My desire to "fight" in Viet Nam was not a choice. I was 17!

I came home 2 months before I turned 20 in May of 1970.

There was no world I understood to return to, so I left one war to begin another.

I was spit on, had things thrown at me, called "baby killer", and tho I was a wounded veteran, had my benefits denied.

I was an addict, a loser (the only war without a ticker tape parade or victory) and my country deserted me. But I still loved it with all my heart and would have done it again!

I don't talk much of my time between 67-70.... I have a group for that. Most of you could not, or would not even comprehend.

When my President bows to another leader, when he is the leader of a greater world power, I spit on him! My friend "Hinney" was 18 yrs old, but old enough to think your liberty, and the right of my President not to bow before another man, was worth his life! "Scar" thought the same way! When they were digging the shrapnel out of my arm and side my only thought was getting back to my "guys" because thewy needed me! My country needed me! But when I came home, you spit on me!

No matter, I defended your right to do so. I would do it again though I may not wish to.

Who is the arrogant one here? You want you leader to bow to another ruler, not your own, you want to negate the sacrifice of my friends and all who have died since, for what? Oil? Power? Face? Political correctness?

I would love to say "screw you", but I can't.... because I fought for your right to do so.

Most of you think war is from 6-7 PM and again at 11pm.... Put your friend in a body bag with a note home to his parents! Then you can tell me I'm wrong! Lay awake at night because you can't sleep or you may harm the one sleeping next to you.... then you can tell me I'm wrong. Watch your daughter suffer from birth with a heart problem because of your exposure to some chemical while in service to your country, then tell me I am wrong!

You want to tell me my feelings are wrong? Then march your butt down and enlist for Afganistan tomorrow, then I will listen! Until then condemn me for my thoughts, curse my friends who died, and let your leader bow to whoever he chooses! As my President. HE IS A TRAITOR!

I am sorry that you were treated so badly. I do understand that. I am glad you have help with it.

I will choose to disagree with you on the meaning of the bow in a custom of bowing. You will have to accept I do not see it the way you do.

Again I am sorry if I offended you or anyone else, I never mean to offend.

Have a good night, I am off to bed for real now.

We may not be in 100% agreement but I respect what you have done for us all including those who refuse to see. And more importantly I respect your opinion and am sorry for what you must feel right now.

Don't look at me, I voted McCain. :P

Common courtesy is a hug, a kiss to each cheek, or a hand shake. Bows are reserved for royalty, the monarchy, the King, your ruler.

We will disagree on this. My President humbled himself before another leader of another nation, in representation of his country, our country, and all its people. I spit on him!

LOL, few would admit to that. I may not care much for Obama, but McCain ...? Now there's a train wreck waiting to happen.

Michelle has more balls than he does! His are probably on display in the Arab National Archieves!

As a vet, you know how it is when you salute the rank and not the person.

Also, if there is protocol you follow it, even if you do not agree with it.

McCain is a veteran, an ex POW. I honor him in that regard.

He was a pilot, captured and endured things that nightmares are made of. But I wonder about him, Kerry as well. They are heros by definition, but why do they side with obvious stupidity?

I have 2 friends who were POWs. They call McCain a traitor, a "sell out", no comment on Kerry. They say McCain was probably a "ghost", but I can only imagine. I saw things while in Nam, and I would have to wonder where being a POW, under torture, would place my loyalties. I could only hope I was brave enough, and strong enough, to do the right thing.

He (McCain) sided with Bush on most decisions, supported him, so I couldn't vote for him. No other reason. I do admire his situation, I honor his service to our country, and withhold any comments to his character. I wish to believe him a great and honorable patriot.

BHO is a minnow in a world full of sharks however. He's a puppet! A slave living in the masters house (please, I am not prejudice!!!!!! I really wanted to believe he would bring change, not accelerate the destruction we were and are headed for) just as Bush was!

One thing about Bush, he was too stupid to worry what people thought, he just read the teleprompter.... Let Cheney handle the details, and we all know he (Cheney) is capable of shooting his friends..... in the face!

So you go ahead and bow BHO, and while you're down there....suck on this!

Kings don't bow to Kings! (except in defeat.... show me just one instance! Now, thanks to BHO, you can!)

What a great heritage he has awarded us!.....TRAITOR!

THE SAME PERSON HE BOWED TO ROSE IN THE PRESENCE OF THE QUEEN OF ENGLAND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's called respect for other cultures. I would be disgusted if my President didn't show respect for other cultures.

I SAY AGAIN.... KINGS DON'T BOW TO KINGS!

Obama bows to Saudi king
Greeting called 'most unbecoming for president of the United States'

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted: April 02, 2009
4:12 pm Eastern


By Bob Unruh
© 2009 WorldNetDaily


President Obama greeted the king of Saudi Arabia with a full bow from the waist yesterday, a move one commentator described as a violation of protocol and not worthy of the office he holds.

