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| Topic: Stand your ground Law should it be changed or reformed? | |
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Yet, you don't consider that maybe government involvement in these things is the problem instead of the solution. In my experience government help as it is doesn't help. Even with the maximum financial aid for full time adult student the government assumes you will get about $7000 support from parents. I never could understand this from talking to the financial aid counselors, they just tell me that I was receiving the max limit and to be happy with that. I know lot's of students used to sell drugs or other illegal acts to fund their education, that's the only way they could make it they told me. And many were practically homeless, sleeping on someone's couch...but they weren't lazy. You nailed down the problem, and then you advocate for the problem. Government "help" doesn't help! That's what I've been saying this whole time, except that I've also been saying government "help" actually exacerbates the problem. You admit that the government doesn't help, so why should we want more of what is clearly not working? Do you know what you're talking about? I have been through the system and I know where it fails, $5,730 is not enough to cover rent. Financial aid should be around $10,00-12,000. I know from experience that a few thousand dollars is the difference between pass or fail. So, I say increase you say decrease. You target poor people as the problem I target lack of resources available to them. You have no solution, but to let them go to hell for being poor. I have a solution that will get them on equal footing to prepare for the real world. And all it takes is 4 years and enough to survive and get a useful education. Do you know what you're talking about? Throwing more money at the same problem just makes the problem more expensive. You're making no sense, and even contradicting yourself. How did anything ever accomplish anything before the government took over? A lot more effectively and efficiently. That's how. You're damn right I'm advocating for the government not only spending less, but spending NOTHING on most of what they have their hands in. Government involvement exacerbates the problem. You even admitted it, then advocate for more MORE government intervention. Doing more of the same yields more of the same. The fact that you buy the typical left wing line indicates to me that perhaps you are not educated, but indoctrinated. You seem to believe that schooling and education are the same thing, when in reality, they are very different. Wise up and think for yourself. |
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Yet, you don't consider that maybe government involvement in these things is the problem instead of the solution. In my experience government help as it is doesn't help. Even with the maximum financial aid for full time adult student the government assumes you will get about $7000 support from parents. I never could understand this from talking to the financial aid counselors, they just tell me that I was receiving the max limit and to be happy with that. I know lot's of students used to sell drugs or other illegal acts to fund their education, that's the only way they could make it they told me. And many were practically homeless, sleeping on someone's couch...but they weren't lazy. You nailed down the problem, and then you advocate for the problem. Government "help" doesn't help! That's what I've been saying this whole time, except that I've also been saying government "help" actually exacerbates the problem. You admit that the government doesn't help, so why should we want more of what is clearly not working? Do you know what you're talking about? I have been through the system and I know where it fails, $5,730 is not enough to cover rent. Financial aid should be around $10,00-12,000. I know from experience that a few thousand dollars is the difference between pass or fail. So, I say increase you say decrease. You target poor people as the problem I target lack of resources available to them. You have no solution, but to let them go to hell for being poor. I have a solution that will get them on equal footing to prepare for the real world. And all it takes is 4 years and enough to survive and get a useful education. Do you know what you're talking about? Throwing more money at the same problem just makes the problem more expensive. You're making no sense, and even contradicting yourself. How did anything ever accomplish anything before the government took over? A lot more effectively and efficiently. That's how. You're damn right I'm advocating for the government not only spending less, but spending NOTHING on most of what they have their hands in. Government involvement exacerbates the problem. You even admitted it, then advocate for more MORE government intervention. Doing more of the same yields more of the same. The fact that you buy the typical left wing line indicates to me that perhaps you are not educated, but indoctrinated. You seem to believe that schooling and education are the same thing, when in reality, they are very different. Wise up and think for yourself. I think that a good education prepares young people to go into a professional field. I'm not a liberal...I'm more like an Asian/Indian person when it comes to education...they go for medical, legal, engineering degrees. I think the Indians/Asians got it right..the liberals are out of touch, so are the conservatives. This is just a problem about getting the numbers right so poor students can afford to get an education. I'm not dumb, lazy, greedy I have good credit and never took out a loan, because I live within my means. I relied on financial aid and part time jobs and it failed me by a few thousand dollars and couldn't get enough sleep or study time..couldn't even get an associate degree from a community college during 3 years..but I plan to go back and finish soon I still got 6 classes left. I see no point in getting a loan for a 2 year degree, it won't get me a better paying job. |
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On campus jobs pay less than minimum wage. No one has addressed the insanity of being able to come up with the $7000 that financial aid assumes your parents will provide even for adult students. Also, most full time students that study something useful are not taking easy classes, so the out of class work takes up most of the time in a day and weekend. College counselors recommend not working while in difficult educational programs...such as nursing...the ones that will pay well and be more useful in the real world. I would never sell drugs or take drugs, I'm not even saying people are forced to, and I guess those who do it are at least partly doing it to support their own habit so I will let that one go. All I'm saying is that if education is the answer to end poverty it needs to be better funded by the government. Widespread poverty is a government issue not an individual one. If students are expected to pay full rent and be full time students the government should fund this. If students don't get good grades they are disqualified so they can't just sit around and get a free ride...you guys love that saying and it's not very helpful. Who's talking about on campus jobs, Estelle?...there is a world outside the main college gates. The government should pay the RENT AND THE COLLEGE EDUCATION?.. THATS A FREE RIDE Estelle.. on the backs of the tax payer.... And you have college debt... you and millions of others. So what? welcome to reality. I, me, me mine... that's you Estelle. |
