A really great trick indeed!

2OLD2MESSAROUND,

Your last post is in total compliance with what I thought you would do next! CONGRATULATIONS!!! I hope you feel much better and I also suggest you spend the rest of the week looking out for what additional negative things you can find on the web on Nigeria. That DOES NOT change anything - in reality.

I understand that you are probably one of those who just search without end, on the internet for negative things.....and sure, you will get them without end...whether on Nigeria or ...on America...or whatever country. The propaganda is what some people live on...and it is understandable...people have to find a way to survive or gain recognition...or feel good on the inside that they are doing something...you know....it is perfectly normal!

Anyway, the subject matter of this thread is not exactly Nigeria. But all the same I hope that one day you will have the fortune of visiting Nigeria...and have the chance to meet Bible believing/practicing Christians; they will shower you with so much love, in spite of yourself, that you might cry with embarrassment. They will lovingly explain to you that God so loved the world that HE gave HIS only Son - JESUS CHRIST...who died and rose again from the dead and is alive again to save and deliver...and that HE is the way, the truth and the life (BIBLE).

You know what??? All of us will freak out one day ...when we face the CREATOR and discover that our sinful jokes about HIM and our disrespect (if we have indulged in them)for HIM can't help us in any way...that moment will come some day! It will also be a moment when ALL truth will come to our consciousness....a moment to be judged by the Creator and it will be too late to undo what we would have wanted to undo!!!

2OLD2MESSAROUND,

I actually feel so amused by your misconceptions about me and my country that I feel compelled to send you this bit: Really, I have seen some people like you (I mean with all the wrong propaganda in their thoughts...imaginations...daily dreams...etc about Nigeria) come into Nigeria as internationals in Development organizations and after two or three years, when it is time to go, they cry 9no kidding) and talk about all the warmth and hospitality and friendliness that they will miss. Some even desperately look for all available options to be able to stay.

One guy landed at the Abuja airport in Nigeria and could not believe his eyes....and kept talking and talking to people about his wrong perceptions and utter shock!

I should invite you to Nigeria one of these days...you will probably faint when you discover you have been terribly deceived by negative propaganda!

Dear 2old2messaround,

IF WRITING THESE KINDS OF THINGS YOU WRITE GIVES YOU PLEASURE - PLEASE BY ALL MEANS, CONTINUE TO WRITE THEM, SO THAT YOU CAN DERIVE YOUR PLEASURE. AT THE END OF THE ROAD OF LIFE, EVERYONE OF US WILL ACCOUNT TO THE ALMIGHTY GOD FOR EVERY WORD, DEED, ACTION.

YOU PROBABLY MEAN TO INSULT AND DEMEAN AND HUMILIATE WITH YOUR WORDS...BUT SORRY, YOU GOT THE WRONG PERSON. I AM VERY PROUD OF MY GOD. I AM ALSO VERY PROUD OF THE COUNTRY THAT HE (MY GOD) PUT ME IN!

HAVE A VERY PLEASANT DAY.

IF WRITING THESE KINDS OF THINGS GIVES YOU PLEASURE - PLEASE BY ALL MEANS, CONTINUE TO WRITE THEM, SO THAT YOU CAN DERIVE YOUR PLEASURE. AT THE END OF THE ROAD OF LIFE, EVERYONE OF US WILL ACCOUNT TO THE ALMIGHTY GOD FOR EVERY WORD, DEED, ACTION.

YOU PROBABLY MEAN TO INSULT AND DEMEAN AND HUMILIATE WITH YOUR WORDS...BUT SORRY, YOU GOT THE WRONG PERSON. I AM VERY PROUD OF MY GOD. I AM ALSO VERY PROUD OF THE COUNTRY THAT HE (MY GOD) PUT ME IN!

HAVE A VERY PLEASANT DAY.

2old2omessaround,

Thanks for throwing more light on your name!

I am not in any way offended by your statements. Neither do I feel put down. The expression of your opinion is your right!

What attracted my attention in the data you shared was the term that I commented on as in my sentence - "But I noticed the constant reference in the information to "unsafe abortion" ".

I do have a right to express myself too and it should not become a source of anger to you!

