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| Topic: We Have Only Just Begun to Fight | |
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the supreme court should strike this bill down as being against the constitution ==================================================== i do not see the words mandate medical coverage to the """people""" in the section of the constitution labeled powers of congress ----------------------------------------------------- but hey what do i know Couldn't that be said about Social Security and Medicare too? What about car insurance? yes it could and that is the way the country is going it is taking away the responsibility (and the right) of self preservation itis your responsibility to see to it you take care of yourself not the mommy daddy govt govt is to be rulled by the """people""" not the other way around We are already paying for the uninsured. That hurts us in the pocketbook. The bill is making it easier for them to purchase insurance. They now have a numerous choices to choose from and subsidies to help them afford it and now they accept pre-existing conditions. |
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Factcheck:
Here's a look at some of the myths and realities, from both sides of the issue: • Obama has put the nation on a slippery slope toward socialism. Hello? Government's role in health care has been steadily growing since Medicare and Medicaid were established 45 years ago. Even if Republicans were to take control of Washington and repeal this bill, government would still be on track to pick up more than half the nation's health care tab by 2012, according to a report last month from Medicare. "The Republican myth is that the government is for the first time going to take over the health care sector," said economist Joe Antos of the business-oriented American Enterprise Institute. "The takeover was probably largely accomplished in 1965 with the creation of Medicare and Medicaid. Since the early days, Medicare has called the shots on a lot of policy issues that private insurance fell in line with." Still, the new law will undoubtedly expand the government's influence. Sen. Judd Gregg, R-N.H., warned Tuesday it will lead to the "quasi-nationalization of the health industry." Underline "quasi." Democrats dropped their idea of a government insurance plan to compete with private carriers. So any "socialization" will be channeled through Wellpoint, UnitedHealthcare and other private insurance giants. |
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Edited by
adj4u
on
Tue 03/23/10 07:00 PM
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you totally side stepped the point
the only reason that those without insurance are costing anyone is the federal law mandating care to anyone regardless of their ability to pay again a law that oversteps their powers |
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Factcheck: Here's a look at some of the myths and realities, from both sides of the issue: • Obama has put the nation on a slippery slope toward socialism. Hello? Government's role in health care has been steadily growing since Medicare and Medicaid were established 45 years ago. Even if Republicans were to take control of Washington and repeal this bill, government would still be on track to pick up more than half the nation's health care tab by 2012, according to a report last month from Medicare. "The Republican myth is that the government is for the first time going to take over the health care sector," said economist Joe Antos of the business-oriented American Enterprise Institute. "The takeover was probably largely accomplished in 1965 with the creation of Medicare and Medicaid. Since the early days, Medicare has called the shots on a lot of policy issues that private insurance fell in line with." Still, the new law will undoubtedly expand the government's influence. Sen. Judd Gregg, R-N.H., warned Tuesday it will lead to the "quasi-nationalization of the health industry." Underline "quasi." Democrats dropped their idea of a government insurance plan to compete with private carriers. So any "socialization" will be channeled through Wellpoint, UnitedHealthcare and other private insurance giants. fact check everything you mentioned breaks this amendment to the constitution of the United States Amendment 10 - Powers of the States and People. Ratified 12/15/1791. Note The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people. |
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Factcheck: Here's a look at some of the myths and realities, from both sides of the issue: • Obama has put the nation on a slippery slope toward socialism. Hello? Government's role in health care has been steadily growing since Medicare and Medicaid were established 45 years ago. Even if Republicans were to take control of Washington and repeal this bill, government would still be on track to pick up more than half the nation's health care tab by 2012, according to a report last month from Medicare. "The Republican myth is that the government is for the first time going to take over the health care sector," said economist Joe Antos of the business-oriented American Enterprise Institute. "The takeover was probably largely accomplished in 1965 with the creation of Medicare and Medicaid. Since the early days, Medicare has called the shots on a lot of policy issues that private insurance fell in line with." Still, the new law will undoubtedly expand the government's influence. Sen. Judd Gregg, R-N.H., warned Tuesday it will lead to the "quasi-nationalization of the health industry." Underline "quasi." Democrats dropped their idea of a government insurance plan to compete with private carriers. So any "socialization" will be channeled through Wellpoint, UnitedHealthcare and other private insurance giants. Precisely...this all started a really long time ago, but adding fuel to the fire isn't going to help. Hell, we might as well go back to England because everything we distanced ourselves from in the 1700's is coming back full-circle. I don't have a problem with trying to help people, I have a problem with giving the government that kind of power. It is bad enough that the government can play the power-card with foreign person's with the Patriot Act. |
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The American people will not allow a corrupt machine to dictate their future.   No, but I can say 'FDR', 'LBJ', 'JIM-meh!, 'Clinton', and 'The ONE' ...   BUT WHERE IS OBAMA AND HIS CREW??? WHERE IS CLINTON TOO? Clinton was the beginning of this whole deterioration. Jimmy Carter was just a weak kneed sissy! |
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This started well before Clinton, read my reply on the previous page...you can fact-check it too, it is solid.
