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| Topic: Is Waterboarding Torture? | |
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With torture, when do you know you have the truth and end it? When the prisoner is dead? Guess he didn't know anything after all boss! |
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How would you feel if the police were able to use the same tactic to question citizens? If you are talking to me, you're comparing apples to oranges and sorry for the cliche....You want to make this a black and white thing and I don't because as I stated, I cannot choose a position on this one, as a matter of fact, I think every case should be treated individually and if it's my kids life on the line and some jerk of has her hidden away in some sleazy flop house, I don't care what they do to him to make him talk just as long as I get my kid back.... OK? |
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Water boarding is considered torture under International Law...Obama banned it in in the US in 2009...It really didn't get much press here in the states until 2004 when it was made public that it was allegedly used in 02 and 03 by the Bush administration as a means of interrogating three suspected a-Qaeda terrorists.....In 02, The US Legal Counsel did write a memorandum which concluded water boarding was NOT torture and could be used for interrogation purposes...Does that make it right? Probably not...I am hard put to choose a side on this one because after 9/11, the game changed.....Those like Herman Cain, Governor Perry, and Michele Bachman who state unequivocally they would reinstate it if they were elected may not be in the majority, but at least they are being up front about it and I am sure they have access to more facts than I do or ever will have...In all honesty, if I was ever in a position where I had to make a choice and I was convinced American lives were at stake and I could save those lives, I would use any means I could to get the information I needed to protect innocent citizens.....PLEASE DON'T WATER BOARD ME!!!  So anyone arrested can be waterboarded for information? Do you have any idea how many people are arrested under the "Patriot Act" guidelines each year? They can lable ANYONE a terrorist they see fit, invade their home (without a warrant), no due process, no lawyer, no rights....and you want to allow waterboarding too? Forgive me..... haven't we given, or should I say, haven't they TAKEN enough of our liberties, freedoms and rights already? What next? Warrantless executions? Forgot, Obummer already did that! Don't read your own meaning into what I wrote...And yes, I do have a pretty good idea how many people are arrested under the Patriot Act "guidelines" each year....It does not change my opinion....  I respect your opinion but am definately in opposition of it! So what would you do if YOU had to make the decision? That is what prisons are for! They are not ment for non-violent offenders like teenage pot smokers! I didn't make myself clear....If you held the lives of innocent people in your hands but you needed to torture someone in order to save them, what would you do?....Just curious... ID pass out from the pressure and people would die. Id like to think I could never take a life except in immediate self defense. Id like to think that even if a gun was to my own head I would rather die than take a life,,,,but Ive never been there, so I just cant truly even imagine how it would play out. I could never be Jack Bauer, but Im one who would probably be grateful that a Jack Bauer existed,,lol |
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How would you feel if the police were able to use the same tactic to question citizens? I think with citizens it is a different scenario, usually. Nothing is absolute. However, in cases where the point is to solve a crime that is already COMMITTED, there is no issue of time, not the same urgency as there is in trying to PREVENT a crime which will lead to multiple deaths. Then there is also the geography where the resources, manpower, and cooperation are already there, which makes it a little bit easier to merely 'investigate' further to prevent the crime. Under the patriot act the can raid your home without a warrant by falling under "co-operative" mandates. They then hope they find something to convict you of. It's a tool of abuse by law enforcement! |
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How would you feel if the police were able to use the same tactic to question citizens? If you are talking to me, you're comparing apples to oranges and sorry for the cliche....You want to make this a black and white thing and I don't because as I stated, I cannot choose a position on this one, as a matter of fact, I think every case should be treated individually and if it's my kids life on the line and some jerk of has her hidden away in some sleazy flop house, I don't care what they do to him to make him talk just as long as I get my kid back.... OK? THAT is the exact response they are looking for to the question! Give up your rights and freedoms for protection, and you have neither! |
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How would you feel if the police were able to use the same tactic to question citizens? If you are talking to me, you're comparing apples to oranges and sorry for the cliche....You want to make this a black and white thing and I don't because as I stated, I cannot choose a position on this one, as a matter of fact, I think every case should be treated individually and if it's my kids life on the line and some jerk of has her hidden away in some sleazy flop house, I don't care what they do to him to make him talk just as long as I get my kid back.... OK? It was to the room more than singling you out Leigh. And I agree with your sentiments. All is fair in love and war. Although I dont think divorce lawyers condone waterboarding. |
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How would you feel if the police were able to use the same tactic to question citizens? I think with citizens it is a different scenario, usually. Nothing is absolute. However, in cases where the point is to solve a crime that is already COMMITTED, there is no issue of time, not the same urgency as there is in trying to PREVENT a crime which will lead to multiple deaths. Then there is also the geography where the resources, manpower, and cooperation are already there, which makes it a little bit easier to merely 'investigate' further to prevent the crime. Under the patriot act the can raid your home without a warrant by falling under "co-operative" mandates. They then hope they find something to convict you of. It's a tool of abuse by law enforcement! Paranoia is not the answer either.... |
