I have debated this before and cases for child molestation in the public schools for just a 10 year period were well over half a million cases.The only reason we don't hear about them is because the media won't report it.Further more I don't see why Christianty is to blame as the bible is telling you to not do it.You can blame a homosexual priest living his life like a Atheist.You can't blame Christianity.

You know something you Atheist should stop worrying so much about Christianity and heaven and hell and just enjoy your life.You don't believe in it so why worry about it?I swear you Atheist spend more time worrying about God and the bible than Christians do.I don't know the first thing about any of the other religions and I don't give a hoot what they say and I don't waste my time worrying if they are right or wrong.

curiosity

Christians are highly politically active. They try to muscle their religious ideas into our public schools and even into our laws. There are Christian extremists who have suggested that there should be a death penalty for homosexuality (just like their God suggests in the Bible).

IMHO, it's a hateful divisive religion that is quite dangerous. I mean if they take the idea of a death penalty for homosexual seriously the next thing they'd be doing is having a death penalty for everyone who rejects the bible as the word of God, because the biblical God has also directed people to seek out and murder heathens too.

So we'd just end up having modern day crusades and witch hunts if Christianity was given a free reign. We've already seen historically what it will do when give political power.

So this is why many people oppose the constant Christian Proselytizing. It's like fighting against a cancer that would grow out of hand if not opposed.




Unfortunately that's very true of many Christians. They are highly uneducated when it comes to world religions and philosophy. They have been brainwashed to not think outside of the box they have been sucked into. The Bible warns it's readers of the horrible perils of rejecting the Bible as the "word of God", it's the only unforgivable sin, it keeps its readers dumbed-down on purpose.

People who are kept uneducated will never know any better.

This is why the non-Christians are trying hard to educated the Christians and get them to think outside of the limited box they have been deluded by.

The Christians can't see their own hatred precisely because they can't see outside of the box. It's an extremely arrogant religion, but that shouldn't come as a surprise since it's entirely based on a self-confessed jealous God.

Most educated people have recognized that jealousy is an undesirable human fault. Yet the Christians worship a God who brags about being a jealous God. It's not good.

Doctors fight against physical cancer. The atheists fight against spiritual cancer. The Christians spread spiritual cancer in the name of poor Jesus. It's such a shame when you stop and think about it.

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Unfortunately that's very true of many Christians. They are highly uneducated when it comes to world religions and philosophy. They have been brainwashed to not think outside of the box they have been sucked into. The Bible warns it's readers of the horrible perils of rejecting the Bible as the "word of God", it's the only unforgivable sin, it keeps its readers dumbed-down on purpose
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Has NOTHING to do with being brainwashed or anything. I have felt the presence of God. I hear him all the time. It has nothing to do with anything the bible says or warns about, i have personally FELT the presence of God.
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The Christians can't see their own hatred precisely because they can't see outside of the box. It's an extremely arrogant religion, but that shouldn't come as a surprise since it's entirely based on a self-confessed jealous God.
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There is NO hatred my friend. We love everyone and treat EVERYONE with respect. Regardless of their beliefs or anything, we are to treat EVERYONE with love and respect. Now i do realize alot fail in this and i'm appologize for them, but please don't let those that do this give you the impression it's Christianity in general.
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Doctors fight against physical cancer. The atheists fight against spiritual cancer. The Christians spread spiritual cancer in the name of poor Jesus. It's such a shame when you stop and think about it.
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How can you say Christians are spreading spiritual cancer? What in anyway does Christianity teach ANYTHING that is immoral or wrong? Teaches us to love EVERYONE regardless what they've done or do, heck we are to turn the other cheek if someone was to have hit us and not retaliate.
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Christians are highly politically active. They try to muscle their religious ideas into our public schools and even into our laws. There are Christian extremists who have suggested that there should be a death penalty for homosexuality
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Well then these Christians are in the wrong and just as lost as the Atheists. Because we are NOT to judge anyone. It is not our place to judge anyone. We will be judged with the same measure as we judge others.

how do you know atheists are wrong? isn't right or wrong is as the person sees it?

Never said atheists are "wrong". Because wrong is only a perspective of one's self. Atheists aren't exactly "wrong" they are just blind to the truth. They refuse to open their minds and hearts to see and feel the glory of God.

