your thick headed, and for some that might be attractive, but the issues on which the thickness prevails makes you seem like you have no honest clue about what you are doing or saying, almost as a reach out and cry for help...... do you need to see our mental health providers or are you just faking it?

seriously, what do you think we are possibly doing to this country that would even compare it to the days after world war II when a hell of a lot more men died, and even more had mental issues (that oh by the way most were able to handle- without the aid of medicine and people like yourself)

Get over yourself already, you aint trying to save or help anyone, all you are attemptig to do is.... what exactly? bash on something that a lot of people are bashing on too? Are you this generations new make love not war hippie freak- give it a rest lady.


Your insults are not nessary. Maybe you need to read the forum rules again.

Maybe that is the way your military did it but when I was with my kids dad he often and still does work 6 days a week and only gets 10-14 days off at christams ONLY. He was not allowed to attened his girls surgery when she was 4yr old. When I was pregnant with our son they would not let him go to Doc appts until I was hospitalized then they let him off from work cause someone had to take care of our girl.

I am a college student going to be a nurse w/ BSN degree. The places I will work in do not run like that people are people and treated as people this is not a new thing it is actualy a very old world view.

My kids dad was deployed 10 months out of the first year he was on his ship. Majority of the military is not treated as people but robots.

Military moto is we issued you everything you needed at bootcamp and that didn't include a family. The military always comes first and never the family. Yes there is support for family but there is very little they can do for you. If you want I can ask the kids dad how many times in the last 8 yrs he applied for leave only to have it rejected. Currently on his books he has 56 days of leave to take and his use or lose is 13.5 cause he is never allowed to take leave.

The problem with deployment is not also how often a group of men are sent out. Groups go by Companys and then differantient into groups with in groups. Take a man I met through his wife it was 2005 he had already been to Iraq 4 times and was about to go again and he had picked orders cause he was up to pick and was going for his 5th time. Once he got done with his new trip and came home to move his family to their new duty station and would be deploying right out again with his new company.

The military never takes a individual into account. From what I know of this family they are no longer a family the stress was to much for them to take.

Military men are nothing more then a number to the government and there families are nothing more then a number tacked on to another number.

I support our men and women with their families but I do not support a government who refuses to see people as people.

You are only scratching the surface of what the war has done to America. You can call me whatever you want it just goes to show your own ignorance. I know a whole lot more then you freaking know about the war and some of the secret operations that have gone on that you will never know. I have seen the good and the bad of it all, till I was so sick of it. It was my life for a long time. YOu can look at the numbers all you want that is all they are numbers.

Sheep

This is not the subject at hand.

We don't have enough troops anymore because of these wars and the rapat deployments. I know of many men who have left the military not just army every branch because of the war. The ARMY has tried to entice other branches to leave and go ARMY for money cause they have no one hardly left.

What is wrong with a post leting people know what happens to OUR military families!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I reposted it!!!!!!!!!! I was a military wife for over 5yrs and that had to be in the time of these wars and had 2 kids. If you can not be american enough to think about what happens to the families and men and women involved then just ignore it instead of insulting US!!!!!!!!!!!! If anyone else has anything to say to this email me!!!!!!!!!!!

As the Army Approaches a Breaking Point
By Maggie Mahar
Health Beat

February 25, 2008

Since 9/11, one Army division has spent more time in Iraq than any other group of soldiers: the 10th Mountain Division, based at Fort Drum, New York.

Over the past 6 years and and six months, their 2nd Brigade Combat Team (BCT) has been the most deployed brigade in the army. As of this month, the brigade had completed its fourth tour of Iraq. All in all, the soldiers of BCT have spent 40 months in Iraq.

At what cost? According to a February 13 report issued by the Veterans for America's (VFA) Wounded Warrior Outreach Program, which is dedicated to strengthening the military mental health system, it is not just their bodies that have been maimed and, in some cases, destroyed. Many of these soldiers are suffering from severe mental health problems that have led to suicide attempts as well as spousal abuse and alcoholism.

Meanwhile, the soldiers of the 2nd BCT have been given too little time off in between deployments: In one case they had only six months to mentally "re-set"; following an eight-month tour in Afghanistan - before beginning a 12-month tour in Iraq.

