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| Topic: Gender Fluidity | |
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RebelArcher asked >>> What will happen with all the blue and pink lil knit caps the maternity wards have stockpiled? Odd how you brought up this quaint misconception about that little 'THING'; I had to show SassyEuro {when we were discussing the new princess arrival} where the colors were actually swapped around the other way! Boys were 'PINK' and Girls were 'BLUE' until the catalogs &magazines and war issue of the 1930's started pushing their media bias on the women that ordered items from the magazines & catalogs! That's why your grand pappy was in a dress in those baby photo's until he was in knickers in later ones - around the ages of 3 - 4. We humans seem to place such a 'HIGH DEGREE' upon color coding our children as if that will be the #1 deciding factor for their gender 
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RebelArcher asked >>> What will happen with all the blue and pink lil knit caps the maternity wards have stockpiled? Odd how you brought up this quaint misconception about that little 'THING'; I had to show SassyEuro {when we were discussing the new princess arrival} where the colors were actually swapped around the other way! Boys were 'PINK' and Girls were 'BLUE' until the catalogs &magazines and war issue of the 1930's started pushing their media bias on the women that ordered items from the magazines & catalogs! That's why your grand pappy was in a dress in those baby photo's until he was in knickers in later ones - around the ages of 3 - 4. We humans seem to place such a 'HIGH DEGREE' upon color coding our children as if that will be the #1 deciding factor for their gender Penis=Male Vagina=Female. |
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I don't see what the big deal is with colors on babies. ? So what ,if it is in pink or blue?
Why should all infants in a hospital nursery be dressed alike or anywhere? We are 2 different sexes. * anything else is extremely rare & so what? * Why should a nurse go to a hospital nursery & check every baby ,just to find Johnny ? Geez! Check the ones with the blue caps. Until an ADULT is old enough to say "I AM.... blah blah blah or I'm NOT blah blah blah " It is what the doctors & parents see it as. And should be raised in the culture & Faith of the parents, no matter how sex oriented or differencated , or sexist it is. |
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Why should a nurse go to a hospital nursery & check every baby ,just to find Johnny ? Geez! Check the ones with the blue caps. Not so quaintly done any longer: BARCODE be the rule of the day now...to many mistakes - to many babies stolen out of hospital neonatal units --- every one has a wrist band and it's a barcoded ID# system...even my elderly mother had hers!  |
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Edited by
SassyEuro2
on
Sun 05/31/15 03:59 PM
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And every patient should have a wrist ban, which isn't necessarily done to determine gender.
But for, the hospital's convenience, & maybe the patients safety... assigning each patient a barcode/ hospital records code, with their ID, room number, medical history, allergies, religion, marital status, next of kin, insurance company etc. Identifing male or female, infants or otherwise is still necessary. No matter if it is a newborn or a criminal suspect. |
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SassyEuro stated >>> And every patient should have a wrist ban, which isn't necessarily done to determine gender. But for, the hospital's convenience, & maybe the patients safety... assigning each patient a barcode/ hospital records code, with their ID, room number, medical history, allergies, religion, marital status, next of kin, insurance company etc. Identifing male or female, infants or otherwise is still necessary. No matter if it is a newborn or a criminal suspect. Except - 'new born Intesexed' babies have nothing to do with a 'Criminal Suspect'; ergo the very reason that the 'GENDER FLUIDITY' is something that has become an issue --- and now the entire story line has gone FULL CIRCLE!
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SassyEuro stated >>> And every patient should have a wrist ban, which isn't necessarily done to determine gender. But for, the hospital's convenience, & maybe the patients safety... assigning each patient a barcode/ hospital records code, with their ID, room number, medical history, allergies, religion, marital status, next of kin, insurance company etc. Identifing male or female, infants or otherwise is still necessary. No matter if it is a newborn or a criminal suspect. Except - 'new born Intesexed' babies have nothing to do with a 'Criminal Suspect'; ergo the very reason that the 'GENDER FLUIDITY' is something that has become an issue --- and now the entire story line has gone FULL CIRCLE!  Neither does you mom in the hospital with an arm band. I thought you just wanted chit chat. You haven't proven or justified North America changeing just to make a few questionable humans ' feel good about their body ', by having a major control issues & trying to force everyone to change for them. Men will always be men. Women will always be women. And we will always make moreboys & girls. 
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Edited by
2OLD2MESSAROUND
on
Mon 06/01/15 04:54 AM
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SassyEuro stated >>> And every patient should have a wrist ban, which isn't necessarily done to determine gender. But for, the hospital's convenience, & maybe the patients safety... assigning each patient a barcode/ hospital records code, with their ID, room number, medical history, allergies, religion, marital status, next of kin, insurance company etc. Identifing male or female, infants or otherwise is still necessary. No matter if it is a newborn or a criminal suspect. 2old2 stated >>> Except - 'new born Intesexed' babies have nothing to do with a 'Criminal Suspect'; ergo the very reason that the 'GENDER FLUIDITY' is something that has become an issue --- and now the entire story line has gone FULL CIRCLE! SassyEuro Stated >>> Neither does you mom in the hospital with an arm band. I thought you just wanted chit chat. You haven't proven or justified North America changing just to make a few questionable humans ' feel good about their body ', by having a major control issues & trying to force everyone to change for them. Men will always be men. Women will always be women. And we will always make moreboys & girls. #1 since my mother deceased that's a real 'MOOT POINT' #2 not my job to keep trying to convince those that ignore medical reasoning that once was just left up to doctors: 'who thought they understood the why & need to cut off certain deformed genital parts'; and messed it up for the unfortunate baby #3 but now fully grasp that the BRAIN plays a more integral part in gender identification #4 nope, like all medical progress - there will ALWAYS be those that just do not like the direction that PROGRESS MOVES US and for this I'm highly delighted that faith & medical teaching was separated before it kept us in the dark ages and the only method of reducing fevers was blood letting!   I'll leave your wonderful topic and the stone wall that has become your POV; congrats
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2OLD, Here is the real difference.
I don't need or want you to agree with me. * Boring * I don't need to be right .. because the game is ' How we do it & handle it & move on to next. ' Thanks for making my phone occasionally interesting.  |
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First, just want to say that I have enjoyed this thread...Learned a few things and rethought a few things that I "thought" I had compartmentalized years ago...When I look for research results I almost always go to Pew Research Center...
These results say one thing to me, the jury is still out...So in the meantime, doesn't it make sense to "try" to cover all the bases?..... From the Pew Research Center March 2015... 42% of Americans polled said being gay or lesbian is "just the way some choose to live"... 41% said "people are born gay or lesbian"... 8% said that people are gay or lesbian due to their upbringing 9% said they didn't know or declined to give a response People with the most education were more likely to say gays and lesbians are born that way... The percentage of all Americans who believe that people are born gay or lesbian has roughly doubled since 1985, going from 20% to 41%... More than three decades of Gallop polls show a considerable rise in the view that being gay or lesbian is a product of nature rather than nurture... The American Psychological Association says that while there is no scientific consensus on the origins of sexual orientation, most people experience little or no sense of choice about it... http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/03/06/americans-are-still-divided-on-why-people-are-gay/ and this... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pew_Research_Center |
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https://news.vice.com/article/canadas-most-populous-province-just-banned-conversion-therapy-for-lgbtq-youth
Ontario Canada |
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One's sex is real. Most humans are definitely either male or female, and there are a few who are not. Sex is relevant for medical reasons, for procreation, and a few other contexts.
Everything else is just culture. Gender is a fabrication. Gender is only as real as we make it, by believing in it and giving importance to it. Gender is largely a means of making assumptions about other people, a mechanism for putting individuals into limited boxes. I see how this is convenient, but I also think is unfair to many people - not just supposedly 'transgender' people. |
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"Is Kim Kardashian a Transgender or a Clone or What?" on YouTube - http://youtu.be/KD1mIMOuBPI/
Woa..  I am almost speechless. I certainly do not agree with everything on this video, but this certainly is the thread for it. * I need to get some aspirins now & wash my out * 
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One's sex is real. Most humans are definitely either male or female, and there are a few who are not. Sex is relevant for medical reasons, for procreation, and a few other contexts. Everything else is just culture. Gender is a fabrication. Gender is only as real as we make it, by believing in it and giving importance to it. Gender is largely a means of making assumptions about other people, a mechanism for putting individuals into limited boxes. I see how this is convenient, but I also think is unfair to many people - not just supposedly 'transgender' people. From the intersex society of America "Intersex is a socially constructed category that reflects real biological variation" you seem to be right , society has decided to add this designation for all the 'inbetween', that happens outside of the historical anatomical designations that we have used for all animal species and has been determined by role in procreation intersex is a social construct but procreation is a factual starting point with which we used to define FACTUALLY and BIOLOGICALLY which part of the role the anatomy plays males fertilize females bring life into the world unles something is 'wrong' with the individual anatomy itself |
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"Is Kim Kardashian a Transgender or a Clone or What?" on YouTube - http://youtu.be/KD1mIMOuBPI/ Woa.. I am almost speechless. I certainly do not agree with everything on this video, but this certainly is the thread for it. * I need to get some aspirins now & wash my out * beign that she carried and gave birth to life,, Id say definitely female a transgender female doesn't have the anatomy to actually BECOME pregnant or carry life,, |
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First, just want to say that I have enjoyed this thread...Learned a few things and rethought a few things that I "thought" I had compartmentalized years ago...When I look for research results I almost always go to Pew Research Center... These results say one thing to me, the jury is still out...So in the meantime, doesn't it make sense to "try" to cover all the bases?..... From the Pew Research Center March 2015... 42% of Americans polled said being gay or lesbian is "just the way some choose to live"... 41% said "people are born gay or lesbian"... 8% said that people are gay or lesbian due to their upbringing 9% said they didn't know or declined to give a response People with the most education were more likely to say gays and lesbians are born that way... The percentage of all Americans who believe that people are born gay or lesbian has roughly doubled since 1985, going from 20% to 41%... More than three decades of Gallop polls show a considerable rise in the view that being gay or lesbian is a product of nature rather than nurture... The American Psychological Association says that while there is no scientific consensus on the origins of sexual orientation, most people experience little or no sense of choice about it... http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/03/06/americans-are-still-divided-on-why-people-are-gay/ and this... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pew_Research_Center interestingly when I read 'people with the most education' , it sways me one of two ways 1. on topics that are evidence and facts based like math, science, reading,, etc,,, I think they are people that have spent the most time really being exposed to FACTS and absorbing them 2. on topics that are not based on evidence or facts like history, or sexual preference, I think they are people that have spent the most time being INDOCTRINATED to believe something,,, since the 80's, IMHO. the LGBT has gained much power, political and social, and successfully IMMERSED (a process that people use to absorb information, especially in foreign languages) society in the 'born that way' ideology,,, first by getting medical society on board in spite of the usual requirements for verifiable evidence,,,,,and by gradually immersing anyone who watches media (television, internet) into the 'normalcy' and 'mainstream' expectation and finding social mouthpieces to shame everyone into accepting it, and by including it in the educational process ITSELF,,,,, its the conditioning of society,,, obviously, my opinion, like most posts are (opinions) |
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One's sex is real. Most humans are definitely either male or female, and there are a few who are not. Sex is relevant for medical reasons, for procreation, and a few other contexts. Everything else is just culture. Gender is a fabrication. Gender is only as real as we make it, by believing in it and giving importance to it. Gender is largely a means of making assumptions about other people, a mechanism for putting individuals into limited boxes. I see how this is convenient, but I also think is unfair to many people - not just supposedly 'transgender' people. From the intersex society of America "Intersex is a socially constructed category that reflects real biological variation" you seem to be right , society has decided to add this designation for all the 'inbetween', that happens outside of the historical anatomical designations that we have used for all animal species and has been determined by role in procreation intersex is a social construct but procreation is a factual starting point with which we used to define FACTUALLY and BIOLOGICALLY which part of the role the anatomy plays males fertilize females bring life into the world unles something is 'wrong' with the individual anatomy itself Yeah, 'intersex' is as much a social construct as 'man' or 'woman'. I don't get these transgender activists. I think most of them are going about it all wrong. They insist (and I agree) that 'man' and 'woman' are 'social constructs' (as opposed to the biological reality of male/penis/XY and female/vagina/XX)... ... but then they go on to make a really big deal about how some females are "really men in reality". If 'man' is a social construct, then no one is a 'man' in a 'reality'. You are a 'person with a penis and XY chromosomes' in reality, and a 'man' only because you and others have decided you are. You can't have it both ways. If gender is fluid and a social construct, then most transgender people are just getting caught up in the same social constructs the rest of us are - many more so! If we want to be more fair to intersex people, I think its better to move away from stereotypes and too much attachment to gender signifiers. If penis-born people want to wear dresses or make up, I don't care. But when penis-born people say "I'm a woman! See, I'm wearing a dress and make up!" they are really just *strengthening* the power of gender as a social construct. |
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since the 80's, IMHO. the LGBT has gained much power, political and social, and successfully IMMERSED (a process that people use to absorb information, especially in foreign languages) society in the 'born that way' ideology,,, first by getting medical society on board in spite of the usual requirements for verifiable evidence,,,,,and by gradually immersing anyone who watches media (television, internet) into the 'normalcy' and 'mainstream' expectation and finding social mouthpieces to shame everyone into accepting it, and by including it in the educational process ITSELF,,,,, its the conditioning of society,,, obviously, my opinion, like most posts are (opinions) I agree that the 'born that way' claim is over exaggerated - some people act as if their upbringing, early sexual experiences, personal choices, etc have NOTHING to do with any nuance of their sexual preference... ...but I think the scientific/medical evidence is actually quite strong that there are prenatal factors that *influence* sexual orientation. That much is not really controversial. |
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,,told ya so first make same sex marriage the same as traditional marriage next make one sex the same as the other but never never, indicate that sexuality itself is 'fluid' and potentially changing because we are just 'born that way' shrugs hi,, my dear how are you. |
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One's sex is real. Most humans are definitely either male or female, and there are a few who are not. Sex is relevant for medical reasons, for procreation, and a few other contexts. Everything else is just culture. Gender is a fabrication. Gender is only as real as we make it, by believing in it and giving importance to it. Gender is largely a means of making assumptions about other people, a mechanism for putting individuals into limited boxes. I see how this is convenient, but I also think is unfair to many people - not just supposedly 'transgender' people. From the intersex society of America "Intersex is a socially constructed category that reflects real biological variation" you seem to be right , society has decided to add this designation for all the 'inbetween', that happens outside of the historical anatomical designations that we have used for all animal species and has been determined by role in procreation intersex is a social construct but procreation is a factual starting point with which we used to define FACTUALLY and BIOLOGICALLY which part of the role the anatomy plays males fertilize females bring life into the world unles something is 'wrong' with the individual anatomy itself Yeah, 'intersex' is as much a social construct as 'man' or 'woman'. I don't get these transgender activists. I think most of them are going about it all wrong. They insist (and I agree) that 'man' and 'woman' are 'social constructs' (as opposed to the biological reality of male/penis/XY and female/vagina/XX)... ... but then they go on to make a really big deal about how some females are "really men in reality". If 'man' is a social construct, then no one is a 'man' in a 'reality'. You are a 'person with a penis and XY chromosomes' in reality, and a 'man' only because you and others have decided you are. You can't have it both ways. If gender is fluid and a social construct, then most transgender people are just getting caught up in the same social constructs the rest of us are - many more so! If we want to be more fair to intersex people, I think its better to move away from stereotypes and too much attachment to gender signifiers. If penis-born people want to wear dresses or make up, I don't care. But when penis-born people say "I'm a woman! See, I'm wearing a dress and make up!" they are really just *strengthening* the power of gender as a social construct. another excellent point a doctor doesn't determine whether you are going to have ovaries or testicles,,,they just try to match the EXTERNAL appearance with the INTERNAL reality so why cant males (those with penis and testicles which produce SPERM) , who if they died anonymously tomorrow on the coroners desk would be labeled 'male',,,, feel free to like dresses and makeup as MALES,, instead of needing to be called 'woman' imagine if all the women in the world who grew up liking sports and hating pink bought into a feeling that they didn't have the right BODY to match how they felt? ,, society embraced the TOMBOY,,(women whose behaviors and interested are more in common with males) ,,why cant we embrace 'Janegirls',,,(men whose behaviors and interests are more in common with females),lol and reinforce in both tomboys and janegirls to embrace the ANATOMY that nature/god/biology,,,, gave them? |
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