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Yet, you don't consider that maybe government involvement in these things is the problem instead of the solution. In my experience government help as it is doesn't help. Even with the maximum financial aid for full time adult student the government assumes you will get about $7000 support from parents. I never could understand this from talking to the financial aid counselors, they just tell me that I was receiving the max limit and to be happy with that. I know lot's of students used to sell drugs or other illegal acts to fund their education, that's the only way they could make it they told me. And many were practically homeless, sleeping on someone's couch...but they weren't lazy. You nailed down the problem, and then you advocate for the problem. Government "help" doesn't help! That's what I've been saying this whole time, except that I've also been saying government "help" actually exacerbates the problem. You admit that the government doesn't help, so why should we want more of what is clearly not working? Do you know what you're talking about? I have been through the system and I know where it fails, $5,730 is not enough to cover rent. Financial aid should be around $10,00-12,000. I know from experience that a few thousand dollars is the difference between pass or fail. So, I say increase you say decrease. You target poor people as the problem I target lack of resources available to them. You have no solution, but to let them go to hell for being poor. I have a solution that will get them on equal footing to prepare for the real world. And all it takes is 4 years and enough to survive and get a useful education. Do you know what you're talking about? Throwing more money at the same problem just makes the problem more expensive. You're making no sense, and even contradicting yourself. How did anything ever accomplish anything before the government took over? A lot more effectively and efficiently. That's how. You're damn right I'm advocating for the government not only spending less, but spending NOTHING on most of what they have their hands in. Government involvement exacerbates the problem. You even admitted it, then advocate for more MORE government intervention. Doing more of the same yields more of the same. The fact that you buy the typical left wing line indicates to me that perhaps you are not educated, but indoctrinated. You seem to believe that schooling and education are the same thing, when in reality, they are very different. Wise up and think for yourself. I think that a good education prepares young people to go into a professional field. I'm not a liberal...I'm more like an Asian/Indian person when it comes to education...they go for medical, legal, engineering degrees. I think the Indians/Asians got it right..the liberals are out of touch, so are the conservatives. This is just a problem about getting the numbers right so poor students can afford to get an education. I'm not dumb, lazy, greedy I have good credit and never took out a loan, because I live within my means. I relied on financial aid and part time jobs and it failed me by a few thousand dollars and couldn't get enough sleep or study time..couldn't even get an associate degree from a community college during 3 years..but I plan to go back and finish soon I still got 6 classes left. I see no point in getting a loan for a 2 year degree, it won't get me a better paying job. You're making the mistake of assuming that someone who goes to school is educated. Often, getting a degree means you're indoctrinated. Again, your advocacy for more money into the same system shows that you lack critical thinking skills. You may not be a liberal, but on this, you definitely are. Spend more, but don't change the system itself. That has failed for decades. It gets worse, so let's spend more. That didn't work? Spend more. But if anyone dares to look at the truth and see that maybe the problem isn't money, but the system itself, that person is an idiot. Really? You want to keep doing the exact same thing that isn't working. And I'm an idiot? Whatever. You may have been to school, but you certainly didn't learn how to solve problems. |
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Edited by
Estelle79
on
Thu 02/19/15 08:35 AM
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Yet, you don't consider that maybe government involvement in these things is the problem instead of the solution. In my experience government help as it is doesn't help. Even with the maximum financial aid for full time adult student the government assumes you will get about $7000 support from parents. I never could understand this from talking to the financial aid counselors, they just tell me that I was receiving the max limit and to be happy with that. I know lot's of students used to sell drugs or other illegal acts to fund their education, that's the only way they could make it they told me. And many were practically homeless, sleeping on someone's couch...but they weren't lazy. You nailed down the problem, and then you advocate for the problem. Government "help" doesn't help! That's what I've been saying this whole time, except that I've also been saying government "help" actually exacerbates the problem. You admit that the government doesn't help, so why should we want more of what is clearly not working? Do you know what you're talking about? I have been through the system and I know where it fails, $5,730 is not enough to cover rent. Financial aid should be around $10,00-12,000. I know from experience that a few thousand dollars is the difference between pass or fail. So, I say increase you say decrease. You target poor people as the problem I target lack of resources available to them. You have no solution, but to let them go to hell for being poor. I have a solution that will get them on equal footing to prepare for the real world. And all it takes is 4 years and enough to survive and get a useful education. Do you know what you're talking about? Throwing more money at the same problem just makes the problem more expensive. You're making no sense, and even contradicting yourself. How did anything ever accomplish anything before the government took over? A lot more effectively