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| Topic: The Hatred in the Heart of White America | |
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it seems that whenever someone brings up the horrors of slavery, the response is something like "the hate of the white man"... isn't that statement alone showing more racism with a broader range than anything else?
as it has been pointed out to me, over and over, not all white men hate. not all white men owned slaves. so if people don't want racism, why are they directing the prejudiced towards all white men? |
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the proximity of racist and radical americans ...the NUMBER of potentially racist radicals It looks to me like you are begging the question by accusing some Americans of racism without providing evidence that they are guilty of racism. . . but that is my opinion. I dont get your point dodo, why would I need to prove there are racist or radical americans? does being born on american soil somehow incubate humans from this trend? isnt it common sense? Sure, I have noticed plenty of racist and radical Americans who are Democrats. I have noticed plenty of racist and radical Americans who are African-Americans. Perhaps they are "the most 'present and clear' danger that affects our country." perhaps, though I am not aware of much information regarding democratic terrorists or black terrorists either,,,,, MH, you realize that the OP was satire? It was directed at liberals who believe exactly what you have been posting. metal, you do realize that has no bearing on my opinion about muslims and the 'threat' they pose, or the other issues posed in the piece? I see. You missed completely the "issue" in the piece. It was not about comparing racism to terrorism. It was about the intellectual dishonesty of liberals in it's discussion. so , it was just a thread to belittle one group and any discussion that doesnt agree with that belittling is too off topic to be in this thread,,,or proof that one belongs to that stereotype being belittled got it,,,, |
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it seems that whenever someone brings up the horrors of slavery, the response is something like "the hate of the white man"... isn't that statement alone showing more racism with a broader range than anything else? as it has been pointed out to me, over and over, not all white men hate. not all white men owned slaves. so if people don't want racism, why are they directing the prejudiced towards all white men? I agree, I think the op is wrong not only in attributing race to religion, but in any intended implication that all white people are hateful generalizations are often how we discuss things, but words like 'some' or other qualifiers never hurt,,, sometimes its hard to distinguish in writing whether one is referring to a subgroup within a group, or labeling the entire group,,, |
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it seems that whenever someone brings up the horrors of slavery, the response is something like "the hate of the white man"... isn't that statement alone showing more racism with a broader range than anything else? as it has been pointed out to me, over and over, not all white men hate. not all white men owned slaves. so if people don't want racism, why are they directing the prejudiced towards all white men? I agree, I think the op is wrong not only in attributing race to religion, but in any intended implication that all white people are hateful generalizations are often how we discuss things, but words like 'some' or other qualifiers never hurt,,, sometimes its hard to distinguish in writing whether one is referring to a subgroup within a group, or labeling the entire group,,, i think that's where a lot of the prejudice/racism comes into play because of the labels, group and subgroups.. |
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by my calculations, I am probably far outnumbered by white racists than others are by black racist When you mentioned racism in your first post, you didn't specify racism coming from any source in particular. Now, you want to change the topic from racism in general to racism from a particular source. It is as if you are moving the goal posts while the game is still being played. Also, if racism is a clear and present danger, then it is no matter who is engaging in racism. Thus, racism on the part of Democrats and racism on the part of African-Americans are a part of the clear and present danger to the USA that you originally mentioned. |
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by my calculations, I am probably far outnumbered by white racists than others are by black racist When you mentioned racism in your first post, you didn't specify racism coming from any source in particular. Now, you want to change the topic from racism in general to racism from a particular source. It is as if you are moving the goal posts while the game is still being played. Also, if racism is a clear and present danger, then it is no matter who is engaging in racism. Thus, racism on the part of Democrats and racism on the part of African-Americans are a part of the clear and present danger to the USA that you originally mentioned. yes, racism is a clear and present danger no, it is no matter where the racism is coming from yes, it does matter where the RADICALISM comes from yes, it does matter the OPPORTUNITY AVAIALBE FOR RADICALISM no, I did not introduce race, I responded to its introduction by someone else and there are many threats in this country, Yet, speaking of only those from the OP,, That is, white racism and radical muslim it is STILL my opinion that the RACISM described is more the prevalent threat in the us than RADICAL ISLAMICISM |
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but this was never meant to be a black and white discussion,,, the point is that racism and radicalism,,,when combined,, is more of a threat to americans IN THE USA than muslim radicalism is,,,, all with the immediate opportunity to do harm that most muslims in other countries dont have,,,,,or those in america in the numbers game, the racism between whites and blacks is far more dangerous than the 'muslim' radicalism in the usa 
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In my opinion, false claims of racism are equally damaging to serenity in the USA.
