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| Topic: The Hatred in the Heart of White America | |
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the abolishment of slavery and jim crow shows that we can evolve and change 'human nature',,,,,not that we will ever completely rid the world or the usa of racist ideals or perceptions ,, but we can stigmatize racist behavior , actions, words,, and stigma can reduce how often we see things occurring,,, slavery and jim crow were not human nature. they were accepted and institutionalized by governments. slavery and jim crow cannot exist without the complicity of government. people of all races arose and said enough is enough. the macro level of racism that was acceptable due to government involvement has passed. the micro level of racism that exists amongst certain individuals that work outside the boundaries of entire groups will never cease regardless of what you do. people preferring to associate within their own race or ethnicity is human nature and will never change. I will agree to disagree about what 'human nature' is,,, I personally believe racism is learned behavior,,, my personal observation of children who are very young is they just wanted to play with each other,, they saw each other as another 'child' instead of another 'race'.... people seek to belong, they are taught what 'groups' they belong in,,,,,, I will also agree to disagree with your examples. Do you think that whites learning diversity and blacks learning about how evil whites were during slavery and jim crow is the kind of learning that will end racism? well, I actually believe the young mind is very easily molded, and if taught those things from a young age the TENDENCY towards racism will decrease but back to the point,, again, the achievable goal here is not 'ending' racism, as racism is so many things on so many levels,, beginning with a belief system and ending in an institutional trend the acheivable goal is 'reducins' the threat of racism in areas of life that americans have come to , for lack of a better word expect merely for being american,,, Those things are being taught from a young age...Racism has not been an accepted practice in the United States since the passing in 1964 of the Civil Rights Act....Micro levels of racism, as Invictus pointed out, are here to stay...Human nature dictates that people of EVERY race, EVERYWHERE "prefer" to associate with "likeminded" people...That, also, will not change... Todays racism is being taught Harmony and lets be clear about WHO is teaching it and HOW they are teaching it...It's being taught by the TERRORIST ACTIONS of the radical racist groups that exist within EVERY race THROUGHOUT the entire world...It cannot "taught" away, it can only be controlled and contained... because legal racism has been banned in the last fifty years, doesnt erase the CAPACITY for americans to be accepting of it for the first several hundred,,,,,history has shown that americans are CAPABLE of this behavior on a grand scale,,,,we dont have such history in america with radical muslims,,,,,,on any such comparable grand scale Think globalization..... |
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lately I notice easily as much racism from people of "color" toward white folks and other people of (different) color/race...where it exists (which is not often fortunately) also before getting too caught up in the evils of slavery it is also true that there were many African/Black traders as well. That does not make it any better AT ALL. The real evil is the enslavement of ANYONE!!! If I recall correctly, Europeans didn't necessarily capture every African who was enslaved during earlier centuries. Instead, Africans were capturing other Africans (of different tribes I think) and selling the captives to the Europeans who visited Africa. Anyway, if racism is a threat to the USA, then all racism is a threat, including the racism of Americans who happen to be Democrats, as well as the racism of Americans who happen to be African-Americans. yep, although the racial history of the US makes the races , as a demographic, economically, judicially, and politically unequal in their power and authority racism is not the monopoly of a political party or race,,, admittedly, I dont care nearly as much about racism on a personal level, as I do on the institutional level you can dislike me for whatever reason you want, race, gender, etc,,, as long as that doesnt manifest into giving me unequal right or privilege ,,,,or disrespect,,,, the guy at the store that calls me nigg@@ its his personal issue with no real impact on me the judge or police or politician who thinks nigg2s are a nuisance and presides over my case or a loved one,, or over the laws in my community, who has the authority to decide between their freedom or imprisonment more of an impact on me,,, more of what I care about excellent post Harmony! But the guy at the store who might call you that name - HE is the one with issues. Still, it should bother you. Hatred & ignorance should bother everyone. In the 60s during the Kennedy & Johnson administrations - during the days of MLK and Malcolm, the reason that so much progress was made to improve race relations is because so many were enticed to care about it. I think it is something that on an institutional level cannot be permitted at all, and I feel the same way about ALL of the EEO paramaters (age religion gender etc). It requires people to behave respectfully and hopefully the institutional model will have the effect of education gradually affecting outlooks of individuals. |
