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| Topic: Are we Arrogant? | |
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I see the thread has digressed into an ethical discussion of a paid defense force. What we fail to recognize is something the Greeks new all too well. The perks of being a part of a “paid” full-time defense force MUST include some measure of power and prestige. But the reason power and prestige must exist is because this kind of defense force MUST give up a basic human right, the right to maintain and act in accordance with a personal conviction to a moral or ethical code. The Greeks maintained a “sub-culture” which consisted of life-long soldiers. Their heirs were soldiers and both men and women understood their role and TOOK PRIDE, in maintaining a defense force as a way of life. For sacrificing their right to personal moral code, that entire community was given certain privilege and held a prestigious place in society. Not so with our own defense force – as Sojourning_Soul so aptly pointed out. Not so with our own society as the phrase “don’t ask, don’t tell” indicates. Not so with our government who has little interest in a person when they are no longer a soldier. Many people look at the military as a job option, as way to an education they might not otherwise be able to afford, but only a few reap the benefits that this JOB offers. In times of conflict, those who hold an opinion which opposes the conflict are ridiculed, in spite of the fact that this country has decreed a law supporting a basic human right to maintain their own moral code and to act in a manner consistent with that code. We are not only arrogant, we are discriminatory, bigoted, and so well enculturated that a simple word like pride has lost it’s definition because it has become a part of a banner which required unconditional respect, even at the expense of basic human rights. Very well said ... Thank you for getting that out for me. |
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Good post, Red....
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I may not be learning math (arghhh) but I am learning to think more critically.
It's important for everyone to pay attention to their feelings. If one suddenly feels an angry or fearful need to justify an opinion. It would be best to stop and think before speaking. Because your justification must be well thought out and logical supportive reasoning must be given. This is a pitfall we ALL fall into but when we do we only end up producing off-the-cuff rationalizations. We not only look foolish but if we feel our self-respect is being threatened we tend to close our minds and no new knowledge can penetrate fundamentalist views. Think about what you are feeling, consider all the arguments without bias, and then formulate your arguments to justify your opinion or to claim a new one. |
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BHO, as our President, the leader of a free(?) nation, (perhaps irrellevant, but....) founded on christian principles, and REPRESENTITIVE of all the people within it, saw fit to bow to a foreign King, a dictator, on our behalf!
He may have felt the "individual" need to (based on his early years of life with Muslem upbringing), but he is no longer an individual, and can not afford the freedom to think like one when representing our nation as its leader. Why, when no other head of state present felt the need to, does our leader dishonor us, embarrass us, by humbling us before a foreign dictator, for all the world to see? What was he thinking, "OMG! It's my KING!"? The King was offering his hand...... Obama bowed..... TRAITOR! |
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BHO, as our President, the leader of a free(?) nation, (perhaps irrellevant, but....) founded on christian principles, and REPRESENTITIVE of all the people within it, saw fit to bow to a foreign King, a dictator, on our behalf! He may have felt the "individual" need to (based on his early years of life with Muslem upbringing), but he is no longer an individual, and can not afford the freedom to think like one when representing our nation as its leader. Why, when no other head of state present felt the need to, does our leader dishonor us, embarrass us, by humbling us before a foreign dictator, for all the world to see? What was he thinking, "OMG! It's my KING!"? The King was offering his hand...... Obama bowed..... TRAITOR! I don't think repetition will make you view more clear. He didn't embarass me, nor did he dishonor me. Not everyone is going to see this as you do. |
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BHO, as our President, the leader of a free(?) nation, (perhaps irrellevant, but....) founded on christian principles, and REPRESENTITIVE of all the people within it, saw fit to bow to a foreign King, a dictator, on our behalf! He may have felt the "individual" need to (based on his early years of life with Muslem upbringing), but he is no longer an individual, and can not afford the freedom to think like one when representing our nation as its leader. Why, when no other head of state present felt the need to, does our leader dishonor us, embarrass us, by humbling us before a foreign dictator, for all the world to see? What was he thinking, "OMG! It's my KING!"? The King was offering his hand...... Obama bowed..... TRAITOR! Again I will say you are seeing this through clouded vision. You have the right to your view of course as do we all but it is not what you are stating. We should be respectful to others, part of being respected is giving it. |
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Don't look at me, I voted McCain. :P Aw, sorry for ya. LOL |
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It's called respect for other cultures. I would be disgusted if my President didn't show respect for other cultures. I SAY AGAIN.... KINGS DON'T BOW TO KINGS! We have no kings anymore. Even the only monarchy we have has a Queen. It is not a matter of bowing in defeat or submission so that point is mute. We are a respected nation there is no doubt about that although Bush did try to strip of us of any respect, we do still have it. |
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Edited by
Dragoness
on
Mon 06/15/09 10:08 AM
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I may not be learning math (arghhh) but I am learning to think more critically. It's important for everyone to pay attention to their feelings. If one suddenly feels an angry or fearful need to justify an opinion. It would be best to stop and think before speaking. Because your justification must be well thought out and logical supportive reasoning must be given. This is a pitfall we ALL fall into but when we do we only end up producing off-the-cuff rationalizations. We not only look foolish but if we feel our self-respect is being threatened we tend to close our minds and no new knowledge can penetrate fundamentalist views. Think about what you are feeling, consider all the arguments without bias, and then formulate your arguments to justify your opinion or to claim a new one. Unbiased intelligent rationalization seems to be one of the hardest things to do, I agree. It is important though. |
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You know if you think about it that bow incident is rather cute. The other leader offered his hand in respect for our customs and Obama bowed in respect of theirs.
