Topic: The Other Side of Chivalry
DavidCommaGeek's photo
Fri 05/08/15 08:11 AM
Edited by DavidCommaGeek on Fri 05/08/15 08:17 AM
In my survey of dating sites across the internet, I have come across a consistent, rampant misunderstanding of feudal chivalry, its use in modern times, and its application for females. While it is neither my responsibility nor my obligation to correct this misunderstanding, it will not persist based on my lack of trying to spread more accurate information about chivalry.
I found the three articles I link below using the search term "��the female role in feudal chivalry"�� �- terms which I hope will avoid bias that may have arisen by using terms like the "��passive"�� female role, or the "controlling"�� female role. The results are three of the top seven returns, avoiding sites like Wikipedia, which I think would only compound the misunderstanding.

http://chivalrytoday.com/women-chivalry/

http://chivalrytoday.com/women-and-chivalry/

http://www.usna.edu/Users/history/abels/hh315/Chivalry.htm

While the first two articles are not very good -�� they do not go into detail or provide (literary, historical) examples of exactly what women did as part of chivalry - they both agree on an important point: chivalry did not reduce women to a passive or servile role either then or now.
If you take the time to scroll through the third article (an academic one, so be prepared for a read), you�'ll get a much better-supported argument for exactly what chivalry meant for medieval practitioners. If you read just part I, Abels discusses the modern re-creation of chivalry and how it was interpreted by Victorian morality. If you continue on to V.2, V.3 and VI, Abels goes into the courtly demands on knights, which is mostly where the modern confusion centers on. ("Chivalry"�� defined as being polite and nice to women, as opposed to having feudal obligations and courtly manners.)

To sum up a definition of chivalry, it is: a guiding set of principles that governed how a lower-rank noble was to interact with his feudal lord, behave at court, and manage his social inferiors.
To sum up chivalry as it applied to women of the time, women were to provide judgment, wisdom, and guidance (as decided by social consensus), and to moderate and guide violence to serve more constructive ends.

Now, I don'��t much care if this changes your perception of chivalry, or the respective roles of males and females within the structure of chivalry. I suspect most people are going to either ignore the information here, or pick it apart to help "��prove"�� their own gender-biased agenda. I'm just putting this out here so there'��s a slightly clearer understanding of what the term meant, and how bastardized it has become.

no photo
Fri 05/08/15 08:30 AM

("Chivalry"�� defined as being polite and nice to women, as opposed to having feudal obligations and courtly manners.)



i think it ought to be defined as being well-mannered and giving due consideration towards everyone

no photo
Fri 05/08/15 09:58 AM
I don't mean to sound ageist. Just something I've observed. Women and men, who say they want old-fashioned chivalry, should maybe date a man or woman, who are older than them. One man once said to me "I'm old enough to be your grandad" , but I didn't see it that way. Someone who was born in the fifties, might know much more about being traditional or chivalrous. Whereas, someone who was born in the nineties, might never have come across it, so no wonder some don't have it.

no photo
Fri 05/08/15 09:48 PM
My father always told me to "Always open the door and let the women go first, because you never know what's on the other side of the door." So now I hold the door for everyone, male and female.

Goofball73's photo
Sat 05/09/15 08:09 PM
I thought chivalry meant that you politely asked her for permission to insert it into her butt?

no photo
Sat 05/09/15 08:13 PM

I thought chivalry meant that you politely asked her for permission to insert it into her butt?


I just spit my coffee..lmao.:laughing:

Rock's photo
Sat 05/09/15 08:17 PM
Its still amusing,
that so many people confuse "chivalry",
with what was actually the Cavalier era.

:laughing:

Dodo_David's photo
Sat 05/09/15 08:25 PM

Its still amusing,
that so many people confuse "chivalry",
with what was actually the Cavalier era.

:laughing:


huh Cavalier?



You Humans continue to confuse me.

Rock's photo
Sat 05/09/15 08:59 PM
Edited by Rock on Sat 05/09/15 09:03 PM


Its still amusing,
that so many people confuse "chivalry",
with what was actually the Cavalier era.

:laughing:


huh Cavalier?



You Humans continue to confuse me.


Google ' age of cavaliers'.


Eta:
I forgot that Melmacians have certain car fetishes.
:laughing:

Dodo_David's photo
Sat 05/09/15 09:04 PM



Its still amusing,
that so many people confuse "chivalry",
with what was actually the Cavalier era.