and efficiently. That's how. You're damn right I'm advocating for the government not only spending less, but spending NOTHING on most of what they have their hands in. Government involvement exacerbates the problem. You even admitted it, then advocate for more MORE government intervention. Doing more of the same yields more of the same. The fact that you buy the typical left wing line indicates to me that perhaps you are not educated, but indoctrinated. You seem to believe that schooling and education are the same thing, when in reality, they are very different. Wise up and think for yourself. I think that a good education prepares young people to go into a professional field. I'm not a liberal...I'm more like an Asian/Indian person when it comes to education...they go for medical, legal, engineering degrees. I think the Indians/Asians got it right..the liberals are out of touch, so are the conservatives. This is just a problem about getting the numbers right so poor students can afford to get an education. I'm not dumb, lazy, greedy I have good credit and never took out a loan, because I live within my means. I relied on financial aid and part time jobs and it failed me by a few thousand dollars and couldn't get enough sleep or study time..couldn't even get an associate degree from a community college during 3 years..but I plan to go back and finish soon I still got 6 classes left. I see no point in getting a loan for a 2 year degree, it won't get me a better paying job. You're making the mistake of assuming that someone who goes to school is educated. Often, getting a degree means you're indoctrinated. Again, your advocacy for more money into the same system shows that you lack critical thinking skills. You may not be a liberal, but on this, you definitely are. Spend more, but don't change the system itself. That has failed for decades. It gets worse, so let's spend more. That didn't work? Spend more. But if anyone dares to look at the truth and see that maybe the problem isn't money, but the system itself, that person is an idiot. Really? You want to keep doing the exact same thing that isn't working. And I'm an idiot? Whatever. You may have been to school, but you certainly didn't learn how to solve problems. You lack respect skills? I have demonstrated that the problem is exactly money. What's wrong with the poor if not money? Use your logic. |
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Yet, you don't consider that maybe government involvement in these things is the problem instead of the solution. In my experience government help as it is doesn't help. Even with the maximum financial aid for full time adult student the government assumes you will get about $7000 support from parents. I never could understand this from talking to the financial aid counselors, they just tell me that I was receiving the max limit and to be happy with that. I know lot's of students used to sell drugs or other illegal acts to fund their education, that's the only way they could make it they told me. And many were practically homeless, sleeping on someone's couch...but they weren't lazy. You nailed down the problem, and then you advocate for the problem. Government "help" doesn't help! That's what I've been saying this whole time, except that I've also been saying government "help" actually exacerbates the problem. You admit that the government doesn't help, so why should we want more of what is clearly not working? Do you know what you're talking about? I have been through the system and I know where it fails, $5,730 is not enough to cover rent. Financial aid should be around $10,00-12,000. I know from experience that a few thousand dollars is the difference between pass or fail. So, I say increase you say decrease. You target poor people as the problem I target lack of resources available to them. You have no solution, but to let them go to hell for being poor. I have a solution that will get them on equal footing to prepare for the real world. And all it takes is 4 years and enough to survive and get a useful education. Do you know what you're talking about? Throwing more money at the same problem just makes the problem more expensive. You're making no sense, and even contradicting yourself. How did anything ever accomplish anything before the government took over? A lot more effectively and efficiently. That's how. You're damn right I'm advocating for the government not only spending less, but spending NOTHING on most of what they have their hands in. Government involvement exacerbates the problem. You even admitted it, then advocate for more MORE government intervention. Doing more of the same yields more of the same. The fact that you buy the typical left wing line indicates to me that perhaps you are not educated, but indoctrinated. You seem to believe that schooling and education are the same thing, when in reality, they are very different. Wise up and think for yourself. I think that a good education prepares young people to go into a professional field. I'm not a liberal...I'm more like an Asian/Indian person when it comes to education...they go for medical, legal, engineering degrees. I think the Indians/Asians got it right..the liberals are out of touch, so are the conservatives. This is just a problem about getting the numbers right so poor students can afford to get an education. I'm not dumb, lazy, greedy I have good credit and never took out a loan, because I live within my means. I relied on financial aid and part time jobs and it failed me by a few thousand dollars and couldn't get enough sleep or study time..couldn't even get an associate degree from a community college during 3 years..but I plan to go back and finish soon I still got 6 classes left. I see no point in getting a loan for a 2 year degree, it won't get me a better paying job. You're making the mistake of assuming that someone who goes to school is educated. Often, getting a degree means you're indoctrinated. Again, your advocacy for more money into the same system shows that you lack critical thinking skills. You may not be a liberal, but on this, you definitely are. Spend more, but don't change the system itself. That has failed for decades. It gets worse, so let's spend more. That didn't work? Spend more. But if anyone dares to look at the truth and see that maybe the problem isn't money, but the system itself, that person is an idiot. Really? You want to keep doing the exact same thing that isn't working. And I'm an idiot? Whatever. You may have been to school, but you certainly didn't learn how to solve problems. You lack respect skills? I have demonstrated that the problem is exactly money. What's wrong with the poor if not money? Use your logic. Is sacrificing common sense a prerequisite for admission into college? Seriously. You said government help doesn't help, then you said let's spend more money on the exact same system, even though we've been spending more money. Why are you against changing the system? More money into a failed system doesn't fix anything. Give an alcoholic more money so he can get into rehab. But he uses the money for more alcohol. So give him more money so he can afford rehab. Again, he spends it on alcohol. At what point do you realize that maybe money isn't the answer? In your convoluted world, apparently never! |