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why not also provide the NON Muslim 'attempts' and 'plots' Im gonna wager there were plenty more,,,,, leading me to continue to believe that 'islamist' terrorism isnt the primary threat people keep repeating that it is,,,,,. there is no other logical conclusion to come to. In addition to the numbers of attempts and attacks there are warnings from other nations (to us - about Islamic terror), there are other nations who have been dealing with their terrorism for decades already (who we need to listen to), and there are their "death to america" chants as a rallying cry. We have been at war in Iraq and Afghanistan. and I think technically we are still at war. Our gov't would be behavely irresponsibly if it did not monitor muslims in this country at this time. I believe it behaves irresponsibly by allowing further immigration at this time. I agree with the pig. This is not a racial issue. this is my point,, which countries are warning of such things? what is the predominate race of those countries? what is the reason that one threat is perceived as so much more substantial than other threats? dont get me wrong,, again , the numbers game dictates that with billions of muslims. there is just more opportunity for some of them to be radicalized and become a threat but we also have large numbers of christians, who have more opportunity to be radicalized, and it is perhaps a tendnecy of the religion to accept personal responsibilty or consequence upon oneself, that christians who do terrible things will do them as individuals and never equate it to their religion,, but the public is very hesitent to equate it to their religion either the issue becomes that radicalized islamicists cite their religion as a cause,,, does this make it so? does this make their illness and criminality any less individual than a christian criminal or a christian terrorist? we favor christians over muslims, so we are very quick to look at all muslims suspiciously becuase of what some muslims do,,,,,we dont do that with christians or other religions this is what I get from the piece,, and I agree with it quite honestly I think that 'tribalism' by itself is not a bad thing,, we do and should belong to different groups,, it doesnt make us better or worse, just different,, I am a female, not a male I am african american, not caucasian I am american, not british,,, and the list goes on and on,, and there is no reason that people shouldnt feel a connection to those groups ,, but no reason why they should follow to feel totally disassociated from any one elses groups but a consequence of such 'tribalism' sometimes is that we have a harder time seeing the members of our group who step outside the fold as anything but outsiders and anomolies,, but we are able to see members of other groups as a definition of the group or an insight to the group as a whole so, although in america, we have had a decrease in islamic radical plots, and an equivalent amount of non muslim(possibly christians?) plots of the 'political' and 'racial' variety,,,,,we dont speak nearly as often about the threats of racists and political extremists as we do the threat of muslims.... I recognize there is valid reason for the concern and for the caution concerning this radical element of muslims, but I just dont agree that it is the only thing to be concerned about or that the level of concern is as justified as it might be for other threats that we barely scratch the surface of,,,,, |
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it is STILL my opinion that the RACISM described is more the prevalent threat in the us than RADICAL ISLAMICISM During the last 20 years, which has killed more Americans, institutional racism or Islamic terrorism? |
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it is STILL my opinion that the RACISM described is more the prevalent threat in the us than RADICAL ISLAMICISM During the last 20 years, which has killed more Americans, institutional racism or Islamic terrorism? institutional racism poses threat to peoples livelihoods, rights, freedom,,,etc,,, its not an immediate mortal threat (unless we look into the judicial system,, but thats another topic) islamic terrorism is the catch phrase for terrorists who are islamic,, so lets question instead , how many people have been killed by 'christians' or 'atheists' or 'political' who have some radical belief,,,? if we add them up,, which I dont feel like doing, Im feeling they will outnumber the islamic deaths in america as well,,,, |
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islamic terrorism is the catch phrase for terrorists who are islamic,, so lets question instead , how many people have been killed by 'christians' or 'atheists' or 'political' who have some radical belief,,,? if we add them up,, which I dont feel like doing, Im feeling they will outnumber the islamic deaths in america as well,,,,  You are feeling? In other words, you don't know. Instead, you are just guessing. |
