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| Topic: Is Waterboarding Torture? | |
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A lil water never hurt anyone and by the looks of those creeps they definately need a bath. Hate speech. Yup, I hate terrorists. As do 99% of all Americans, but most of us love the Constitution or Bill Of Rights that allows us a trial by a jury of our peers, represntation in that trial, and the belief that all are innocent till proven guilty! You torture someone, sure they'll say there guilty, and tell you anything you want to hear, and swear to it! You truely do dwell within the dark side! Your judgements are premature on unknown factors, and purely based on suspitions! Guilty till proven innocent...... NOT so American in my book or opinion! Well first of all the terrorists ARN'T Americans so the Constitution has no say in them. Second of all Waterboarding isn't torture. I know plenty of people who have been in harms way in both Iraq and Afganistan and agree with not only is it not torture but a valuable tool they had. |
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A lil water never hurt anyone and by the looks of those creeps they definately need a bath. Hate speech. Yup, I hate terrorists. As do 99% of all Americans, but most of us love the Constitution or Bill Of Rights that allows us a trial by a jury of our peers, represntation in that trial, and the belief that all are innocent till proven guilty! You torture someone, sure they'll say there guilty, and tell you anything you want to hear, and swear to it! You truely do dwell within the dark side! Your judgements are premature on unknown factors, and purely based on suspitions! Guilty till proven innocent...... NOT so American in my book or opinion! Well first of all the terrorists ARN'T Americans so the Constitution has no say in them. Second of all Waterboarding isn't torture. I know plenty of people who have been in harms way in both Iraq and Afganistan and agree with not only is it not torture but a valuable tool they had. If America is holding a captive, then they have rights under our laws, whether they be a citizen or not, otherwise, how can we proclaim the right to pass sentence upon them? Your opinion would make you a terrorist to them! Should they ever kidnap you, you are saying it is ok if you are tortured because to them you are a terrorist by your own admission? So 2 wrongs make it right? I would think that canoe is at least 1 paddle short of a trip up river! |
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Edited by
Sojourning_Soul
on
Wed 11/16/11 07:58 PM
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I am a veteran, Viet Nam era. You want to talk torture?
I belong to and attend many veteran functions. I assure you, I have met NONE who feel torture is an accepatable tool for any reason! Anyone who tortures sells their humanity for all time, and will suffer the agonies of rememberance to their deeds. None of the vets or soldiers I know would even think of such abandon to their humanity! If waterboarding is not torture, and so useless, it must not be a very good tool! So we are having this discussion because.... We just like screwin with people a little 
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A lil water never hurt anyone and by the looks of those creeps they definately need a bath. Hate speech. Yup, I hate terrorists. As do 99% of all Americans, but most of us love the Constitution or Bill Of Rights that allows us a trial by a jury of our peers, represntation in that trial, and the belief that all are innocent till proven guilty! You torture someone, sure they'll say there guilty, and tell you anything you want to hear, and swear to it! You truely do dwell within the dark side! Your judgements are premature on unknown factors, and purely based on suspitions! Guilty till proven innocent...... NOT so American in my book or opinion! Well first of all the terrorists ARN'T Americans so the Constitution has no say in them. Second of all Waterboarding isn't torture. I know plenty of people who have been in harms way in both Iraq and Afganistan and agree with not only is it not torture but a valuable tool they had. Wow. What part of 'self-evident' do you not understand. If a truth is self-evident... It holds also for my enemy. therefore the Constitution DOES apply. |
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A lil water never hurt anyone and by the looks of those creeps they definately need a bath. Hate speech. Yup, I hate terrorists. As do 99% of all Americans, but most of us love the Constitution or Bill Of Rights that allows us a trial by a jury of our peers, represntation in that trial, and the belief that all are innocent till proven guilty! You torture someone, sure they'll say there guilty, and tell you anything you want to hear, and swear to it! You truely do dwell within the dark side! Your judgements are premature on unknown factors, and purely based on suspitions! Guilty till proven innocent...... NOT so American in my book or opinion! Well first of all the terrorists ARN'T Americans so the Constitution has no say in them. Second of all Waterboarding isn't torture. I know plenty of people who have been in harms way in both Iraq and Afganistan and agree with not only is it not torture but a valuable tool they had. Some are American. (think al-Alawquikii) You think waterboarding isn't torture? Even tough-guy John McCain admits it is. See here- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWs89-4v5Tg&feature=player_embedded#! (fast forward to 0:33) |