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In my opinion, false claims of racism are equally damaging to serenity in the USA. well, if we are switching to the topic of 'serenity',,,the possibilities and opinions are endless,,,, |
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In my opinion, false claims of racism are equally damaging to serenity in the USA. well, if we are switching to the topic of 'serenity',,,the possibilities and opinions are endless,,,, msharmony, in your first post on this thread, you say, "we are much more impacted on a much more regular basis by the racism that happens inside our country, than we are by the terrorists who slip in form other countries,," So how does the alleged "racism" in your first post impact the USA? Does the alleged "racism" not damage the serenity in the USA? |
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It was cool and rainy Sunday morning when the bomb ripped through the building. At 10:22, a group of children was just heading into the basement to hear a sermon at the 16th Street Baptist Church in Birmingham, Ala. According to a Washington Post account at the time: Dozens of survivors, their faces dripping blood from the glass that flew out of the church's stained glass windows, staggered around the building in a cloud of white dust raised by the explosion. Four girls were killed. The head of one little girl was found far from her body. Twenty-two others were injured. Wandering through his devastated church, the Rev. John H. Cross found a megaphone and asked the enraged and stunned crowd to disperse. "The Lord is our shepherd," he sobbed, "we shall not want." This week, Congress marked the 50th anniversary of that terror attack by posthumously awarding the Congressional Gold Medal to Denise McNair, Carole Robertson, Addie Mae Collins and Cynthia Wesley. We Americans are not confused about the morality of what happened in Birmingham that September morning in 1963, nor during the Jim Crow era in America generally. We do not hesitate to condemn utterly the behavior and the beliefs of the Ku Klux Klan (the perpetrators of this bombing and others) and their white supremacist fellow travelers. We do not worry that reviling white supremacists and their grotesque deeds will somehow taint all white people. But when it comes to other groups and other motives for the same kind of terrorism — we lose our moral focus. Bill Ayers, Bernadine Dohrn and Kathy Boudin have become honored members of the faculties at leading universities. Ayers is even the friend of the president of the United States. Regarding his own record of setting bombs that kill and dismember innocent people, Ayers told The New York Times on the ironic date of Sept. 11, 2001 that "I feel we didn't do enough ... (there's) a certain eloquence to bombs, a poetry and a pattern from a safe distance." So says a retired "distinguished professor" at the University of Illinois at Chicago. Today, American liberals are obsessed not with terrorism but with the color and ethnicity of terrorists. They can readily enough attribute violent tendencies to groups they dislike — the tea party, for example, which hasn't committed so much as a littering offense. But when it comes to Islamic terrorism, their voices falter. Attorney General Eric Holder, asked whether three attacks on the United States (the underwear bomber, the Times Square bomber and Maj. Nidal Hassan) could be attributed to "Islamic" radicalism, refused to say so. Asked repeatedly whether religious motives played a role, Holder would say only, "there are a variety of reasons why people have taken these actions." Janet Napolitano has been quick to dismiss terror attempts as "one offs." Would Holder and Napolitano say the same about white supremacists? Each one had his own motivations and we can't surmise what those factors were? There is a tendency among many on the left to temper their disgust and indignation at political violence (i.e. terror) if the terrorist is from the "correct" group. "Muslim ... means not being white" Peter Beinert writes in the Daily Beast. Beinert and other liberals imagine that the U.S. is a cauldron of teeming racism with the lid barely kept down. At the first acknowledgment that Islamists (some, but by no means, all of whom are dark skinned) present a continuing threat, the lid will fly off and white American vigilantes, given permission, will start shooting black and brown people on the streets, burning their shops, and bombing mosques. The hatred that Islamism preaches, lauds and inspires is a nuisance, liberals may concede. But the hatred in the heart of "white America" is the greater danger. Mona Charen's column is released once a week. Do you believe her? well, I think the author makes an irrelvant point about the color or muslims,, they are all colors, as this past bombing exemplifies but as far as danger, I think the human tendency is to deal with the 'danger' in front of us rather than the one around the road the nature of being an american,, and living in the USA, means we are most closely affected by the racism within our own borders,,,,rather than the hatred others around the world may feel for us we are much more impacted on a much more regular basis by the racism that happens inside our country, than we are by the terrorists who slip in form other countries,,,, so, I dont compare danger as being 'greater', but I feel racism is the most 'present and clear' danger that affects our country,,, excellent , well said. Anything that affects our unity as Americans here at home is a far worse threat than that frm abroad. We as Americans must resolve not to divide ourselves along racial (or other) lines look at it this way, if you are bleeding on the battlefront do you REALLY care about the rce , gender , or religion of the person who saves you? really? |