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Edited by
msharmony
on
Sun 04/28/13 12:19 PM
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islamic terrorism is the catch phrase for terrorists who are islamic,, so lets question instead , how many people have been killed by 'christians' or 'atheists' or 'political' who have some radical belief,,,? if we add them up,, which I dont feel like doing, Im feeling they will outnumber the islamic deaths in america as well,,,, You are feeling? In other words, you don't know. Instead, you are just guessing. no, in other words, I am at the disadvantage since one islamic radical attack took out 3000 in one incident, and to list an equivalaent amount of non muslim / racist /bigoted death would involve posting a rather long list of such incidents which I dont feel like doing,,, timothy mcveigh took out 168 people in his attack, so he wasnt as successful at the number of deaths that resulted, but that wouldnt mean he was less of a threat its a pointless debate because its so subjective, why go back only 20 years? why should I gauge my perception of threat on your or anyone elses timeline? why should I gauge it on deaths achieved as opposed to incidents plotted and/or achieved? why should anyone have to 'prove' their feeling,, yes , feelings are a guess of the totality of ones personal and individual base of knowledge and experience,,,,it doesnt make them wrong or invalid or 'false claims' noone has ALL the information about anything, so we draw conclusions from the information we do have should you feel more threatened by muslims beause they were SUCCESSFUL in one large attack, than I feel about non muslims who have had a succession of less successful plots? ,,,the 'prove it' response is getting old,,,, I dont have the time to list all the different incidents that would come up to that ONE attacks deaths,,,,, but they do factually exist |
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it is STILL my opinion that the RACISM described is more the prevalent threat in the us than RADICAL ISLAMICISM During the last 20 years, which has killed more Americans, institutional racism or Islamic terrorism? institutional racism poses threat to peoples livelihoods, rights, freedom,,,etc,,, its not an immediate mortal threat (unless we look into the judicial system,, but thats another topic) islamic terrorism is the catch phrase for terrorists who are islamic,, so lets question instead , how many people have been killed by 'christians' or 'atheists' or 'political' who have some radical belief,,,? if we add them up,, which I dont feel like doing, Im feeling they will outnumber the islamic deaths in america as well,,,, clearly vilent acts are perpetrated by all peoples, however, islam does present a clear & present danger to Americans that cannot be ignored, nor mitigated by saying "other people are also violent" their motive is to eradicate the infidel. They aren't one off crazies or deluded exhusbands. They are an army; a terrorist army, a threat, and have clearly called for our deaths. I don;t see how anyone could defend them. |
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Edited by
msharmony
on
Sun 04/28/13 12:55 PM
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it is STILL my opinion that the RACISM described is more the prevalent threat in the us than RADICAL ISLAMICISM During the last 20 years, which has killed more Americans, institutional racism or Islamic terrorism? institutional racism poses threat to peoples livelihoods, rights, freedom,,,etc,,, its not an immediate mortal threat (unless we look into the judicial system,, but thats another topic) islamic terrorism is the catch phrase for terrorists who are islamic,, so lets question instead , how many people have been killed by 'christians' or 'atheists' or 'political' who have some radical belief,,,? if we add them up,, which I dont feel like doing, Im feeling they will outnumber the islamic deaths in america as well,,,, clearly vilent acts are perpetrated by all peoples, however, islam does present a clear & present danger to Americans that cannot be ignored, nor mitigated by saying "other people are also violent" their motive is to eradicate the infidel. They aren't one off crazies or deluded exhusbands. They are an army; a terrorist army, a threat, and have clearly called for our deaths. I don;t see how anyone could defend them. I dont think its defending them to point out other threats or to discuss why their threat is presented to be on so much more a GRAND SCALE Than other very real and just as grand threats,,,, from people who dont have a foreign religion or who arent minorities in america,,,, if someone wants to kill my loved ones, do I really care whether they get their motive from a religious book ,or whether they conjure up a motive from being disenfranchised 'americans' who think someone else is threatening their ownership of america and the american dream ?,,, |