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Yet, you don't consider that maybe government involvement in these things is the problem instead of the solution. In my experience government help as it is doesn't help. Even with the maximum financial aid for full time adult student the government assumes you will get about $7000 support from parents. I never could understand this from talking to the financial aid counselors, they just tell me that I was receiving the max limit and to be happy with that. I know lot's of students used to sell drugs or other illegal acts to fund their education, that's the only way they could make it they told me. And many were practically homeless, sleeping on someone's couch...but they weren't lazy. You nailed down the problem, and then you advocate for the problem. Government "help" doesn't help! That's what I've been saying this whole time, except that I've also been saying government "help" actually exacerbates the problem. You admit that the government doesn't help, so why should we want more of what is clearly not working? Do you know what you're talking about? I have been through the system and I know where it fails, $5,730 is not enough to cover rent. Financial aid should be around $10,00-12,000. I know from experience that a few thousand dollars is the difference between pass or fail. So, I say increase you say decrease. You target poor people as the problem I target lack of resources available to them. You have no solution, but to let them go to hell for being poor. I have a solution that will get them on equal footing to prepare for the real world. And all it takes is 4 years and enough to survive and get a useful education. Do you know what you're talking about? Throwing more money at the same problem just makes the problem more expensive. You're making no sense, and even contradicting yourself. How did anything ever accomplish anything before the government took over? A lot more effectively and efficiently. That's how. You're damn right I'm advocating for the government not only spending less, but spending NOTHING on most of what they have their hands in. Government involvement exacerbates the problem. You even admitted it, then advocate for more MORE government intervention. Doing more of the same yields more of the same. The fact that you buy the typical left wing line indicates to me that perhaps you are not educated, but indoctrinated. You seem to believe that schooling and education are the same thing, when in reality, they are very different. Wise up and think for yourself. I think that a good education prepares young people to go into a professional field. I'm not a liberal...I'm more like an Asian/Indian person when it comes to education...they go for medical, legal, engineering degrees. I think the Indians/Asians got it right..the liberals are out of touch, so are the conservatives. This is just a problem about getting the numbers right so poor students can afford to get an education. I'm not dumb, lazy, greedy I have good credit and never took out a loan, because I live within my means. I relied on financial aid and part time jobs and it failed me by a few thousand dollars and couldn't get enough sleep or study time..couldn't even get an associate degree from a community college during 3 years..but I plan to go back and finish soon I still got 6 classes left. I see no point in getting a loan for a 2 year degree, it won't get me a better paying job. You're making the mistake of assuming that someone who goes to school is educated. Often, getting a degree means you're indoctrinated. Again, your advocacy for more money into the same system shows that you lack critical thinking skills. You may not be a liberal, but on this, you definitely are. Spend more, but don't change the system itself. That has failed for decades. It gets worse, so let's spend more. That didn't work? Spend more. But if anyone dares to look at the truth and see that maybe the problem isn't money, but the system itself, that person is an idiot. Really? You want to keep doing the exact same thing that isn't working. And I'm an idiot? Whatever. You may have been to school, but you certainly didn't learn how to solve problems. You lack respect skills? I have demonstrated that the problem is exactly money. What's wrong with the poor if not money? Use your logic. Is sacrificing common sense a prerequisite for admission into college? Seriously. You said government help doesn't help, then you said let's spend more money on the exact same system, even though we've been spending more money. Why are you against changing the system? More money into a failed system doesn't fix anything. Give an alcoholic more money so he can get into rehab. But he uses the money for more alcohol. So give him more money so he can afford rehab. Again, he spends it on alcohol. At what point do you realize that maybe money isn't the answer? In your convoluted world, apparently never! I already said the government spends the money wrong...I'm pretty sure they have a clue what they're doing, they can do math, but they just don't care to have an honest system. You agree with that part? Why are you debating like I'm the big enemy? Maybe we can agree on some points and learn from each other since we have different perspectives, but you're always insulting me, my world is convoluted? Really? Can you be respectful? |
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Yet, you don't consider that maybe government involvement in these things is the problem instead of the solution. In my experience government help as it is doesn't help. Even with the maximum financial aid for full time adult student the government assumes you will get about $7000 support from parents. I never could understand this from talking to the financial aid counselors, they just tell me that I was receiving the max limit and to be happy with that. I know lot's of students used to sell drugs or other illegal acts to fund their education, that's the only way they could make it they told me. And many were practically homeless, sleeping on someone's couch...but they weren't lazy. You nailed down the problem, and then you advocate for the problem. Government "help" doesn't help! That's what I've been saying this whole time, except that I've also been saying government "help" actually exacerbates the problem. You admit that the government doesn't help, so why should we want more of what is clearly not working? Do you know what you're talking about? I have been through the system and I know where it fails, $5,730 is not enough to cover rent. Financial aid should be around $10,00-12,000. I