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| Topic: Obama Care is Not Free! | |
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Edited by
Mortman
on
Fri 08/30/13 09:36 PM
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More insured people means more paid bills? Paid by whom? The newly insured won't be paying much, if anything. But all the TREMENDOUS cost of their treatment will cost someone! Guess who? Cost for them will go up greatly! Paid by insurance premiums. The ACA won't make more patients. Just make more of the patients covered. No losses to the hospitals from the people who didn't pay? Guess what! Those costs will now be paid by the "system" which is supported by guess who? The same taxpayers who will have to pay for everything else! By "The system" you mean the companies to whom we pay our insurance premiums. The taxpayers already pay for all the uninsured, when we have to pay for illnesses that have gotten worse because the previously sick decide to put off their visits until they can afford to pay their bills. Catch an infection early and it's a schedule of antibiotics. Catch it late, and it's much more expensive and possibly deadly. As it is, now, customers pay in the form of higher bills the hospitals have to charge to make up for the losses of the cheapskates showing up at the ER. (This is rich!) People who pay more than 8% of their income will have all the additional costs paid by the government? Who do you think supplies the government with money for this farce? It is no cost because the government pays for it? What a joke! OK. So cry about expenses, but we're already spend hundreds of $billions to bail out Wall Street firms. I have no problem spending something on my fellow citizens. The mandate remove caps! So that lowers costs? Are you crazy? That drives costs through the roof which is why caps are there in the first place! The same is true of existing conditions like AIDS or cancer. The costs will now skyrocket because there are no limits. Newsflash! Caps on out of pocket costs drive up costs to the system. Caps on coverage drive down costs to the system. Caps were there in the first place because insurance companies could get away with it. The actual cost of removing caps is not all that much. where it matters is to the people who get driven into bankruptcy from medical bills. But if you know so much, show me where insurance costs will skyrocket due to removing lifetime caps. Keep in mind, that as it goes, now, insurance companies rake in $billions in profits and spend $billions on a system of denying coverage due to "pre-existing conditions" Wait till the 30 million illegals get access to the system. Personally, I wouldn't mind. It would be more humane of us to make sure every person gets the care they need, regardless of the color of their skin or ID card, but we'll have to leave the 30 million undocumented immigrants for another debate, because they're not covered yet, and nothing like that is likely to happen, any time soon. There are many ways to improve the system. Obamacare isn't one of them. Wait. Obamacare IS one of them. LOL. As much as you hate the ACA, it still succeeds in letting tens of millions of Americans get health insurance, where they couldn't before. It eliminates the pre-existing condition exclusions and some other factors that directly led to most personal bankruptcies in America. We just haven't seen any better ideas succeed. The other ways to improve the system were killed in the debate leading up to the vote on the ACA. Personally, I'd like to see a public option for medical insurance or better yet, a full, government health system. However, I'd happily debate any ideas you've got that are better. |
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Yes I read it, it's called comprehension of what you are reading not just picking bits and pieces. Oh but what would we know about reading something in its enitierty because it wasn't done with the ACA and thus all these unintended consicuences. So it's going to cost the family more because they will have to pay for separate single health plans instead of a family plan. And what was their reasoning for doing this? Lol you think it will just be those 15,000? Because no other companies will do it. UPS does have a union ever heard of the teamsters? |
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At the end of the tax year most will just opt to pay the tax penalty, which is what I intend to do. Cheaper to keep my insurance the way it is now.
Some may not pay taxes at all. 