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A lil water never hurt anyone and by the looks of those creeps they definately need a bath. Hate speech. Yup, I hate terrorists. As do 99% of all Americans, but most of us love the Constitution or Bill Of Rights that allows us a trial by a jury of our peers, represntation in that trial, and the belief that all are innocent till proven guilty! You torture someone, sure they'll say there guilty, and tell you anything you want to hear, and swear to it! You truely do dwell within the dark side! Your judgements are premature on unknown factors, and purely based on suspitions! Guilty till proven innocent...... NOT so American in my book or opinion! Well first of all the terrorists ARN'T Americans so the Constitution has no say in them. Second of all Waterboarding isn't torture. I know plenty of people who have been in harms way in both Iraq and Afganistan and agree with not only is it not torture but a valuable tool they had. Wow. What part of 'self-evident' do you not understand. If a truth is self-evident... It holds also for my enemy. therefore the Constitution DOES apply. Partly correct. The Constitution allows Congress to set rules for war (and binds congress to certain rules for declaring war...which they've unfortunately surrendered to the executive). The Constitution also allows for agreements with other nations, including the rules of war-which torture violates. |
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A lil water never hurt anyone and by the looks of those creeps they definately need a bath. Hate speech. Yup, I hate terrorists. As do 99% of all Americans, but most of us love the Constitution or Bill Of Rights that allows us a trial by a jury of our peers, represntation in that trial, and the belief that all are innocent till proven guilty! You torture someone, sure they'll say there guilty, and tell you anything you want to hear, and swear to it! You truely do dwell within the dark side! Your judgements are premature on unknown factors, and purely based on suspitions! Guilty till proven innocent...... NOT so American in my book or opinion! Well first of all the terrorists ARN'T Americans so the Constitution has no say in them. Second of all Waterboarding isn't torture. I know plenty of people who have been in harms way in both Iraq and Afganistan and agree with not only is it not torture but a valuable tool they had. If America is holding a captive, then they have rights under our laws, whether they be a citizen or not, otherwise, how can we proclaim the right to pass sentence upon them? Your opinion would make you a terrorist to them! Should they ever kidnap you, you are saying it is ok if you are tortured because to them you are a terrorist by your own admission? So 2 wrongs make it right? I would think that canoe is at least 1 paddle short of a trip up river! Actually not if they are an enemy combatant they dont. |
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A lil water never hurt anyone and by the looks of those creeps they definately need a bath. Hate speech. Yup, I hate terrorists. As do 99% of all Americans, but most of us love the Constitution or Bill Of Rights that allows us a trial by a jury of our peers, represntation in that trial, and the belief that all are innocent till proven guilty! You torture someone, sure they'll say there guilty, and tell you anything you want to hear, and swear to it! You truely do dwell within the dark side! Your judgements are premature on unknown factors, and purely based on suspitions! Guilty till proven innocent...... NOT so American in my book or opinion! Well first of all the terrorists ARN'T Americans so the Constitution has no say in them. Second of all Waterboarding isn't torture. I know plenty of people who have been in harms way in both Iraq and Afganistan and agree with not only is it not torture but a valuable tool they had. If America is holding a captive, then they have rights under our laws, whether they be a citizen or not, otherwise, how can we proclaim the right to pass sentence upon them? Your opinion would make you a terrorist to them! Should they ever kidnap you, you are saying it is ok if you are tortured because to them you are a terrorist by your own admission? So 2 wrongs make it right? I would think that canoe is at least 1 paddle short of a trip up river! Actually not if they are an enemy combatant they dont. There must be a declaration of war to be enemy combatants. Until then, they are just prisoners, innocent till proven guilty by a jury of their peers! |
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A lil water never hurt anyone and by the looks of those creeps they definately need a bath. Hate speech. Yup, I hate terrorists. As do 99% of all Americans, but most of us love the Constitution or Bill Of Rights that allows us a trial by a jury of our peers, represntation in that trial, and the belief that all are innocent till proven guilty! You torture someone, sure they'll say there guilty, and tell you anything you want to hear, and swear to it! You truely do dwell within the dark side! Your judgements are premature on unknown factors, and purely based on suspitions! Guilty till proven innocent...... NOT so American in my book or opinion! Well first of all the terrorists ARN'T Americans so the Constitution has no say in them. Second of all Waterboarding isn't torture. I know plenty of people who have been in harms way in both Iraq and Afganistan and agree with not only is it not torture but a valuable tool they had. If America is holding a captive, then they have rights under our laws, whether they be a citizen or not, otherwise, how can we proclaim the right to pass sentence upon them? Your opinion would make you a terrorist to them! Should they ever kidnap you, you are saying it is ok if you are tortured because to them you are a terrorist by your own admission? So 2 wrongs make it right? I would think that canoe is at least 1 paddle short of a trip up river! Actually not if they are an enemy combatant they dont. There must be a declaration of war to be enemy combatants. Until then, they are just prisoners, innocent till proven guilty by a jury of their peers! Even Two Armies |
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Yeh, and the declaration of war on drugs or war on terror does not qualify people.