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Clinton was the beginning of this whole deterioration. 
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Edited by
RKISIT
on
Tue 03/23/10 07:27 PM
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Clinton was the beginning of this whole deterioration. |
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Clinton was the beginning of this whole deterioration.  
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Yeah, this did start long ago. That doesn't mean it's the correct way to do things.
Might I suggest taking the government out of health coverage completely, with one exception... offer a bonus tax incentive to donating to a nonprofit that helps with low income or crisis medical care. It get's rid of the new cost of this bill (the thousands of government employees required to run and enforce it) and avoids any possible constitutional arguments. Also, it offers an incentive to take care of people without relying solely on the government! Furthermore, in all things it is easily seen that the government is very... inefficient. If I should need to provide examples I can and will do so (I was in the Navy, and I did see just how screwballed government spending can be). A simple shift to a nonprofit running via donations would be so much of a better dollar for dollar return that it's insane! Personally, I find all of the *bush, clinton, obama, etc* namecalling and blamerolling silly. Let's just fix what's really broken with healthcare (that is, to be blunt, medicare and medicaid and malpractice insurance and lack of competition) and get rid of the rest of the political junk! After that, let's replace the out of touch people (everyone in Washington D.C., basically) with average, everyday americans who want to take care of getting our government back in shape. After all, it is now so far in debt that the % by tax 'income' is equivalent to that of an Obese person. |
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Factcheck: Here's a look at some of the myths and realities, from both sides of the issue: • Obama has put the nation on a slippery slope toward socialism. Hello? Government's role in health care has been steadily growing since Medicare and Medicaid were established 45 years ago. Even if Republicans were to take control of Washington and repeal this bill, government would still be on track to pick up more than half the nation's health care tab by 2012, according to a report last month from Medicare. "The Republican myth is that the government is for the first time going to take over the health care sector," said economist Joe Antos of the business-oriented American Enterprise Institute. "The takeover was probably largely accomplished in 1965 with the creation of Medicare and Medicaid. Since the early days, Medicare has called the shots on a lot of policy issues that private insurance fell in line with." Still, the new law will undoubtedly expand the government's influence. Sen. Judd Gregg, R-N.H., warned Tuesday it will lead to the "quasi-nationalization of the health industry." Underline "quasi." Democrats dropped their idea of a government insurance plan to compete with private carriers. So any "socialization" will be channeled through Wellpoint, UnitedHealthcare and other private insurance giants. fact check everything you mentioned breaks this amendment to the constitution of the United States Amendment 10 - Powers of the States and People. Ratified 12/15/1791. Note The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people. Do you suggest getting rid of Medicare and Medicaid too? |
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http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2010/03/22/newt-gingrich-health-care-obama-pelosi-reid-stupak-jobs-vote-election/ This. I support the fight against the health care reform, I do. We are twisting ourselves into a Socialist government that defies the very reason our country was founded...but find a more credible source than Fox. Their journalism department is ran by monkeys with too much time on their hands. Instead, let's write personal thoughts? Maybe strike a more personal nerve with fellow readers? We can't very well do this with a news organization that has failed numerous times to point out facts in a non-bias method and is financed by the right-wing. What we have with this health care reform bill is the verge of a Socialist government, remember Democracy? Well, now we say bye to it. This is just one step of, and I can only assume, many more to come. First we had the Patriot Act, yes, yes this is where we lost our freedom...and now we have the health care bill, say 'goodbye freedom!' I really did use to love my country, I did, even moreso than most might know, but I did. We used to be a beacon of freedom for everyone, a place people aspired to come and lay down a foundation for their future...that's right! We used to be that and now we are crippled. It can really be traced back all the way to the early 70's, I like to call it 'the beginning of the end.' Around this time the government started enacting laws to control the population, drug laws. This continued well into the 80's with the Tax Reform Act in 1986, effectively killing real estate values, this continued well into the 90's. In the early to mid 90's we began to see curfew laws enacted in certain areas of our country, which meant if you were under a certain age you had to be inside at a certain time of night...well, if you were under 18, you were less of an American citizen, no? As well in the 90's we saw a great rise in murder, specifically in Oakland with the coming of the crack-cocaine epidemic. With this string of murders we began to see numerous gun control laws enacted, with of