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Topic: Can mary save?
no photo
Tue 11/13/12 06:16 PM



That, in a way, is a form of worship.




Worship, veneration, devotion, adoration. They are all different interiorly. You can't see the difference by watching someone's actions. It's how the person views and feels about the object of their affections. If you want to call it worship it matters not to me. I was just answering the OP's question.


Worship to me means to adore, (adoration) admire, look up to, like hero worship etc.

To worship someone such as a king or a god because you are at their mercy or fear them or ask them for help is a different kind of "worship."


Ruth34611's photo
Tue 11/13/12 07:03 PM



Worship to me means to adore, (adoration) admire, look up to, like hero worship etc.

To worship someone such as a king or a god because you are at their mercy or fear them or ask them for help is a different kind of "worship."




I agree that the words can be used interchangeably in many cases. That's why you have to ask the person doing the worshiping what they mean when they use the word. Catholics use "venerate" as a word to describe their treatment/view of saints to differentiate their treatment/view of God. It's all about the intention of the person.

I think the OP is wondering if some people (probably Catholics) believe that Mary can save a soul from Hell and if they worship her the same as God. And, the answer to both questions is no.


no photo
Tue 11/13/12 07:16 PM




Worship to me means to adore, (adoration) admire, look up to, like hero worship etc.

To worship someone such as a king or a god because you are at their mercy or fear them or ask them for help is a different kind of "worship."




I agree that the words can be used interchangeably in many cases. That's why you have to ask the person doing the worshiping what they mean when they use the word. Catholics use "venerate" as a word to describe their treatment/view of saints to differentiate their treatment/view of God. It's all about the intention of the person.

I think the OP is wondering if some people (probably Catholics) believe that Mary can save a soul from Hell and if they worship her the same as God. And, the answer to both questions is no.




Yes, the answer is "no" but I have known some Catholics when I was a child and they were pretty much unaware of Bible stories, and all they ever talked about was the Holy Mother Mary and their churches had statues of Mary instead of or along with Jesus on the cross etc. so I certainly do understand his question.

And many Catholics prayed to Mary and the saints. So it is hard to tell who they worship... except if you ask the question in an "official" capacity.

no photo
Tue 11/13/12 07:18 PM
The appearance of the worship of Mary in the Christian faith is a remnant of the worship of the goddess. Many who worshiped the goddess before converting or changing over to Christianity, recognized Mary as the goddess, and yes, they continued their worship of the goddess through her.


TBRich's photo
Tue 11/13/12 07:20 PM
It is commonly held belief among anthropolgists that the Church pushed Mary in order to accommodate regional goddess worship

no photo
Tue 11/13/12 07:23 PM
Edited by Jeanniebean on Tue 11/13/12 07:23 PM

It is commonly held belief among anthropolgists that the Church pushed Mary in order to accommodate regional goddess worship


Yes.

I read a novel about the holy grail and King Arthur and when the old goddess religion faded, and Christianity took over, the goddess worshipers recognized Mary as the new Goddess Icon. She just had a different name and was packaged differently.

Ruth34611's photo
Tue 11/13/12 07:36 PM

The appearance of the worship of Mary in the Christian faith is a remnant of the worship of the goddess. Many who worshiped the goddess before converting or changing over to Christianity, recognized Mary as the goddess, and yes, they continued their worship of the goddess through her.




I agree. However, Paganism is no longer punishable by death and I don't know any Pagans who practice Catholicism and worship Mary as a Goddess these days. They have long since reverted to the original Goddesses.

I assumed we were talking about Catholics in this day and age.

no photo
Tue 11/13/12 07:43 PM


The appearance of the worship of Mary in the Christian faith is a remnant of the worship of the goddess. Many who worshiped the goddess before converting or changing over to Christianity, recognized Mary as the goddess, and yes, they continued their worship of the goddess through her.




I agree. However, Paganism is no longer punishable by death and I don't know any Pagans who practice Catholicism and worship Mary as a Goddess these days. They have long since reverted to the original Goddesses.

I assumed we were talking about Catholics in this day and age.


I don't know that many Catholics these days LOL. But I bet there are some who worship Mary as the goddess without suspecting what they are actually doing.


Ruth34611's photo
Tue 11/13/12 07:52 PM


I don't know that many Catholics these days LOL. But I bet there are some who worship Mary as the goddess without suspecting what they are actually doing.




Well I guess you'll have to wait for one to come along.


no photo
Tue 11/13/12 08:04 PM



I don't know that many Catholics these days LOL. But I bet there are some who worship Mary as the goddess without suspecting what they are actually doing.




Well I guess you'll have to wait for one to come along.




I don't hang around with "church people" anymore.laugh

Dodo_David's photo
Tue 11/13/12 08:34 PM
Let's cut to the chase.

Roman Catholics do not worship Mary the same way that they worship Jesus. Sure, some of their beliefs about Mary are not supported by the Bible, but they do not worship Mary.


no photo
Wed 11/14/12 01:25 PM

Let's cut to the chase.