The ONLY way atheists could be "wrong" is if they straight up said there is no God. But atheists in the general definition would be not believing in God, and that's not exactly "wrong" that is your belief. Like i could think Blue is the greatest most beautiful color, then someone else thinks green is. Doesn't make either one right or wrong as long as we don't deny the fact that the other believes as such. It's all about what you want to open your minds to and give the possibility of to.

yea, i hate it when that happens...
i think the same thing of religious people, the blind part. i don't think most religious folks can see past their bible. not exactly a bad thing, but there is a big world that can be explained with out the bible.

The bible isn't there to explain the world. The bible is there to explain how to receive the gift of heaven. The rest we have to look for and find ourselves. Scientists do this for the usual.

good answer... historically, the religious and scientist haven't gotten along very well.

It's a law book and a book of guidance. Nothing more, nothing less. EVERY thing in the bible is to either teach us a lesson by using previous actions taken by other people or just straight up telling us not to do something or to do something. And since the bible doesn't use specific dates eg., in the year 200 so and so did this, it's not necessarily a "history" book.

I am an atheist, and i believe I have seen and felt what you call 'the glory of God'. This is when you know that existence is perfect, that all of the pain in your life has its place in the whole, and you accept it, that every human being is your brother and sister, you love them fully and know they carry the potential to love you and all others fully; you see that all conflict is due to unfortunate, limited perspectives, at times you feel a wellspring of joy and love, as if from an outside source, as if from a perfect being, and you know that as long as you are willing to accept it, it will be there for you; its when every tiny detail of the nature of living beings fills you with wonder, amazement, and contentment/satisfaction...this is a matter for feeling, not for analysis, and these words don't do it justice, not by a long shot.

I'm deliberately leaving out the part where you 'see God in everyone' and 'see God in all creation'.


It saddens me that this marvelous aspect of human existence is co-opted by those who want to convince others to embrace specific dogma. Worse, religions teach the tools that are useful to open our hearts to the mis-named 'glory of God', while simultaneous teaching people are 'the true nature of God, gods qualities, God's expectations' so the poor saps who have this transformative experience actually think their experience validates their beliefs.

Egad! The bitterness toward Christianity here is so thick that you can cut it with a knife.

Such a wide sweeping generalization of Christians is amazing. It leaves out the fact that rigid-fundamentalist Christians do not represent all Christian, just a tiny fraction of Christians. The generalization also leaves out the fact that plenty of Christians are opposed to the political goals of rigid-fundamentalist Christians.

Granted, every faith has its extremists, but one would be hard pressed to find a group of Christians who want homosexuals executed and who are not themselves condemned by the larger Christian community for having such a desire. For example, the infamous Westboro Baptist Church of Topeka, Kansas is regularly denounced by Christians as being a church from Hell.

Let's get something straight. The laws given to the ancient Israelites do not apply to Christianity. Nowhere in the New Testament does Jesus or the Apostles promote the killing of people. This rant about Christians wanting to kill homosexuals is nothing more than a straw-man argument.

Nut-jobs claiming to be Christians can be violent, as history reveals. Still, in this day and age plenty of Christians would rise up and oppose such violence. This is the 21st Century, not the 17th Century.

A personal opinion with a grain of truth. Sadly, way too many Christians do not know the difference between evangelism and proselytizing. They think they are doing the former when they are doing the latter. It is rude to try to force a person to listen to something that she or he does not want to listen to, which is what proselytizing involves. Jesus did not tell his disciples to badger or coerce others into becoming followers of Jesus.

Such a claim about Christians will come as a surprise to college-educated Christians, some of them having PhDs.

Hatred? What hatred? Such a claim reminds me of a case of psychological projection.
No bragging involved. Just a staement of fact. Since a Bible statement about God has been mentioned here, I'll add another Bible statement about God: "For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. " (John 3:17) The love of God is the dominant attribute of God, not jealousy.

A spiritual cancer? Oh, really?

"The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control" (Galatians 5:22-23).

That is some cancer.

As usual your posts lack any reality and of course facts concerning what you are talking about.

Our Government including our public schools are not dictated by the bible,the church,priests,or biblical laws.There is not a single law in our Government that comes from the bible or uses the bible for reference for enforcing laws.The church does not make laws in this country nor does the church have it's own military and police force that it uses to enforce biblical laws.

I am baffled how Christianity is being muscled into public schools when kids in public schools are banned from drawing crosses,using bible references in school projects,praying in public schools,and banned from using the theory that God created everything instead of the big bang theory.The only thing being muscled into public schools is a huge intolerance towards Christianity and a big welcome to Atheism.The separation of church and state specifically gives anyone with religious beliefs the right to practice them anywhere they please including public places.Our Government infringing on our religious beliefs is a violation of our rights.