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by my calculations, I am probably far outnumbered by white racists than others are by black racist When you mentioned racism in your first post, you didn't specify racism coming from any source in particular. Now, you want to change the topic from racism in general to racism from a particular source. It is as if you are moving the goal posts while the game is still being played. Also, if racism is a clear and present danger, then it is no matter who is engaging in racism. Thus, racism on the part of Democrats and racism on the part of African-Americans are a part of the clear and present danger to the USA that you originally mentioned. yes, racism is a clear and present danger no, it is no matter where the racism is coming from yes, it does matter where the RADICALISM comes from yes, it does matter the OPPORTUNITY AVAIALBE FOR RADICALISM no, I did not introduce race, I responded to its introduction by someone else and there are many threats in this country, Yet, speaking of only those from the OP,, That is, white racism and radical muslim it is STILL my opinion that the RACISM described is more the prevalent threat in the us than RADICAL ISLAMICISM lately I notice easily as much racism from people of "color" toward white folks and other people of (different) color/race...where it exists (which is not often fortunately) also before getting too caught up in the evils of slavery it is also true that there were many African/Black traders as well. That does not make it any better AT ALL. The real evil is the enslavement of ANYONE!!! |
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lately I notice easily as much racism from people of "color" toward white folks and other people of (different) color/race...where it exists (which is not often fortunately) also before getting too caught up in the evils of slavery it is also true that there were many African/Black traders as well. That does not make it any better AT ALL. The real evil is the enslavement of ANYONE!!! If I recall correctly, Europeans didn't necessarily capture every African who was enslaved during earlier centuries. Instead, Africans were capturing other Africans (of different tribes I think) and selling the captives to the Europeans who visited Africa. Anyway, if racism is a threat to the USA, then all racism is a threat, including the racism of Americans who happen to be Democrats, as well as the racism of Americans who happen to be African-Americans. |
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Edited by
msharmony
on
Sat 04/27/13 07:14 PM
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lately I notice easily as much racism from people of "color" toward white folks and other people of (different) color/race...where it exists (which is not often fortunately) also before getting too caught up in the evils of slavery it is also true that there were many African/Black traders as well. That does not make it any better AT ALL. The real evil is the enslavement of ANYONE!!! If I recall correctly, Europeans didn't necessarily capture every African who was enslaved during earlier centuries. Instead, Africans were capturing other Africans (of different tribes I think) and selling the captives to the Europeans who visited Africa. Anyway, if racism is a threat to the USA, then all racism is a threat, including the racism of Americans who happen to be Democrats, as well as the racism of Americans who happen to be African-Americans. yep, although the racial history of the US makes the races , as a demographic, economically, judicially, and politically unequal in their power and authority racism is not the monopoly of a political party or race,,, admittedly, I dont care nearly as much about racism on a personal level, as I do on the institutional level you can dislike me for whatever reason you want, race, gender, etc,,, as long as that doesnt manifest into giving me unequal right or privilege ,,,,or disrespect,,,, the guy at the store that calls me nigg@@ its his personal issue with no real impact on me the judge or police or politician who thinks nigg2s are a nuisance and presides over my case or a loved one,, or over the laws in my community, who has the authority to decide between their freedom or imprisonment more of an impact on me,,, more of what I care about |