course, our personal interest in mind, right? Well, really this could have been completly avoided if we didn't have a fluke of an agency called the DEA mucking things up with the drugs. The crac-cocaine epidemic spawned out of the Miami cocaine epidemic ran by Griselda Blanco, which was, by all accounts, an epidemic...right? Where does this all come together? Population control under the guise of personal interest, the murder rate in Oakland in the early and mid 90's could have been avoided with a better drug law put into effect and less governing from only one agency (DEA). The drug laws really set in motion a cataclysm of events that have lead to where we are now, you give people control and they want more, an unfortunate aspect of human nature. Now at the turn of the century (2000), we were already being pretty well controlled, weren't we? I mean we had gun laws, we had drug laws, we even had social laws. Well, now we are on a roll. So comes the turn of the century and then President Bush, with that came the September 11th attacks and the subsequent wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, respectively. We started the push into Afghanistan, which was to be assumed since the plotter of the September 11th attacks was taking refuge in the country. After about a year or two we then moved into Iraq, for reasons we can only theorize (I won't get into this). So what does this all mean? Well, in simple terms: Big government started taking over little government at the turn of the 70's and continued like a steed on steroids well into where we are now. And, to top it off, we allowed it. Blindly following assumed statistics of the 70's and the assumption that we needed the Federal Government to watch over us in the 80's, 90's, and 00's. We built this road with loads of anti-this/that movements in the 90's, anti-gun, anti-drug...anti-freedom. We killed the only thing this country was worth, we destroyed the very foundation on which this great country was founded...we collapsed an ideal that even when it was thought of...was known to eventually be taken advantage of. We did this to ourselves, and only we can turn it around. So...write your senator, congressman/woman, and your respective state. Voice your opinion, whether it be in favor or against, speak. Freedom means nothing if we don't use it, and speech is just a word with a simple definition without a very sound intent behind it. 1970's-Recession. 1973-The DEA was founded. 1980-Reagan is elected, and leads the attack against Communism. 1980's-Reagan accelerates the war on drugs. 1986-Tax Reform Act, Immigration Reform Act. 1990-$220 billion dollar deficit. 1991-United States launches first attack on Iraq. 1993-Oakland's murder rate rises to 40.8 per 100,000. 1994-Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act put into effect by Clinton. 1996-Antiterrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act is enacted. 2001-September 11th and subsequent war in Afghanistan. 2001-The Patriot Act is enacted. 2003-War begins in Iraq, and ends. 2004-Violence surges in Iraq and still continues today. 2005-Hurricane Katrina and subsequent failure to deal with the situation. thought i would bring it p for those not wanting tolook for it fact is tho it started around the same time as WWI and the establishment of the federal reserve board and yes granddaddy bush was on the first fed reserve board just a point to ponder |
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Edited by
adj4u
on
Tue 03/23/10 07:35 PM
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Factcheck: Here's a look at some of the myths and realities, from both sides of the issue: • Obama has put the nation on a slippery slope toward socialism. Hello? Government's role in health care has been steadily growing since Medicare and Medicaid were established 45 years ago. Even if Republicans were to take control of Washington and repeal this bill, government would still be on track to pick up more than half the nation's health care tab by 2012, according to a report last month from Medicare. "The Republican myth is that the government is for the first time going to take over the health care sector," said economist Joe Antos of the business-oriented American Enterprise Institute. "The takeover was probably largely accomplished in 1965 with the creation of Medicare and Medicaid. Since the early days, Medicare has called the shots on a lot of policy issues that private insurance fell in line with." Still, the new law will undoubtedly expand the government's influence. Sen. Judd Gregg, R-N.H., warned Tuesday it will lead to the "quasi-nationalization of the health industry." Underline "quasi." Democrats dropped their idea of a government insurance plan to compete with private carriers. So any "socialization" will be channeled through Wellpoint, UnitedHealthcare and other private insurance giants. fact check everything you mentioned breaks this amendment to the constitution of the United States Amendment 10 - Powers of the States and People. Ratified 12/15/1791. Note The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people. Do you suggest getting rid of Medicare and Medicaid too? only if you do not want to break the law of the land it definatly needs reworked in a more equitable manner |
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Edited by
Robm248
on
Tue 03/23/10 07:37 PM