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Very well then. It is my opinion that was not a nice thing to say and it reflects badly on the person who said it. (Not talking about Yellowrose) yellowrose10 is a moderator to the site. She just tries to keep things civil by warning. It is/was hate speech. Not what the warning was for. In general opinions are allowed, abuse of the priviledge is not. It was not personal, simply a warning to some to better express themselves without the abuse factor included.  So, sojourning_soul, from your most recent opinion posted above, I guess you owe me an apology for your blatant insult to me for my previously posted opinion at the top of page 12. Or are you also one of those pompous, hypocrites that denies all others opinions in favor of yours? And if you've forgotten what you wrote, here it is in all its glory!: "This is one of the most idiotic diatribes I've read in a while! You should audition for the Bill O Really or Sean Wannabe show! Let me and my friends waterboard you, rather than your friends, and then repost this crap! If it's not torture, then why is/was it used, what could they possibly have garnered from it as far as usefull information, and why are we having this discussion? ANY murder or diress inflicted upon another is torturous to that person, and it happens every day.... so do we torture in return for the crimes committed? You are saying we should drop our Constitution and rule of law, become like 3rd world countries in our laws? Prick Cheney would be proud of you! Edited by Sojourning_Soul on Wed 11/16/11 03:37 AM" And sojourning_soul, to answer your question posted many times on this thread; water-boarding was used because it was extremely effective to gain life saving intelligence information because IT WORKS without causing pain or any lasting physical or emotional trauma. And for this reason I would have absolutely no problem taking you up on your offer to have you and your friends, if you really have any, perform water-boarding on me. Why? Because I know that it causes no pain or other permanent problems! I've gotten more water up my nose water-skiing and swimming. And finally, I am so thankful for the strong leaders in our country, past and up through the last Presidential administration who have had our military forces protect our country and its citizens from enemy advances and terrorist acts. I can only imagine with horror what would have become of the United States with leaders possessing bleeding heart opinions such as those expressed on this thread, we'd all be part of the British Commonwealth or worse, we'd be speaking the German or Japanese language! And by the way sojourning_soul, NICE SHIRT! Just my opinion. |
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"This is one of the most idiotic diatribes I've read in a while! He was not talking about you. He was talking about what you posted. People confused themselves with the diatribes they post. 
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And finally, I am so thankful for the strong leaders in our country, past and up through the last Presidential administration who have had our military forces protect our country and its citizens from enemy advances and terrorist acts. I can only imagine with horror what would have become of the United States with leaders possessing bleeding heart opinions such as those expressed on this thread, we'd all be part of the British Commonwealth or worse, we'd be speaking the German or Japanese language! So you like George Bush? That says a lot. |
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A lil water never hurt anyone and by the looks of those creeps they definately need a bath. Hate speech. Yup, I hate terrorists. As do 99% of all Americans, but most of us love the Constitution or Bill Of Rights that allows us a trial by a jury of our peers, represntation in that trial, and the belief that all are innocent till proven guilty! You torture someone, sure they'll say there guilty, and tell you anything you want to hear, and swear to it! You truely do dwell within the dark side! Your judgements are premature on unknown factors, and purely based on suspitions! Guilty till proven innocent...... NOT so American in my book or opinion! Well first of all the terrorists ARN'T Americans so the Constitution has no say in them. Second of all Waterboarding isn't torture. I know plenty of people who have been in harms way in both Iraq and Afganistan and agree with not only is it not torture but a valuable tool they had. Three major treaties that the United States has signed and unambiguously ratified prohibit the United States from subjecting prisoners in the War on Terror to this kind of treatment. First, Common Article 3 of the Geneva Convention Relative to the Treatment of Prisoners of War, which the Senate unanimously ratified in 1955, prohibits the parties to the treaty from acts upon prisoners including “violence to life and person, in particular murder of all kinds, mutilation, cruel treatment and torture; . . . outrages upon personal dignity, in particular, humiliating and degrading treatment.”[18] Second, the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, which the Senate ratified in 1992, states that “[n]o one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.”[19] Third, the United Nations Convention Against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment, which the Senate ratified in 1994, provides that “[e]ach State Party shall take effective legislative, administrative, judicial or other measures to prevent acts of torture in any territory under its jurisdiction,”[20] and that “[e]ach State Party shall undertake to prevent in any territory under its jurisdiction other acts of cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment which do not amount to torture . . . .”[21] The United States has enacted statutes prohibiting torture and cruel or inhuman treatment. It is these statutes which make waterboarding illegal.