As a Social Development worker, I know clearly the meaning attached to safe and unsafe abortion. The reason the data you could easily lay hold of, is that of unsafe abortion is because safe abortion is deemed to be okay and usually people do not bother about that. As a matter of fact, one core reason (in the social development world) why people have pushed for the legitimization of abortion, is that by popular opinion, legitimacy reduces the chances of unsafe abortion taking place - it is argued that if abortion is legitimate, people can do it in hospitals and safe places without necessarily having to hide and do it in unsafe places that claim the lives of the mothers.

But my expression is that as a Christian, who believes that JESUS CHRIST is the way, the truth and the life ...that the BIBLE is God's word and also that obedience to God is the manifestation of my faith in HIM, I can only take a stand that is in line with the BIBLE. For me, my human reasoning, anger, disgust and emotions are not the determinant factor in my position on this. The BIBLE says not to take innocent life (whether it is a baby's or an adult's)and anything that contradicts that, is to me, a SIN. So whether abortion is safe or unsafe, abortion is sin - so long as it is the taking away of innocent life, including babies/children who are products of rape. The baby/child committed no crime! My position is based on the BIBLE and not my personal feelings. Following God is not necessarily about feeling good! It is about obedience to HIM and HIS instructions, whatever the price!

oops...you said to stop the quotes...sorry about this!!!!

My understanding about the community here is that it is a multi-religious community. My position about abortion is completely connected with my faith and that I think I have the right to express here. For me, taking innocent life is unbiblical, whether it is the life of an adult or it is the life of an unborn child. As a Christian, I do not rationalize on whatever the Bible is clear upon. Sorry, if this offends you!

Thanks to those who have made an effort in providing us with some form of data.

But I noticed the constant reference in the information to "unsafe abortion".

I think the subject of this discourse is about deliberate abortion in general - whether safe or unsafe.

And I say as a Bible believing/practicing Christian (based on Bible), that deliberate abortion is sin - whether done safely or unsafely. Taking the life of an innocent baby is sin. The baby has life just like you and I.

This position does not deny the trauma that a rape victim goes through. But for me, taking a stand for God's will is not necessarily bread and butter.

Many mistranslations there be these days...to turn men's hearts away from truth.

So...sad!!!

I don't quite catch what the issues are in the mails about 'Child Protection Services' and 'possession' and 'object'. But as someone who works in the scope of Child Protection (as a component of Social Development work), may I take the liberty to think that the use of 'possession' here means custody? Child custody is the professional term. It means legitimacy to keep and take care of the child for the welfare of that child.

Biological parents have inherent powers to also take custody of their children unless they are found not to be capable of doing so...in which case the welfare systems put in place in a given country could follow a process approved by law, to find alternative care/custody for such children. This is where the Child Protection Services get involved in most countries (I am not being Texas specific because I don't live in Texas and do not know their specific laws about child custody). It could involve getting the child into the custody of an orphanage or a shelter or foster care pending when adoption process could conclude...if adoption is appropriate in the given circumstance.

Again when, adoption process concludes, the adopted parents also receive legitimate custody of the adopted child and step into the child's life in the same way that the child's biological parents would have been.

For the case study in issue, the biological parent would need to elect the option of giving out the baby for adoption. Sometimes, the baby does not need to pass any time in an orphanage or shelter before actual adoption happens - if processes for adoption were already ongoing through the period of pregnancy. Every country has its own stipulated process backed up by law.

And as for the use of the word, 'object', please it is critical that we do NOT refer to an un-born child as an object. The baby in the womb has life and that makes that baby in the womb a 'he' or 'her'; CERTAINLY NOT AN OBJECT!

I hope this does not offend!

Thanks for reminding all of us (those who read this post) of these things.

May the LORD's grace and mercy help all of us who have already known the LORD to finish strong...and to help those who do not yet know HIM to find HIM. Amen!

In reality rape is horrific! It denies a woman of her very dignity and self esteem and leaves indescribable emotional pain and agony and sometimes a society of adults who make things worse for the victim could even make everything much more worse.

Still it is important to know that the baby is innocent and DID NOT participate in the crime of rape. We do not give life - only God gives life. It is wrong to take away the life of the innocent. The baby is innocent and deserves life just like everyone of us.

Hey, Toks, have you read the book, "Finishing Strong"? It is a great book! Look for it in a Christian bookshop and read it - recommended.

Your post reminds me of a story I heard from a pastor;...about a believer in Jesus Christ who was slapped and some persons around him, urged him to return the slap. But he repeatedly said to them, "you don't understand...my hands have been tied...I cannot return the slap", because of Jesus!

