The Preamble of the U.S. Constitution says the following:

"We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

The Preamble spells out the purpose of the U.S. Constitution, which in turn defines the job of the U.S. Government. The U.S. government is fine as long as it is doing its job as defined by the U.S. Constitution.

there are a lot of generalizations here metalshadow. Libertarians have the right idea I also think, but it is a matter of scale. The laws and bureaucracies that exist usually exist because there was a problem...often HUGE problem - like severe air & water pollution, species dying in piles because of DDT, or gripping poverty in the 1930s that was too large for private funding (and besides there is something to be said for not having to rely on private charity that may or may not be there tomorrow).

Anyway though, I agree in principle with the Libertarians on many things....like reducing income taxes .... and bueaucracy. And a plan to enforce existing laws to deal with large problems like illegals.

I think realistically what they need to work on is showing how their ideas will not allow a regression back to problems of the past.

And no, in my experience we cannot rely on the private sector....we don't want the robber barons back....industry simply will not regulate itself to behave responsibly. We are seeing that now with the Oil & Gas industries in the NE and Midwest.

Libertarians best bet in my opinion is too target clearly wasteful gov't spending, reducing foreign aid and reducing our military presence abroad.....afterall when Sharia law abuses someone, no one complains that the Canadians aren't "doing anything." So perhaps we should just as disintereted?

The Preamble of the U.S. Constitution says the following:

"We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

The Preamble spells out the purpose of the U.S. Constitution, which in turn defines the job of the U.S. Government. The U.S. government is fine as long as it is doing its job as defined by the U.S. Constitution.

The gripping poverty during the 1930 was extended because of the federal government getting involved. The depression that happen before the 1930s is never talked about because the government then got out the way and it quickly recovered. I remember coving it in history a little.

Yea we had water and air pollution and no one says we want to allow people to mess it up but now the EPA wants to regulate to have zero particulate matter in a work place. Not only impossible but also not even nature has zero particulate matter. And the areas that have the most harmful, humans don’t even live there.

Death Valley had a string of disasters form forest fires and flash floods that destroyed their water supply system. The Feds came in, saw a wheel barrel and said that is to mechanize, that they have to used a horse and shovel. And the claim they want to protect an owl, frog and butterfly at the cost of the town not having water. The thing is the owl, frog and butterfly left back during the fires and floods.

You say the charity may not be there tomorrow, the same can be said for government. Just because Government is there and says they have programs to help, does not mean you get it. Back during hurricane Katrina, Wal-Mart, churches and private business were already there to help the needy long before the federal government. The problem was the government got in the way telling Wal-mart that they could not bring truckload of bottle water to the people yet FEMA order ice and had it shipped to Maine and Arizona. Private Hotels were going to use their own busses to help people out of town but no; the government said they had to take them to the Super Dome.

Regression back to the past sounds bad when you think about slavery and oppression but that would be hard to do. But regression back to the past does not mean all that evil comes back but freedom. The government may be credit for many things because they past laws after private groups lead the charge.

Henry Ford was the first to start the assembly line and the forty-hour workweek. Other companies fallowed before the Government step in during the 1930s. Our first black speaker of the house was back in 1870 to 1879. Even back late 1700s individuals fought for the freedom of black but it was the government that oppressed them. Even during the civil rights movement, many private companies had already intergraded before the Government ever did anything. The Play Boy clubs where among the first.

The robbers barons don’t last long and in today would be brought down quickly do to fast information. John D Rockefeller was called a thief by the other oil producers because he found a way to get oil cheaper and sell it cheaper thus allowing the poor to afford it. By producing cheaper oil made it not as profitable to hunt whales for the oil to use for energy.

Again with the BP oil spill, the government used a 20 to 30 year old method to clean it up. Yet a private group set up a change to give a million dollars to who ever can come up with a better and faster way. The winning team was four times faster then what the government currently does. One guy came up with a gel that can be use to put out fires and local fire fighter have adopt but the federal has too many buddies that they refuse to use the guy’s better method.

