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| Topic: Stand your ground Law should it be changed or reformed? | |
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Following to prevent a punk from robbing is not stalking...neighborhood watch are generally taught to do that, the 911 dispatcher had no right to tell him to stop and not watch what he was pledged to do....that is what neighborhood watch is for....watching. Trevor had no right to attack an innocent man who was serving and protecting his neighborhood. Come try that ship in mine...then you will understand. Cops do not protect anything but big business and the government, I have silent alarms on everything I value, and there is always a gun in my vehicle so you will be presumed armed and a direct threat to my life if you are in it....you are arguing with the wrong guy on this one. Mess with my stuff and you will reap the consequences...I do not aim to maim. I live in America, Florida and we are allowed to protect ourselves here, we do not even have to drag your body in our home anymore....Thank you NRA!! Long Live Stand Your Ground! I make no apology for being a free American where we can protect our home and property from trash that want to steal and harm us. If you do not like that put a I HAVE NO GUNS sign on your front door and see what happens!
PS:: I am a hunter not a gun nut but have learned the hard way guns have a second purpose in a FREE Country! |
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Edited by
msharmony
on
Thu 02/19/15 09:43 PM
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watching is not pursuing with a weapon and engaging, when one is not in the commission of a crime
its stalking,,,period. whatever ones reason to follow in the car, and then on foot its provocation and intimidation and the person standing their ground has every reason at some point to stop running if the pursuer wont stop pursuing,, neighborhood watch WATCHES< it does not engage, no crime had been committed, thinking its POSSIBLE one might is not reason to harass and engage,,, you let the cops handle it,, if there is anything to handle at no time did Zimmerman even claim to state acting in the capacity of a neighborhood watchmen, even police have to identify themselves ,,but no, his intent seemed more to intimidate and flex, and when his intended victim fought back and got the better of him he had the cowards way of pulling a trigger to save his own behind trey wasn't messing with his stuff, trey wasn't in his car,, trey tried his best to avoid him there was no property on trey but his candy and drink,, killing because of what you think someone MAY do(that's why this law is so scary for black people whose men and teens are so often presumed to be criminal on sight) is a cowards excuse, the real criminal, the murderer hiding behind the law having a gun is not the issue feeling a right to take life indiscriminately with a gun is,,, |
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watching is not pursuing with a weapon and engaging, when one is not in the commission of a crime its stalking,,,period. whatever ones reason to follow in the car, and then on foot its provocation and intimidation and the person standing their ground has every reason at some point to stop running if the pursuer wont stop pursuing,, neighborhood watch WATCHES< it does not engage, no crime had been committed, thinking its POSSIBLE one might is not reason to harass and engage,,, you let the cops handle it,, if there is anything to handle at no time did Zimmerman even claim to state acting in the capacity of a neighborhood watchmen, even police have to identify themselves ,,but no, his intent seemed more to intimidate and flex, and when his intended victim fought back and got the better of him he had the cowards way of pulling a trigger to save his own behind trey wasn't messing with his stuff, trey wasn't in his car,, trey tried his best to avoid him there was no property on trey but his candy and drink,, killing because of what you think someone MAY do(that's why this law is so scary for black people whose men and teens are so often presumed to be criminal on sight) is a cowards excuse, the real criminal, the murderer hiding behind the law having a gun is not the issue feeling a right to take life indiscriminately with a gun is,,, This law is so scary to the demographic it benefits most often? |
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watching is not pursuing with a weapon and engaging, when one is not in the commission of a crime its stalking,,,period. whatever ones reason to follow in the car, and then on foot its provocation and intimidation and the person standing their ground has every reason at some point to stop running if the pursuer wont stop pursuing,, neighborhood watch WATCHES< it does not engage, no crime had been committed, thinking its POSSIBLE one might is not reason to harass and engage,,, you let the cops handle it,, if there is anything to handle at no time did Zimmerman even claim to state acting in the capacity of a neighborhood watchmen, even police have to identify themselves ,,but no, his intent seemed more to intimidate and flex, and when his intended victim fought back and got the better of him he had the cowards way of pulling a trigger to save his own behind trey wasn't messing with his stuff, trey wasn't in his car,, trey tried his best to avoid him there was no property on trey but his candy and drink,, killing because of what you think someone MAY do(that's why this law is so scary for black people whose men and teens are so often presumed to be criminal on sight) is a cowards excuse, the real criminal, the murderer hiding behind the law having a gun is not the issue feeling a right to take life indiscriminately with a gun is,,, This law is so scary to the demographic it benefits most often? how does it benefit them? |