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How would you feel if the police were able to use the same tactic to question citizens? If you are talking to me, you're comparing apples to oranges and sorry for the cliche....You want to make this a black and white thing and I don't because as I stated, I cannot choose a position on this one, as a matter of fact, I think every case should be treated individually and if it's my kids life on the line and some jerk of has her hidden away in some sleazy flop house, I don't care what they do to him to make him talk just as long as I get my kid back.... OK? It was to the room more than singling you out Leigh. And I agree with your sentiments. All is fair in love and war. Although I dont think divorce lawyers condone waterboarding. Why not, the condone everything else..... |
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perhaps mine was just being cautious
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How would you feel if the police were able to use the same tactic to question citizens? If you are talking to me, you're comparing apples to oranges and sorry for the cliche....You want to make this a black and white thing and I don't because as I stated, I cannot choose a position on this one, as a matter of fact, I think every case should be treated individually and if it's my kids life on the line and some jerk of has her hidden away in some sleazy flop house, I don't care what they do to him to make him talk just as long as I get my kid back.... OK? THAT is the exact response they are looking for to the question! Give up your rights and freedoms for protection, and you have neither! They? Who the hell is they?????? |
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Edited by
Conrad_73
on
Mon 11/14/11 02:26 PM
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When I was in Nam, we paid for info, and got it! We protected 3 villages from our base. There were "incidents" with the cong, but never to much avail counting the village as the "whole" in the equation. We would then hunt the cong down and kill or capture them. You've never heard that you catch more flies with sugar? Like I said,I have to sit on the Fence on this one! If it were up to me,I might,then I might not! Probably case by case! |
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Edited by
Optomistic69
on
Mon 11/14/11 02:30 PM
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How would you feel if the police were able to use the same tactic to question citizens? If you are talking to me, you're comparing apples to oranges and sorry for the cliche....You want to make this a black and white thing and I don't because as I stated, I cannot choose a position on this one, as a matter of fact, I think every case should be treated individually and if it's my kids life on the line and some jerk of has her hidden away in some sleazy flop house, I don't care what they do to him to make him talk just as long as I get my kid back.... OK? THAT is the exact response they are looking for to the question! Give up your rights and freedoms for protection, and you have neither! It seems to me that those who have most to lose are those most scared and they in turn become the mouthpieces of the those that rule us all. Notice that those on the right tend to call the left useful idiots. Well it turns out now that there are useful idiots on the right as well but they chose to look down instead of up. Those that sit on the fence deserve nothing |
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How would you feel if the police were able to use the same tactic to question citizens? If you are talking to me, you're comparing apples to oranges and sorry for the cliche....You want to make this a black and white thing and I don't because as I stated, I cannot choose a position on this one, as a matter of fact, I think every case should be treated individually and if it's my kids life on the line and some jerk of has her hidden away in some sleazy flop house, I don't care what they do to him to make him talk just as long as I get my kid back.... OK? THAT is the exact response they are looking for to the question! Give up your rights and freedoms for protection, and you have neither! It seems to me that those who have most to lose are those most scared and they in turn become the mouthpieces of the those that rule us all. Notice that those on the right tend to call the left useful idiots. Well it turns out now that there are useful idiots on the right as well but they chose to look down instead of up. Those that sit on the fence deserve nothing what about those who just dont see one ABSOLUTE answer to complex problems? |
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When I was in Nam, we paid for info, and got it! We protected 3 villages from our base. There were "incidents" with the cong, but never to much avail counting the village as the "whole" in the equation. We would then hunt the cong down and kill or capture them. You've never heard that you catch more flies with sugar? Like I said,I have to sit on the Fence on this one! If it were up to me,I might,then I might not! Probably case by case! I took an oath to protect and defend the constitution, and protect human life. Torture is not protecting human life, it is immoral, inhumane and against every treaty the US, MY COUNTRY, has ever signed! Practicing torture is therefore illegal, and you can be arrested for it. Bush and Cheney and the crew should have been up on charges! If you start torturing (as you said) a child abductor, they will start killing the child to avoid capture! |
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How would you feel if the police were able to use the same tactic to question citizens? If you are talking to me, you're comparing apples to oranges and sorry for the cliche....You want to make this a black and white thing and I don't because as I stated, I cannot choose a position on this one, as a matter of fact, I think every case should be treated individually and if it's my kids life on the line and some jerk of has her hidden away in some sleazy flop house, I don't care what they do to him to make him talk just as long as I get my kid back.... OK? THAT is the exact response they are looking for to the question! Give up your rights and freedoms for protection, and you have neither! It seems to me that those who have most to lose are those most scared and they in turn become the mouthpieces of the those that rule us all. Notice that those on the right tend to call the left useful idiots. Well it turns out now that there are useful idiots on the right as well but they chose to look down instead of up. Those that sit on the fence deserve nothing what about those who just dont see one ABSOLUTE answer to complex problems? Nothing complex about the question in this thread. In fact it is a very simple question |