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Edited by
sweetestgirl11
on
Sun 04/28/13 01:12 PM
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why not also provide the NON Muslim 'attempts' and 'plots' Im gonna wager there were plenty more,,,,, leading me to continue to believe that 'islamist' terrorism isnt the primary threat people keep repeating that it is,,,,,. there is no other logical conclusion to come to. In addition to the numbers of attempts and attacks there are warnings from other nations (to us - about Islamic terror), there are other nations who have been dealing with their terrorism for decades already (who we need to listen to), and there are their "death to america" chants as a rallying cry. We have been at war in Iraq and Afghanistan. and I think technically we are still at war. Our gov't would be behavely irresponsibly if it did not monitor muslims in this country at this time. I believe it behaves irresponsibly by allowing further immigration at this time. I agree with the pig. This is not a racial issue. this is my point,, which countries are warning of such things? what is the predominate race of those countries? what is the reason that one threat is perceived as so much more substantial than other threats? dont get me wrong,, again , the numbers game dictates that with billions of muslims. there is just more opportunity for some of them to be radicalized and become a threat but we also have large numbers of christians, who have more opportunity to be radicalized, and it is perhaps a tendnecy of the religion to accept personal responsibilty or consequence upon oneself, that christians who do terrible things will do them as individuals and never equate it to their religion,, but the public is very hesitent to equate it to their religion either the issue becomes that radicalized islamicists cite their religion as a cause,,, does this make it so? does this make their illness and criminality any less individual than a christian criminal or a christian terrorist? we favor christians over muslims, so we are very quick to look at all muslims suspiciously becuase of what some muslims do,,,,,we dont do that with christians or other religions this is what I get from the piece,, and I agree with it quite honestly I think that 'tribalism' by itself is not a bad thing,, we do and should belong to different groups,, it doesnt make us better or worse, just different,, I am a female, not a male I am african american, not caucasian I am american, not british,,, and the list goes on and on,, and there is no reason that people shouldnt feel a connection to those groups ,, but no reason why they should follow to feel totally disassociated from any one elses groups but a consequence of such 'tribalism' sometimes is that we have a harder time seeing the members of our group who step outside the fold as anything but outsiders and anomolies,, but we are able to see members of other groups as a definition of the group or an insight to the group as a whole so, although in america, we have had a decrease in islamic radical plots, and an equivalent amount of non muslim(possibly christians?) plots of the 'political' and 'racial' variety,,,,,we dont speak nearly as often about the threats of racists and political extremists as we do the threat of muslims.... I recognize there is valid reason for the concern and for the caution concerning this radical element of muslims, but I just dont agree that it is the only thing to be concerned about or that the level of concern is as justified as it might be for other threats that we barely scratch the surface of,,,,, warnings have come from the Canadians and the Russians, French and Germans. I still don;t see it as a racial issue tho because they also perpetrate terror among their own. but were it; It is the Muslims who are perhaps racist attacking Christian peoples in a terroristic fashion and have been doing do since the the 1970s -attacking and killing random civilians simply because they are non Muslim. They show no remorse and perpetuate a system of law that existed in a less vile form during the Dark Ages. It is violent and of retribution and tyranny. In modern times they continue terror despite condemnation from all thinking peoples, including many within their own home nations. They opress and terrorize women and children in their own lands. There is no modern comparison to the gangland style tyranny and violence of radical Islam. We can stop them amd I believe we will at least here on our own lands. Any other deeds perpetrated by other peoples do not mean that the deeds of radical Islamic terrorists are any more accpetable. Irrespective of any other violence or crime, terrorism from that quarter needs to end. One way or another. It doesn't matter who else is doing what. I doubt you can find examples of other terrorists who are equal as an international and domestic threat. |
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and THAT further adds to my conclusion