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watching is not pursuing with a weapon and engaging, when one is not in the commission of a crime its stalking,,,period. whatever ones reason to follow in the car, and then on foot its provocation and intimidation and the person standing their ground has every reason at some point to stop running if the pursuer wont stop pursuing,, neighborhood watch WATCHES< it does not engage, no crime had been committed, thinking its POSSIBLE one might is not reason to harass and engage,,, you let the cops handle it,, if there is anything to handle at no time did Zimmerman even claim to state acting in the capacity of a neighborhood watchmen, even police have to identify themselves ,,but no, his intent seemed more to intimidate and flex, and when his intended victim fought back and got the better of him he had the cowards way of pulling a trigger to save his own behind trey wasn't messing with his stuff, trey wasn't in his car,, trey tried his best to avoid him there was no property on trey but his candy and drink,, killing because of what you think someone MAY do(that's why this law is so scary for black people whose men and teens are so often presumed to be criminal on sight) is a cowards excuse, the real criminal, the murderer hiding behind the law having a gun is not the issue feeling a right to take life indiscriminately with a gun is,,, This law is so scary to the demographic it benefits most often? how does it benefit them? Because they are the demographic most likely to use Stand Your Ground than any other. I'm sorry that facts are inconvenient to your point of view. |
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watching is not pursuing with a weapon and engaging, when one is not in the commission of a crime its stalking,,,period. whatever ones reason to follow in the car, and then on foot its provocation and intimidation and the person standing their ground has every reason at some point to stop running if the pursuer wont stop pursuing,, neighborhood watch WATCHES< it does not engage, no crime had been committed, thinking its POSSIBLE one might is not reason to harass and engage,,, you let the cops handle it,, if there is anything to handle at no time did Zimmerman even claim to state acting in the capacity of a neighborhood watchmen, even police have to identify themselves ,,but no, his intent seemed more to intimidate and flex, and when his intended victim fought back and got the better of him he had the cowards way of pulling a trigger to save his own behind trey wasn't messing with his stuff, trey wasn't in his car,, trey tried his best to avoid him there was no property on trey but his candy and drink,, killing because of what you think someone MAY do(that's why this law is so scary for black people whose men and teens are so often presumed to be criminal on sight) is a cowards excuse, the real criminal, the murderer hiding behind the law having a gun is not the issue feeling a right to take life indiscriminately with a gun is,,, This law is so scary to the demographic it benefits most often? how does it benefit them? Because they are the demographic most likely to use Stand Your Ground than any other. I'm sorry that facts are inconvenient to your point of view. Im sorry you don't research the talking point senator cruz has had reiterated along the rights grapevine,,, no numbers , just a statement huh? here is why the information above is irrelevant. That information considers ALL crime so , when we consider blacks killing all races and that they mostly kill blacks,, they use the defense to succesffuly get off similary, when we consider whites killing all races and that they mostly kill whites , they used the defense to successfully get off,, but less often(slightly) ,,now here is where the RELEVANT part comes in from the standpoint of being a VICTIM,, taking black lives is justified MUCH MORE OFTEN than taking white lives so those white on white crimes are less often justified, considering there is a white life taken and whites are mostly killing whites and those black on black crimes are more often justified, considering there is a black life taken and blacks mostly kill blacks so from the standpoint of VICTIMS there is no contest when it comes to how often this law justifies taking black lives, compared to white lives,,, ,,,,,, |
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watching is not pursuing with a weapon and engaging, when one is not in the commission of a crime its stalking,,,period. whatever ones reason to follow in the car, and then on foot its provocation and intimidation and the person standing their ground has every reason at some point to stop running if the pursuer wont stop pursuing,, neighborhood watch WATCHES< it does not engage, no crime had been committed, thinking its POSSIBLE one might is not reason to harass and engage,,, you let the cops handle it,, if there is anything to handle at no time did Zimmerman even claim to state acting in the capacity of a neighborhood watchmen, even police have to identify themselves ,,but no, his intent seemed more to intimidate and flex, and when his intended victim fought back and got the better of him he had the cowards way of pulling a trigger to save his own behind trey wasn't messing with his stuff, trey wasn't in his car,, trey tried his best to avoid him there was no property on trey but his candy and drink,, killing because of what you think someone MAY do(that's why this law is so scary for black people whose men and teens are so often presumed to be criminal on sight) is a cowards excuse, the real criminal, the murderer hiding behind the law having a gun is not the issue feeling a right to take life indiscriminately with a gun is,,, This law is so scary to the demographic it benefits most often? how does it benefit them? Because they are the demographic most likely to use Stand Your Ground than any other. I'm sorry that facts are inconvenient to your point of view. Im sorry you don't research the talking point senator cruz has had reiterated along the rights grapevine,,, no numbers , just a statement huh? here is why the information above is irrelevant. That information considers ALL crime so , when we consider blacks killing all races and that they mostly kill blacks,, they use the defense to succesffuly get off similary, when we