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Factcheck: Here's a look at some of the myths and realities, from both sides of the issue: • Obama has put the nation on a slippery slope toward socialism. Hello? Government's role in health care has been steadily growing since Medicare and Medicaid were established 45 years ago. Even if Republicans were to take control of Washington and repeal this bill, government would still be on track to pick up more than half the nation's health care tab by 2012, according to a report last month from Medicare. "The Republican myth is that the government is for the first time going to take over the health care sector," said economist Joe Antos of the business-oriented American Enterprise Institute. "The takeover was probably largely accomplished in 1965 with the creation of Medicare and Medicaid. Since the early days, Medicare has called the shots on a lot of policy issues that private insurance fell in line with." Still, the new law will undoubtedly expand the government's influence. Sen. Judd Gregg, R-N.H., warned Tuesday it will lead to the "quasi-nationalization of the health industry." Underline "quasi." Democrats dropped their idea of a government insurance plan to compete with private carriers. So any "socialization" will be channeled through Wellpoint, UnitedHealthcare and other private insurance giants. fact check everything you mentioned breaks this amendment to the constitution of the United States Amendment 10 - Powers of the States and People. Ratified 12/15/1791. Note The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people. Do you suggest getting rid of Medicare and Medicaid too? I do. They are so fraud ridden and so far in debt... we have to do something differently. I'm not saying just cut everyone off cold, but if doctors won't even take the coverage something is wrong! It might be that Medicaid and Medicare just don't pay... or pay enough to cover the cost of the care. How about we try allowing everyone paying taxes to keep that money, and have them in charge of making sure relatives medical is paid... in combination with nonprofits like the salvation army and the red cross? I bet you we'd see a ton less fake charges! Oh, and btw: Fact check for you all... NOBODY is getting health care out of this. That is guaranteed from the moment you set foot in a hospital. You will be taken care of, by law. So, in opinion: This is just a chance to add a bunch of government jobs, and taxes, and paperwork to the health care process. |
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Edited by
Winx
on
Tue 03/23/10 07:42 PM
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Oh, and btw: Fact check for you all... NOBODY is getting health care out of this. That is guaranteed from the moment you set foot in a hospital. You will be taken care of, by law. Yes, you can go to the ER without insurance. You will get the big bill. If you can't pay it, we all pay it. So...you're at the ER because of seizures. They stop the seizures and find a brain tumor. That's the end of the ER visit. You can't get aftercare for the tumor without insurance. |
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Factcheck: Here's a look at some of the myths and realities, from both sides of the issue: • Obama has put the nation on a slippery slope toward socialism. Hello? Government's role in health care has been steadily growing since Medicare and Medicaid were established 45 years ago. Even if Republicans were to take control of Washington and repeal this bill, government would still be on track to pick up more than half the nation's health care tab by 2012, according to a report last month from Medicare. "The Republican myth is that the government is for the first time going to take over the health care sector," said economist Joe Antos of the business-oriented American Enterprise Institute. "The takeover was probably largely accomplished in 1965 with the creation of Medicare and Medicaid. Since the early days, Medicare has called the shots on a lot of policy issues that private insurance fell in line with." Still, the new law will undoubtedly expand the government's influence. Sen. Judd Gregg, R-N.H., warned Tuesday it will lead to the "quasi-nationalization of the health industry." Underline "quasi." Democrats dropped their idea of a government insurance plan to compete with private carriers. So any "socialization" will be channeled through Wellpoint, UnitedHealthcare and other private insurance giants. fact check everything you mentioned breaks this amendment to the constitution of the United States Amendment 10 - Powers of the States and People. Ratified 12/15/1791. Note The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people. Do you suggest getting rid of Medicare and Medicaid too? I do. They are so fraud ridden and so far in debt... we have to do something differently. I'm not saying just cut everyone off cold, but if doctors won't even take the coverage something is wrong! It might be that Medicaid and Medicare just don't pay... or pay enough to cover the cost of the care. How about we try allowing everyone paying taxes to keep that money, and have them in charge of making sure relatives medical is paid... in combination with nonprofits like the salvation army and the red cross? I bet you we'd see a ton less fake charges! Oh, and btw: Fact check for you all... NOBODY is getting health care out of this. That is guaranteed from the moment you set foot in a hospital. You will be taken care of, by law. So, in opinion: This is just a chance to add a bunch of government jobs, and taxes, and paperwork to the health care process. actuelly the debt remark is wrong the social security administration is in the black the united states congress (you know those that you elect but refuse theretirement plan they mandate for you)keep stealing the soocail security money and leave an iou in its place if a private sector company ran its retirement fund the way the fed govt runs theirs they would be up on charges |
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Adj4u,
We're two flags talking to each other. lol Nice to see you again. 
