nice guys finish last, hate to say it

All these guys who say they're "nice guys" and complain about it sound extremely whiny. Definitely not attractive.

Lilith is right.. People will only treat you the way you allow them to... If you do not set boundaries of what you will and will not accept and you're with a person of less that gracious values/ethics then they will treat you wrong... We can't complain about how we're treated b/c we are in charge of ourselves and what we will allow...

I do not think women just go for bad guys and I do not think women get away with a lot... I think that some do and some don't BOTH SEXES.. Why must we always be so 'general'.. A general statement really says nothing b/c the statement itself is impossible to prove. JMHO

normally i wouldn't agree with what your expressing, but i can count how many women are like this and think, it's just a guy. get what i can and get out...

I am sorry that you've had such horrible experiences to view all women this way Shadow...

As if we would even bother with the likes of someone who would do that!!!!!

Then they are not ladies but, just a typical loser!

Alexia so many blame everyone else for their bad decisions on who they chose to date so ALL women are bad.. The funny thing is I'll put money on the fact that 8 or 9 out of every 10 of these women they were screwed over by are very pretty, have big boobs and or hot bodies and that being your major criteria will almost always lead to failure...

I believe in "Reap what you sow" and this applies to this topic as well. If you treat another with respect, 9 out of 10 times you will be treated in the same manner. Shallow thinking leads to shallow lives. Granted, there are exceptions to everything, but I have been a "nice guy" pretty much my whole life and have hed wonderous relationships. My marriage did not go south only because of her, I had a part in it also. When you lose touch with the way you are supposed to act and start expecting some sort of praise for it, you will be destined for doom.

I do agree with you but, we all have to take responsibility for ourselves at some point.

Just because someone does me wrong, I am not going to go out there and do wrong to another. In other words, if Person A wrongs Person B in some manner, then Person B wrongs Person C. Person B actions are not justified because Person C had not wronged Person A.

Granted, two wrongs do not equal justice either, but that a whole 'nother can of worms

Now, it is also important to note that many good people do bad things. Thus, it is important to address the behavior.

On the other hand, I am not one that feels that I have "wronged" very often. In fact, I consider myself lucky at how nice the people in my life have been.

I think it is important to give a person the benefit of the doubt when you meet new people but, just as important to listen to your instincts. If I see a red flag, I use caution when dealing with that person.

Never said all. I said i can't count how many I know most things go both ways. Other then being on this site and be honest as far as what they call the so call real world in your area. How many guys would you actually date?

I don't think this question was the intent of the thread but I adore ya so I'll answer... There are very very few but not for the reasons you might think.. It can be their ethics, their intentions, they are screwballs, they aren't divorced, they do not know how to treat a lady, they aren't not over their past hurt, we have nothing in common, they're not very smart, they don't have a sense of humor... Um that's all I can think of right now but those are reasons I've turned down dating a man.. I have NEVER EVER gone out for a free dinner, or tried to get anything out of any man... I can support myself and do, we all have tough times here and there but the last thing I want is to be stuck with someone I don't want to be with but need.. Therefore, I keep it that I don't need anyone... If I want someone in my life that is one thing... "need" never...

I have been seeing an awful lot of the " Nice guys finish last " threads here lately, and most of the time I completely agree.

However, one thing that is rarely mentioned is that when a guy is too nice, it's considered by a lot of women ( and by no means do I mean ALL ) as a sign of that man being weak in some way. Kinda like nice = pushover.

That isn't always the case. A guy that's nice, can also be an a**hole at times. It's just human nature.

My ex g/f gave me the nickname of Knightmare. Her reason? I was " like a knight in shining armor, who was also a nightmare to deal with sometimes ".

I admit that there are times that I am not the easiest person to live with, but that doesn't mean that I am not a nice guy in general. I am, by no stretch of the imagination, a pushover. That doesn't mean I'm not " nice ".

The trick is to find the very fine line between the " nice " part that will be seen as weak, and the a**hole part that will let a woman know that you aren't a doormat that she can just step on.

To me, the vast majority of the women here really wouldn't do any of the things that were listed at the beginning of the thread. Then again, I don't really know any of them, so it's possible that they just might. That being said, I would think that the women who wouldn't, are in a pretty small minority.

Ladies, one thing you need to keep in mind is that when most guys say stuff like this, it's because they experienced it. That doesn't mean it's right to apply it to every woman they meet, but when something happens multiple times, we can't help BUT start expecting it.

Let me put it this way....let's say you really despise your ex. Are you going to date another guy who is even remotely like him? I would bet you wouldn't. Now take that, and spread it across all of your ex's.

You learn from your mistakes. As do we.

One problem I have with the opening post to this thread is the line about not even looking at the check when it hits the table. I was always brought up that, if I ask someone out, that means that I pay for the date. Some women may not like that, but for me, that's just the way it is. If she really wants to pay, then she can ask ME out the next time.

Sorry about the long post.

Actually, the question was for part of this thread. I said it in a short way of how you explaind how men are. See some women like to be catered to, but some like to take advantage of that and not care about anything but themselves. Men on the other hand, do that to in some situations. Can she cook, can she clean, will she do my cloths, make my lunches all in the attention of not doing anything for a women other then telling her to do it.

I am not whinny about it, but it is kind of the truth. I am sure most of us have heard girls talking and they say something along the lines of "he is too nice".

I am not saying you should be mean, just poke fun at them in a light hearted way.. bust their balls so to speak (like you do with your friends). Don't just through yourself on the table, leave them wondering what kind of person you are.

Wow, from reading this, I'd have to say Nice Guys finish last 'cause they're . . .

Well, I won't say it . . .

and it ain't 'cause I'm nice.

Well, if not last, at least at the rear of the pack.

Hallelujah! If you haven't got the guts to be a nice guy without being a whiny, complaining pushover, if you haven't got the guts to make your interest in a woman known, then, yeah, you're gonna finish last. I have never dated anyone but nice guys and I have always treated them well and been treated well in return. And those that didn't treat me well got kicked to the curb, but fast.

Generalizations usually have some basis in fact, but are no more attractive than any other stereotype. "Women only want guys that treat them badly", "All nice guys are whiny pu$$ies", etc.

I have dated a lot of women and been lucky enough to have known the love of my life. I also have a great many female friends and I'm smart enough to listen to what they say. Women want respect, the same as a man does. What they don't want is some fawning yes man who constantly decalres his undying love, can't stand to be away from her, etc..... and men don't usually want those things from a woman either. It's unhealthy and almost parasitic.
So- I could be wrong, (it happens a lot) but I'd suggest to all the nice guys that they treat there lady with respect, not deference and just be a ****in' man!

I apologize for any general staements made above- I try to avoid them as I hate being lumped into them myself, but a little hard to avoid with this topic.

Good for You!!! A man that accepts his part in a relationship instead of dogging on women. You are the reason women keep searching. We hope there are more men like you out there. Kuddo's to You Brother! And I hope you find a good woman that appreciates you !