Since you believe Christians are out killing homosexuals for being gay perhaps you can post a few news stories about these murders which must be happening all over America.


Your theory of dumb uneducated Christians is once again baffling.It is hardly a surprise that Christian high schools and Colleges always rank at the top of the list as the most successful and educated students in the nation.It is also no surprise that home schooled students are also some of the brightest in the nation.

I think it would be a waste of time to post the hundreds of pages of great American Christians through out the years of this nation.Perhaps you can post some articles on how Atheism and it's followers are smarter than us dumb Christians and more important how Atheist schools are the top performers in this country.Athiest great leaders in America???You might get a few names but I doubt it.

Oh, absolutely. I make no apologies for that either. It spreads hatred and divisiveness and has a clear history of horrific violent acts being taken in the name of Jesus.



Again, no apologies will be made. The reason being quite simple. You claim that there are 'good' Christians, but the problem with those so-called "good Christians" are that they seldom, if ever, speak out against those rigid fundamentalists. Moreover when they do the rigid fundamentalists often have the "upper hand" when it comes to finding quotes in the Bible that support their views.

If we take you views one step further we can ask the following:

Just exactly what is a Christian?

Well, you can define a "Christian" in two distinctly different ways.

You can define the "Christians" as the people who actually 'wrote' the New Testament. In that sense all the true Christians are actually dead now, and all that are left are people who claim to 'believe' what was written, yet often disagree on what the writings actually mean.

And that latter group is a second way of defining a "Christian". (i.e. a follower of the original authors of the New Testament).

The problem with calling the latter group "Christians" is the fact that they all have their own opinions of what the original authors were trying to claim.

And what does that bring us to?

It brings us to the fact that by this latter definition the very term 'Christian' is an utterly meaningless term, because just above everyone who calls themselves a 'Christian' has a different idea about what the religion means to them.

In fact, if I accept your view on what it means to truly be a "Christian" then I must also accept the fact that there are very few true Christians in the world today, and the vast majority of people who claim to be Christians are actually just misguided people who are abusing the label.

But what does that mean?

Well, that means that "true Christianity" in then a very tiny obscure religion that has nothing at all to do with the popular world-wide network of Christianity as an 'organized religion"

And besides, you speak about the 'bitterness toward Christianity', but can you blame people? Christianity as a bulk religion demands that all other religions are wrong, and they often even put down other religions as being the work of the devil.

In other words, Christians are "bitter toward all non_Christian religions" just by the simple fact that their stance is that if you reject Christ, then you are rejecting God, and if you reject God, then you can only be siding with Satan because there are no other "sides" to be on!

Face it, the original religion was written up with the specific express intent to convince and brainwash the readers into believing that the authors of the Bible speak for God and therefore to reject their words is to reject God.

The whole religion is based on a bigoted hateful theme from square one.

This is why many people reject it. They simply don't believe that the creator of all humanity would have created such a divisive religion in our midst.

I think someone else already covered this in this thread. Why would a true creator of the Earth and all of humanity only inspire a very small culture to write down his instructions and commandments to all of humanity? That makes absolutely no sense at all.

Maybe people, including myself, consider that simple fact alone to be sufficient evidence to proof that the Bible is a brainwashing scheme made up by man and not inspired by any all-powerful all-wise God, because there would be nothing all-powerful or all-wise about creating a planet and then inspiring only a very few men in on tiny spot on the planet to write absurd stories whilst allowing the whole rest of the planet to develop "false religions".

Such a God would be a complete idiot, not an all-wise deity.

The idea that any religion on Earth "Came from God" is an insane and unworkable idea in and of itself.

So when a religion like the Abrahamic religion comes along (truly a single religion that fell in to many opposing sects) we can know with absolute certainty that it didn't come from any all-wise God.

The Abrahamic Religion actually fell into many parts. It started out as the folklore of the Israelites who claimed that they were "God's Chosen People". (that's a red flag right there!)

And then broke up into, modern Judaism, Islam, Catholicism and finally the myriad of diverse sects of Protestantism.

It's just a train-wreck religion that has actually turned in on itself. It's own various sects hate each others guts. Not to mention showing blatant disrespect for the entire rest of the world religions.

It's just arrogance gone insane. It's breeds more hate than any other single cause on the planet. It's a cancer of the human spirit.

