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| Topic: Is Waterboarding Torture? | |
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I never heard of waterboarding so I had to google it. It certainly would seem like torture to me. Water boarding as it is currently described involves strapping a person to an inclined board, with his feet raised and his head lowered. The interrogators bind the person's arms and legs so he can't move at all, and they cover his face. In some descriptions, the person is gagged, and some sort of cloth covers his nose and mouth; in others, his face is wrapped in cellophane. The interrogator then repeatedly pours water onto the person's face. Depending on the exact setup, the water may or may not actually get into the person's mouth and nose; but the physical experience of being underneath a wave of water seems to be secondary to the psychological experience. The person's mind believes he is drowning, and his gag reflex kicks in. that is torture I'm with hernandez the answer is yes end/ |
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Yes ...fair play to Hitchens  I would pay decent money to see Hannity get the real treatment   Hannity, Levin, and all the other goons! Isn't it interesting that those who call water boarding torture want to see it used on their political opponents? If you mean moi, you're mistaken. I only want to see it done to people who advocate it. I have plenty of opponents who also oppose waterboarding. |
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Yes ...fair play to Hitchens I would pay decent money to see Hannity get the real treatment Hannity, Levin, and all the other goons! Isn't it interesting that those who call water boarding torture want to see it used on their political opponents? If you mean moi, you're mistaken. I only want to see it done to people who advocate it. I have plenty of opponents who also oppose waterboarding. That's very hypocritical, don't you think? You don't want it used on our enemies, but you want it used on anyone who thinks it would be a useful interrogation tool? |
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Yes ...fair play to Hitchens I would pay decent money to see Hannity get the real treatment Hannity, Levin, and all the other goons! Isn't it interesting that those who call water boarding torture want to see it used on their political opponents? If you mean moi, you're mistaken. I only want to see it done to people who advocate it. I have plenty of opponents who also oppose waterboarding. I don't think it should be done to anyone, but if the people who advocate it as not being torture and not being injurious would volunteer to try it out, I would not object. |
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Yes, everyone has a right to defend themselves from violence and to defend their family and friends etc. But defense can only happen at the time of the attack to be clear. Torturing a suspect for information is not "defense." its as 'defensive' as locking someone up to protect the public from potential harm,,, |
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Water boarding is considered torture under International Law...Obama banned it in in the US in 2009...It really didn't get much press here in the states until 2004 when it was made public that it was allegedly used in 02 and 03 by the Bush administration as a means of interrogating three suspected a-Qaeda terrorists.....In 02, The US Legal Counsel did write a memorandum which concluded water boarding was NOT torture and could be used for interrogation purposes...Does that make it right? Probably not...I am hard put to choose a side on this one because after 9/11, the game changed.....Those like Herman Cain, Governor Perry, and Michele Bachman who state unequivocally they would reinstate it if they were elected may not be in the majority, but at least they are being up front about it and I am sure they have access to more facts than I do or ever will have...In all honesty, if I was ever in a position where I had to make a choice and I was convinced American lives were at stake and I could save those lives, I would use any means I could to get the information I needed to protect innocent citizens.....PLEASE DON'T WATER BOARD ME!!!  I think that is not only wrong, it is pure evil. No kind of torture is acceptable for any reason at any time. Once you succumb to that kind of fear and you use your fear to torture suspects and deprive them of their rights, then you have gone over to the dark side. Fear has won. Terrorism wins. And if you are a Christian, shame on you, Satan has your soul. Don't torture people. Don't hit your children. What is wrong with you people?  what has christianity to do with war and discipline? I think Jeannie is very clear here...,. violence isn't Christlike!!~! neither is being a parent, if we are referring strictly to what Christ did or did not do that doesnt make it UN christian though Christians condoning violence are no better than those extremists who believe in jihad! Violence is violence. It is that simple. We make a decision to be non violent or not...not pick and choose when violence is acceptable, when it works in our favor which it can NEVER do. Because we can not hurt another without harming our self. geez!!!! this is idealistic but not true when I was assaulted in the park, I became 'violent' and it didnt harm myself in the least, especially not as much as doing nothing while someone was violent towards me would have,,, |
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Im just curious who believes there is literally NO SITUATION in which 'regular' questioning and interrogation techniques are not working and time doesnt allow for further attempts
'insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome' so how should regular techniques be switched up in those situations where they are not working,,? |
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Yes, everyone has a right to defend themselves from violence and to defend their family and friends etc. But defense can only happen at the time of the attack to be clear. Torturing a suspect for information is not "defense." its as 'defensive' as locking someone up to protect the public from potential harm,,, Locking someone up to protect the community... Requires first that the person has committed a crime. and is considered 'proper' punishment. Waterboarding is effective BECAUSE it places the reciever in a state of 'fear of death'... But Nukes are also 'effective' at what they were designed for... Would you use one? |
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Yes, everyone has a right to defend themselves from violence and to defend their family and friends etc. But defense can only happen at the time of the attack to be clear. Torturing a suspect for information is not "defense." its as 'defensive' as locking someone up to protect the public from potential harm,,, Locking someone up to protect the community... Requires first that the person has committed a crime. and is considered 'proper' punishment. Waterboarding is effective BECAUSE it places the reciever in a state of 'fear of death'... But Nukes are also 'effective' at what they were designed for... Would you use one? Nukes make it harder to affect specific parties, and risk too many 'innocent' lives as collateral locking up an offender, or using interrogative techniques on a suspected offender are more 'just',, in my opinion and dont risk lives (speaking of non LIFE Threatening techniques, obviously) |
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Edited by
msharmony
on
Tue 11/15/11 09:34 PM
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I am still curious as to what suggestions people have for getting time sensitive information from someone in a battle or terror situation?