know from experience that a few thousand dollars is the difference between pass or fail. So, I say increase you say decrease. You target poor people as the problem I target lack of resources available to them. You have no solution, but to let them go to hell for being poor. I have a solution that will get them on equal footing to prepare for the real world. And all it takes is 4 years and enough to survive and get a useful education. Do you know what you're talking about? Throwing more money at the same problem just makes the problem more expensive. You're making no sense, and even contradicting yourself. How did anything ever accomplish anything before the government took over? A lot more effectively and efficiently. That's how. You're damn right I'm advocating for the government not only spending less, but spending NOTHING on most of what they have their hands in. Government involvement exacerbates the problem. You even admitted it, then advocate for more MORE government intervention. Doing more of the same yields more of the same. The fact that you buy the typical left wing line indicates to me that perhaps you are not educated, but indoctrinated. You seem to believe that schooling and education are the same thing, when in reality, they are very different. Wise up and think for yourself. I think that a good education prepares young people to go into a professional field. I'm not a liberal...I'm more like an Asian/Indian person when it comes to education...they go for medical, legal, engineering degrees. I think the Indians/Asians got it right..the liberals are out of touch, so are the conservatives. This is just a problem about getting the numbers right so poor students can afford to get an education. I'm not dumb, lazy, greedy I have good credit and never took out a loan, because I live within my means. I relied on financial aid and part time jobs and it failed me by a few thousand dollars and couldn't get enough sleep or study time..couldn't even get an associate degree from a community college during 3 years..but I plan to go back and finish soon I still got 6 classes left. I see no point in getting a loan for a 2 year degree, it won't get me a better paying job. You're making the mistake of assuming that someone who goes to school is educated. Often, getting a degree means you're indoctrinated. Again, your advocacy for more money into the same system shows that you lack critical thinking skills. You may not be a liberal, but on this, you definitely are. Spend more, but don't change the system itself. That has failed for decades. It gets worse, so let's spend more. That didn't work? Spend more. But if anyone dares to look at the truth and see that maybe the problem isn't money, but the system itself, that person is an idiot. Really? You want to keep doing the exact same thing that isn't working. And I'm an idiot? Whatever. You may have been to school, but you certainly didn't learn how to solve problems. You lack respect skills? I have demonstrated that the problem is exactly money. What's wrong with the poor if not money? Use your logic. Is sacrificing common sense a prerequisite for admission into college? Seriously. You said government help doesn't help, then you said let's spend more money on the exact same system, even though we've been spending more money. Why are you against changing the system? More money into a failed system doesn't fix anything. Give an alcoholic more money so he can get into rehab. But he uses the money for more alcohol. So give him more money so he can afford rehab. Again, he spends it on alcohol. At what point do you realize that maybe money isn't the answer? In your convoluted world, apparently never! I already said the government spends the money wrong...I'm pretty sure they have a clue what they're doing, they can do math, but they just don't care to have an honest system. You agree with that part? Why are you debating like I'm the big enemy? Maybe we can agree on some points and learn from each other since we have different perspectives, but you're always insulting me, my world is convoluted? Really? Can you be respectful? Apparently your idea of being respectful is, "you're absolutely right." No. I can't do that because you are not right. Government intervention is the problem, not the solution. History shows this. I'm amazed at how uneducated well schooled people can be. You say the money isn't being used correctly, which is an argument in my favor that more money isn't the answer. If we keep throwing more money at the situation, those in charge have more money to misuse. Change the system. You don't need more dollars. You need more sense. |
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Edited by
Estelle79
on
Thu 02/19/15 10:38 AM
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Yet, you don't consider that maybe government involvement in these things is the problem instead of the solution. In my experience government help as it is doesn't help. Even with the maximum financial aid for full time adult student the government assumes you will get about $7000 support from parents. I never could understand this from talking to the financial aid counselors, they just tell me that I was receiving the max limit and to be happy with that. I know lot's of students used to sell drugs or other illegal acts to fund their education, that's the only way they could make it they told me. And many were practically homeless, sleeping on someone's couch...but they weren't lazy. You nailed down the problem, and then you advocate for the problem. Government "help" doesn't help! That's what I've been saying this whole time, except that I've also been saying government "help" actually exacerbates the problem. You admit that the government doesn't help, so why should we want more of what is clearly not working? Do you know what you're talking about? I have been through the system and I know where it fails, $5,730 is not enough to cover rent. Financial aid should be around $10,00-12,000. I know from experience that a few thousand dollars is the difference between pass or fail. So, I say increase you say decrease. You target poor people as the problem I target lack of resources available to them. You have no solution, but to let them go to hell for being poor. I have a solution that will get them on equal footing to prepare for the real world. And all it takes is 4 years and enough to survive and get a useful education. Do you know what you're talking about? Throwing more money at the same problem just makes the problem more expensive. You're making no sense, and even contradicting yourself. How did anything ever accomplish anything before the government took over? A lot more effectively and efficiently. That's how. You're damn right I'm advocating for the government not only spending less, but spending NOTHING on most of what they have their hands in. Government involvement exacerbates the problem. You even admitted it, then advocate for more MORE