I know I have received the grace of God. I have been lifted from the jaws of death many times in my life, and I have seen the light of Love and compassion. This is my personal relationship with God we are talking about and it is nobody's business but mine. Save yourself.

I fully agree with what you are saying Shinning Armour.

However, there are arrogant proselytizers on these forums who are attempting to accuse other people of "rejecting God" etc, if they refuse to cower down to their particular views.

Those are typically the unruly people that I renounce.

Other people just get caught in the 'crossfire' of those conversations.

I truly do not care if someone wants to believe in Christianity for themselves. That's cool.

But we have proselytizers on here who won't rest until everyone agrees with their views PRECISELY.

It has nothing to do with any God.

These are strictly egos who love to argue pretending that God is on "their side".

This way they have convinced themselves that they can't lose, and they can't be wrong.

How could they be wrong? They have God on THEIR SIDE!

But it's precisely that kind of mentality that make these "jealous-god" religions dangerous.

Surely even you can recognize that it's only the Abrahamic religions that are based on a "jealous-god" concept?

No other religions that I'm aware of are based on jealous Gods who will hate everyone who refuses to believe in them.

And surely atheism isn't based on a "jealous god" concept either.

The only place we ever see the "jealous god" syndrome is in the Abrahamic religions, and it seems to have become an extreme obsession for self-appointed Protestant "Paper Popes" who LOVE to use it to accuse everyone who rejects it as having "Rejected God".

What more powerful prop for an ego can you find than to prop yourself up by claiming that you SERVE the one and only jealous God of the universe, and everyone who disagrees with YOU is necessarily disagreeing with GOD HIMSELF!

That's what we're up against here ShinningArmour. Not any actual religion or god, just the Paper Popes who love to use the religion to boast that they hold the absolute truth and if you refuse to agree with them GOD himself will HATE YOU!

Where is there anything positive in any of that?

"Blind faith if it is not allowed to be questioned becomes religion."
Some would say the same thing about evolutionism.

I see absolutely nothing wrong with you choosing to live your life by "The Book". Hopefully, that serves you well. I would never even dream of suggesting that you should live your life otherwise.

I understand that you personally have no hatred towards me. Actually that would be impossible anyway because you don't truly know me. But unfortunately the Abrahamic religions in general do have a tendency to spread brotherly hatred in the name of "God" and in form of religious bigotries. Protestant Christian Fundamentalists are probably the greatest spreaders of such hate, and they do it in the name of Jesus as the "Almighty Christ".

I see no value in that whatsoever.

They are the ones who stir discord among their brethren by refusing to acknowledge the spiritual essence of anyone who refuses to suck up to their specific interpretations of a specific dogma.

It's truly not about "God" or "Jesus", it's all about using God and Jesus as an excuse to spread hatred and bigotry in their names.

I have no sympathy for hardcore religious proselytizers of any religion. They have nothing to do with any god. Usually they are just egotists who are addicted to the "power trip" of pretending that they speak for God, and thus they cannot be wrong.

What greater BOOST for the ego can a person possibly find, than to convince themselves that they hold the TRUTH of God and that God himself has not only given them permission to speak on his behalf, but has even actually commanded that they do so!

That's the ultimate ego trip. "I am a servant of the Lord".

Yeah right.

I used to love Choose Your Own Adventure, I also had a bunch of the Dungeons and Dragons Endless Quest books, which were like Choose Your Own Adv but based on D&D.

I think evolutionists have blind faith in a man who spent his life with turtles.

Where do you get that from?

Where did I ever say that I do anything "wrong", or that I would even condone anyone doing something wrong?

Sounds to me like you're jumping to some really wild conclusions that have absolutely nothing at all to do with me.

A person doesn't need to believe in Christianity or Jesus in order to know right from wrong.



Disciplines?

I disagree.

IMHO, a good father would teach a child discipline. You can't "discipline" a child. If you think you can you are sadly mistaken.

You can "punish" a child if you want, but if you do, that's only a reflection of your own ineptitude as a mentor. If a child is so unruly to be unwilling to learn, they are most likely in dire need of psychological help, not punishment.

So the idea of a God who mentors via punishment, or threats of punishment, is an idea of a God who is truly unwise and unintelligent, IMHO.

Add to that the idea of a God who would threaten "everlasting punishment" to his children if they disobey him and you reduce God to having no more common sense than a barroom drunkard. Not to mention that such a God would have clearly given up on his own ability to properly mentor his children.

All you have left in that case is a God who is taking out his own frustrations over his own ineptitude as a mentor, on his children.

That would be a God who is both inept, and an extremely abusive parent.



I don't feel any animosity toward the creator of life if that's what you mean.

But I do have a lot of questions for Her should I even have the pleasure of meeting Her face-to-face.



Judged for disbelief in God?

How could disbelief be considered "disobedience"?