Then, in April 2007, Secretary of Defense Robert Gates decided to extend Army tours in Iraq from 12 to 15 months - shortly after the BCT had passed what it assumed was its halfway mark in Iraq.

As the VFA report points out, "Mental health experts have explained that 'shifting the goalposts' on a soldier's deployment period greatly contributes to an increase in mental health problems."

Perhaps it should not come as a surprise that, during its most recent deployment, the 2nd BCT suffered heavy casualties. "Fifty-two members of the 2nd BCT were killed in action (KIA)," the VFA reports and "270 others were listed as non-fatality casualties, while two members of the unit remain missing in action (MIA)."

This level of losses is unusual. "On their most recent deployment," the VFA report notes, "members of the 2nd BCT were more than five times as likely to be killed as others who have been deployed to OEF and OIF and more than four times likely to be wounded." One can only wonder to what degree depression and other mental health problems made them more vulnerable to attack.

When they finally returned to Fort Drum, these soldiers faced winter conditions that the report describes as "dreary, with snow piled high and spring still months away. More than a dozen soldiers reported low morale, frequent DUI arrests, and rising AWOL, spousal abuse, and rates of attempted suicide. Soldiers also reported that given the financial realities of the Army, some of their fellow soldiers had to resort to taking second jobs such as delivering pizzas to supplement their family income."

What has the army done to help the soldiers at Fort Drum? Too little.

In recent months, VFA reports, it has been contacted by a number of soldiers based at Fort Drum who are concerned about their own mental health and the health of other members of their units. In response, VFA launched an investigation of conditions at Fort Drum, and what it found was shocking.

Soldiers told the VFA that "the leader of the mental health treatment clinic at Fort Drum asked soldiers not to discuss their mental health problems with people outside the base. Attempts to keep matters 'in house' foster an atmosphere of secrecy and shame," the report observed "that is not conducive to proper treatment for combat-related mental health injuries."

The investigators also discovered that "some military mental health providers have argued that a number of soldiers fake mental health injuries to increase the likelihood that they will be deemed unfit for combat and/or for further military service."

The report notes that a "conversation with a leading expert in treating combat psychological wounds" confirmed "that some military commanders at Fort Drum doubt the validity of mental health wounds in some soldiers, thereby undermining treatment prescribed by civilian psychiatrists" at the nearby Samaritan Medical Center in Watertown, NY.

"In the estimation of this expert, military commanders have undue influence in the treatment of soldiers with psychological wounds," the report noted. "Another point of general concern for VFA is that Samaritan also has a strong financial incentive to maintain business ties with Fort Drum - a dynamic [that] deserves greater scrutiny."

Because some soldiers do not trust Samaritan, the report reveals that a number of "soldiers have sought treatment after normal base business hours at a hospital in Syracuse, more than an hour's drive from Watertown ... because they feared that Samaritan would side with base leadership, which had, in some cases, cast doubt on the legitimacy of combat-related mental health wounds.

"In one case," the report continued, "after a suicidal soldier was taken to a Syracuse hospital, he was treated there for a week, indicating that his mental health concerns were legitimate. Unfortunately, mental health officials at Fort Drum had stated that they did not believe this soldier's problems were bona fide."

According to the VFA, the problem of military doctors refusing to back soldiers with mental health problems is widespread: "VFA's work across the country has confirmed that soldiers often need their doctors to be stronger advocates for improved treatment by their commanders and comrades. For instance, soldiers need doctors who are willing to push back against commanders who doubt the legitimacy of combat-related mental health injuries."

While talking to soldiers at Fort Drum, VFA also discovered "considerable stigma against mental health treatment within the military and pressure within some units to deny mental health problems as a result of combat.

Some soldiers who had been in the military for more than a decade stated that they lied on mental health questionnaires for fear that if they disclosed problems, it would reduce their likelihood of being promoted."

Soldiers at Fort Drum are not alone. In an earlier report titled "Trends in Treatment of America's Wounded Warriors" VFA disclosed that leaders of the military mental health treatment system have been warning Department of Defense leadership of the magnitude of the mental health crisis that is brewing.