to even mention that islamic radicals may not be on the grand scale that media perpetrates means I must be 'defending' the radicals amongst them (fyi, there were times when other nations warned about black men having tails too,,didnt make it any less of a racist and sensational response) and we will continue to profile , IN CASE, and we will contine to wonder 'what if' when we see a middle eastern looking person but we wont do that with white males,, of which these last two bombers were certainly a member of,,,,,along with whole list of other mass and serial 'disenfranchised' killers and governments,,, ,,,and all the tensions that help feed the 'threat' will continue as a self fulfilling prophecy meanwhile, the very REAL Threat of islamic radicasls, will continue to overshadow the very REAL threats of political radicals and racist radicals people like(anti government) disenfranchised Charles Polk, who was plotting to blow up an IRS building (wonder how many deaths would have resulted had he succeeded?) or (Anti government) disenfranchised joseph martin bailey, who was also plotting to blow up an IRS building or neo nazi joseph furrow, who shot up a jewish community center ,,, (or should shootouts feel like less a 'threat' than bombinbs,, I dont know) or neo nazi sen gillespie who firebombed an israeli temple,,, or white supremacist demetri van crocker, who plotted to set off a bomb in DC and the list goes on yet, I do not go through life profiling the white male that passes me in the street, wondering if perhaps he is disenfranchised or a supremacist who may be a 'threat' and I also dont defend the actions of such men who do,,,, ,,,go figure,,,that reality doesnt have to mean unreasonable paranoia,,, |
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I do not consider any natural born American citizen who attacks the government to be a terrorists, but rather someone who is sick of regulations and laws that the government has a bad habit of exempting themselves from. I think these people are stupid for carrying out their aggression against people who are simple federal employees instead of focusing on those they are really pissed off at. Now as far as racism goes it exists in all colors, creeds, and nationalities. I will agree with the OP in this that the lame stream media is always quick to call out the racist tea party yet dismissed the black panty party when they stood out front of the polling center in Ohio as Americans making sure there was no funny business. |
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Edited by
msharmony
on
Sun 04/28/13 02:44 PM
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I do not consider any natural born American citizen who attacks the government to be a terrorists, but rather someone who is sick of regulations and laws that the government has a bad habit of exempting themselves from. I think these people are stupid for carrying out their aggression against people who are simple federal employees instead of focusing on those they are really pissed off at. Now as far as racism goes it exists in all colors, creeds, and nationalities. I will agree with the OP in this that the lame stream media is always quick to call out the racist tea party yet dismissed the black panty party when they stood out front of the polling center in Ohio as Americans making sure there was no funny business. since the first elections with obama in 2008, I have heard very little about tea party,,,,I heard roughly as much about them as I did the black panther party,,,,who didnt send representatives to congress to represent their interests,,,,,, and as far as not considering american citizens terrorists, than Im sure non american citizens arent either, unless they are incapable of also being 'sick of regulations and laws that the government has a bad habit or exempting themselves from' bigotry comes in all forms and so does 'terrorism',, no gender, religion, or race has ownership over either bigotry or terrorism,,,or the terrorism that results from bigotry |
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I do not consider any natural born American citizen who attacks the government to be a terrorists, but rather someone who is sick of regulations and laws that the government has a bad habit of exempting themselves from. I think these people are stupid for carrying out their aggression against people who are simple federal employees instead of focusing on those they are really pissed off at. Now as far as racism goes it exists in all colors, creeds, and nationalities. I will agree with the OP in this that the lame stream media is always quick to call out the racist tea party yet dismissed the black panty party when they stood out front of the polling center in Ohio as Americans making sure there was no funny business. since the first elections with obama in 2008, I have heard very little about tea party,,,,I heard roughly as much about them as I did the black panther party,,,,who didnt send representatives to congress to represent their interests,,,,,, and as far as not considering american citizens terrorists, than Im sure non american citizens arent either, unless they are incapable of also being 'sick of regulations and laws that the government has a bad habit or exempting themselves from' bigotry comes in all forms and so does 'terrorism',, no gender, religion, or race has ownership over either bigotry or terrorism,,,or the terrorism that results from bigotry I don't pay attention to the "news" too much and I read a whole bunch of stuff from media outlets via Mingle2 so I fail to see how you "have heard very little about tea party". The black panties being at the poll site had zero to do with sending a rep to DC to rep their interests, but had everything to do with intimidation. Foreigners who move to this country (legally and illegally) who commit crimes against the government by killing civilians ARE terrorists. |