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More insured people means more paid bills? Paid by whom? The newly insured won't be paying much, if anything. But all the TREMENDOUS cost of their treatment will cost someone! Guess who? Cost for them will go up greatly! Paid by insurance premiums. The ACA won't make more patients. Just make more of the patients covered. No losses to the hospitals from the people who didn't pay? Guess what! Those costs will now be paid by the "system" which is supported by guess who? The same taxpayers who will have to pay for everything else! By "The system" you mean the companies to whom we pay our insurance premiums. The taxpayers already pay for all the uninsured, when we have to pay for illnesses that have gotten worse because the previously sick decide to put off their visits until they can afford to pay their bills. Catch an infection early and it's a schedule of antibiotics. Catch it late, and it's much more expensive and possibly deadly. As it is, now, customers pay in the form of higher bills the hospitals have to charge to make up for the losses of the cheapskates showing up at the ER. (This is rich!) People who pay more than 8% of their income will have all the additional costs paid by the government? Who do you think supplies the government with money for this farce? It is no cost because the government pays for it? What a joke! OK. So cry about expenses, but we're already spend hundreds of $billions to bail out Wall Street firms. I have no problem spending something on my fellow citizens. The mandate remove caps! So that lowers costs? Are you crazy? That drives costs through the roof which is why caps are there in the first place! The same is true of existing conditions like AIDS or cancer. The costs will now skyrocket because there are no limits. Newsflash! Caps on out of pocket costs drive up costs to the system. Caps on coverage drive down costs to the system. Caps were there in the first place because insurance companies could get away with it. The actual cost of removing caps is not all that much. where it matters is to the people who get driven into bankruptcy from medical bills. But if you know so much, show me where insurance costs will skyrocket due to removing lifetime caps. Keep in mind, that as it goes, now, insurance companies rake in $billions in profits and spend $billions on a system of denying coverage due to "pre-existing conditions" Wait till the 30 million illegals get access to the system. Personally, I wouldn't mind. It would be more humane of us to make sure every person gets the care they need, regardless of the color of their skin or ID card, but we'll have to leave the 30 million undocumented immigrants for another debate, because they're not covered yet, and nothing like that is likely to happen, any time soon. There are many ways to improve the system. Obamacare isn't one of them. Wait. Obamacare IS one of them. LOL. As much as you hate the ACA, it still succeeds in letting tens of millions of Americans get health insurance, where they couldn't before. It eliminates the pre-existing condition exclusions and some other factors that directly led to most personal bankruptcies in America. We just haven't seen any better ideas succeed. The other ways to improve the system were killed in the debate leading up to the vote on the ACA. Personally, I'd like to see a public option for medical insurance or better yet, a full, government health system. However, I'd happily debate any ideas you've got that are better. It's superior to anything those Dolts in Congress came up with! 
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More insured people means more paid bills? Paid by whom? The newly insured won't be paying much, if anything. But all the TREMENDOUS cost of their treatment will cost someone! Guess who? Cost for them will go up greatly! Paid by insurance premiums. The ACA won't make more patients. Just make more of the patients covered. No losses to the hospitals from the people who didn't pay? Guess what! Those costs will now be paid by the "system" which is supported by guess who? The same taxpayers who will have to pay for everything else! By "The system" you mean the companies to whom we pay our insurance premiums. The taxpayers already pay for all the uninsured, when we have to pay for illnesses that have gotten worse because the previously sick decide to put off their visits until they can afford to pay their bills. Catch an infection early and it's a schedule of antibiotics. Catch it late, and it's much more expensive and possibly deadly. As it is, now, customers pay in the form of higher bills the hospitals have to charge to make up for the losses of the cheapskates showing up at the ER. (This is rich!) People who pay more than 8% of their income will have all the additional costs paid by the government? Who do you think supplies the government with money for this farce? It is no cost because the government pays for it? What a joke! OK. So cry about expenses, but we're already spend hundreds of $billions to bail out Wall Street firms. I have no problem spending something on my fellow citizens. The mandate remove caps! So that lowers costs? Are you crazy? That drives costs through the roof which is why caps are there in the first place! The same is true of existing conditions like AIDS or cancer. The costs will now skyrocket because there are no limits. Newsflash! Caps on out of pocket costs drive up costs to the system. Caps on coverage drive down costs to the system. Caps were there in the first place because insurance companies could get away with it. The actual cost of removing caps is not all that much. where it matters is to the people who get driven into bankruptcy from medical bills. But if you know so much, show me where insurance costs will skyrocket due to removing lifetime caps. Keep in mind, that as it goes, now, insurance companies rake in $billions in profits and spend $billions on a system of denying coverage due to "pre-existing conditions" Wait till the 30 million illegals get access to the system. Personally, I wouldn't mind. It would be more humane of us to make sure every person gets the care they need, regardless of the color of their skin or ID card, but we'll have to leave the 30 million undocumented immigrants for another debate, because they're not covered yet, and nothing like that is likely to happen, any time soon. There are many ways to improve the system. Obamacare isn't one of them. Wait. Obamacare IS one of them. LOL. As much as you hate the ACA, it still succeeds in letting tens of millions of Americans get health insurance, where they couldn't before. It eliminates the pre-existing condition exclusions and some other factors that directly led to most personal bankruptcies in America. We just haven't seen any better ideas succeed. The other ways to improve the system were killed in the debate leading up to the vote on the ACA. Personally, I'd like to see a public option for medical insurance or better yet, a full, government health system. However, I'd happily debate any ideas you've got that are better. It's superior to anything those Dolts in Congress came up with! Don't know anything about the Swiss plan...but anything is better then ObamaSCARE. |