:laughing:


huh Cavalier?



You Humans continue to confuse me.


Google ' age of cavaliers'.


Eta:
I forgot that Melmacians have certain car fetishes.
:laughing:


huh You want me to find out how old those cars are?

stueebaby's photo
Sat 05/09/15 09:08 PM
Edited by stueebaby on Sat 05/09/15 09:13 PM


("Chivalry"�� defined as being polite and nice to women, as opposed to having feudal obligations and courtly manners.)



i think it ought to be defined as being well-mannered and giving due consideration towards everyone
Placing My Red Cape Over A Large PotHole , So You Can Pass My Lady ? :-) flowers :wink: laugh

no photo
Sat 05/09/15 09:56 PM



("Chivalry"�� defined as being polite and nice to women, as opposed to having feudal obligations and courtly manners.)



i think it ought to be defined as being well-mannered and giving due consideration towards everyone
Placing My Red Cape Over A Large PotHole , So You Can Pass My Lady ? :-) flowers :wink: laugh


Nooo...that means you'd have to carry me properly and safely across..blushing :tongue: bigsmile

Dodo_David's photo
Sun 05/10/15 04:12 AM

Placing My Red Cape Over A Large PotHole , So You Can Pass My Lady ? :-) flowers :wink: laugh


No capes. Didn't you ever watch the movie The Incredibles?


no photo
Sun 05/10/15 04:18 AM

In my survey of dating sites across the internet, I have come across a consistent, rampant misunderstanding of feudal chivalry, its use in modern times, and its application for females. While it is neither my responsibility nor my obligation to correct this misunderstanding, it will not persist based on my lack of trying to spread more accurate information about chivalry.
I found the three articles I link below using the search term "��the female role in feudal chivalry"�� �- terms which I hope will avoid bias that may have arisen by using terms like the "��passive"�� female role, or the "controlling"�� female role. The results are three of the top seven returns, avoiding sites like Wikipedia, which I think would only compound the misunderstanding.

http://chivalrytoday.com/women-chivalry/

http://chivalrytoday.com/women-and-chivalry/

http://www.usna.edu/Users/history/abels/hh315/Chivalry.htm

While the first two articles are not very good -�� they do not go into detail or provide (literary, historical) examples of exactly what women did as part of chivalry - they both agree on an important point: chivalry did not reduce women to a passive or servile role either then or now.
If you take the time to scroll through the third article (an academic one, so be prepared for a read), you�'ll get a much better-supported argument for exactly what chivalry meant for medieval practitioners. If you read just part I, Abels discusses the modern re-creation of chivalry and how it was interpreted by Victorian morality. If you continue on to V.2, V.3 and VI, Abels goes into the courtly demands on knights, which is mostly where the modern confusion centers on. ("Chivalry"�� defined as being polite and nice to women, as opposed to having feudal obligations and courtly manners.)

To sum up a definition of chivalry, it is: a guiding set of principles that governed how a lower-rank noble was to interact with his feudal lord, behave at court, and manage his social inferiors.
To sum up chivalry as it applied to women of the time, women were to provide judgment, wisdom, and guidance (as decided by social consensus), and to moderate and guide violence to serve more constructive ends.

Now, I don'��t much care if this changes your perception of chivalry, or the respective roles of males and females within the structure of chivalry. I suspect most people are going to either ignore the information here, or pick it apart to help "��prove"�� their own gender-biased agenda. I'm just putting this out here so there'��s a slightly clearer understanding of what the term meant, and how bastardized it has become.


The word " Female" in the place of "women".... isn't helping anyone.
noway

Dodo_David's photo
Sun 05/10/15 04:28 AM


In my survey of dating sites across the internet, I have come across a consistent, rampant misunderstanding of feudal chivalry, its use in modern times, and its application for females. While it is neither my responsibility nor my obligation to correct this misunderstanding, it will not persist based on my lack of trying to spread more accurate information about chivalry.
I found the three articles I link below using the search term "��the female role in feudal chivalry"�� �- terms which I hope will avoid bias that may have arisen by using terms like the "��passive"�� female role, or the "controlling"�� female role. The results are three of the top seven returns, avoiding sites like Wikipedia, which I think would only compound the misunderstanding.