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I do not consider any natural born American citizen who attacks the government to be a terrorists, but rather someone who is sick of regulations and laws that the government has a bad habit of exempting themselves from. I think these people are stupid for carrying out their aggression against people who are simple federal employees instead of focusing on those they are really pissed off at. Now as far as racism goes it exists in all colors, creeds, and nationalities. I will agree with the OP in this that the lame stream media is always quick to call out the racist tea party yet dismissed the black panty party when they stood out front of the polling center in Ohio as Americans making sure there was no funny business. since the first elections with obama in 2008, I have heard very little about tea party,,,,I heard roughly as much about them as I did the black panther party,,,,who didnt send representatives to congress to represent their interests,,,,,, and as far as not considering american citizens terrorists, than Im sure non american citizens arent either, unless they are incapable of also being 'sick of regulations and laws that the government has a bad habit or exempting themselves from' bigotry comes in all forms and so does 'terrorism',, no gender, religion, or race has ownership over either bigotry or terrorism,,,or the terrorism that results from bigotry I don't pay attention to the "news" too much and I read a whole bunch of stuff from media outlets via Mingle2 so I fail to see how you "have heard very little about tea party". The black panties being at the poll site had zero to do with sending a rep to DC to rep their interests, but had everything to do with intimidation. Foreigners who move to this country (legally and illegally) who commit crimes against the government by killing civilians ARE terrorists. I know, their action doesnt make them terrorist,, their being foreign does,, that was my point,,, |
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I like that ter, Bored. Black Panties. So fitting. One on one, dey be cowards.
The Black Panties and Fairycan hate whitey with a passion never seen in the Klan. I don't defend Klan. I just haven't heard much hate speech from them as I have heard out of Shabitch and Fairycan. |
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I like that ter, Bored. Black Panties. So fitting. One on one, dey be cowards. The Black Panties and Fairycan hate whitey with a passion never seen in the Klan. I don't defend Klan. I just haven't heard much hate speech from them as I have heard out of Shabitch and Fairycan. I agree, the Klan do blend in better, the panthers and farrakhan tend to stick out and be more noticable,,, |
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I like that ter, Bored. Black Panties. So fitting. One on one, dey be cowards. The Black Panties and Fairycan hate whitey with a passion never seen in the Klan. I don't defend Klan. I just haven't heard much hate speech from them as I have heard out of Shabitch and Fairycan. I agree, the Klan do blend in better, the panthers and farrakhan tend to stick out and be more noticable,,, And, much more terroristic than the new Klan. |
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I like that ter, Bored. Black Panties. So fitting. One on one, dey be cowards. The Black Panties and Fairycan hate whitey with a passion never seen in the Klan. I don't defend Klan. I just haven't heard much hate speech from them as I have heard out of Shabitch and Fairycan. I agree, the Klan do blend in better, the panthers and farrakhan tend to stick out and be more noticable,,, And, much more terroristic than the new Klan. I dont know of much 'terroism' from either modern group really,,, but Im sure the internet holds information on any group we are seeking information about,,,, |
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its a pointless debate because its so subjective, why go back only 20 years? why should I gauge my perception of threat on your or anyone elses timeline? Because we are discussing what are the present dangers to the USA. Who is currently promoting terrorism? Now, if you wish to go back in time to count past acts of terrorism, then how far back is too far? How far back in time do you go until you leave the "present"? Thirty years? Forty years? Fifty years? If it is acceptable to count acts of terrorism that took place 50 years ago, then it is acceptable to count acts of racism that took place 50 years ago, and if you do the latter, then you will discover that racism was synonymous with the Democratic Party. |
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