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Edited by
msharmony
on
Mon 11/14/11 02:39 PM
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When I was in Nam, we paid for info, and got it! We protected 3 villages from our base. There were "incidents" with the cong, but never to much avail counting the village as the "whole" in the equation. We would then hunt the cong down and kill or capture them. You've never heard that you catch more flies with sugar? Like I said,I have to sit on the Fence on this one! If it were up to me,I might,then I might not! Probably case by case! I took an oath to protect and defend the constitution, and protect human life. Torture is not protecting human life, it is immoral, inhumane and against every treaty the US, MY COUNTRY, has ever signed! Practicing torture is therefore illegal, and you can be arrested for it. Bush and Cheney and the crew should have been up on charges! If you start torturing (as you said) a child abductor, they will start killing the child to avoid capture! I think there is sufficient grey area in that oath within the fact that the job may require you to SHOOT DEAD other young folks who never knew or did anything to you. Id call that harming human life too.. war is harmful and no doubt doesnt always serve to just 'protect' life. I dont think governments win 'wars' through mere negotiations and friendly question and answer sessions,,, but thats just a guess, who knows what the truth is |
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How would you feel if the police were able to use the same tactic to question citizens? If you are talking to me, you're comparing apples to oranges and sorry for the cliche....You want to make this a black and white thing and I don't because as I stated, I cannot choose a position on this one, as a matter of fact, I think every case should be treated individually and if it's my kids life on the line and some jerk of has her hidden away in some sleazy flop house, I don't care what they do to him to make him talk just as long as I get my kid back.... OK? THAT is the exact response they are looking for to the question! Give up your rights and freedoms for protection, and you have neither! It seems to me that those who have most to lose are those most scared and they in turn become the mouthpieces of the those that rule us all. Notice that those on the right tend to call the left useful idiots. Well it turns out now that there are useful idiots on the right as well but they chose to look down instead of up. Those that sit on the fence deserve nothing what about those who just dont see one ABSOLUTE answer to complex problems? Nothing complex about the question in this thread. In fact it is a very simple question there is nothing simple about a decision made to weigh one life against dozens or hundreds of lives at least, I Would never consider it a 'simple' question,, |
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Theres no doubt that the world would be a different place if America afforded the same rights to citizens of other countries as it does to its own.
As a citizen of another country, I believe that the American Constitution is one of the greatest aspirations of humanity, its nobility is self evident and it stands as tall and wide as the pyramids, as impressive as the great wall of China as an icon of civilisation. Its worth defending Sojourner. |
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Water boarding is considered torture under International Law...Obama banned it in in the US in 2009...It really didn't get much press here in the states until 2004 when it was made public that it was allegedly used in 02 and 03 by the Bush administration as a means of interrogating three suspected a-Qaeda terrorists.....In 02, The US Legal Counsel did write a memorandum which concluded water boarding was NOT torture and could be used for interrogation purposes...Does that make it right? Probably not...I am hard put to choose a side on this one because after 9/11, the game changed.....Those like Herman Cain, Governor Perry, and Michele Bachman who state unequivocally they would reinstate it if they were elected may not be in the majority, but at least they are being up front about it and I am sure they have access to more facts than I do or ever will have...In all honesty, if I was ever in a position where I had to make a choice and I was convinced American lives were at stake and I could save those lives, I would use any means I could to get the information I needed to protect innocent citizens.....PLEASE DON'T WATER BOARD ME!!! http://www.antiwar.com/news/?articleid=2444 http://www.antiwar.com/news/?articleid=8560 It makes me sick we have people in our country that do these things and even sicker others allow it. |
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How would you feel if the police were able to use the same tactic to question citizens? If you are talking to me, you're comparing apples to oranges and sorry for the cliche....You want to make this a black and white thing and I don't because as I stated, I cannot choose a position on this one, as a matter of fact, I think every case should be treated individually and if it's my kids life on the line and some jerk of has her hidden away in some sleazy flop house, I don't care what they do to him to make him talk just as long as I get my kid back.... OK? THAT is the exact response they are looking for to the question! Give up your rights and freedoms for protection, and you have neither! It seems to me that those who have most to lose are those most scared and they in turn become the mouthpieces of the those that rule us all. Notice that those on the right tend to call the left useful idiots. Well it turns out now that there are useful idiots on the right as well but they chose to look down instead of up. Those that sit on the fence deserve nothing what about those who just dont see one ABSOLUTE answer to complex problems? Nothing complex about the question in this thread. In fact it is a very simple question there is nothing simple about a decision made to weigh one life against dozens or hundreds of lives at least, I Would never consider it a 'simple' question,, When you consider the money that is spent on intelligence agencies around the world and then having to resort to a gallon of water and a towel to get results ....The mind boggles ,not at the complexity but the stupidity. |
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