If the child is unconvinced that the parent even exists, that can only be gross ineptitude on the part of the parent. Especially in a scenario where the parent is supposedly omnipotent and can do anything to make him or herself known to the child and fails to do so. The child, being grossly limited in their ability to verify the existence of a God could not be expects to believe in one, and it would be utterly insane to consider their disbelief as "disobedience".

Any mythology of gods that claims that it's considered "disobedience" to not believe in their God should be highly suspect as being nothing more than man-made propaganda to brainwash people into worshiping their mythology over anyone Else's mythology. I wouldn't trust any authors who make such a claim further than I can spit.



Well, now your asking me to read a mythology that not only claims the existence of a God but it also claims the existence of evil boogieman who is out to get everyone if they don't turn to the mythological God to be "saved" from the boogieman.

So does this mythology claim that there are then TWO Gods? One that is "good" and one that is "bad"?

No, of course it doesn't. I've already read the story.

No, the boogieman in this mythology has absolutely NO POWER of his own.

He's not a "god", he's just a pathetically stupid fallen angel who has NO POWER of his own, yet the supposedly "Good God" allows him to wreck havoc with his children.

Tell me, if you were a parent, would you unleash a boogieman on your children and give him YOUR POWER to do EVIL THINGS to your children and to get your children to do evil things?

I personally wouldn't think very highly of you if you did that to your children. I know I wouldn't do it to mine.

Yet, you expect me to believe in a mythology that claims that our "Heavenly Father" is doing precisely that to us?

Why would you accept a mythology that claims that our creator is such a nasty untrustworthy parent?

We'd be better of if atheism were true!



With all due respect there is nothing "cool" about the God described by the mythology that you are referring to.

I would not want to be a friend of that "God".

That would be like befriending Hitler and supporting his views just to avoid his wrath.

Hitler had it in his mind that he would cast all the undesirable people into a fiery furnace and keep only the people he approves of to breed a super race of superior humans.

Well, I hate to tell you this, but the biblical mythology of a God isn't all that much different. That God is portrayed as wanting to cast all the undesirable people into a fiery furnace and keep only the people he approves of as his pets.

Where's the difference?

The only difference is that Hitler was not the "all-powerful" creator of the universe, so everyone thinks that he had no "right" to play with humans that way.

But since "God" is the creator of the universe, it's ok for him to play with his human pets that way because, after all, he created them and they are his to do with as he likes.

In other words, if Hitler had actually created humans, then his decisions and actions would be totally justified.

I see no reason to believe in the Hebrew mythologies of god.

The characters that they place onto God are simply not "godly" IMHO.

The stories are riddled with contradictions, absurdities, and outright injustices (like condemning people for simply not believing in the stories) That's a totally absurd notion right there, IMHO.

Moreover, there are FAR BETTER spiritual pictures and philosophies available.

There exist pictures of a spiritual "God" that are far better that the stories the ancient Hebrews have written. Pictures that make far better sense in terms of wisdom and intelligence as well.

So why CHOOSE on PURE FAITH a lame picture of God?

If you're going to do this on PURE FAITH, why not CHOOSE an intelligent picture of a truly wise and righteous God?

Why belittle God, by choosing to place your faith in a story that belittles God?

If you child never saw you face to face, and after many years you finally met your child and she showed you a portrait of criminal and said, "Hey daddy, I thought this was you!"

Would you be impressed by that? I think not.

You'd probably be far more impressed if your child had "believed" that you are a decent nice person instead.

So, yes, if I want to insult God, I can choose to believe in the Hebrew picture of God too.

But why would I want to insult God?

There are better spiritual pictures of gods to be had. Why not choose one of them. Surely any real God is not going to be upset with my because I thought he was BETTER than he truly is!

What's he going to do? Scream at me yelling, "No you fool! I'm nowhere near that nice! You're going to hell for thinking that I was actually NICE!"

What kind of a "God" would do such a thing to an innocent sincere child who was only trying to find the best possible picture to show their daddy?

In order for me to believe in the Biblical picture of God, I'd need to believe that God is the most heartless uncaring entity possible.

Nope, I'm not going to insult God by suggesting that I thought She was a mean old judgmental male-chauvinist pig who is chomping at the bit to cast people into hell for merely not believing that God could be such a heartless jerk.

Nope, I'm not going to insult God by doing that.

If you want to do that, that's your choice.

Who knows, maybe God truly is a jerk and he'll be pleased that you accepted that and he'll cast me into eternal damnation for thinking he was better than that.

Anything's possible.

Even atheism, which sounds better than the biblical picture to me.

Hey, didn't anyone get the memo? I AM JESUS CHRIST! I am on vacation becasue there is nothing to do in Heaven. I needed Beer, Broads, and Blunts! I could have visited Uncle Nick but dad is all bent at him still so I am not allowed there. Nick is however visiting me at a titty bar in Vegas like a couple of people here said but no Elvis is still in heaven and dad likes it when he performs Burning Love for him.