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More insured people means more paid bills? Paid by whom? The newly insured won't be paying much, if anything. But all the TREMENDOUS cost of their treatment will cost someone! Guess who? Cost for them will go up greatly! Paid by insurance premiums. The ACA won't make more patients. Just make more of the patients covered. No losses to the hospitals from the people who didn't pay? Guess what! Those costs will now be paid by the "system" which is supported by guess who? The same taxpayers who will have to pay for everything else! By "The system" you mean the companies to whom we pay our insurance premiums. The taxpayers already pay for all the uninsured, when we have to pay for illnesses that have gotten worse because the previously sick decide to put off their visits until they can afford to pay their bills. Catch an infection early and it's a schedule of antibiotics. Catch it late, and it's much more expensive and possibly deadly. As it is, now, customers pay in the form of higher bills the hospitals have to charge to make up for the losses of the cheapskates showing up at the ER. (This is rich!) People who pay more than 8% of their income will have all the additional costs paid by the government? Who do you think supplies the government with money for this farce? It is no cost because the government pays for it? What a joke! OK. So cry about expenses, but we're already spend hundreds of $billions to bail out Wall Street firms. I have no problem spending something on my fellow citizens. The mandate remove caps! So that lowers costs? Are you crazy? That drives costs through the roof which is why caps are there in the first place! The same is true of existing conditions like AIDS or cancer. The costs will now skyrocket because there are no limits. Newsflash! Caps on out of pocket costs drive up costs to the system. Caps on coverage drive down costs to the system. Caps were there in the first place because insurance companies could get away with it. The actual cost of removing caps is not all that much. where it matters is to the people who get driven into bankruptcy from medical bills. But if you know so much, show me where insurance costs will skyrocket due to removing lifetime caps. Keep in mind, that as it goes, now, insurance companies rake in $billions in profits and spend $billions on a system of denying coverage due to "pre-existing conditions" Wait till the 30 million illegals get access to the system. Personally, I wouldn't mind. It would be more humane of us to make sure every person gets the care they need, regardless of the color of their skin or ID card, but we'll have to leave the 30 million undocumented immigrants for another debate, because they're not covered yet, and nothing like that is likely to happen, any time soon. There are many ways to improve the system. Obamacare isn't one of them. Wait. Obamacare IS one of them. LOL. As much as you hate the ACA, it still succeeds in letting tens of millions of Americans get health insurance, where they couldn't before. It eliminates the pre-existing condition exclusions and some other factors that directly led to most personal bankruptcies in America. We just haven't seen any better ideas succeed. The other ways to improve the system were killed in the debate leading up to the vote on the ACA. Personally, I'd like to see a public option for medical insurance or better yet, a full, government health system. However, I'd happily debate any ideas you've got that are better. It's superior to anything those Dolts in Congress came up with! Exactly correct! The US could learn from other nations what works and what doesn't. Our systems don't work in many areas. We should copy the British education system in the process... and the Russian border patrol! 
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Install the Swiss Health-System! It's superior to anything those Dolts in Congress came up with! |
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Edited by
alleoops
on
Sun 09/01/13 02:21 PM
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Install the Swiss Health-System! It's superior to anything those Dolts in Congress came up with! At the end of the tax year most will just opt to pay the tax penalty, which is what I intend to do. Cheaper to keep my insurance the way it is now. Some may not pay taxes at all.   |
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Edited by
Conrad_73
on
Sun 09/01/13 02:50 PM
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Install the Swiss Health-System! It's superior to anything those Dolts in Congress came up with! Yep,Sunshine,The Free Market,NOT the IRS! Actually,it's quite simple! It is between me,my Doctor and the Insurance-Company,NO Government-Involvement! Your Obamacare isn't about Healthcare,but simply an increase in Government-Power! Besides,I wouldn't want my Dog to be insured under Obamination-Care!
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Install the Swiss Health-System! It's superior to anything those Dolts in Congress came up with! Yep,Sunshine,The Free Market,NOT the IRS! Actually,it's quite simple! It is between me,my Doctor and the Insurance-Company,NO Government-Involvement! Your Obamacare isn't about Healthcare,but simply an increase in Government-Power! Besides,I wouldn't want my Dog to be insured under Obamination-Care! Some people just can't get it through their thick skulls, OBAMACARE IS A TAX, A SUBSTANTIAL TAX...
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Install the Swiss Health-System! It's superior to anything those Dolts in Congress came up with! Yep,Sunshine,The Free Market,NOT the IRS! Actually,it's quite simple! It is between me,my Doctor and the Insurance-Company,NO Government-Involvement! Your Obamacare isn't about Healthcare,but simply an increase in Government-Power! Besides,I wouldn't want my Dog to be insured under Obamination-Care! Some people just can't get it through their thick skulls, OBAMACARE IS A TAX, A SUBSTANTIAL TAX... 