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admittedly, I dont care nearly as much about racism on a personal level, as I do on the institutional level OK, provide evidence of modern-day racism on the institutional level. |
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Edited by
msharmony
on
Sat 04/27/13 11:13 PM
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admittedly, I dont care nearly as much about racism on a personal level, as I do on the institutional level OK, provide evidence of modern-day racism on the institutional level. IM doubting the things I post will serve as enough 'proof' feels more like debate for debate sake at this point,,,,, but, so I wont be accused of dodging or not having said 'proof' here are a few studies and facts following this post ------------------------------------------------------------- Fact: Black youths arrested for drug possession are 48 times more likely to wind up in prison than white youths arrested for the same crime under the same circumstances. Source: “Young White Offenders get lighter treatment,” 2000. The Tennessean. April 26: 8A. Fact: Black and Latino men are three times more likely than white men to be stopped by the police and have their cars searched – even though white men are four times more likely to have weapons or drugs. Source: Matthew R. Durose, Erica L. Schmitt and Patrick A. Langan, Contacts Between Police and the Public: Findings from the 2002 National Survey. U.S. Department of Justice, (Bureau of Justice Statistics), April 2005. Fact: White men with a criminal record are more likely to be called back for a job interview than black men with no record, even when their education and experience are the same. Source: Pager, Devah. 2003. “The Mark of a Criminal Record.” American Journal of Sociology. Volume 108: 5, March: 937-75. Fact: Students of colour are far less likely to be put in honours courses even after you take test scores and grades into account. Source: Gordon, Rebecca. 1998. Education and Race. Oakland: Applied Research Center: 48-9; Fischer, Claude S. et al., 1996. Inequality by Design: Cracking the Bell Curve Myth. Princeton, NJ: Princeton University Press: 163; Steinhorn, Leonard and Barabara Diggs-Brown, 1999. By the Color of Our Skin: The Illusion of Integration and the Reality of Race. NY: Dutton: 95-6. Fact: Students of colour are more than twice as likely to be suspended or expelled from school even though they are not much more likely to break school rules than whites. Source: Skiba, Russell J. et al., The Color of Discipline: Sources of Racial and Gender Disproportionality in School Punishment. Indiana Education Policy Center, Policy Research Report SRS1, June 2000; U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, Youth Risk Behavior Surveillance System: Youth 2003, Online Comprehensive Results, 2004. |
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Edited by
Leigh2154
on
Sun 04/28/13 08:42 AM
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the abolishment of slavery and jim crow shows that we can evolve and change 'human nature',,,,,not that we will ever completely rid the world or the usa of racist ideals or perceptions ,, but we can stigmatize racist behavior , actions, words,, and stigma can reduce how often we see things occurring,,, slavery and jim crow were not human nature. they were accepted and institutionalized by governments. slavery and jim crow cannot exist without the complicity of government. people of all races arose and said enough is enough. the macro level of racism that was acceptable due to government involvement has passed. the micro level of racism that exists amongst certain individuals that work outside the boundaries of entire groups will never cease regardless of what you do. people preferring to associate within their own race or ethnicity is human nature and will never change. I will agree to disagree about what 'human nature' is,,, I personally believe racism is learned behavior,,, my personal observation of children who are very young is they just wanted to play with each other,, they saw each other as another 'child' instead of another 'race'.... people seek to belong, they are taught what 'groups' they belong in,,,,,, I will also agree to disagree with your examples. Do you think that whites learning diversity and blacks learning about how evil whites were during slavery and jim crow is the kind of learning that will end racism? well, I actually believe the young mind is very easily molded, and if taught those things from a young age the TENDENCY towards racism will decrease but back to the point,, again, the achievable goal here is not 'ending' racism, as racism is so many things on so many levels,, beginning with a belief system and ending in an institutional trend the acheivable goal is 'reducins' the threat of racism in areas of life that americans have come to , for lack of a better word expect merely for being american,,, Those things are being taught from a young age...Racism has not been an accepted practice in the United States since the passing in 1964 of the Civil Rights Act....Micro levels of racism, as Invictus pointed out, are here to stay...Human nature dictates that people of EVERY race, EVERYWHERE "prefer" to associate with "likeminded" people...That, also, will not change... Todays racism is being taught Harmony and lets be clear about WHO is teaching it and HOW they are teaching it...It's being taught by the TERRORIST ACTIONS of the radical racist groups that exist within EVERY race THROUGHOUT the entire world...It cannot "taught" away, it can only be controlled and contained... |