government intervention. Doing more of the same yields more of the same. The fact that you buy the typical left wing line indicates to me that perhaps you are not educated, but indoctrinated. You seem to believe that schooling and education are the same thing, when in reality, they are very different. Wise up and think for yourself. I think that a good education prepares young people to go into a professional field. I'm not a liberal...I'm more like an Asian/Indian person when it comes to education...they go for medical, legal, engineering degrees. I think the Indians/Asians got it right..the liberals are out of touch, so are the conservatives. This is just a problem about getting the numbers right so poor students can afford to get an education. I'm not dumb, lazy, greedy I have good credit and never took out a loan, because I live within my means. I relied on financial aid and part time jobs and it failed me by a few thousand dollars and couldn't get enough sleep or study time..couldn't even get an associate degree from a community college during 3 years..but I plan to go back and finish soon I still got 6 classes left. I see no point in getting a loan for a 2 year degree, it won't get me a better paying job. You're making the mistake of assuming that someone who goes to school is educated. Often, getting a degree means you're indoctrinated. Again, your advocacy for more money into the same system shows that you lack critical thinking skills. You may not be a liberal, but on this, you definitely are. Spend more, but don't change the system itself. That has failed for decades. It gets worse, so let's spend more. That didn't work? Spend more. But if anyone dares to look at the truth and see that maybe the problem isn't money, but the system itself, that person is an idiot. Really? You want to keep doing the exact same thing that isn't working. And I'm an idiot? Whatever. You may have been to school, but you certainly didn't learn how to solve problems. You lack respect skills? I have demonstrated that the problem is exactly money. What's wrong with the poor if not money? Use your logic. Is sacrificing common sense a prerequisite for admission into college? Seriously. You said government help doesn't help, then you said let's spend more money on the exact same system, even though we've been spending more money. Why are you against changing the system? More money into a failed system doesn't fix anything. Give an alcoholic more money so he can get into rehab. But he uses the money for more alcohol. So give him more money so he can afford rehab. Again, he spends it on alcohol. At what point do you realize that maybe money isn't the answer? In your convoluted world, apparently never! I already said the government spends the money wrong...I'm pretty sure they have a clue what they're doing, they can do math, but they just don't care to have an honest system. You agree with that part? Why are you debating like I'm the big enemy? Maybe we can agree on some points and learn from each other since we have different perspectives, but you're always insulting me, my world is convoluted? Really? Can you be respectful? Apparently your idea of being respectful is, "you're absolutely right." No. I can't do that because you are not right. Government intervention is the problem, not the solution. History shows this. I'm amazed at how uneducated well schooled people can be. You say the money isn't being used correctly, which is an argument in my favor that more money isn't the answer. If we keep throwing more money at the situation, those in charge have more money to misuse. Change the system. You don't need more dollars. You need more sense. Respect is giving your opinion without putting someone down for theirs. Yes, I have argued in your favor because I actually agree with you on that point. The government is obviously interested in making money for themselves and their friends. It's all designed to benefit the rich and powerful. Keeping a segment of the population poor, keeping the middle class from having jobs or small businesses, keeping education out of reach, poor infrastructure, pitting us against each other, actually benefits them. So there you have the answer as to why government funding has not been working out in our favor. Greed, corruption and lies. And for the poor and the middle class money and power is what they need to change government. We have the numbers but not the resources to fight back. We are living in a police state with a militant police force which means it would be impossible to have a revolution. We had our chance back in the 60's and blew it. Everyone is on their own now. It is designed that way. Maybe you agree with some of that? |
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The problem with this "temporary" assistance is that I can point out examples of people who have been on it for decades. I doubt it,,,unless, as I said it is a disability situation or they are committing FRAUD,, which is about as much the fault of assistance as robbery is the fault of banks You doubting it doesn't make it untrue. It also indicates that they are not the only ones who have been gaming the system. as I said , people 'gaming' the system is a matter of character, not the fault of the system just like people robbing banks is a matter of their character and not a slight to having banks the vast majority of bank transaction is up and up, and the same is true with assistance clients,, |
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My point is according to Sharpton himself, and others, I'm evil because my ancestors are not from Africa and I didn't vote for the current occupant of 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. Sharpton gives a voice to Sharpton. He's against realizing MLK's Dream, and actively works against the Dream for his own relevance. your hangup, he has never said it,,,  Gee,what a lovable Character!  nice way to go back two decades for something to pin on him,, very well done but as I said, people grow,,,I have grown since five years ago, let alone from who I was twenty years ago and in any case, nothing there states anyone is evil, or refers to president Obama ,, in fact with the exception of the sexual preference slur,, its just as true as 'blacks are the biggest threat to blacks' I guess he is no more or less lovable than some who begrudge him,,,  next you tell me that the Weasel has changed his Spot?   I have, I once believed white men were freaknasty pervert pedophiles but time and experience (aka, growth) made me wiser,,, everyone goes through experiences that change them in very slight to very dramatic ways , throughout the period of their lifetime |