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I am still curious as to what suggestions people have for getting time sensitive information from someone in a battle or terror situation? Deception Experts. Have you ever seen the series "Lie to me." There are professionals and professional training for just this thing. It can be more effective than torture or a lie detector. |
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I am still curious as to what suggestions people have for getting time sensitive information from someone in a battle or terror situation? Deception Experts. Have you ever seen the series "Lie to me." There are professionals and professional training for just this thing. It can be more effective than torture or a lie detector. I dont get how that helps. So once an expert VERIFIES the person is being deceptive,, how do we get the information needed to intercept a catastrophe or crime? |
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Tue 11/15/11 09:57 PM
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I am still curious as to what suggestions people have for getting time sensitive information from someone in a battle or terror situation? Deception Experts. Have you ever seen the series "Lie to me." There are professionals and professional training for just this thing. It can be more effective than torture or a lie detector. I dont get how that helps. So once an expert VERIFIES the person is being deceptive,, how do we get the information needed to intercept a catastrophe or crime? I guess you should take the course. You use your normal intelligence networks, you read the face and reactions to questions and you can learn more than you think. But if you are simply looking for justification for torturing the guy, I don't think you will be convinced by me that there are other ways. What I am strongly objecting to is telling our representatives, who REPRESENT ME, that they have my permission to torture people. They don't. I will never be on board for that. and I don't think it is necessary to hit your children either.  Now I realize you are dying to start your torturing and interrogation business but try this instead: Now here is where you can start with your deception training: https://face.paulekman.com/face/default.aspx Also, watch the Closer. She gets confessions out of people, and she never lays a hand on them. |
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Edited by
msharmony
on
Tue 11/15/11 10:03 PM
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I am still curious as to what suggestions people have for getting time sensitive information from someone in a battle or terror situation? Deception Experts. Have you ever seen the series "Lie to me." There are professionals and professional training for just this thing. It can be more effective than torture or a lie detector. I dont get how that helps. So once an expert VERIFIES the person is being deceptive,, how do we get the information needed to intercept a catastrophe or crime? I guess you should take the course. You use your normal intelligence networks, you read the face and reactions to questions and you can learn more than you think. But if you are simply looking for justification for torturing the guy, I don't think you will be convinced by me that there are other ways. What I am strongly objecting to is telling our representatives, who REPRESENT ME, that they have my permission to torture people. They don't. I will never be on board for that. and I don't think it is necessary to hit your children either. Now I realize you are dying to start your torturing and interrogation business but try this instead: Now here is where you can start with your deception training: https://face.paulekman.com/face/default.aspx Also, watch the Closer. She gets confessions out of people, and she never lays a hand on them. I dont think you will aknowledge any gray area about 'violence' or 'torture. its like saying sex is sex, and not acknowledging the difference between consentual and non consentual or saying violence is violence, but not acknowleding the difference between 'violent' sports that are entered into consentually, or self defense, or instigation of violence, or one on one fight, or a gang fight, or a war,,,,etc,,,, humanity is just really not so black and white, nor are the situations that human beings are sometimes facing,,, I understand the concept behind shows that you mention, but those situations are situations where crimes have ALREADY happened and information is being gathered. I am talking about situations where there is little time to PREVENT something being planned from happening. |
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No, you are talking about fear that something might happen.