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Maybe people, including myself, consider that simple fact alone to be sufficient evidence to proof that the Bible is a brainwashing scheme made up by man and not inspired by any all-powerful all-wise God, because there would be nothing all-powerful or all-wise about creating a planet and then inspiring only a very few men in on tiny spot on the planet to write absurd stories whilst allowing the whole rest of the planet to develop "false religions".
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And if God did not allow this to happen we wouldn't have free will. God allows obstacles to stay on earth eg., false prophets and temptations from other sins, because again heaven is EARNED it's not a given right so this are allowed to stay so we have a way to earn heaven.
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I think someone else already covered this in this thread. Why would a true creator of the Earth and all of humanity only inspire a very small culture to write down his instructions and commandments to all of humanity? That makes absolutely no sense at all.
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You also have to keep in mind the population of the world at the time. There wasn't anywhere with a large population in those times. And so God chose the most obediant group of people in ratio with everyone in the world.
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And then broke up into, modern Judaism, Islam, Catholicism and finally the myriad of diverse sects of Protestantism.
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And this is Satan's work right here. You can go even further with it, with the different denominations of Christianity. Satan is confusing us of the true meaning of the bible and keeping us separated. If we were to unite all together, Satan would then have lost.

That makes absolutely no sense at all.

Clearly you misunderstood the very point that is being made.

Supposedly God did inspire, and even speak directly to, many of the people who supposedly wrote the Bible, etc.

Did that detract from their "free will". No, of course not. So the idea of a God who inspires men to write his biddings does not equate to interference with "Free Will". Otherwise the Bible itself would be nothing more than a case history of God constantly interfering with the "free will" of men.

The point is pretty clear an simple. If the creator of this universe wanted to get a message to his creation he would have inspiried cultures from all over the globe to write the same things.

Clearly that didn't happen. Any arguements about "free will" are utterly inappropretate and absurd and they totally miss the point. If God could inspire the Hebews to write his word without interfering with their free will, then he could have inspiried men from all cultures to write his word without interferring with their free will.

Your arugment that God needs to repsect free will doesn't hold in this scenario because it doesn't even apply!

Either there is a universal God who would attempt to inspire all cultures equally, or each individual culture is making up their own ideas.

Clearly it's NOT the former, therefore it MUST BE the latter.

Even the Abrahamic religions that are claimed to be "the inspired word God" have fallen into extreme disarray and opposition with each other to such an extreme degree. Christianity is the most modern of them all, it's the "Johnney Come Lately" not becoming fully moderinzed until the 1600,s actually.

So any arguments about "Free Will" are totally absurd and miss the point entirely.

Beside, what the hell kind of a God would be so concerned about the 'free will' of men, and then simultaneously demand that they must beleive in one particular version of an extremely distorted and fragmented religion or they will be cast aside from his heavenly kingdom.

The pcitrue of a God that you describe and support is not God at all but a totally lame confused and inept demon. Appeals to a need for this hypothetical God to preserve "free will" are inapplicable and absurd.

They simply don't even apply to the situation, much less 'explain it away'.

A God who can't even effectively communmiacte with his own creation without ambiguity is no "god" at all. Such a creator would be nothing short of a totally inept fool.

There's no excuse for such an inept god.

If our creator is that inept, he'd be worse than the mere random accident suggested by the atheists.

You can't make excuses for a suppostely all-wise God who does utterly stupid and unwise things.

Sorry, but there are no excuses for such inneptitude.

The Biblical God is supposed to be all-wise, not all-inept.

Such a relationship is the result of people having a misunderstanding of science.

Stephen Jay Gould, evolutionary biologist: “Science tries to document the factual character of the natural world and to develop theories that coordinate and explain these facts. Religion, on the other hand, operates in the equally important, but utterly different, realm of human purposes, meanings and values –subjects that the factual domain of science might illuminate but can never resolve.”[1]

“Darwin did not use evolution to promote atheism or to maintain that no concept of God could ever be squared with the structure of nature. Rather, he argued that nature’s factuality, as read within the magisterium of science, could not resolve, or even specify, the existence or character of God, the ultimate meaning of life, the proper foundations of morality, or any other question within the different magisterium of religion.”[2]

“The universe, for all we know, may have an ultimate purpose and meaning . . . and these ultimates may be set by a rational transcendent power legitimately called God, but the resolvable subject matter of science falls into another realm below the purview of such philosophical (and probably unknowable) generalities.”[3]