I think that has cute written all over it. Two leaders trying to be respectful of boths customs come together and miss....lol |
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Edited by
Jess642
on
Mon 06/15/09 03:02 PM
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From the outside looking in, Obama did more for how your country is viewed by other nations, in one simple movement, than the last 493 Presidents have done.
Humility, and respect are two of the most necessary behaviours for anyone wishing to communicate with others. Obama conveyed that he is humble, and respectful, AS A MAN...which onflows AS A LEADER. Did the simple act of bowing show him as a weak leader? Hell no!!! There is a strength in humility, and respectful behaviours, that outlast any bullying, arrogant behaviours. Your leader showed honour, and dignity towards another person, of recognised status in the country he was a guest in......something that your country appears to be lacking elsewhere. |
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Jesse, I agree.
One thing I have learned in my life is that respect is earned but if you never give respect you will never get it. |
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Reading this thread something struck me as interesting....
those who have served in past violent situations, reacted violently to Obama's bowing. It is a terrible thing to feel that the one thing you felt had purpose, that defines you, is almost made redundant by what is viewed as a servile action. (Which it wasn't...it was a respectful acknowledgement of someone of status in the country Obama was a guest in). How does one feel important, if they view their leader as weak? It is so difficult to sustain the prideful stance when threatened by humility. It creates massive discomfort, as evidenced within this thread. it can create an innate sense of futility in what one has clung to, when a gentle evidence shows it can be different. Arrogant, prideful, aggressive...versus...humble, respectful, dignified. I can tell you now, you come into my house swaggering and posturing, and boastful..... I will kick your arse straight back out, and see you for what you are....small and weak. |
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Edited by
Sojourning_Soul
on
Mon 06/15/09 05:17 PM
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15 of the 19 "suspected" hijackers were Saudi citizens.
My President bowed to their King! That's a message that should go a long way to support Al Queda enlistment! |
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I fail to see the connection between arrogance and the number of war dead. Because we have fought in numerous wars and unfortunately lost a great many soldiers in those wars, we somehow cannot be arrogant? Do we somehow have a perpetual ticket now to do anything we damn well please?
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15 of the 19 "suspected" hijackers were Saudi citizens. My President bowed to their King! That's a message that should go a long way to support Al Queda enlistment! Sojourning-Soul Let me ask you a question and please give your answer some thought – there is no right or wrong response, I’m just interested. Consider, very seriously, what your code of ethics is in regards to human rights. Can you think of anything to which every human being on this planet is entitled, no matter who they are or what they have done or even what you think they represent? In the business world of today, no business will survive long unless it is able to accept, respect and acclimate to the diversity of cultures with which it interacts. We all have to make concessions and the best way to do that is to learn, understand and respect the cultures of others. Those who find this most difficult are the individualist cultures, like America. Obama is a product of the new generation. He understands the diversity in which globalization is taking place and he is attempting to take this country, with as much dignity as possible, into the right direction (the future). He is leading us – modeling by example what will be necessary for Americans to learn in order to get along. The time for world dominance is over, we have fallen and the only graceful way to work back into a position of respect in the world, is to respect all others as equals - we are all humans, a sound ethics would be that all humans are equal and entitled certain rights. American domination has led many to believe dominance makes us more equal than others, we are not. This is my opinion, based on the current events which have been transpiring around us. We ARE in full motion, and if we attempt to hold back the tide that brings change, we will not save face and we will be an unhappy nation. Jess – I liked your posts and I agree. |
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What I never understood about America is that people in it all came from somewhere else. I don't understand what is taking so long for people to accept that they do not live alone in this world or this country.
Diversity to me is facinating and hopefully one day we will be so mixed that there will be no differences to fight about. I know I always seem to get back to Religion, but I think religion has done a great diservice in the world. We cling to notions that don't fit with change or diversity. Sooner or later we were bound to mix it up, and yet we fight it even when it's all around us. Personally I think customs and cultures could use a good dose of change as well. Another thing we cling to even when it's distructive and out dated. I consider myself lucky that I was never indoctrinated sucessfully into religion or into prejudice. I am changing all the time in my own life, trying to grow emotionally and otherwise, so change doesn't frighten me, it in fact energizes me. We have a mexican couple living on our street, which is about as upsetting as having an openly gay woman also living in this area for some folks. I am the only person that speaks to them or acknowledges them at all. That is absolutely bizarre to me and shows me how slowly things change in spite of all the opportunities we get on a daily basis to make changes in our attitudes and thinking. Religion has kept us in the dark ages, and we see that in not only americans but in all races clinging to old ways and old ideas. Actually for as bright as Obama is I am suprised he is religious at all. But I do like that Obama is not afraid to speak his mind, knowing the kind of attitudes he faces in people that don't like him one bit. |
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From the outside looking in, Obama did more for how your country is viewed by other nations, in one simple movement, than the last 493 Presidents have done. Humility, and respect are two of the most necessary behaviours for anyone wishing to communicate with others. Obama conveyed that he is humble, and respectful, AS A MAN...which onflows AS A LEADER. Did the simple act of bowing show him as a weak leader? Hell no!!! There is a strength in humility, and respectful behaviours, that outlast any bullying, arrogant behaviours. Your leader showed honour, and dignity towards another person, of recognised status in the country he was a guest in......something that your country appears to be lacking elsewhere. Nicely said, Jess. Humility and respect are excellent qualities to have. I'm happy to see that our President has those qualities. |
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15 of the 19 "suspected" hijackers were Saudi citizens. My President bowed to their King! That's a message that should go a long way to support Al Queda enlistment! Do those 15 suspected hijackers mean that the rest of the citizens of that country are bad? I think not. |
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Just an update here.
Obama bowing to the Saudi leader in their culture is actually an insult to him. I looked it up. So he actually insulted the Saudi leader and the Saudi forgave him obviously for the faux pas. |
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