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Yet, you don't consider that maybe government involvement in these things is the problem instead of the solution. In my experience government help as it is doesn't help. Even with the maximum financial aid for full time adult student the government assumes you will get about $7000 support from parents. I never could understand this from talking to the financial aid counselors, they just tell me that I was receiving the max limit and to be happy with that. I know lot's of students used to sell drugs or other illegal acts to fund their education, that's the only way they could make it they told me. And many were practically homeless, sleeping on someone's couch...but they weren't lazy. thats on the business/corporate/institutional greed side, in my opinion college tuition costs are ridiculously high comparative to average wages,,,,, but noone begrudges them or reigns them in the profitmaker is always right because of 'capitalism' and the impoverished who get priced out are always wrong because of 'self responsibility' that is the system americans (many) buy into,, unfortunately |
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 How did this thread go from its original topic to a discussion about college? what went wrong in martin case jury made their choice choice was right because zimmerman did nothing wrong in defending himself why were people upset about zimmerman but dont address the violence between black people black people are the biggest threat to black people why doesnt shaprton addrss black on black crime why mention race and the justice system blacks would be best just helping themselves without the system(more like in spite of, but I digress) the poor stay poor because the system helping them keeps them poor college ,,,,,,,,,,caught up now? MARTIN> Blacks and whites and crime> the justice system and crime> the poor victims of the systems help who could do much better without any help at all,,,(or just the sparse assistance of the declining number of churches as the population grows larger) |
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Edited by
Leigh2154
on
Thu 02/19/15 11:37 AM
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the profitmaker is always right because of 'capitalism' and the impoverished who get priced out are always wrong because of 'self responsibility' that is the system americans (many) buy into,, unfortunately I have to call BS on that^^^ due to my time on earth and personal growth  ...Unless they are reformed, entitlement programs in the US will eventually become insolvent...Our current administration is aware of this, but they delay reform for strictly political reasons AND THAT IS THE REAL THREAT TO OUR NATION'S POOR...Entitlement programs, as structured, are unsustainable because of longer life expectancy, changing demographics, rising interest rates on national debt and rising health care costs...Twenty year projections show us that retired Americans will increase by 75% while those working will only increase by 7%..Government spending on entitlement programs and interest payments comes at the expense of defense, education and infrastructure...Raising taxes to offset even a portion of the spending increases demanded by Obamacare and growing entitlement programs will only serve to crush the economy...It's a little know fact, but right now what Washington spends on entitlement programs and interest exceeds what it collects in federal income taxes...
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On campus jobs pay less than minimum wage. No one has addressed the insanity of being able to come up with the $7000 that financial aid assumes your parents will provide even for adult students. Also, most full time students that study something useful are not taking easy classes, so the out of class work takes up most of the time in a day and weekend. College counselors recommend not working while in difficult educational programs...such as nursing...the ones that will pay well and be more useful in the real world. I would never sell drugs or take drugs, I'm not even saying people are forced to, and I guess those who do it are at least partly doing it to support their own habit so I will let that one go. All I'm saying is that if education is the answer to end poverty it needs to be better funded by the government. Widespread poverty is a government issue not an individual one. If students are expected to pay full rent and be full time students the government should fund this. If students don't get good grades they are disqualified so they can't just sit around and get a free ride...you guys love that saying and it's not very helpful. Who's talking about on campus jobs, Estelle?...there is a world outside the main college gates. The government should pay the RENT AND THE COLLEGE EDUCATION?.. THATS A FREE RIDE Estelle.. on the backs of the tax payer.... And you have college debt... you and millions of others. So what? welcome to reality. I, me, me mine... that's you Estelle. Who said I had college debt? Welcome to my reality. I have good credit, never take out loans, and pay my credit card in full every month. |
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Tell me what you think went the wrong with Trayvon Martin case. The biggest thing that went wrong with the Martin case was that people rushed to judgement. People wanted to project their own beliefs onto a situation without knowing all the facts. Based on the evidence brought forth during the trial, including the testimony of the Martin's female friend, it seems pretty clear that Trayvon brought about his own death by attacking someone who was tailing him. |
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Yet, you don't consider that maybe government involvement in these things is the problem instead of the solution. In my experience government help as it is doesn't help. Even with the maximum financial aid for full time adult student the government assumes you will get about $7000 support from parents. I never could understand this from talking to the financial aid counselors, they just tell me that I was receiving the max limit and to be happy with that. I know lot's of students used to sell drugs or other illegal acts to fund their education, that's the only way they could make it they told me. And many were practically homeless, sleeping on someone's couch...but they weren't lazy. You nailed down the problem, and then you advocate for the problem. Government "help" doesn't help! That's what I've been saying this whole time, except that I've also been saying government "help" actually exacerbates the problem. You admit that the government doesn't help, so why should we want more of what is clearly not working? Do you know what you're talking about? I have been through the system and I know where it fails, $5,730 is not enough to cover rent. Financial aid should be around $10,00-12,000. I know from experience that a few thousand dollars is the difference between pass or fail. So, I say increase you say decrease. You target poor people as the problem I target lack of resources available to them. You have no solution, but to let them go to hell for being poor. I have a solution that will get them