consider whites killing all races and that they mostly kill whites , they used the defense to successfully get off,, but less often(slightly) ,,now here is where the RELEVANT part comes in from the standpoint of being a VICTIM,, taking black lives is justified MUCH MORE OFTEN than taking white lives so those white on white crimes are less often justified, considering there is a white life taken and whites are mostly killing whites and those black on black crimes are more often justified, considering there is a black life taken and blacks mostly kill blacks so from the standpoint of VICTIMS there is no contest when it comes to how often this law justifies taking black lives, compared to white lives,,, ,,,,,, So any race against that same race, which is the way most crime works, can't be considered? A black person attacks a black person. The victim acts in self defense, and you don't like the law that allows the law abiding black person to live? You have a twisted view of things. |
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Edited by
msharmony
on
Thu 02/19/15 10:54 PM
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I didn't say they cant be considered
I said from the standpoint of black lives mattering stand your ground doesn't benefit black victims the only 'benefit' it hss to blacks is the fact that they mostly kill other blacks and the law doesn't value black lives when they are TAKEN taking that black life will be justified more often, whether the killer is black or white than taking that white life will be |
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I didn't say they cant be considered I said from the standpoint of black lives mattering stand your ground doesn't benefit black victims the only 'benefit' it hss to blacks is the fact that they mostly kill other blacks and the law doesn't value black lives when they are TAKEN taking that black life will be justified more often, whether the killer is black or white than taking that white life will be Black would-be victims are victimized less because of Stand Your Ground. If that means black perpetrators are taken out more often, I'm ok with that. I'm ok with perpetrators of any race taken out by the law abiding of any race. I'm sorry that you don't want the inherent right to self defense that benefits black Floridians more than any other demographic. Denying that fact doesn't make your false narrative true. |
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I didn't say they cant be considered I said from the standpoint of black lives mattering stand your ground doesn't benefit black victims the only 'benefit' it hss to blacks is the fact that they mostly kill other blacks and the law doesn't value black lives when they are TAKEN taking that black life will be justified more often, whether the killer is black or white than taking that white life will be Black would-be victims are victimized less because of Stand Your Ground. If that means black perpetrators are taken out more often, I'm ok with that. I'm ok with perpetrators of any race taken out by the law abiding of any race. I'm sorry that you don't want the inherent right to self defense that benefits black Floridians more than any other demographic. Denying that fact doesn't make your false narrative true. yet when they are victimized they can much more often not get justice because 'stand your ground' will justify their killer,,,and Im NOT alright with that I have given no false narrative. This isn't about the right to self defense, this is about the right to intimidate and play fortune teller about who might be a criminal and worthy of death,,, such a right is for cowards, and the law is behind them,, and Im NOT alright with that either, |
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Stand your ground is a terrible law. There are other ways the law can protect people, like banning guns.
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Edited by
msharmony
on
Fri 02/20/15 06:10 AM
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yes, any law that basically uses something as intangible as 'fear' to justify taking a life is poorly written.
To not promote deescalation, and support confrontation instead, is a bad idea. Because if one ends up dead,, its all based on the others word of what happened. Particularly when one has a gun,,,they have a built in defense of claiming the other went for it or 'could have' went for it and forced their hand. its an easy way for an old fashioned fist fight or push and pull confrontation to turn into a justified homicidal one. i wouldnt go so far as banning guns though. But like slaves, I wouldnt mind an amendment on the idea that everyone has the 'right' to one. We should be much more choosy about who receives them,, and those carrying them without a license should face strict consequences. |
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Stand your ground is a terrible law. There are other ways the law can protect people, like banning guns. So in other words, ignore the Constitution? How well is a ban on guns working in Europe? Let's look at the fact that places in the United States that have the least restrictive gun laws have the least gun violence. How does banning guns keep them out of criminals' hands? We could also solve the drug problem by banning drugs. Oh, wait. We did that. Hmmm. Well, certainly banning murder means no one can do it. Really? That doesn't work either? Just because you don't like all of your Constitutional rights and don't choose to exercise all of them doesn't mean you can take them away from the rest of us. However, because of your irrational fear of firearms, I expect that you will not call the police if you are a victim of violent crime, and out of respect for your view, I won't use my guns to protect you. Why do you suppose places with "No Weapons Allowed" signs are the targets of shootings? Yet, police stations, gun shows, and ranges don't get shot up. How does anyone get out of those places alive if banning guns is the answer? |