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Edited by
Robm248
on
Tue 03/23/10 07:48 PM
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Factcheck: Here's a look at some of the myths and realities, from both sides of the issue: • Obama has put the nation on a slippery slope toward socialism. Hello? Government's role in health care has been steadily growing since Medicare and Medicaid were established 45 years ago. Even if Republicans were to take control of Washington and repeal this bill, government would still be on track to pick up more than half the nation's health care tab by 2012, according to a report last month from Medicare. "The Republican myth is that the government is for the first time going to take over the health care sector," said economist Joe Antos of the business-oriented American Enterprise Institute. "The takeover was probably largely accomplished in 1965 with the creation of Medicare and Medicaid. Since the early days, Medicare has called the shots on a lot of policy issues that private insurance fell in line with." Still, the new law will undoubtedly expand the government's influence. Sen. Judd Gregg, R-N.H., warned Tuesday it will lead to the "quasi-nationalization of the health industry." Underline "quasi." Democrats dropped their idea of a government insurance plan to compete with private carriers. So any "socialization" will be channeled through Wellpoint, UnitedHealthcare and other private insurance giants. fact check everything you mentioned breaks this amendment to the constitution of the United States Amendment 10 - Powers of the States and People. Ratified 12/15/1791. Note The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people. Do you suggest getting rid of Medicare and Medicaid too? I do. They are so fraud ridden and so far in debt... we have to do something differently. I'm not saying just cut everyone off cold, but if doctors won't even take the coverage something is wrong! It might be that Medicaid and Medicare just don't pay... or pay enough to cover the cost of the care. How about we try allowing everyone paying taxes to keep that money, and have them in charge of making sure relatives medical is paid... in combination with nonprofits like the salvation army and the red cross? I bet you we'd see a ton less fake charges! Oh, and btw: Fact check for you all... NOBODY is getting health care out of this. That is guaranteed from the moment you set foot in a hospital. You will be taken care of, by law. So, in opinion: This is just a chance to add a bunch of government jobs, and taxes, and paperwork to the health care process. actuelly the debt remark is wrong the social security administration is in the black the united states congress (you know those that you elect but refuse theretirement plan they mandate for you)keep stealing the soocail security money and leave an iou in its place if a private sector company ran its retirement fund the way the fed govt runs theirs they would be up on charges True on social security... but the took out the money for what? Medicaid and Medicare. If you look at the last public accountant records for the programs (which are available) they should be so far down the tube that nobody would get anything from them! But there are these big mystery funds that show up to save the day (in the same amount as those social security iou's... odd.) |
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Oh, and btw: Fact check for you all... NOBODY is getting health care out of this. That is guaranteed from the moment you set foot in a hospital. You will be taken care of, by law. Yes, you can go to the ER without insurance. You will get the big bill. If you can't pay it, we all pay it. So...you're at the ER because of seizures. They stop the seizures and find a brain tumor. That's the end of the ER visit. You can't get aftercare for the tumor without insurance. Actually, you will get care for the tumor... you just have to go to the ER for it after you leave the ER (if you can leave, if not they by law must treat you for all conditions which could make it so you can't leave). And yes, we taxpayers foot the bill. So we are already paying for the care... this bill just adds a bunch of government 'jobs' and regulations to the bill. Over $1 trillion worth of regulations and regulators. Honestly, there are reforms needed... but somehow that much money for people telling us what they think about it is just stupid. |
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