SO, another general topic on wealth/poverty shame/blame



It seems an inconsistency that the rich are able to buy themselves out of the harsh consequences that the impoverished cannot

also seems unjust for those who already are rich with privilege to get 'loopholes' and 'red tape' that allow them to escape the responsibilities and expectations those who are struggling are held to...



do you think privilege should be a consideration when holding people accountable or giving people credit?

Is't it MORE impressive for someone to come from nothing and become a millionaire

than for someone to come from a millionaire family and become a billionaire?

Isn't it LESS understandable for someone who has all matter of material things to steal other peoples money, than for someone with nothing to steal a tv?


I know Igor mentioned the value of 'currency' in another thread and it applies here to. Should privilege and wealth be a 'currency' that can be traded in for accountability and consequence?

this sums it up for me...
for those who have been allowed much.......much more will be required....

i think this applies in all areas of life...

I was raised that way too igor

more responsibility = more privilege

but more privilege is paid for with more responsibility

I was real lucky.
I was raised between a super-rich father and a poor mother.
Poor as in no food poor.
Rich as in multiple-airplanes rich.

One got to see first-hand what made them tick.
The rich parent used and abused anyone on his way to the top.
The poor parent had only love to offer.
Real easy to chose.

a tribute to your balanced nature

In a perfect world social status and personal wealth would not influence justice and no one would go hungry, but we don't live in a perfect world.

Depends on what you want.
Do you want a group oriented system?
Or individualized justice?

I mean someone raised on perfect nutrition gourmet food 6 times a day being sentenced to bread and water once a day is going to be a different level of punishment than someone starving to death eating only bread and water every 3 days sentenced to bread and water every day.

IMO all you are really asking is "should someones personal circumstances help define or mitigate consequences."


IMO the only people that should give others "credit" (in the non banking sense) are those that actually know the other person.

Unfortunately with the internet, constant newspinion, and globalization, people have this false idea that they know others they have never really "truly" interacted with, except in the most shallow of ways.


Not really.
Especially not after seeing "lottery winners who lost it all" shows.


IMO not really.

It's more understandable, to me, that someone with "nothing" would highly value what they do have and more easily transfer that to others, seeing stealing something from someone as hurting them as it would hurt themselves, so stealing is a desire to cause "harm."

It's more understandable, to me, that someone with "everything," would not value everything that they have and more easily transfer that to others, seeing stealing a t.v. as not that big of deal, not really harming anyone because it's just "stuff," but breaking the rules is "fun," so stealing is a means to fulfill "desire."


It's not. Not "really."
That's only what it looks like to people that don't belong to, or identify with, a certain group.

A while ago a "friend" brought up going to a baby shower and started talking about gifts and a crib.
Being me, my group, my identity, my first thoughts were locations of baby's r us or whatever, internet sites to look on to compare crib prices, figuring out a budget on what to spend on a crib, if I should, or what I would need in order to, assemble it, transportation in my truck or the back of her car.

Being her, her group, her identity, her first thoughts were "my cousin's neighbor had a baby, I gave her some baby clothes a few years ago, her kid has probably grown out of the crib by now, I'm going to call and ask if she wants to get rid of it, my sister also has some stuff in her garage, she might have a crib."

Would you consider my "friend" using her social status as a "currency" than can be traded in for free stuff and tax avoidance?

Using social connections and networks for "stuff" or protection or leads or favors is what civilization is based on.
It's only impersonalized by those outside of the group.

sure you see all the time the rich getting off and the poor going to jail ... that seems to be in a lot of cases ... don't think it is right ... but sometimes you can not fight $...

Thus one of the delusions I was under for a very long time.

Reality is cold and harsh.

We go thru life determining what it should be based on what we understand about other people's lives.
We either feel cheated or lucky during that comparison.

The reality is:

People are in business/work to make money
If they are effective in reaching their goals others that are not as effective feel cheated.
It is the Walmart/Kmart syndrome.
Walmart is successful at making money because they have a better business plan than Kmart. Does this make Walmart evil? Some people think so.
Are oil companies evil because we demand their product? Are they evil because they effectively make money?

Generations ago, the people that were effective in establishing some wealth created their empires off the work of others. Wealth usually gets passed down from generation to generation within a family so are the wealthy that inherit wealth evil? Are the poor that inherit nothing good?

