Americans should be better than animals, or at least in my eyes.

The needs of the many out weight the needs of the few. Animals don't usually operate like that. I think torturing one man to save thousands is worth it, but if you would rather tell thousands of family members that their children died because you wouldn't torture this one guy be my guest.

You are fooling yourself if you really think it happens for those reasons...but go ahead then

The needs of the many out weight the needs of the few. Animals don't usually operate like that. I think torturing one man to save thousands is worth it, but if you would rather tell thousands of family members that their children died because you wouldn't torture this one guy be my guest.

According to the Times, Bush signed a presidential order in 2002 allowing the National Security Agency to monitor without a warrant the international (and sometimes domestic) telephone calls and e-mail messages of hundreds or thousands of citizens and legal residents inside the United States. The program eventually came to include some purely internal controls - but no requirement that warrants be obtained from the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court as the 4th Amendment to the Constitution and the foreign intelligence surveillance laws require.

In other words, no independent review or judicial oversight.

That kind of surveillance is illegal. Period.

The day after this shocking abuse of power became public, President Bush admitted that he had authorized it, but argued that he had the authority to do so. But the law governing government eavesdropping on American citizens is well-established and crystal clear. President Bush's claim that he is not bound by that law is simply astounding. It is a Presidential power grab that poses a challenge in the deepest sense to the integrity of the American system of government - the separation of powers between the legislative and executive branches, the concept of checks and balances on executive power, the notion that the president is subject to the law like everyone else, and the general respect for the "rule of law" on which our democratic system depends.

http://www.aclu.org/privacy/spying/23279res20051229.html

You want to talk about destroying our economy and destroying our credibility in the world? His Presidency nearly did just that! Iran Hostage Crisis was a horrible, HUMILIATING defeat for us.

You want to talk about destroying our economy and destroying our credibility in the world? His Presidency nearly did just that! Iran Hostage Crisis was a horrible, HUMILIATING defeat for us.

THAT is unamerican

I don't think so. Sorry if you think wanting to save human life is unamerican. It doesnt even cost the other person his life and he had a chance to save them in the first place. Its fine if you dont agree with me, but if it was my family on the line I know I would want the guy tortured.

That is a weak smear. I just pointed out to you, incredibly simply, what torture is considered by the Geneva Convention and you mock me.

What is the beginning to torture to you? According to the Geneva Convention, any aggressive form of interrogation as deemed by the detainee is torture. The Geneva Convention is incredibly flawed and if you were a wise man you'd know that.

Actually, according to the Geneva Convention, keeping a detainee in an enclosed cell, cut off from other humans and freedom, is torture.

To me, sleep deprivation, loud music, bright lights, aggressive yelling and verbal battering, are not torture. However, according to the Geneva Convention that can be considered torture.

I even support waterboarding. Caused Khalid Sheik Mohammed to break who then gave us a treasure worth of information that prevented at least two planned terrorist attacks and surely gave us so many names.

Our Special Forces and CIA members, even some FBI agents are waterboarded. If our own are tested with waterboarding the cream of the crop bad dudes can be waterboarded.

I don't find the war was based on lies. My opinion was that 9-11 happened and we should retaliate. If they wanted to say it was for some other reason thats fine. My reason was retaliation.

and that would make you no different than those trying to do us harm

Yes because I would not be attacking innocent people. I also would not even be killing innocent people. I would be causesing pain to a guilty criminal while attempting to save lives. I think thats a big difference.

what about the other peoples rights to live who are gonna die? We gonna forget their rights? I think the right to live is more important than the right to not have pain.

I am sorry, I guess I value life too highly.