"I am quite certain that this is not the protocol, and is most unbecoming a president of the United States," writes Clarice Feldman in an American Thinker commentary.

The situation developed as leaders of the world attending the G20 summit in London assembled for a photograph to mark the event.

After the king extended his hand while Obama approached, Obama bends from the waist until his head is nearly at the monarch's waist:

The action appeared especially awkward since among the dozens of world leaders and their spouses, handshakes abounded, but there appeared to be no other bowing in the room.

The U.S. State Department's office of protocol, in a statement attributed to acting chief of protocol Gladys Blouda, confirmed the type of greeting between heads of state depends on the customs of the countries, but a handshake is the most common form of greeting.

The online Travel Etiquette website for Saudi Arabia said handshakes are common greetings between members of the same sex.


"You should expect to undertake a considerable amount of small talk, and learning a few Arabic greetings would be well received. Saudis will stand closer to each other than many westerners are used to, and members of the same sex will often touch arms when postulating or emphasizing a point. You should not draw away from this as it would be considered rude and rejecting. Be aware that due to the conservative nature of Saudi Arabian society, it is not considered proper etiquette for men and women to greet each other in public," the site advises.

"It is proper etiquette to refer to a royal as Your Highness, and any members of the government ministries as Your Excellency," it said.


Learn about the rest of Obama's plans for the United States, in "The Audacity of Deceit"

Many of the proper procedures for meeting royalty are set by the British monarchy, since its members carry probably the highest royal profile around the world today.

The website for the British queen advises men who are from the United Kingdom to provide a neck bow (from the head only) "whilst women do a small curtsy. Other people prefer simply to shake hands in the usual way."

"On presentation to The Queen, the correct formal address is 'Your Majesty' and subsequently 'Ma'am'," the site advises.

ABC reported Obama and his wife, Michelle, were less formal meeting Queen Elizabeth II earlier this week, when they exchanged handshakes. The queen briefly touched Michelle Obama on the back, and she returned the contact.

Pundits were surprised, since in 1992 Australian Prime Minister Paul Keating was criticized when he put his arm around the queen in violation of a general "no-touch" rule regarding royalty.

But the traditional Miss Manners book of etiquette advises: "One does not bow or curtsy to a foreign monarch because the gesture symbolizes recognition of her power over her subjects."

Jamie Glazov, the author of "United in Hate," said Obama's act actually was to be expected.

"And people don't know what's going on here? Are we kidding?" he said. "This is simply the continuation of fellow traveling. It's to be totally expected. Leftists have prostrated themselves before despots throughout history – during the whole Cold War and now vis-à-vis jihadists in the terror war. 'United in Hate' crystallizes with precision how and why this dark process occurs."

He cited the Obamas' less formal interaction with the queen earlier.

"Obviously, the queen does not wield totalitarian power and does not mete out sadistic punishment – with which a believer yearns to identify. The Saudi king, meanwhile, is a tyrannical entity to which Obama can subjugate his individuality – and through which he can vicariously experience a feeling of power and purpose. This is the process of negative identification that every leftist must practice and that 'United in Hate' documents is at the heart of every leftist's main driving force," he said.

***************************************************

As I said, I spit on this traitor who bows to another man when my brothers and sisters, the sons and daughters of this great nation, have died to allow our people, even this peasant who mocks us before the world, to walk tall and proud in freedom, and never have to bow to any man!

I seem to recall the 9/11 hijackers were mostly Saudis......

That was about the only lucid thing you have said in this thread.....



Is your country viewed by others as a predominately arrogant one?


YES.


Arrogant, self focussed, prideful, boastful, bullying, haranguing...and greedy.


Sad, but true.

So let me get this straight..... you want the President to be unarrogant and respectful and meet other leaders on even ground....

The King extends his hand for a handshake, and BHO bows to him like a servant..... I spit on the traitor, his disregard of human sacrifice by the sons and daughters of America is nothing less than treason to his role as "Commander and Chief" and he should be held accountable!

I hate to say this to my American cousins but this entry from the Dictionary pretty much sums up what my experiances with Americans were. I grew up in a bordertown and worked in the Hospitality Industry for many years and it's surprising how many people from the States still assume that they have a right to be this way because of blood spilled.

I'm really not trying to offend and paint every American with the same brush ... lets get that cleared up right now because, living in a bordertown gave me access to the opposite of the above mentioned statement.

I would just like to point out though, that the Americans Forces didn't get overly involed with the war effort in Euorpe until later in either World War. The Canadians, had been there allied with Britian since the beginnings of each. So, I won't espouse to giving you a death toll of the Canadian, British and European Forces that fought and died, research it on your own if you feel the need to know.

If you feel that arrogance is the God given right of every American Citizen, then chant the names and numbers of your sacrificed sons but please remember that many other countries have folllowed the call to arms. The Canadians have always and will always continue to give their sons and daughters in the fight for freedom and we do so with quite dignity not because we are meek but because its the right thing to do. Canadian Citizens will always step up and be there were we are needed because as a people that is who WE are. I will reserve my feelings about our politics for a later discussion.