Ian G. Barbour, nuclear physicist: “Another way of separating theological from scientific assertions in the distinction between primary and secondary causality, which is common in Catholic and neo-orthodox thought. God as primary cause is said to work through the secondary causes of the natural world that science studies. God is omnipotent and uses natural laws to achieve particular goals. Primary causality is on a totally different level from the interactions among entities in the world.”[4]

Kenneth R. Miller, biologist: “Does evolution really nullify all world views that depend on the spiritual? Does it demand logical agnosticism as the price of scientific consistency? And does it rigorously exclude belief in God? These are the questions that I will explore in the pages that follow. My answer, in each and every case, is a resounding ‘no’.”[5]

“My friends and colleagues in nonscientific disciplines will often claim science as their authority. Clearly they believe that scientific inquiry has ruled out the divine. Unfortunately for them, as I will argue, nothing of the sort is true. Their attitude towards religion and religious people are rooted not so much in science itself as in the humanist fabric of modern intellectual life.”[6]

Mark Buchheim, biologist: “Science is indeed a powerful tool, but science is, by default, mute with regard to anything outside the natural world. The late Stephen J. Gould introduced the concept of NOMA, or non-overlapping magisteria, to describe how science and faith co-exist in “mutual humility.” The point I’m making here is that science, stripped of any philosophical assumptions about the exclusivity of the natural world, can tell us nothing about our faith. Therefore, anyone who tries to link an acceptance of evolutionary theory with atheism or agnosticism is promoting a false dichotomy.”[7]

Mark A. Foster, sociologist: “Because a scientist recognizes the operational limitations of science does not make her or him an atheist.”[8]

“Like virtually all scientists (physical, biological, or social), I am a methodological naturalist. However, I am not an atheist (an ontological naturalist). As a methodological naturalist, I reject that science can be used to demonstrate the existence of God. I do not reject that the existence of God can be demonstrated through other means.”[9]

“There is as much evidence for evolution (most of it genetic) as there is for the heliocentric model of the solar system (that the sun, not the earth, is its center). There is no other side of the coin. Accepting evolution, however, does not mean that one rejects of God or the soul.”[10]

John Wilkins, agnostic philosophy professor: “A final form of naturalism is ontological naturalism. This is the opinion that all that exists is natural. Many scientists are also physicalists. They argue that if we do not need to postulate the reality of non-physical processes for science, then we can conclude that there are no such things. This argument is too quick. The claim that ‘if A then B’ explains B may be true, but there may also be a C that explains B. Moreover, many things in the physical world are cause by many things together rather than just a few. So, we might say that a physical event is caused by both God and by physical causes, without being logically inconsistent.”[11]

Keith Augustine, atheist philosopher: “In utilizing methodological naturalism, science and history do not assume a priori that, as a matter of fact, supernatural causes don't really exist. There is no conceptual conflict between practicing science or history and believing in the supernatural.”[12]

As the above quotes reveal, science does not require atheism, and thus, a person can believe in God and still be a good scientist. For example, scientist Gregor Mendel was the father of the scientific field of genetics. He was also a Catholic priest. Renowned agricultural scientist George Washington Carver claimed that his Christian faith influenced his scientific pursuits.

According to Stephen Jay Gould, science and religion are in non-overlapping magisteria (a.k.a. NOMA) Thus, science and religion are not enemies.


Notes:
[1]Stephen Jay Gould, Rocks of ages: Science and religion in the fullness of life (Ballantine: 1999), p. 4.
[2]Ibid., p. 192.
[3]Ibid., p. 199.
[4]Ian G. Barbour, When science meets religion (HarperSanFrancisco: 2000), p. 19.
[5]Kenneth R. Miller, Finding Darwin’s god (Cliff Street Books: 1999), p. 17.
[6]Ibid., p. 19.
[7]Mark Buchheim, “Letter to the editor: an educated response”,
The Collegian Online (University of Tulsa: 2005), http://www.utulsa.edu/collegian/article.asp?article=2569 .
[8]Mark A. Foster, “The Captain’s Personal bLog”,
My Looking-Glass Selves (Sociosphere: 2001), http://editorials.sociosphere.com/arc20020301.html .
[9]Ibid.
[10]Ibid.
[11]John Wilkins, Naturalism: Is it necessary? (TalkOrigins: 1997), http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/evolphil/naturalism.html .
[12]Keith Augustine, Naturalism (Infidels: 2009), http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/nontheism/naturalism/ .