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I didn't say they cant be considered I said from the standpoint of black lives mattering stand your ground doesn't benefit black victims the only 'benefit' it hss to blacks is the fact that they mostly kill other blacks and the law doesn't value black lives when they are TAKEN taking that black life will be justified more often, whether the killer is black or white than taking that white life will be Black would-be victims are victimized less because of Stand Your Ground. If that means black perpetrators are taken out more often, I'm ok with that. I'm ok with perpetrators of any race taken out by the law abiding of any race. I'm sorry that you don't want the inherent right to self defense that benefits black Floridians more than any other demographic. Denying that fact doesn't make your false narrative true. yet when they are victimized they can much more often not get justice because 'stand your ground' will justify their killer,,,and Im NOT alright with that I have given no false narrative. This isn't about the right to self defense, this is about the right to intimidate and play fortune teller about who might be a criminal and worthy of death,,, such a right is for cowards, and the law is behind them,, and Im NOT alright with that either, Your blatant disregard for the facts because they don't fit your narrative has removed any credibility you may have had. Because of your insistence on altering facts to fit your opinion, you have proven yourself incapable of reasonable debate. |
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Following to prevent a punk from robbing is not stalking...neighborhood watch are generally taught to do that, the 911 dispatcher had no right to tell him to stop and not watch what he was pledged to do....that is what neighborhood watch is for....watching. Trevor had no right to attack an innocent man who was serving and protecting his neighborhood. Come try that ship in mine...then you will understand. Cops do not protect anything but big business and the government, I have silent alarms on everything I value, and there is always a gun in my vehicle so you will be presumed armed and a direct threat to my life if you are in it....you are arguing with the wrong guy on this one. Mess with my stuff and you will reap the consequences...I do not aim to maim. I live in America, Florida and we are allowed to protect ourselves here, we do not even have to drag your body in our home anymore....Thank you NRA!! Long Live Stand Your Ground! I make no apology for being a free American where we can protect our home and property from trash that want to steal and harm us. If you do not like that put a I HAVE NO GUNS sign on your front door and see what happens! PS:: I am a hunter not a gun nut but have learned the hard way guns have a second purpose in a FREE Country! |
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Edited by
Leigh2154
on
Fri 02/20/15 09:21 AM
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Thread Title... "Stand your ground Law should it be changed or reformed?" Tell me what you think went the wrong with Trayvon Martin case. Trayvon Martin's death was a tragedy, that is a fact....George Zimmerman's trial was a travesty, another fact...BUT, the question asked in the thread title is "should Stand Your Ground laws be changed or reformed?"... Leaving the Zimmerman trial out of it, I feel this way...Stand Your Ground laws are based on the "Castle Doctrine" which originated in English common law...Castle Doctrine is about self defense...It basically means an individual's home is his or her castle and within those confines men and women have NO obligation to retreat from danger and may use deadly force to defend themselves and their families...IMO, this is common sense and fair...Many states have a version of Castle Doctrine based law on the books...Without stand down laws, innocent people would be forced to stop and assess which could cost them their life...It doesn't matter how the law is constructed, the line between self defense and murder/manslaughter will always be obscure and it will often be ruled differently in criminal and civil cases...Even so, I think it is ALWAYS better to err on the side of the victim...Stand Your Ground laws are not designed to encourage people to "shoot first, think later"...They are designed to give the benefit of doubt to the victim... |
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The real question is, if Trayvon martin had on a white hoodie would things have gone differently?
This is why stand your ground is a terrible law. Get rid of class and race warfare in the streets, then we will give you back your guns. Like children who misbehave.. |
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Edited by
Estelle79
on
Fri 02/20/15 09:02 AM
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Edited by
MadDog1974
on
Fri 02/20/15 09:23 AM
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The real question is, if Trayvon martin had on a white hoodie would things have gone differently? This is why stand your ground is a terrible law. Get rid of class and race warfare in the streets, then we will give you back your guns. Like children who misbehave.. No, this is why you should avoid blind speculation and jumping to conclusions. The color of his clothes and the color of his skin are not, according to any evidence, why Trayvon Martin is dead. For you to insinuate that is based on nothing more than a false narrative displays your apparently natural aversion to the truth. Once again, let's adjust facts to fit irrational opinions rather than adjust opinions when facts show that maybe what I believe isn't true. The more you ignore facts because they don't coincide with your opinion, the less credibility you have, which isn't much at this point. 
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The fact is race and class war exists in America. I don't know if this or that case is due to this..don't want to argue about what we will never know. The fact remains that when you give weapons to naughty children they will hurt each other whenever they misbehave.
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