Roman Catholics do not worship Mary the same way that they worship Jesus. Sure, some of their beliefs about Mary are not supported by the Bible, but they do not worship Mary.




At least that is the official statement and they are sticking to it. LOL

no photo
Wed 11/14/12 01:41 PM
But what about Rhoda?

Dodo_David's photo
Wed 11/14/12 01:54 PM

But what about Rhoda?


Perhaps you should ask Lou Grant. :tongue:

Ruth34611's photo
Wed 11/14/12 03:07 PM


Let's cut to the chase.

Roman Catholics do not worship Mary the same way that they worship Jesus. Sure, some of their beliefs about Mary are not supported by the Bible, but they do not worship Mary.




At least that is the official statement and they are sticking to it. LOL


Most people pick and choose which tenets of their faith they are going to believe and practice. Christians agree on little outside what is stated in the Apostle's Creed. I don't think it matters as long as they are not using their religion to hurt others (this is directed at all faiths, not just Christianity).

I'm sure there are Catholics who do not know what the church teaches and therefore worship Mary. But, the OP will have to find one in order to answer his question.

no photo
Wed 11/14/12 03:23 PM



Let's cut to the chase.

Roman Catholics do not worship Mary the same way that they worship Jesus. Sure, some of their beliefs about Mary are not supported by the Bible, but they do not worship Mary.




At least that is the official statement and they are sticking to it. LOL


Most people pick and choose which tenets of their faith they are going to believe and practice. Christians agree on little outside what is stated in the Apostle's Creed. I don't think it matters as long as they are not using their religion to hurt others (this is directed at all faiths, not just Christianity).

I'm sure there are Catholics who do not know what the church teaches and therefore worship Mary. But, the OP will have to find one in order to answer his question.


How is it possible that there are Catholics that don't know what the church teaches?

My sister had to go to weeks of training classes just because she was planning on becoming Catholic to marry her boyfriend who was Catholic.

Are there Catholics who just don't go to church then, just like people who claim to be Christians who don't go to church?

Ruth34611's photo
Wed 11/14/12 03:40 PM
Edited by Ruth34611 on Wed 11/14/12 03:42 PM


How is it possible that there are Catholics that don't know what the church teaches?

My sister had to go to weeks of training classes just because she was planning on becoming Catholic to marry her boyfriend who was Catholic.

Are there Catholics who just don't go to church then, just like people who claim to be Christians who don't go to church?


Two weeks would barely scratch the surface of most religions. Regardless, Catholic converts tend to know much more than those raised Catholic for the very reason you listed. You have to take classes (usually months to a year) called catechism classes. Young children have to take catechism classes too in order to prepare for their first Holy Communion usually around age 7 or 8. But I'm sure you can imagine, most children that age do not remember what they were taught in those classes unless their families actually practice their faith at home. And most don't. A large percentage of Catholics (like non-Catholic Christians) go to church because that's how they were raised. Not because they know their Faith.

And, yes, many Catholics who call themselves Catholic but don't go to church.

no photo
Wed 11/14/12 03:51 PM



How is it possible that there are Catholics that don't know what the church teaches?

My sister had to go to weeks of training classes just because she was planning on becoming Catholic to marry her boyfriend who was Catholic.

Are there Catholics who just don't go to church then, just like people who claim to be Christians who don't go to church?


Two weeks would barely scratch the surface of most religions. Regardless, Catholic converts tend to know much more than those raised Catholic for the very reason you listed. You have to take classes (usually months to a year) called catechism classes. Young children have to take catechism classes too in order to prepare for their first Holy Communion usually around age 7 or 8. But I'm sure you can imagine, most children that age do not remember what they were taught in those classes unless their families actually practice their faith at home. And most don't. A large percentage of Catholics (like non-Catholic Christians) go to church because that's how they were raised. Not because they know their Faith.

And, yes, many Catholics who call themselves Catholic but don't go to church.


I meant "weeks" not "two weeks" She went to "weeks" of training. I don't know how many. I think she went to catechism for a few months then decided she was not going to marry the guy so she quit.

Ruth34611's photo
Wed 11/14/12 03:57 PM
Sorry, I read it wrong. Yes, that is why Catholic converts usually know more than Cradle Catholics.

Rexxiedavie's photo
Thu 11/15/12 08:12 AM
Its trully apprioprate ascribing honor or reverence to...lemme say bible saints like Mary,but it must not be overblown out of proportion,infact it shouldnt be an issue. All biblical characters had one role or the other to play in Gods supreme plan, thru the death of His dear son our Lord and Savior on the cross,to redeem,reconcile us back to Himself. God is the focus and the bible says that He is a jealous God,but He has highly exhaulted His son Jesus and given Him a name higher than any other name,that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow and all tongues confess His Kingship and Lordship. And Acts 4:12 says "neither is there salvation in any other:for theres none other name under heaven given among men whereby we must be saved." Shalom all.

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