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From Forbes
Begin Quote: Comparing Swiss health care to that of wealthy U.S. states The Swiss consumer-driven health care system achieves important, positive results. The general health of the Swiss population is at least as high as that of the U.S. population, while costs and rates of inflation are 40 percent lower as a percentage of the economy. Furthermore, Switzerland has universal coverage, unlike the United States, where more than 40 million people are uninsured. Swiss health care expenses are considerably lower than not only those of the United States as a whole but also than those of U.S. states with comparable income, levels of education, and race and ethnicity—characteristics that profoundly affect health status. Similarly, the Swiss outcomes for diseases like diabetes, which are linked to the socioeconomic characteristics above, are roughly equal or better. Yet the Swiss generally have more of the resources that are typically considered in cross-national comparisons—such as hospital beds, physicians, and costly diagnostic and therapeutic equipment—than Canada, the United Kingdom, and even the United States. Last, Swiss physicians are well compensated, although not quite as well as U.S. physicians. (Most other comparisons of U.S. health care outcomes to those of developed European countries fail to adjust for substantial differences in the sociodemographic characteristics among them, such as levels of education, ethnic composition, and income. Because health status is considerably affected by such characteristics, the value of the comparisons in isolating the impact of the health care system on outcomes is limited. The analysis herein, in contrast, compares Switzerland to the U.S. states that most resemble it, such as Connecticut and Massachusetts.) |
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Some people just can't get it through their thick skulls, OBAMACARE IS A TAX, A SUBSTANTIAL TAX... It's not just a tax. It's not even a single tax. It levies a tax on medical equipment manufacturers and tanning beds, for example. The individual mandate tax is simply a method for recouping expenses from people who can afford health insurance, but rather choose to lay their risk on the rest of society. That's not all there is, though. The best parts of Obamacare is where it stops insurance companies from abusing their customers, and lets consumers shop for insurance in an online marketplace where they can price policies side-by-side. The "thick skull" crack was uncalled-for, especially bearing in mind your overly simplistic, and crass observation. |
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Some people just can't get it through their thick skulls, OBAMACARE IS A TAX, A SUBSTANTIAL TAX... It's not just a tax. It's not even a single tax. It levies a tax on medical equipment manufacturers and tanning beds, for example. The individual mandate tax is simply a method for recouping expenses from people who can afford health insurance, but rather choose to lay their risk on the rest of society. That's not all there is, though. The best parts of Obamacare is where it stops insurance companies from abusing their customers, and lets consumers shop for insurance in an online marketplace where they can price policies side-by-side. The "thick skull" crack was uncalled-for, especially bearing in mind your overly simplistic, and crass observation. Hey Mort, you lost me when you said you read the bill in its entirety  ...You're 100% correct, it's not "even a single tax", it's a combination of several taxes, the most damning of which had to be declared a tax just to pass constitutionality....
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Some people just can't get it through their thick skulls, OBAMACARE IS A TAX, A SUBSTANTIAL TAX... It's not just a tax. It's not even a single tax. It levies a tax on medical equipment manufacturers and tanning beds, for example. The individual mandate tax is simply a method for recouping expenses from people who can afford health insurance, but rather choose to lay their risk on the rest of society. That's not all there is, though. The best parts of Obamacare is where it stops insurance companies from abusing their customers, and lets consumers shop for insurance in an online marketplace where they can price policies side-by-side. The "thick skull" crack was uncalled-for, especially bearing in mind your overly simplistic, and crass observation. I find it "simplistic" and disingenuous that you use tanning beds as an example. The tax on medical devices also includes things like diabetic testing devices, medical valves used in surgeries, Intravenous valves, prosthetic devices and limbs among a host of other things that make everything more expensive to the health consumer. |
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It's a tax that taxes taxes.
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The joke is that anybody thinks Obamacare is going to make healthcare cost less...
... only to those who don't pay for it. |
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The joke is that anybody thinks Obamacare is going to make healthcare cost less... ... only to those who don't pay for it. This is true. It is for those people who can't afford the ridiculous price of healthcare today... which are a lot of people. So.... are you saying only those in the upper middle class will have to foot the bill? Isn't it just basically more socialism, or communism? |
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
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Mon 09/02/13 09:01 PM
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On the other hand, if the government wants the support of the people, and of the working class, shouldn't the people have affordable health care or even free health care?
(The master has the responsibility to take care of his slaves doesn't he? That is, if he wants them to do good work...) |
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The joke is that anybody thinks Obamacare is going to make healthcare cost less... ... only to those who don't pay for it. This is true. It is for those people who can't afford the ridiculous price of healthcare today... which are a lot of people. So.... are you saying only those in the upper middle class will have to foot the bill? Isn't it just basically more socialism, or communism? Yes it is a form of socialism. But it is more "take from the young working class and give to the non-working class" than "rich to poor". But it is to be run by the IRS, so what could go wrong? |
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