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Tribalism
¶ Tribalism (which is the best name to give to all the group manifestations of the anti-conceptual mentality) is a dominant element in Europe, as a reciprocally reinforcing cause and result of Europe’s long history of caste systems, of national and local (provincial) chauvinism, of rule by brute force and endless, bloody wars. As an example, observe the Balkan nations, which are perennially bent upon exterminating one another over minuscule differences of tradition or language. Tribalism had no place in the United States—until recent decades. It could not take root here, its imported seedlings were withering away and turning to slag in the melting pot whose fire was fed by two inexhaustible sources of energy: individual rights and objective law; these two were the only protection man needed What are the nature and the causes of modern tribalism? Philosophically, tribalism is the product of irrationalism and collectivism. It is a logical consequence of modern philosophy. If men accept the notion that reason is not valid, what is to guide them and how are they to live? Obviously, they will seek to join some group—any group—which claims the ability to lead them and to provide some sort of knowledge acquired by some sort of unspecified means. If men accept the notion that the individual is helpless, intellectually and morally, that he has no mind and no rights, that he is nothing, but the group is all, and his only moral significance lies in selfless service to the group—they will be pulled obediently to join a group. But which group? Well, if you believe that you have no mind and no moral value, you cannot have the confidence to make choices—so the only thing for you to do is to join an unchosen group, the group into which you were born, the group to which you were predestined to belong by the sovereign, omnipotent, omniscient power of your body chemistry. This, of course, is racism. But if your group is small enough, it will not be called “racism”: it will be called “ethnicity.” A symptom of the tribal mentality’s self-arrested, perceptual level of development may be observed in the tribalists’ position on language. Language is a conceptual tool—a code of visual-auditory symbols that denote concepts. To a person who understands the function of language, it makes no difference what sounds are chosen to name things, provided these sounds refer to clearly defined aspects of reality. But to a tribalist, language is a mystic heritage, a string of sounds handed down from his ancestors and memorized, not understood. To him, the importance lies in the perceptual concrete, the sound of a word, not its meaning. He would kill and die for the privilege of printing on every postage stamp the word “postage” for the English-speaking and the word “postes” for the French-speaking citizens of his bilingual Canada. Since most of the ethnic languages are not full languages, but merely dialects or local corruptions of a country’s language, the distinctions which the tribalists fight for are not even as big as that. But, of course, it is not for their language that the tribalists are fighting: they are fighting to protect their level of awareness, their mental passivity, their obedience to the tribe, and their desire to ignore the existence of outsiders. It is obvious why the morality of altruism is a tribal phenomenon. Prehistorical men were physically unable to survive without clinging to a tribe for leadership and protection against other tribes. The cause of altruism’s perpetuation into civilized eras is not physical, but psycho-epistemological: the men of self-arrested, perceptual mentality are unable to survive without tribal leadership and “protection” against reality. The doctrine of self-sacrifice does not offend them: they have no sense of self or of personal value—they do not know what it is that they are asked to sacrifice—they have no firsthand inkling of such things as intellectual integrity, love of truth, personally chosen values, or a passionate dedication to an idea. When they hear injunctions against “selfishness,” they believe that what they must renounce is the brute, mindless whim-worship of a tribal lone wolf. But their leaders—the theoreticians of altruism—know better. Immanuel Kant knew it; John Dewey knew it; B. F. Skinner knows it; John Rawls knows it. Observe that it is not the mindless brute, but reason, intelligence, ability, merit, self-confidence, self-esteem that they are out to destroy. Today, we are seeing a ghastly spectacle: a magnificent scientific civilization dominated by the morality of prehistorical savagery. http://aynrandlexicon.com/lexicon/tribalism.html |