Our medical prices keep rising do to both insurance and government, really rose this past January thanks to Obama care. Yet things like LASIK eye surgery, which has to be paid out of the pocket, has gone down in price. What use to be thousands of dollars is now as low as $500 per eye and the surgery has got better and safer.

I do agree that we don’t need to be over seas. Why is our army being the police in many countries, even European. We don’t need a base in Germany any more. We were not supposed to be nation build in Iraq.

The Preamble of the U.S. Constitution says the following:

"We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

The Preamble spells out the purpose of the U.S. Constitution, which in turn defines the job of the U.S. Government. The U.S. government is fine as long as it is doing its job as defined by the U.S. Constitution.


... which quit happening about 150 years ago i would say.

there are a lot of generalizations here metalshadow. Libertarians have the right idea I also think, but it is a matter of scale. The laws and bureaucracies that exist usually exist because there was a problem...often HUGE problem - like severe air & water pollution, species dying in piles because of DDT, or gripping poverty in the 1930s that was too large for private funding (and besides there is something to be said for not having to rely on private charity that may or may not be there tomorrow).

Anyway though, I agree in principle with the Libertarians on many things....like reducing income taxes .... and bueaucracy. And a plan to enforce existing laws to deal with large problems like illegals.

I think realistically what they need to work on is showing how their ideas will not allow a regression back to problems of the past.

And no, in my experience we cannot rely on the private sector....we don't want the robber barons back....industry simply will not regulate itself to behave responsibly. We are seeing that now with the Oil & Gas industries in the NE and Midwest.

Libertarians best bet in my opinion is too target clearly wasteful gov't spending, reducing foreign aid and reducing our military presence abroad.....afterall when Sharia law abuses someone, no one complains that the Canadians aren't "doing anything." So perhaps we should just as disintereted?

The gripping poverty during the 1930 was extended because of the federal government getting involved. The depression that happen before the 1930s is never talked about because the government then got out the way and it quickly recovered. I remember coving it in history a little.

Yea we had water and air pollution and no one says we want to allow people to mess it up but now the EPA wants to regulate to have zero particulate matter in a work place. Not only impossible but also not even nature has zero particulate matter. And the areas that have the most harmful, humans don’t even live there.

Death Valley had a string of disasters form forest fires and flash floods that destroyed their water supply system. The Feds came in, saw a wheel barrel and said that is to mechanize, that they have to used a horse and shovel. And the claim they want to protect an owl, frog and butterfly at the cost of the town not having water. The thing is the owl, frog and butterfly left back during the fires and floods.

You say the charity may not be there tomorrow, the same can be said for government. Just because Government is there and says they have programs to help, does not mean you get it. Back during hurricane Katrina, Wal-Mart, churches and private business were already there to help the needy long before the federal government. The problem was the government got in the way telling Wal-mart that they could not bring truckload of bottle water to the people yet FEMA order ice and had it shipped to Maine and Arizona. Private Hotels were going to use their own busses to help people out of town but no; the government said they had to take them to the Super Dome.

Regression back to the past sounds bad when you think about slavery and oppression but that would be hard to do. But regression back to the past does not mean all that evil comes back but freedom. The government may be credit for many things because they past laws after private groups lead the charge.

Henry Ford was the first to start the assembly line and the forty-hour workweek. Other companies fallowed before the Government step in during the 1930s. Our first black speaker of the house was back in 1870 to 1879. Even back late 1700s individuals fought for the freedom of black but it was the government that oppressed them. Even during the civil rights movement, many private companies had already intergraded before the Government ever did anything. The Play Boy clubs where among the first.

The robbers barons don’t last long and in today would be brought down quickly do to fast information. John D Rockefeller was called a thief by the other oil producers because he found a way to get oil cheaper and sell it cheaper thus allowing the poor to afford it. By producing cheaper oil made it not as profitable to hunt whales for the oil to use for energy.