on equal footing to prepare for the real world. And all it takes is 4 years and enough to survive and get a useful education. Do you know what you're talking about? Throwing more money at the same problem just makes the problem more expensive. You're making no sense, and even contradicting yourself. How did anything ever accomplish anything before the government took over? A lot more effectively and efficiently. That's how. You're damn right I'm advocating for the government not only spending less, but spending NOTHING on most of what they have their hands in. Government involvement exacerbates the problem. You even admitted it, then advocate for more MORE government intervention. Doing more of the same yields more of the same. The fact that you buy the typical left wing line indicates to me that perhaps you are not educated, but indoctrinated. You seem to believe that schooling and education are the same thing, when in reality, they are very different. Wise up and think for yourself. I think that a good education prepares young people to go into a professional field. I'm not a liberal...I'm more like an Asian/Indian person when it comes to education...they go for medical, legal, engineering degrees. I think the Indians/Asians got it right..the liberals are out of touch, so are the conservatives. This is just a problem about getting the numbers right so poor students can afford to get an education. I'm not dumb, lazy, greedy I have good credit and never took out a loan, because I live within my means. I relied on financial aid and part time jobs and it failed me by a few thousand dollars and couldn't get enough sleep or study time..couldn't even get an associate degree from a community college during 3 years..but I plan to go back and finish soon I still got 6 classes left. I see no point in getting a loan for a 2 year degree, it won't get me a better paying job. You're making the mistake of assuming that someone who goes to school is educated. Often, getting a degree means you're indoctrinated. Again, your advocacy for more money into the same system shows that you lack critical thinking skills. You may not be a liberal, but on this, you definitely are. Spend more, but don't change the system itself. That has failed for decades. It gets worse, so let's spend more. That didn't work? Spend more. But if anyone dares to look at the truth and see that maybe the problem isn't money, but the system itself, that person is an idiot. Really? You want to keep doing the exact same thing that isn't working. And I'm an idiot? Whatever. You may have been to school, but you certainly didn't learn how to solve problems. You lack respect skills? I have demonstrated that the problem is exactly money. What's wrong with the poor if not money? Use your logic. Is sacrificing common sense a prerequisite for admission into college? Seriously. You said government help doesn't help, then you said let's spend more money on the exact same system, even though we've been spending more money. Why are you against changing the system? More money into a failed system doesn't fix anything. Give an alcoholic more money so he can get into rehab. But he uses the money for more alcohol. So give him more money so he can afford rehab. Again, he spends it on alcohol. At what point do you realize that maybe money isn't the answer? In your convoluted world, apparently never! I already said the government spends the money wrong...I'm pretty sure they have a clue what they're doing, they can do math, but they just don't care to have an honest system. You agree with that part? Why are you debating like I'm the big enemy? Maybe we can agree on some points and learn from each other since we have different perspectives, but you're always insulting me, my world is convoluted? Really? Can you be respectful? Apparently your idea of being respectful is, "you're absolutely right." No. I can't do that because you are not right. Government intervention is the problem, not the solution. History shows this. I'm amazed at how uneducated well schooled people can be. You say the money isn't being used correctly, which is an argument in my favor that more money isn't the answer. If we keep throwing more money at the situation, those in charge have more money to misuse. Change the system. You don't need more dollars. You need more sense. Respect is giving your opinion without putting someone down for theirs. Yes, I have argued in your favor because I actually agree with you on that point. The government is obviously interested in making money for themselves and their friends. It's all designed to benefit the rich and powerful. Keeping a segment of the population poor, keeping the middle class from having jobs or small businesses, keeping education out of reach, poor infrastructure, pitting us against each other, actually benefits them. So there you have the answer as to why government funding has not been working out in our favor. Greed, corruption and lies. And for the poor and the middle class money and power is what they need to change government. We have the numbers but not the resources to fight back. We are living in a police state with a militant police force which means it would be impossible to have a revolution. We had our chance back in the 60's and blew it. Everyone is on their own now. It is designed that way. Maybe you agree with some of that? You just made argued my case in favor of removing government. The politicians and bureaucrats are corrupt and cheat the system. You're right about that. So we them to stay involved? That makes no sense at all. How can you see the corruption, yet still favor leaving the corrupt in charge? You are making my case, then telling me I'm wrong. Perhaps, as I've said before, you should let facts dictate your opinions instead of twisting the facts to fit your opinions. |
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I just disagree with you that money is useless in the hands of the poor. I agree that the government is corrupt, and the system needs to change.
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Since you Humans are going to talk about college, I'm going to inject into this thread a piece of reality that some Humans might find to be unpleasant.
Gaining a college education isn't a civil right. |
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It should be, since the jobs for high school graduates with little training were not protected by our government, and they went overseas. Now there are only high school kid jobs (fast food joints) or college graduate jobs (most jobs that never needed any degree now demand a college degree). College is financially unattainable for so many yet, a college degree is a must to have your online job application read and to get an interview. And then they want 3-5 years experience and that is the next hurdle. All this just to get a job that pays enough to get off welfare and food stamps.
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