[22] The four principal statutes which Congress has adopted to implement the provisions of the foregoing treaties are the Torture Act,[23] the War Crimes Act,[24],and the laws entitled “Prohibition on Cruel, Inhuman, or Degrading Treatment or Punishment of Persons Under Custody or Control of the United States Government”[25] and “Additional Prohibition on Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment.”[26] The first two statutes are criminal laws while the latter two statutes extend civil rights to any person in the custody of the United States anywhere in the world. The Torture Act makes it a felony for any person, acting under color of law, to commit an act of torture upon any person within the defendant’s custody or control outside the United States.[27] Torture is defined as the intentional infliction of “severe physical or mental pain or suffering” upon a person within the defendant’s custody or control.[28] To be “severe,” any mental pain or suffering resulting from torture must be “prolonged.”[29] Under this law, torture is punishable by up to twenty years imprisonment unless the victim dies as a result of the torture, in which case the penalty is death or life in prison.[30] http://lawreview.wustl.edu/slip-opinions/waterboarding-is-illegal/ Even Hitler justified his persecution of the Jews but I doubt many people actualy bought into it. The Nazis would kill you if you spoke up here in Uber Umerika we use a softer touch, propaganda, far more effective since the misinformed among us actualy believe it. |
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And finally, I am so thankful for the strong leaders in our country, past and up through the last Presidential administration who have had our military forces protect our country and its citizens from enemy advances and terrorist acts. I can only imagine with horror what would have become of the United States with leaders possessing bleeding heart opinions such as those expressed on this thread, we'd all be part of the British Commonwealth or worse, we'd be speaking the German or Japanese language! So you like George Bush? That says a lot. So you dislike George Bush? That says even more. |
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Edited by
Seakolony
on
Fri 11/18/11 04:05 PM
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What's the difference between the Democrats and the Republicans?
< < < < < < < < < < < < < < < < < < < http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_d8C4AIFgUg That's right absolutely nothing!!!! |
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Fri 11/18/11 04:10 PM
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And finally, I am so thankful for the strong leaders in our country, past and up through the last Presidential administration who have had our military forces protect our country and its citizens from enemy advances and terrorist acts. I can only imagine with horror what would have become of the United States with leaders possessing bleeding heart opinions such as those expressed on this thread, we'd all be part of the British Commonwealth or worse, we'd be speaking the German or Japanese language! So you like George Bush? That says a lot. So you dislike George Bush? That says even more. As a person, he's a hoot. As a president he's crap. He stole the election twice. So he's a pretty good thief.  |
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A lil water never hurt anyone and by the looks of those creeps they definately need a bath. Hate speech. Yup, I hate terrorists. As do 99% of all Americans, but most of us love the Constitution or Bill Of Rights that allows us a trial by a jury of our peers, represntation in that trial, and the belief that all are innocent till proven guilty! You torture someone, sure they'll say there guilty, and tell you anything you want to hear, and swear to it! You truely do dwell within the dark side! Your judgements are premature on unknown factors, and purely based on suspitions! Guilty till proven innocent...... NOT so American in my book or opinion! Well first of all the terrorists ARN'T Americans so the Constitution has no say in them. Second of all Waterboarding isn't torture. I know plenty of people who have been in harms way in both Iraq and Afganistan and agree with not only is it not torture but a valuable tool they had. Wow. What part of 'self-evident' do you not understand. If a truth is self-evident... It holds also for my enemy. therefore the Constitution DOES apply. Partly correct. The Constitution allows Congress to set rules for war (and binds congress to certain rules for declaring war...which they've unfortunately surrendered to the executive). The Constitution also allows for agreements with other nations, including the rules of war-which torture violates. I am not speaking of rules for congress. I am speaking of intent of language. We hold these truths to be self-evident... (a bold statement) of the 'truths' listed is that ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL... If I hold to the Constitution then... My enemy is also entitled to fair protection under the law. BECASE A SELF-EVIDENT TRUTH IS THAT ALL MEN ARE EQUAL IN THE SIGHT OF GOD... not just those that are my friends. |
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And they wrote that while bragging how many slaves they owned....
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And they wrote that while bragging how many slaves they owned.... Yep... And while most of them could see a better way but not how to get there... Matters not what they did when they wrote it. Matter how WE perceive it in this day. there is no quibble in the words All Men... I perceive that to mean exactally that... Martin Luther King is, (imho) the equivelant of the Founding Fathers... Cause he found the better way. and made 'all men' mean 'all men'. |
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