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Edited by
msharmony
on
Sun 04/28/13 09:27 AM
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the abolishment of slavery and jim crow shows that we can evolve and change 'human nature',,,,,not that we will ever completely rid the world or the usa of racist ideals or perceptions ,, but we can stigmatize racist behavior , actions, words,, and stigma can reduce how often we see things occurring,,, slavery and jim crow were not human nature. they were accepted and institutionalized by governments. slavery and jim crow cannot exist without the complicity of government. people of all races arose and said enough is enough. the macro level of racism that was acceptable due to government involvement has passed. the micro level of racism that exists amongst certain individuals that work outside the boundaries of entire groups will never cease regardless of what you do. people preferring to associate within their own race or ethnicity is human nature and will never change. I will agree to disagree about what 'human nature' is,,, I personally believe racism is learned behavior,,, my personal observation of children who are very young is they just wanted to play with each other,, they saw each other as another 'child' instead of another 'race'.... people seek to belong, they are taught what 'groups' they belong in,,,,,, I will also agree to disagree with your examples. Do you think that whites learning diversity and blacks learning about how evil whites were during slavery and jim crow is the kind of learning that will end racism? well, I actually believe the young mind is very easily molded, and if taught those things from a young age the TENDENCY towards racism will decrease but back to the point,, again, the achievable goal here is not 'ending' racism, as racism is so many things on so many levels,, beginning with a belief system and ending in an institutional trend the acheivable goal is 'reducins' the threat of racism in areas of life that americans have come to , for lack of a better word expect merely for being american,,, Those things are being taught from a young age...Racism has not been an accepted practice in the United States since the passing in 1964 of the Civil Rights Act....Micro levels of racism, as Invictus pointed out, are here to stay...Human nature dictates that people of EVERY race, EVERYWHERE "prefer" to associate with "likeminded" people...That, also, will not change... Todays racism is being taught Harmony and lets be clear about WHO is teaching it and HOW they are teaching it...It's being taught by the TERRORIST ACTIONS of the radical racist groups that exist within EVERY race THROUGHOUT the entire world...It cannot "taught" away, it can only be controlled and contained... because legal racism has been banned in the last fifty years, doesnt erase the CAPACITY for americans to be accepting of it for the first several hundred,,,,,history has shown that americans are CAPABLE of this behavior on a grand scale,,,,we dont have such history in america with radical muslims,,,,,,on any such comparable grand scale as far as racism in general,,, I Truly dont believe racism is simply being taught by 'terrorist actions' or even groups racism is taught in MANY places and in many ways, through media, through educational example, through good old fashioned parental example racists arent born they are created, and none of us live forever, so from generation to generation there is an opportunity to 'teach away' racism in terms of reducing it the same way the LGBT has been able to successfully 'teach away' the mentality that homosexuality is wrong or unnatural,,,,,,although many people still believe it,, I think they are successfully waging a war that is shaming and guilting people more and more from generation to generation from believing that way ,,,, the same can be done and has been being done with racism, I see no reason to stop,,,,,,or just throw up the hands in acceptance of it in areas where peoples lives and futures and freedoms and livelihoods are at hand,,,, |
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why not also provide the NON Muslim 'attempts' and 'plots' Im gonna wager there were plenty more,,,,, leading me to continue to believe that 'islamist' terrorism isnt the primary threat people keep repeating that it is,,,,,. there is no other logical conclusion to come to. In addition to the numbers of attempts and attacks there are warnings from other nations (to us - about Islamic terror), there are other nations who have been dealing with their terrorism for decades already (who we need to listen to), and there are their "death to america" chants as a rallying cry. We have been at war in Iraq and Afghanistan. and I think technically we are still at war. Our gov't would be behavely irresponsibly if it did not monitor muslims in this country at this time. I believe it behaves irresponsibly by allowing further immigration at this time. I agree with the pig. This is not a racial issue. |
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