father... and he did not tell us to treat him as equal to God and i do not see jesus as God for that would be in direct contradiction to the first commandment when he said that "the father and I are one" is in the same context as saying "you and i are one"...existing for the same purpose, but not the same entity... Exactly! We are all brethren with Christ! So why does he say he is our God and why doesn't he ever refer to us as brothers? Again, yes Jesus had actual blood brothers/sisters. But for the rest of the world, why doesn't he refer to us as brothers/sisters. I think he does refer to us a brothers and sisters, Matthew 12:50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother. John 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. Luke 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me; Again, Jesus did have brothers and sisters. This verse isn't a broad statement referring to us all because of the mention of his mother. Jesus had James, Joseph (Joses), Judas (Jude) and Simon as actual blood brothers. If it didn't refer to his mother in the same breath, then it could potentially mean all of us that have accepted him. But again as it mentions his mother, it has to be talking about actual blood relatives being spoken in the same breath.

dcastelmissy Joined Thu 08/01/13 Posts: 39633	Sun 05/03/15 09:10 AM
i do not agree... jesus is not God he is not his own father... and he did not tell us to treat him as equal to God and i do not see jesus as God for that would be in direct contradiction to the first commandment when he said that "the father and I are one" is in the same context as saying "you and i are one"...existing for the same purpose, but not the same entity... Exactly! We are all brethren with Christ! So why does he say he is our God and why doesn't he ever refer to us as brothers? Again, yes Jesus had actual blood brothers/sisters. But for the rest of the world, why doesn't he refer to us as brothers/sisters. I think he does refer to us a brothers and sisters, Matthew 12:50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother. John 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. Luke 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me; Matthew is saying we will be the same AS his brother, sister, and mother. It shows more of the context of the verse when he says specifically "mother". So what woman do you know besides Mary that could be considered Jesus' mother? If you find that missing link, then you'll enlighten us all on how we could be brothers and sisters with Jesus. Luke 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me; Yes and notice here as all of references as such Jesus says "MY" father, he doesn't say our father, or your father, he specifically says "my/his" father. Even after I gave you scripture to show you where he spoke of himself as our brother? Well, nothing more I can say if you won't accept scripture as proof!

CowboyGH Joined Mon 10/05/09 Posts: 13651	Sun 05/03/15 09:11 AM
i do not agree... jesus is not God he is not his own father... and he did not tell us to treat him as equal to God and i do not see jesus as God for that would be in direct contradiction to the first commandment when he said that "the father and I are one" is in the same context as saying "you and i are one"...existing for the same purpose, but not the same entity... Exactly! We are all brethren with Christ! So why does he say he is our God and why doesn't he ever refer to us as brothers? Again, yes Jesus had actual blood brothers/sisters. But for the rest of the world, why doesn't he refer to us as brothers/sisters. Matthew 4:10 in resisting temptation from Satan Jesus said: Then Jesus *said to him, “Go, Satan! For it is written, ‘You shall worship the Lord your God, and serve Him only.’” To have made himself the object of worship as the Almighty, he would have been guilty of the same sin as Satan who wanted worship as God! Jesus isn't just God, he is God of Gods. Deuteronomy 10:17 17 For the Lord your God is God of gods, and Lord of lords, a great God, a mighty, and a terrible, which regardeth not persons, nor taketh reward: