I know the feeling... I was uninsured for over ten years from 1996 to 2006...

Hospital systems have some of the most ruthless collection agency tactics, too. I ran up a bill for $300 to a registered dietician (at the request of my doctor) and they hounded me sometimes three calls a day, 7 days a week for weeks... it was most terrifying... through that experience I learned that you can demand they do not harrass you... wow... I thought they were suppose to concentrate on healing people...

So much for capitalism I guess...

Sorry... after reading just that much, I am asking myself "why does this guy make his selections from this common type of people?"

Actually...

...after thinking about this for a few minutes...

It would be MUCH healthier for you to pose this question to your health care provider and not here in an open public forum where you stand the chance at being openly mistreated.

I might wonder why you seem to find a need to ask this question here in the forums. It seems a sneaky way to punish yourself...

my 2 cents...

In my own ignorance of the condition I would probably over-react, or ask too many questions. I personally wouldn't be able to cope with it because I would need to be educated in what the condition was about. Fear of the unknown is the worst. But, if a person takes a relationship slow, and does the right thing right off... to be become FRIENDS before jumping in the sack and engaging all life hormones, etc... Friends are more understanding than one-night-stander-shallow-people...

I personally couldn't handle it... but that's just me.

With all the talk of health care reform, I thought it might be interesting for folks to post some real-world ridiculous health care cost you have seen on an actual hospital or medical bill.

Example (fictional):

Fifty bucks for two aspirin during my over-night stay in the hospital.

I have heard many exclamations over the years from relatives or friends that have either been in the hospital, or had to under-go certain medical testing procedures.

Here's one real-world example... my mother was sent by her regular physician to a podiatrist. The podiatrist recommended she get some special insoles for her shoes. She ordered them at his request. When she got the bill, the insurance company refused to pay for them, and she was sent a bill for $400 for two insoles.

Later, she found the very similar product in a mail order catalog... for $9.95... and she said the one's she bought from the mail-order company fit her feet much better than the ones specially fit and ordered by the podiatrist.

She has no recompence or way to get her money back for the $400 she spent in the medical system.

Perhaps you have heard of some ridiculous medical bill or story?

Rather than arguing health care issues here (as in current events, etc...) simply tell us your ridiculous health care expense story.



Telephoneman.

That's one huge problem right there... it should be the same LOWER price for everybody, all of the time. The regulation needs to be at the billing-cycle level.

It actually shows evidence of a system that discriminates against and presents a disparate impact against the rich. Just because a person is rich does not mean they should be expected to pay more for health care, or be involved with a system that has learned to turn it's head when the doctors start to bill the insurance companies whatever their greedy little minds determine is a fair payment.

>>> Thus driving up the price of health care for the rich, and eventually for every human being. Once the bar is raised for the rich, the separation in dollars between what the rich pay and what systems like medicare pay is even greater, so the doctors b-itch even more, and the cost of health care goes up for the poor as well.

Welcome to capitalism...

Stiffer regulations need to be in place preventing the greediest of doctors from pilfering the insurance systems for profit.

Careful quoting Wikipedia... they aren't a credible research resource. For one, any Economy 101 student could tell you that the European Union is NOT legitimate to be put on a chart of GDP. They are NOT a nation. They are a grouping of nations, thus it biases the graph to put them ahead of the U.S. GDP.

It is relevant, however, to note the U.S. GDP at 14.3 trillion... the largest economy in the world... has only for competition, the next closest economy to the U.S. is Japan, at 4.9 trillion... France, is 2.8 trillion... our US GDP is over 5 times the amount of France's economy... PLUS... the population of France is only 65 million people, total... the U.S. population is around 307 million (we have 4.7 times more people in this country, and we produce 5+ times the amount of GDP than France...) Numbers make a difference, plus what one poster noted... people in France, as a whole, eat better and take care of themselves better on average than the people in the U.S., so what works in their culture isn't going to work in the land of McDonald's hamburgers and soda pop galore... we are talking two entirely different cultures here...

Instead of having as you stated "the most effective and efficient health care system in the world in a couple of years"... we would have a system that does not fit our culture whatsoever, and it would flop and cause the American tax payers billions, if not trillions in bad debt...

The U.S. Census clock is here:

http://www.census.gov/population/www/popclockus.html

A better resource for economic statistics is the U.S. Department of Commerce Bureau of Economic Analysis

http://www.bea.gov/national/nipaweb/TableView.asp?SelectedTable=5&FirstYear=2008&LastYear=2009&Freq=Qtr

Before all the idealists run away with the ball...

...I already have social health care. I am a full-time student and I qualify for the county health insurance plan. Sounds great, right?

Not...

The "system" decides who I can and cannot see as far as a doctor/health care provider.

I have come up with this quote pertaining to the county-provided health care (which would be similar to a federally-run system)...

"the poor are the world's guinea pigs..."

I have the choice of two clinics... one is in a high crime rate part of town that is ooky to drive through, and most of the clientèle there look like homeless people or minority social cases. I stand a high chance of getting mugged or who knows what just going to that neighborhood. The other (an only other) clinic accepting this social health care is called "academic internal medicine." ALL of the doctors you get to see are interns, every one of them. I haven't seen a real, practicing physician in years. I am their guinea pig as they learn to be real doctors. And... this is the depot of a large majority of the county health plan's victims ... errrr... I mean patients. Ultra sub-standard health care, howbeit free to me.

I think a great example of what the entire system would turn to nearly over-night if it became a state-run or federal-run health care system across the nation. If you have excellent coverage now, it will be lowered to a different level. If you have poor coverage now, it will be raised a bit. If you have zero coverage, you may be offered a health plan... maybe. Nothing guarantees that 100% of the population will have health coverage.

The pros of this are... my prescriptions are only $1.00 co-pay per pill type, (top THAT with any Blue Cross coverage), and I do not pay any co-pay for doctor visits at all. I also had an operation about a year ago which required an overnight stay in the hospital, and I never had to pay one penny. I never got one single hospital bill. And, 2 weeks ago I had to go to the emergency room, and E.R. visits are completely covered.

The ONLY thing that un-nerves me is that the doctors willing to accept this coverage plan are all interns. Or, from my experience, they are questionable medical professionals who seemingly take this insurance because they can't hold up a decent practice otherwise. (or so it seems) That makes me worry. As a human being I too deserve the doctor that has 30-40 or so years of medical experience, I am of the opinion that an experienced doctor is going to offer me better health care coverage, and as a poor person, I am denied the best. So much for capitalism...

I think where the regulation needs to exist is more regulation in what doctors are able to bill the insurance companies, and for how much. Most people have heard the horror stories of folks getting their hospital bills, and just ridiculous charges for the most meaningless things will be on the bill. I'm being creative here (not actual) but say, fifty buck for two aspirins, and stuff like that. It happens. It should not happen. THAT is why health coverage is so expensive. The American Medical Association (AMA) represents one of the largest lobbyist group towards Congress. So does the pharmaceutical industry lobby...

Personally, I kind of feel life sucks a majority of the time, and instead of preserving this miserable existence of slavery to taxes and the U.S. government, I would rather euthanasia were legalized, and I could simply choose to go to be with Jesus at anytime as I grow older. After all, the medical profession's bread and butter are the elderly...

I came up with this quote a few years back...

"The elderly are to doctors what the Christmas season is to retail marketing..."

hmmm... seems to me its the make-up toting, hairspray wielding female of the species that seems to be more concerned about looks... I've never once in my life put on make-up, eye-liner, lipstick, and I feel what I present myself to the public is just fine... I don't need a boob job, liposuction, coligen lips, or major amounts of plastic surgery

And...

... the sheelpes of the world have been convinced in our society that the "beauty" norms of this culture are "all that"... howbeit we all know beauty is only skin deep... and it is the phony-baloney Hollywood types that have given us our current cultural selection of "beauty"...

remember the medieval artists that painted lot's of fat girls as the most beautiful women... I'm inclined to believe that humankind is mostly fickle, and easily swayed by peer pressure...

People in this culture need to be told what to think... and the magazines, television, movies, every media source, pumps the sheeple's heads full of what they need them to think about in order to sell the next great cosmetic or hygene product...

its all bull$hit

sneaks shadow77 out of all-girl room, takes her to his lair for having-way-with activities....

(its fun to crash the girl party)

now, I'm bored and will return to my room.

...actually, statistics show girls go to college to attempt hooking up with some dude that will take care of them all of their lives.

...so much for feminism and equal rights.

I have a right to be here.

Now open the door for me and bring me a glass of ice water.

That's me on the right... official lifetime member.

Swimming
by Telephoneman (composed April 15th, 2006)


Walked to sea and waded in, waves pounding as I entered, surf knocking me down as I dove underneath the current
Started to paddle, and the current rose, but my strength convinced me to continue onward
For there on the far shore was a new life, a life so full it is beyond my scope of imagination
I need to be there, not just for my sake, but for the sake of the life I will find
Because not only will that life bless me, but I will bless it, and together, the two bless each other

So I decided to swim, one arm over the next, breathing as I was trained to breath, kicking my feet
Propelling myself toward the other shore with a distinct motivation, hoping to find a better life
A full life, a life that has meaning, purpose, a sense of belonging, a possibility to develop
And as I swam, it was not easy to get there, waves swelled and relaxed, birds flew overhead asking why I would swim
Creatures underneath wondering if I would make it, and ready to devour me if I did not

I even saw a ship, the usual ship that carries everybody else to the other shore, but I did not buy a ticket on that ship
Instead I made my own way, and I decided to swim, because that was my way, and it was what worked best for me
I wouldn't be comfortable on a ship, instead I would probably jump off and want to swim anyways, because that's me
And all I would need for faith is a simple word from the shore, maybe a twinkle of hope from the lighthouse
Because the sea is a deadly thing, hoping it could kill me, but I will gain victory over the sea and all it's ways

I have to swim, I have to keep moving because on the far shore I see my love, she's stand there and I can see her there
As she looked out, she saw me swimming, and noticed that if I were not careful that I would drown
And she was concerned for me, and did feel for me, as she saw the struggle, but knew I had to do it for myself
There is no other way, and it is I that needs to swim, not her.. so I jumped in the surf and began to paddle out
I may get weary as I near the shore, but my peace is in knowing that she definitely wants me to come

It is what draws me to her, and as I look up through the salt water in my eyes, I strain to see if she is still there
Still standing, still hoping, still being what I knew her to be... awaiting her love as well, holding me fast in her heart
Whatever waves rise, whatever the sea throws at me, I must continue on, until she is in my arms
Until she is there in front of me, and I in front of her, then the words that we speak will be clear
Words and non-verbal communications, and all of the things available to perception when two people meet

It may become frustrating, but I must paddle on... I see a worth to this beyond any pain in my muscles
I may become exhausted even, but it is worth it all, I may tire and need to stop and tread water in order to rest
But then keep continuing until my feet touch bottom on the other shore, far away, far from my home, but close to her
Leaving all that I have behind, and taking a chance that a much better life would be found over there
Hoping to find warmth in her words, and truth in her eyes, to find warmth in her touch, and truth in her kiss

I want this life, yes I do, I want it with everything that is within me, and I would become cross if I saw it was threatened
A whale or a shark might rise up from the sea as I swim and become my enemy, and I may have to battle them
I would, and I have every ability, but I would need my love to know that it would take some energy to do that battle
And I would win, because I have the Creator on my side, and he is in my feet as I kick, and in my arms as I paddle
I am moving across the sea, one stroke at a time, and don't be surprised if I have to struggle some to get there

Just keep your hope strong, my love, and my lover you shall win, with me, in me, for me, breath all that I am
Send myself to you, as I am, not a perfect man, but a good man, not a prefect swimmer, but a swimmer
Determined to join you, to envelope your life to mine, and not willing to let it escape into the depths
Because it is a beautiful thing, and can be created to be such a glorious, inviting thing, I cannot stop swimming
Whatever moves me, whether it is passion, or hope, or faith, or just knowledge that I swim toward some goodness

Once I am there, I may need to rest, but I will recover quickly, then we shall see and experience what we have dreamed
We can smile, and see each other smile, we can touch, and see each other touch, and we can live and see life
For me, there is no turning back, I would not turn back, nor will I turn back, I am committed to the swim
From within myself comes the strength to swim, and the will to swim, and from training, comes the ability to swim
It is not something I thought I would need to do, but it is necessary to life that I do do this thing

So be patient, my love, and watch for me as I swim; I may pause some, and struggle a little, but I am coming
Hand over hand, kicking my feet, it propels me toward who you are, toward what I dream I will find
There are few that find what it is possible for us to find, and if I must come to that shore to find it I will
Because in my mind, I know who I am, and I know that in my heart I am a successful swimmer
I will make it, but sometimes I may need to hear you calling my name.....

Like a person watching as a man endeavor a quest, or attempt some feat of mankind
Call to me, never let me feel empty or unsure, use your voice from the beach to call my name
It may be hard to hear you sometimes, because the ocean will roar, send up spray, and try to prevent communications
But just continue to try, just believe that you have reached out with your voice, and that I have heard you
And in hearing your voice, the strength will come back to me, even if I am exhausted and faltering, it will return

And then, triumphant, I will scoop you into my arms, I will hold you unto my breast and feel your warmth
There will be nothing separating us at that moment, not even an inch of space, not even a millimeter of light
Two people, longing one for the other, let no thing or creature try to get between, let them touch, let them be
For as they be, and touch, and interact, life will glow around them, and the world around them will benefit
Because it will be two of Creation's finest, meeting each other, touching each other's lives, holding, pressing, interacting

And with that combination will come life, it will flow out from them and into the world around, to be seen, heard, felt, touched
What heaven can be found in such a thing as this? It does need to be explored, I must swim to this point
Because there are places the two of us have never been to before, that when combined in each others presence is the only
place it will be found
Whether it is in their touch, or in their passion, or in their words, or in their motives, it will be a beautiful thing
And when they rest, together they shall sleep soundly, peacefully, knowing they have another by their side that is just as
convinced as they

So swimming is good, and I am swimming right now, I am coming her way, and she is calling to me
We are both anxious, so many thoughts, so much anticipation, so much to be gained
For a release is eminent, a culmination of possibilities is before us both, and soon I will reach the shore
Then come to me, my love, don't be shy, come into my arms and let us fly to that place and live
It is my passion to want this, and I see it in you as well, take my hand, I will be who you need, I will have all you want

Just by swimming I'll arrive, just a little more time and I'll cross the sea
Then no more waves, no more barriers, no more fears, no more misunderstandings
Just the reality of the two of us being together, climbing into each other, and seeing what we can find
On the shore, over there where you are, I will come, and I am swimming now
Prepare your heart for me, and I will prepare mine, let us join them when we meet, and enjoy them as we do

Then we shall find life, just you and I... and if the world passes by, we might not even notice...
But it all started when I noticed you, and you noticed me, and I decided to swim over to where you are
I might need a towel to dry off when I get there, and to stand in the sun as I take all of you in at that moment
But I am a man, and a good man, and for most things I can take care of myself
And as I swim, and as I dream of being there with you, I close my eyes and picture how I would take care of you

This is and would be my greatest pleasure, to see you smile

So I jump in... and I swim....

On A Quiet Night
by Telephoneman (composed February 12th, 2008)

There comes a time when we sit alone, listening to the quiet night
It seems like the quiet has a friend named peace, and another friend named calm
Quiet is a humble night, a lovely humble existence all to itself
Sometimes when I am very busy, I long for a piece of that quiet night

Quiet can be many things, and it can have many names
Sometimes quiet is a breeze that blows in through your windows
Other times it is a breeze cascading through the trees
Even a fire can be a quiet thing, as it softly crackles and shimmers in the glow

My soul longs for the quiet space, and I hunt it out it seems every day
A space not like outer space, there isn't any air to breath out there they say
But rather a space where it is so peaceful I could drift off to sleep
Or it would touch my heart and cause a simple single tear to flow down my cheek

I'm sure quiet comes from heaven, because it possesses so much absolute good
As I breathe it in my nose, and exhale it out my mouth, I can feel the quiet in my lungs
It comes in, swirls around inside of me, then rushes out smiling and blessing my lips
It is a good thing, and it gives me a lot of strength to live

Sometimes quiet is a bird in flight, way up in the air
A happy creature with very little care and most likely no anxiety
The wind flows through the bird's feathers, and it lifts the bird's delicate bones
Until softly, the birds lights on the branch of a tree, and sings a quiet song