YOU ARE SUCCUMBING TO FEAR AND TERRORISM. And you are retaliating with fear and terrorism and torture. These things are crystal clear and yes, black and white. You can't push the envelope when it comes to doing harm to another human being. I think everyone who is in favor of water-boarding or any other form of torture should volunteer to at least have to watch it done to someone, or have it done to them. Then maybe they can make an informed decision. Instead of letting FEAR make their decisions for them. |
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I have no delusions that this kind of thing is being done all the time behind closed doors, and I have no delusions that they will not stop doing it.
There will always be people who place themselves above the law and think that they are killing for a good cause or torturing for a good reason. But I will never agree to allowing my government representatives to have my blessings or permission to do it legally. |
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No, you are talking about fear that something might happen. YOU ARE SUCCUMBING TO FEAR AND TERRORISM. And you are retaliating with fear and terrorism and torture. These things are crystal clear and yes, black and white. You can't push the envelope when it comes to doing harm to another human being. I think everyone who is in favor of water-boarding or any other form of torture should volunteer to at least have to watch it done to someone, or have it done to them. Then maybe they can make an informed decision. Instead of letting FEAR make their decisions for them. Im not letting fear make my decision at all, Im actually deciding using rational thought. To suggest people should volunteer to participate in waterboarding because they dont want it taken off the table is a decision based in vengeance, which Im not sure is any better or worse than one made in fear. |
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Tue 11/15/11 10:16 PM
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No, you are talking about fear that something might happen. YOU ARE SUCCUMBING TO FEAR AND TERRORISM. And you are retaliating with fear and terrorism and torture. These things are crystal clear and yes, black and white. You can't push the envelope when it comes to doing harm to another human being. I think everyone who is in favor of water-boarding or any other form of torture should volunteer to at least have to watch it done to someone, or have it done to them. Then maybe they can make an informed decision. Instead of letting FEAR make their decisions for them. Im not letting fear make my decision at all, Im actually deciding using rational thought. To suggest people should volunteer to participate in waterboarding because they dont want it taken off the table is a decision based in vengeance, which Im not sure is any better or worse than one made in fear. No, you are letting fear make your decision because of being under the threat that someone will be killed or blown up. That is the threat. That is the fear. That is terrorism working on your "rational thought." The suggestion for people to watch or participate in the activity first hand has nothing to do with vengeance. It has to do with knowing full well what you are sanctioning your government to do. |
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Edited by
msharmony
on
Tue 11/15/11 10:18 PM
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No, you are talking about fear that something might happen. YOU ARE SUCCUMBING TO FEAR AND TERRORISM. And you are retaliating with fear and terrorism and torture. These things are crystal clear and yes, black and white. You can't push the envelope when it comes to doing harm to another human being. I think everyone who is in favor of water-boarding or any other form of torture should volunteer to at least have to watch it done to someone, or have it done to them. Then maybe they can make an informed decision. Instead of letting FEAR make their decisions for them. Im not letting fear make my decision at all, Im actually deciding using rational thought. To suggest people should volunteer to participate in waterboarding because they dont want it taken off the table is a decision based in vengeance, which Im not sure is any better or worse than one made in fear. No, you are letting fear make your decision because of being under the threat that someone will be killed or blown up. That is the threat. That is the fear. That is terrorism working our your "rational thought." The suggestion for people to watch or participate in the activity first hand has nothing to do with vengeance. It has to do with knowing full well what you are sanctioning your government to do. I wouldnt do it because I have committed no crime or been involved in any plots. Just like PRISON is an end result of a process that is meant to protect the public(amongst other purposes). Just like there are sometimes INNOCENT people who suffer through that process and imprisonment, IM sure innocent people are going to suffer with techniques involved in gathering information to protect a country or a community at times. But I would not feel the solution was to throw out the process altogether because of it. Anymore than I would want to toss out jails because innocent people end up in them. Make it harder and create stricter guidelines to justify prison, or interrogative techniques,, ? Absolutely toss them out? tell the government to protect us the best they can without causing anyone any fear?,,,,,Absolutely IMPOSSIBLE |
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You tend to generalize everything wanting to blur the question here. We are specificly talking about water-boarding (which most of us have decided is torture)
This subject is very specific! The question is: Shall we tell our government representatives, who represent US that it is okay with us for them to make it a standard policy to use water-boarding (torture) on suspects? Not guilty people. Suspects. That is the question. Yes or no. Don't justify or blur the issue. Are you sanctioning our government to torture? Yes or no. I say NO. There are no gray areas in my mind on this topic. In my opinion, if you give that power to your government, you are taking a step into the dark side, just as the German people who supported Hitler did. Dark side. |
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