I agree, throwing a little pocket change at people does nothing but waste everyone's time and money. It's an insult added to the injury. Why not let people have welfare and financial aid and food stamps all at the same time. Then maybe they can possibly do something with their lives.

The problem is, however, that we do more to encourage those programs than to encourage not needing them. And the people who need them the most? The ones who live in the areas with the worst schools. But when someone recommends offering them other opportunities in education, people throw a fit about that. Why? Let's not fix the schools, and keep throwing money at programs that discourage getting out of poverty, and then blame those who want to do something different. What sense does that make?

nice way to go back two decades for something to pin on him,, very well done

but as I said, people grow,,,I have grown since five years ago, let alone from who I was twenty years ago


and in any case,

nothing there states anyone is evil, or refers to president Obama ,,

in fact
with the exception of the sexual preference slur,, its just as true as 'blacks are the biggest threat to blacks'

I guess he is no more or less lovable than some who begrudge him,,,

where has anyone here opposed better educational opportunities? why are you asking that question? its another way to distract


and why assume that the position of those who support the security blanket for MILLIONS on hard times is supporting the 'promotion' of poverty

I believe that its promoting poverty to promote that the poor just be left on the streets, as if their poverty deserves punishment not just for them and their kids

support for people having food and shelter, is far from promoting poverty,,

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where has anyone here opposed better educational opportunities? why are you asking that question? its another way to distract


and why assume that the position of those who support the security blanket for MILLIONS on hard times is supporting the 'promotion' of poverty

I believe that its promoting poverty to promote that the poor just be left on the streets, as if their poverty deserves punishment not just for them and their kids

support for people having food and shelter, is far from promoting poverty,,


The reason I'm asking is because the political leaders who support welfare programs also oppose making changes to the education system such as charter schools or vouchers for private schools. I asked the question and no one answered it, so I asked because the politicians you probably vote for oppose choice in education.

Additionally, are you able to point out where I called the impoverished lazy? I didn't say that. Certainly SOME are, but I don't know how many. However, promoting welfare programs promotes laziness. Would you allow me to indefinitely camp out on your couch? Or would you eventually throw my lazy a$$ out and make me fend for myself? And which would be more compassionate? Letting me stay lazy, or making me become self sufficient?

Prior to welfare programs churches, communities, charities, and families handled welfare much more effectively and efficiently.

well, I suppose it will never end when people have never been on or would never accept welfare

they are the ones who usually have a lot of assumptions about how it works,,,

there isn't an 'indefinite' welfare, they have time caps on all the programs people most complain about

and its more like camping out in someones yard,, not on some comfortable couch,,,

the programs are necessary for TEMPORARY assistance while people get through rough times,,

the programs included work and job activity to remain eligible

it isn't a 'free ride',, its substanance until one is able to substain themselves in RETURN for their time and efforts towards that goal


its already been explained all the changes that have happened since the time that churches and charities could handle poverty

key word = temporary...

exactly

to get rid of the temporary assistance options is not something to support,,,

The problem with this "temporary" assistance is that I can point out examples of people who have been on it for decades.

I doubt it,,,unless, as I said it is a disability situation or they are committing FRAUD,, which is about as much the fault of assistance as robbery is the fault of banks

You doubting it doesn't make it untrue. It also indicates that they are not the only ones who have been gaming the system.

The problem is how to get a useful education and money. Ok so once you decide on a useful way to use your financial aid money ($5,500 a year or so) you must be in school full time and get good grades, if you don't have time to study outside of class and get enough sleep you will surely fail. So, how can someone be expected to come up with the rest of the money to be equal to living off minimum wage? I've tried it and it doesn't work...but I lost my health while trying from lack of sleep. If they had given me welfare and food stamps also I would have made it. That's my experience...anyone with no experience or who claims to be superhuman with no sleep ..that's bs.

Yet, you don't consider that maybe government involvement in these things is the problem instead of the solution.

next you tell me that the Weasel has changed his Spot?

In my experience government help as it is doesn't help. Even with the maximum financial aid for full time adult student the government assumes you will get about $7000 support from parents. I never could understand this from talking to the financial aid counselors, they just tell me that I was receiving the max limit and to be happy with that. I know lot's of students used to sell drugs or other illegal acts to fund their education, that's the only way they could make it they told me. And many were practically homeless, sleeping on someone's couch...but they weren't lazy.

Selling drugs is not the only way to " make it" Estelle. You make it sound like Uncle Sam is forcing college kids into crime. Selling drugs is a choice.. always has been. There are perfectly honest ways to make money while WORKING your way thru college. As millions have done before.
Many companies hire college kids as interns and work around THIER schedule. The college job boards are full of opportunities and many colleges have job placement departments. Many service companies do this as well. ALL knowing that the kid is working his / her way thru school.

And many parents had to take out and PAY parent plus loans to get our kids thru college.

The key word here is WORK.. you have to work your way thru college.

College is not a free ride Estelle. No one ever claimed it was. Neither did Uncle Sam.

What you want is the freedom of America with the socialist ways of a communist country... sorry.. its one or the other.

How did this thread go from its original topic to a discussion about college?

On campus jobs pay less than minimum wage.
No one has addressed the insanity of being able to come up with the $7000 that financial aid assumes your parents will provide even for adult students.
Also, most full time students that study something useful are not taking easy classes, so the out of class work takes up most of the time in a day and weekend.
College counselors recommend not working while in difficult educational programs...such as nursing...the ones that will pay well and be more useful in the real world.
I would never sell drugs or take drugs, I'm not even saying people are forced to, and I guess those who do it are at least partly doing it to support their own habit so I will let that one go.
All I'm saying is that if education is the answer to end poverty it needs to be better funded by the government. Widespread poverty is a government issue not an individual one.
If students are expected to pay full rent and be full time students the government should fund this. If students don't get good grades they are disqualified so they can't just sit around and get a free ride...you guys love that saying and it's not very helpful.

You nailed down the problem, and then you advocate for the problem. Government "help" doesn't help! That's what I've been saying this whole time, except that I've also been saying government "help" actually exacerbates the problem. You admit that the government doesn't help, so why should we want more of what is clearly not working?

Do you know what you're talking about? I have been through the system and I know where it fails, $5,730 is not enough to cover rent. Financial aid should be around $10,00-12,000. I know from experience that a few thousand dollars is the difference between pass or fail. So, I say increase you say decrease. You target poor people as the problem I target lack of resources available to them. You have no solution, but to let them go to hell for being poor. I have a solution that will get them on equal footing to prepare for the real world. And all it takes is 4 years and enough to survive and get a useful education.