Again with the BP oil spill, the government used a 20 to 30 year old method to clean it up. Yet a private group set up a change to give a million dollars to who ever can come up with a better and faster way. The winning team was four times faster then what the government currently does. One guy came up with a gel that can be use to put out fires and local fire fighter have adopt but the federal has too many buddies that they refuse to use the guy’s better method.

Our medical prices keep rising do to both insurance and government, really rose this past January thanks to Obama care. Yet things like LASIK eye surgery, which has to be paid out of the pocket, has gone down in price. What use to be thousands of dollars is now as low as $500 per eye and the surgery has got better and safer.

I do agree that we don’t need to be over seas. Why is our army being the police in many countries, even European. We don’t need a base in Germany any more. We were not supposed to be nation build in Iraq.

The problem is, our modern federal government is trying to skirt around the US Constitution.

One of the reason prices keeps going up is they are printing more money. Germany tried that after WWI and it end up costing a wheelbarrow full of dollar bills to by a loaf of bread. Also the cost of operation keeps going up with new regulations. Companies like Perdue have to hire a person to sit there and look at the chick as it comes through for anything wrong with the chick because the government requires it while Perdue has a test area where they check for bacteria that can cause food poisoning.

Also some rules require some goods like food products cannot be bought below a certain price. This is called a Price Floor. Other rules require part of a certain good be diverted for something else. This is what has happen to corn. The government wants to put it in our gas tanks, which is more environmentally harmful. Since some much corn has to be used for fuel, it cuts into the amount of corn that is sold for use to eat, feed livestock or make corn syrup for other food products. This also drives up this price of those products.

As for gas, it cost money to make all the different types and ethanol. California is so strict that they require a different blend then some of the other states. Also forever dollar that is collected for gas, about 6 cents is profit for the gas company while on average, 42 cents is taxes colleted by the government. It very from state to state but government is in no hurry to let the price of gas go down. Don’t forget that the Federal government didn’t want to build that pipeline from Canada to the gulf and risking Canada to sell it to China. Also why it is so hard to try and get the Feds, not only to approve new drilling permits, but to accept Natural Gas as a cheaper, cleaner choice.

a buddy of mine works for chevron... he told me their proffits last year 246 billion... do you think it costs that much for development? reminding people, that was pure profit, after they paid for everything you mentioned...

The Elite profit from high gas and oil prices and I don't think those are going to go down. A good alternative is to work close to home, or work at home. Live where you want to work.

The Elite want to have total control over food production, travel, education of your children, energy, the media, money and commerce.

The alternative is to be as self sufficient as possible and get out of debt. Start learning to trade and barter and cut the government out of getting a slice of your pie as much as possible.

Oh I have no doubt that their profit is in the billions but they do have a pretty big operation. But when you break it done to how much per dollar goes to profit, how much goes to cost of operation and how much is taxes collected, the Government makes the most off of high gas prices, where the companies have to pay employs, bills, fees, and more.

I have no problem with companies that make profit, but you got to take a look at the operation and cost. It is not like they stick a straw anywhere in the ground and gain lots of money. Just think about all the people the hire and pay.

Surveyors to go out and search for new supplies.
Construction workers that set up and build the equipment used.
Drillers to extract the oil.
Maintenance workers for repair.
Sectaries to handle paper work.
Transporters to deliver supplies both ways.
Insurance for workers and equipment.
Interest on stocks and loans to pay.
Basic utilities.
Processing and refinement of the product, plus the workers involved and their benefits.
Payroll Taxes.
Buying permits.

And I beat more then what I just named. Sure those companies make a lot of money, but look at all the people they employ only.

Still, the government profits the most for high gas prices. The government makes money from the taxes that are collected from the sell of gas, from paying the employees, from collecting fees for the permits.