And yes, many believers still serve prison terms today for their faith - just like Paul in his days. But we all pray for grace...that wherever we are...whatever the condition, we should NEVER deny CHRIST. Amen!!!

Dear 2OLD2ME SSAREOUND,

Hello and very nice to meet you here.

I read your comments about Nigeria and I want to tell you in all sincerity, that there is huge negative media propaganda, which is not totally true.

In every country, there are good and bad things - I know this because I have also involved in international travels. The right way to paint a true picture of what a coin really is would be to show that it has two sides. Nigeria is a wonderful and a great country with plenty of good and warm people. Like every other country, there would also be bad people. But that would not mean placing a black card on the country as a whole.

Please erase the picture of only darkness about Nigeria. Also, it is not true that the government of Nigeria has silently approved book haram. By government I believe you mean the authorities in charge.

Thank you

Hello, everyone here. This is my very first posting here and I hope it doesn't offend anyone. This is such a tough topic, considering the background of the case study.

I couldn't help the tears that formed in my eyes, just reading through the comments from yellowrose. I have never been raped but have escaped at least one rape attempt and I shake with emotion whenever I think about the brutality of rape! As a lawyer, I have in the past helped child rape victims to pick up the pieces (in the way that I could provide support then). At a time I did push through until 3 gang rapists got convicted and went to jail. Today, the girl who was the victim of the gang rape (15 years then) has since picked up the pieces of her life together through unflinching support and counseling. She is currently in her last year in the university!

I have also spent time in the past with a victim of rape who had a baby as a result of the rape. In fact, in her own case, it turned out worse than you can imagine because she had to marry the rapist - her father would not have his daughter have a baby without a father and both the rapist's family and the victim's family compelled both of them to marry as a result of the rape and the pregnancy.

I met the woman while she was literarily going through 'hell' in the matrimonial home that emanated from the rape and the pregnancy! I had it tough enough trying to help! Not to talk about what she herself went through!!!

I have done all this writing so that someone can at least know that I am not completely na�ve about how bad rape is and how much worse is the trauma of the rape victim. Today, as a social development worker, one of the things I push against daily is rape, especially child rape. So it is tough for me as well.

However, for me (I talk from the perspective of a Bible believing, Bible practicing Christian), a girl or woman who falls victim of rape and gets pregnant as a result should not be encouraged to abort the baby. Why? The baby is innocent! The baby has no hand in the wicked brutality that produced the baby! The baby has a right to life as much as anyone of us! To cut that baby's life off would not be the best way to handle it. The adults/society around the victim have a duty to provide the right support that could provide the shoulders to lean upon. And this is part of what I engage in, in my social development work. There are many options - like giving the baby up for adoption, if the victim so wishes. I know that most victims, if they get the right support, do NOT want to kill their babies.

But for me, most important of all is the position of the Bible about taking life. I would not encourage anyone to take any baby's life for any reasons. Biblically, it is sin to take anyone's life - including that of a baby.

Thank you to those who have read my comments without getting angry.

Yellowrose, you are a hero for having undergone rape and having pushed through to have your baby! I wish you lived around me - I would have found a way to get you involved in the social development work that I do; because as the Bible has expressed, having experienced the pain/trauma you can comfort others as well as give a shoulder to lean on - better than anyone else. Keeping the faith (Bible) is not necessarily easy task! God bless you.

Hi,Klys10. Nice to meet you here.

Actually, I think it is critical to also understand that Biblically, it is impossible to acceptably love God outside of JESUS CHRIST. In the new Testament dispensation, the starting point is to be born again. Only the Spirit of God in our lives can help us love God the way we should. I think it is also important to rightly place works and faith and to know that both go together. Works - no matter how good or great CANNOT save. Nevertheless, when we have JESUS in our lives, we are supposed to manifest the fruit of the Spirit in evidence of the presence of JESUS CHRIST in our lives. The Bible says the fruit of the Spirit includes...love...joy....peace, gentleness...faithfulness...self-control.

I think I typed out my last reply in the wrong place. I am retyping/reposting again separately:

"Thanks for your input. Just to add that I did not get into a state of doubt. Maybe it is the way I expressed myself that gave you that impression. The impact was more or less my engagement in self-examination; rather than doubt. Self examination, for me, is something I do constantly as a Christian - on the scale of God's word and God's will, of course."