A report by the Army's Mental Health Advisory Team (MHAT) that was released last May found that the percentage of soldiers suffering "severe stress, emotional, alcohol or family problem[s]" had risen more than 85 percent since the beginning of Operation Iraqi Freedom. MHAT also found that 28 percent of soldiers who had experienced high-intensity combat were screening positive for acute stress (i.e., Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder, PTSD).

Finally, MHAT disclosed that soldiers who had been deployed more than once were 60 percent more likely to screen positive for acute stress (i.e., PTSD) when compared to soldiers on their first deployment.

VFA's most recent report notes points out that, despite these warnings, soldiers at Fort Drum do not have access to the care they need: "More than six years after large-scale military operations began in Afghanistan and, later, in Iraq, a casual observer might assume that programs would have been implemented to ensure access for Soldiers from the 10th Mountain Division to mental health services on base. Unfortunately, an investigation by VFA has revealed that [soldiers] who recently returned from Iraq must wait for up to two months before a single appointment can be scheduled ...

"Given the great amount of public attention that has been focused on the psychological needs of returning service members, a casual observer might also assume that these needs would have been given a higher priority by Army leaders and the National Command Authority - the two entities with the greatest responsibility for ensuring the strength of our Armed Forces. These needs have long been acknowledged but," the report concludes " there has been insufficient action."

Last month the army tried putting a band-aid on the problems at Fort Drum by sending three Army psychiatrists from Walter Reed Army Medical Center (WRAMC) to the Fort D on a temporary basis to treat the large influx of returning soldiers requiring mental health care. But, as the VFA points out, "this is only a temporary fix", as the Walter Reed-based psychiatrists will likely return to Washington, DC, within a few weeks.

Fort Drum will again be left with the task of treating thousands of soldiers with far too few mental health specialists. In addition, for those service members who were initially treated by psychiatrists from Walter Reed, their care will suffer from discontinuity, as their cases will be assigned a new mental health professional on subsequent visits."

And the war drags on. Earlier this month, the UK Times reported that "the conservative Washington think tank that devised the "surge" of US forces in Iraq [the American Enterprise Institute] now has come up with a plan to send 12,000 more American troops into southern Afghanistan.

A panel of more than 20 experts convened by the (AEI) has also urged the administration to get tough with Pakistan. "The US should threaten to attack Taliban and Al-Qaeda fighters in lawless areas on the border with Afghanistan if the Pakistan military did not deal with them itself, the panel concluded."

Where do conservatives expect to find those troops?

More soldiers are likely to suffer the fate of the soldiers at Fort Drum. They will be sent back to combat, again and again - until finally, they break. Soldiers suffering from post-traumatic stress syndrome, depression or a host of other mental problems are not in a good position to protect themselves. Sending them back only guarantees that fatalities will rise.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Maggie Mahar is a fellow at The Century Foundation and the author of Money-Driven Medicine: The Real Reason Health Care Costs So Much (Harper/Collins 2006).

Just busy as hell like always with my schooling.

Hey daddy BOO

Alrighty I am out of here going to bed good night have fun chating

Has anyone gone to see the new movie The Eye??????? What did you think of it????

hahaha what can't we talk about is more like it lmao

Yes I understand your point and it is your choice and life to live as you please. more power to ya.

yes I understand your point. It is just a person on a bike has less protection around them to protect from inpact. With a car you have a metal cage around you to help for protection that is why Insurance is higher on SUV's and Truck's cause even though they offer more protection they can cause more damage. Bike's are cheap on insurance cause you cant do any damage to another person.

so did anything happen that was fun on the board today???

not to be rude but, When i lived in hawaii there was this father of 2 married with preggers wife was just going home after work and it just happened in a instant a accident on his bike and he was dead. I personaly have known of many military men to die on bikes and be seriously hurt to where they spent months in hospital. I also have seen here in Fl where there is many bike weeks a year and people are so cautious around bikers cause of the potential of accidents. i wont drive near a bike.

yes I do to and nights like this it would be nice to have someone to hold on to...uhmmm oh well

I choose to be alone so I guess I need to get used to it till the right guy comes along...

I personaly don't understand what ppl like about bike. I personaly love fast cars...