So ... as a Canadian, President Obama, good on ya for recognizing the Worlds sentiments on Americans and trying to do something about it instead of denying that it exsists as previous Administrations have.

Thats my opinion and your entitled to it ... Phule.

P.S. Yes, I know. Opinions are like as*holes, everybody has one. Freedom of expression or speech is something we all fought for. Lets Keep it that way.

I respect everyone who offers it in return, and ANY man or woman who wears a uniform in defense of their country, whatever country, even more so.

Arrogance is stupidity, and stupidity is not gender or race specific.

I perfer honor over pride, yet I am proud to be an American.

When my President bows to another nations ruler, it's not a courtesy or respect, it's dishonor. Dishonor to all the men and women who have ever worn the uniform in defense of this great nation.

I am a proud American, but not so arrogant as to think myself, or my people, better than any other beings we share this planet with. I am courteous, caring and giving to a fault. I am also not so foolish as to think there are others "different" from myself, who don't deserve the same respect I wish in return.

I mean no disrespect here, to anyone, but the man who negated the sacrifice of the people he was chosen to represent. When he bowed before a man, a person of equal stature, he did so for all the people he has sworn an oath to represent. When he became President, he was no longer BHO, an individual, he became the leader of our country!

His bow was for every American! We were betrayed in an act of servitude, not respect, to another world leader.

Where is this traitors honor or pride? It surely isn't in the nation he swore to represent or it's people!

Not one single thing to do with arrogance, respect or courtesy. Everything to do with honor!

IMPEACH!

After reading many of these posts I began to question “What exactly is everyone taking pride in?”
Are we proud because an accident of birth placed us in this country? Are we proud because we give an unconditional show of support for soldiers. Is that thinking critically? Critical thinking would illuminate more truth, for not all our soldiers are duly supported, not those who have to lie about who they are to devote their lives to defending this country. So What exactly is the definition of pride? I looked it up. NOTE the first entry and pay specific attention to the final one, a quote in which truth cannot be denied – Pride comes/goes before a fall.

Instead of saying we are proud, perhaps we need to critically consider, WITHOUT BIAS, what it is we are proud of? and then ask if we are arrogant.

Websters New World College Dictionary (2009)
pride (prīd)
noun
1.
a. an unduly high opinion of oneself; exaggerated self-esteem;
conceit
b. haughty behavior resulting from this; arrogance
2. proper respect for oneself; sense of one's own dignity or
worth; self-respect
3. delight or satisfaction in one's own or another's
achievements, in associations, etc.
4. a person or thing in which pride is taken
5. the best of a class, group, society, etc.; pick; flower
6. the best part; prime in the pride of manhood
7. mettle (in a horse)
8.
a. a group or family (of lions)
b. INFORMAL any impressive group
9. ARCHAIC
a. magnificence; splendor
b. ornament


Cambridge Advances Learners Dictionary
• pride (SATISFACTION)
• pride (RESPECT FOR YOURSELF)
• pride (FEELING OF IMPORTANCE)
• pride (LIONS)
• gay pride
• pride yourself on sth
• take pride in sth/sb
• be the pride of somewhere/sth
• be your pride and joy
• have/take pride of place
• Pride comes/goes before a fall.

< ----- Phule says: Pride is one of the Seven Deadly Sins, one must at times swallow ones pride in order to achieve a means to an end.

I see the thread has digressed into an ethical discussion of a paid defense force. What we fail to recognize is something the Greeks new all too well. The perks of being a part of a “paid” full-time defense force MUST include some measure of power and prestige.

But the reason power and prestige must exist is because this kind of defense force MUST give up a basic human right, the right to maintain and act in accordance with a personal conviction to a moral or ethical code.

The Greeks maintained a “sub-culture” which consisted of life-long soldiers. Their heirs were soldiers and both men and women understood their role and TOOK PRIDE, in maintaining a defense force as a way of life. For sacrificing their right to personal moral code, that entire community was given certain privilege and held a prestigious place in society.

Not so with our own defense force – as Sojourning_Soul so aptly pointed out. Not so with our own society as the phrase “don’t ask, don’t tell” indicates. Not so with our government who has little interest in a person when they are no longer a soldier.

Many people look at the military as a job option, as way to an education they might not otherwise be able to afford, but only a few reap the benefits that this JOB offers. In times of conflict, those who hold an opinion which opposes the conflict are ridiculed, in spite of the fact that this country has decreed a law supporting a basic human right to maintain their own moral code and to act in a manner consistent with that code.

We are not only arrogant, we are discriminatory, bigoted, and so well enculturated that a simple word like pride has lost it’s definition because it has become a part of a banner which required unconditional respect, even at the expense of basic human rights.