Or is it just the reality of life?

I used to get so angry that the wealthy don't share their wealth with everyone else. Then I realized there is no life requirement that says I must be wealthy. Life is just life.

The idea that Life is Supposed to be Fair is nothing more than a delusion, a lie told to us at a young age so we don't kill and take what we want. The animal world is full of taking what is wanted. Animals kill over mating rights, food and social standings. It is natural.

What makes us civilized is the ability to live against our nature. While there are many great aspects to those social behaviors there are negative outcomes as well. Jealousy is a big one.

Human beings have capacity for reasoning.
Blame and Shame are rooted in not understanding ourselves nor having the capacity to understand others. That lack of understanding causes us to reason for jealous thinking.

One thing that helped me a lot is to understand that we are all human beings. We all must breathe, eat, remove our body waste and die.
Not one person on this planet is able to live without doing those things. The circumstances are different for everyone but the reality remains constant.

No matter how much money someone makes or has, they still have to breathe, eat, crap and die, just like you. So why would we feel they are somehow better than us? Unless jealousy is a major factor. Unless for some reason we feel inadequate to our own delusion of worth?

In the NEWS we are bombarded by the media trying to sway our thinking to their agendas. They roll out celebrities and people of power, like what they say is somehow more important that what you think. This is wrong because this other human being says its wrong. Buy this product because this other human being says you should. What this show because these other people say it is good. Buy this, eat that, do this and think that and most people have no clue they are buying into delusions. Content to being sheeple being lead to whatever fate someone else allows for them.

Then there are people like me that don't fit into those masses. Don't care how much wealth you have. Don't care how powerful you are.
We believe what we experience. We are on the rise, worldwide.

But then, people don't like facing reality. Do they?

I am convinced that all people should be treated equally, regardless of wealth or position.

Where I get some people upset (especially the rich), is that I think "equality" should be calculated differently than they want it to be.

A while back, I witnessed a classic small example of the inherent INjustice of the kind of "equality" we presently have in the American justice system.

I was downtown on the mall, to watch the national fireworks display, on the Fourth of July. As the show was being prepared, I saw that a lot of people who hadn't planned ahead, had pulled up their cars and double parked, to watch the festivities. There was a number of police making their way along the row of double parkers, handing out parking violations, and directing them to move on.

Then the police reached a very large RV, full of very well dressed people, obviously owned by the fellow that the officers handed a ticket to. But this fellow took the ticket and pocketed it, expecting to continue to watch the fireworks, and have the ticket be a high parking fee.

He remained and ignored the officers, until a tow truck finally arrived some time later, and then finally he got into his RV and lazily moved along.

I concluded from that, and similar situations, that in order to be EQUAL UNDER THE LAW, people suffer equally. And the way to do that, is NOT to have the fines and other penalties be set in precise amounts, they should be proportional, so that the rich WOULD be penalized EQUALLY by them.

If you double park, you pay some set PERCENTAGE of your overall income. The poor person who can barely afford to get by, would be very hurt, and therefore "persuaded" not to misbehave, by fines that hurt them, even though they were low by others' calculations. As well, the rich, would have to pay the same PERCENTAGE. So if I, as a peasant class person, had to pay $100 for double parking, the rich guy who makes twenty times my income, would have to pay $2000 for the same offence.

Well..having wealth is not exactly a get-out-of-jail-free card... the system is built and set up to take what it can take..if you have wealth and privilege..
And do wrong ..the system will take from you.. either in form of.. having to pay a lot of money too lawyers..
And even losing face amongst your peers.. all a cost..
Now..if you have nothing but time( no wealth )then it takes your time from you...if you do wrong.... either way this system requires what it requires.... but nobody gets off scot-free.at the end of the day.. we're always alone with are good deeds and not! so good deeds...yup..

income based fines,,,? now THAT I like.

I do too but I also live in the real world where those in power like to keep their power and will go to great lengths to preserve it. With the resources and support to make it possible.

There are already methods set in place to change the society we endure. It starts with your local government offices and requires participation.

I always wondered where they would hold city hall meetings if the entire city were to show up to take a hand in their own local government? Does Congress actually represent your will to the POTUS?
How many state representatives actually know what the people really want?

Be a middle class is enough to handle both rich and poor people

They only having adoptable mind to face the both status of an people