Nick does not want your sympathy. Just buy him a beer and he will be happy with you.



Oh God that pic brings back memories! That was one hell of a Halloween party! People assumed I was casting him back to hell. You fools are so wrong. Uncle Nick had a hot date (he said it was in Pompeii) so I was wishing him a good trip.

Shinning armor writes:

Imagine that you die, and you find yourself being questioned by your creator. You innately know that it is your creator speaking to you, and you also innately feel that the questions have no right or wrong answers. You innately know that you are not being judged. The creator is simply curious to know your thoughts on the following two questions. It's like a survey. There are no right or wrong answers. The creator is sincerely interested in hearing your genuine views, nothing more.

Your creator asks the following two questions:


Question #1: What did you enjoy the most about your experience of life?


Question #2: If you could suggest one thing that you feel could have improved your life's experience what would you suggest?

Oh, by the way. I've been ready to meet my maker since the day I was born. So if your suggesting that some "Christ" is the creator, then yes, I've always been ready.

Unless you're trying to claim that there's some reason I shouldn't trust this so-called "Christ" to be a reasonable righteous entity?

Are you suggesting that the "Christ" is going to be a nasty tyrant who will be hateful and mean toward people for no good reason?

Unless that's what you are suggesting, why would you think that someone might not be ready to meet this "Christ"?

What are you doing? Trying to spread fear in the name of the "Christ"?

Why should anyone fear the "return" of the "Christ"? From what I hear he's far more loving and forgiving than any mortal human who has ever lived!

Well, gee whiz, I wouldn't have any fear if my Aunt Murdel came back to save the world, so why should I fear the "Christ"?

Are you attempting to suggest that the "Christ" is an unrighteous bully who can't be trusted to even be as nice as much as my Aunt Murdel?

As long as the "Christ" is as nice as my Aunt Murdel, I'm sure we'll be just fine. And if he's not as nice, then I guess my Aunt Murdel surpasses the "Christ" in terms of love, righteousness and forgiveness.

Maybe we should all pray that my Aunt Murdel comes back since you don't trust the "Christ" to be as nice.

Personally I think your mistrust in the "Christ" to be righteous is grossly misplaced paranoia. I've read the rumors about the "Christ" myself, and I see nothing to fear in them. He sounds like a pretty nice guy to me.

So cheer up and try to think a bit optimistically. Think of the most loving forgiving mortal human you've ever met and TRUST that the "Christ" will be even more loving and forgiving than them!

Hope this helps

Obama is no joke. HE WON the presidential election. He graduated magna cum laude from Harvard Law. He has an intelligent wife and beautiful family that (as far as anyone knows so far) he manages to actually be a FAITHFUL spouse and father to. ,,,,,,takes more than just some random idiot to do all that,,,regardless what people wish to label him,,,,

Alright, lets get the semantics out of the way.

http://wilstar.com/theories.htm

I didn't sign on to teach a class on evolution. You guys are either lack the educational background (this is not an insult) to understand what I'm talking about or you are being deliberately obtuse.

If any of you are truly interested in learning why evolution is the best game in town you can watch a series of videos called "Growing Up in the Universe." You can find them free on you tube.

I have always been the type of person that accepts nothing at face value. I question everything and look at the opposite point of view before deciding which side I land on.

I didn't believe evolution in the beginning either. But, the more I learned about it the harder it was for me to deny it.

I am a seeker of truth. I want to understand the truth even if it means everything I thought I knew is wrong. I am hunger for knowledge. You may find the videos above dull, but I LOVED watching them. I'd rather watch that kind of thing than anything else I can think of.

Depends on the author and the book. I enjoy some series, even without playing the series, and then there's others that just irritate me no end. I've never had many problems with Forgotten Realms, but haven't tried Baldur's Gate.

I do want to get into the HALO books, but could care less about the video games. The soundtracks are good though!

I'm not trying to change your faith. I'm simply pointing out that Jesus said things about the end of the world that didn't come to pass within the time frame he said. Does that mean everything he said is BS? No. The bible makes more sense if you acknowledge these inconsistencies.

In order to understand what the bible truly means, you must put the words in their historical context. This is what biblical scholarship is all about.

Why, for example, does the bible forbid wearing two different kinds fabrics of clothes at the same time? Or eating shellfish? Or, for that matter, homosexuality? To understand you have to put it in historical context. It could be there were issues at the time that made these thing a good idea, but things may be different today.

I also understand that just because something didn't happen doesn't mean the stories aren't true. Meaning the stories contain truths that may help people to live a better life.

What I said about lacking the educational background refers to the ones that don't understand what a scientific theory is. How can I make any kind of point when the meaning of the words I use is called into question?

Lastly, using the quote button makes it easier for others to read and understand.