The quiet can touch your ears and sooth the busy eardrums
It seems to fill the box you are standing in, and encompass the whole of the outdoors
It gives your ears rest; it is like a massage therapist for the sense of hearing
It is soothing like a cool drink on a very hot day

I long for the quiet, I need the quiet, I make it my best friend and my love
It is a place I go to, it is a place I come from, it is a place where I find myself
It is a place where I can find God, and talk to the Creator, quiet is a holy place
It's a place where angels fly, and rainbows shine, and the goodness of life abounds

Away from the chaos of life, from the busy streets, and the rumble of the motor cars
Away from job worries, away from family worries, it is a perfect place of reflection
Quiet is a mirror that you can look into that tells a story about how to live and be wise
Quiet is the very reflection in the mirror, it brings instructions and a lot of good advice

I would give my life to have more of this quiet; I would sell every thing that I own
Just to bask in the glow of the perfect quiet, to let it huddle around me in ebb and flow
I reach out for it, and it is always there to be found, it never hides far off or away
Live in me, quiet, live in my soul, and let me give you as presents to my friends

The Island Flower
by Telephoneman (composed, April 4th, 2006)

Far from here, but yet very close, there is an island where lives my flower
Beautiful Princess, steals me heart, my thoughts, the petals of which I even see in my dreams
Drifting, flowing toward that Pacific retreat, away from the mainland, and toward a light I see
On the island, it shines both day and night, whenever I find the aroma, the scent
It is a sweet smelling fragrance, that takes my mind to another place,
As it drifts in and out of my being, it is like the lilac, or the rose, it captures me

I would be tempted to simply run to the ocean, and jump in the sea, and swim for all that I am worth
Because the flower I see, the flower I have found would be there on that island when I get there
Waves may surround my body, but I would fight them off, nothing could prevent me from pursuing every stroke
First left then right, then left again as my determination would carry me across the whitecaps
Through the timezones, passed the islands where my flower does not live, and merely the beauty
Of that beautiful flower, would be my compass, as at times I might drift and rest, and then continue on

Or perhaps I should sell every possession that I have, yes, for every material thing I would gladly sell
Sell it all so that I could buy a boat that I could row to where my island flower lives
Because the waves would not harm me, in fact I would command them to help
And the winds I would command as well, to help push this boat toward the scent that I can breathe in,
Across this continent of land, over the high, high mountains, toward that place where will find rest for my heart
My heart that needs the savory aroma of this beautiful flower, her touch, her taste, her every life sense

When I get to the island, be it by boat, or by swimming, or by walking on water if I need to learn how,
I have no doubt that the flower will be there on the shore, just inside the waves, just inside the vegetation of that island
Standing, her petals offered so gently out to me, beautiful, gentle, natural, flower, my heart would find it's heal
For several moments I would only be able to stand, heart beating in my chest, warm island sun on my back and arms
Gazing at the flower I had come so far to see, letting her beauty penetrate my eyes, my soul, penetrate my heart
Allowing me to know, with no doubt whatsoever, that my journey was a success

I would only have to whisper, "my flower, come to me" and she would melt at my voice, at the intent of my heart
And I would create for her a garden, a beautiful, beautiful garden to match the aroma that she gives to me
And I would be her gardener, watching over her, watching out for everything she needs, nourishing her soul
That we two would live a long life on the island, together my flower and I, all the days of the rest of our lives
Be it twenty, or thirty, or even fifty more years, let them be lived out on that island with the scent of my flower
I would give everything I have, everything I have ever saved or created in life, to call this flower mine.....

I installed land mines near my apartment, and surrounding where I park my truck so no "crush-types" can get close enough to me to effect the crush-button of life on me... therefore, statistically speaking, I am in full non-crush mode...

squirm, yummy, weeble weeble, woop... worp wee wittle weep weep...

Had a crush once... but then she crushed me (my heart...), so is that like a double negative "not crushing" if you purposefully avoid the entire dating thing altogether now?

Sort of like mutiplication...

-1 X -1 X -1 = -1

Therefore, not crushing...

(maybe I should look in the back of the book for the answer...?)

(I'm so confused...)