http://chivalrytoday.com/women-chivalry/

http://chivalrytoday.com/women-and-chivalry/

http://www.usna.edu/Users/history/abels/hh315/Chivalry.htm

While the first two articles are not very good -�� they do not go into detail or provide (literary, historical) examples of exactly what women did as part of chivalry - they both agree on an important point: chivalry did not reduce women to a passive or servile role either then or now.
If you take the time to scroll through the third article (an academic one, so be prepared for a read), you�'ll get a much better-supported argument for exactly what chivalry meant for medieval practitioners. If you read just part I, Abels discusses the modern re-creation of chivalry and how it was interpreted by Victorian morality. If you continue on to V.2, V.3 and VI, Abels goes into the courtly demands on knights, which is mostly where the modern confusion centers on. ("Chivalry"�� defined as being polite and nice to women, as opposed to having feudal obligations and courtly manners.)

To sum up a definition of chivalry, it is: a guiding set of principles that governed how a lower-rank noble was to interact with his feudal lord, behave at court, and manage his social inferiors.
To sum up chivalry as it applied to women of the time, women were to provide judgment, wisdom, and guidance (as decided by social consensus), and to moderate and guide violence to serve more constructive ends.

Now, I don'��t much care if this changes your perception of chivalry, or the respective roles of males and females within the structure of chivalry. I suspect most people are going to either ignore the information here, or pick it apart to help "��prove"�� their own gender-biased agenda. I'm just putting this out here so there'��s a slightly clearer understanding of what the term meant, and how bastardized it has become.


The word " Female" in the place of "women".... isn't helping anyone.
noway


That's right. They are damsels. Get with the program. :tongue:

Justfun_1's photo
Sun 05/10/15 04:31 AM


In my survey of dating sites across the internet, I have come across a consistent, rampant misunderstanding of feudal chivalry, its use in modern times, and its application for females. While it is neither my responsibility nor my obligation to correct this misunderstanding, it will not persist based on my lack of trying to spread more accurate information about chivalry.
I found the three articles I link below using the search term "��the female role in feudal chivalry"�� �- terms which I hope will avoid bias that may have arisen by using terms like the "��passive"�� female role, or the "controlling"�� female role. The results are three of the top seven returns, avoiding sites like Wikipedia, which I think would only compound the misunderstanding.

http://chivalrytoday.com/women-chivalry/

http://chivalrytoday.com/women-and-chivalry/

http://www.usna.edu/Users/history/abels/hh315/Chivalry.htm

While the first two articles are not very good -�� they do not go into detail or provide (literary, historical) examples of exactly what women did as part of chivalry - they both agree on an important point: chivalry did not reduce women to a passive or servile role either then or now.
If you take the time to scroll through the third article (an academic one, so be prepared for a read), you�'ll get a much better-supported argument for exactly what chivalry meant for medieval practitioners. If you read just part I, Abels discusses the modern re-creation of chivalry and how it was interpreted by Victorian morality. If you continue on to V.2, V.3 and VI, Abels goes into the courtly demands on knights, which is mostly where the modern confusion centers on. ("Chivalry"�� defined as being polite and nice to women, as opposed to having feudal obligations and courtly manners.)

To sum up a definition of chivalry, it is: a guiding set of principles that governed how a lower-rank noble was to interact with his feudal lord, behave at court, and manage his social inferiors.
To sum up chivalry as it applied to women of the time, women were to provide judgment, wisdom, and guidance (as decided by social consensus), and to moderate and guide violence to serve more constructive ends.

Now, I don'��t much care if this changes your perception of chivalry, or the respective roles of males and females within the structure of chivalry. I suspect most people are going to either ignore the information here, or pick it apart to help "��prove"�� their own gender-biased agenda. I'm just putting this out here so there'��s a slightly clearer understanding of what the term meant, and how bastardized it has become.


The word " Female" in the place of "women".... isn't helping anyone.
noway
Indeed.Or if we are to be traditional in our chivalry,shouldn't the word be 'lady' ?

no photo
Sun 05/10/15 04:36 AM
no capes...got it. :wink:


no photo
Sun 05/10/15 04:57 AM
"Female" is mentioned FIVE times.
My brain turned off. frustrated
Female:What? Fetus? a 12 yr old? a 120 yrs old woman? A dolphin? A raccoon?

IgorFrankensteen's photo
Mon 05/11/15 04:24 PM


The more important thing to recognize with ALL the various things that so many people repeatedly talk about on dating sites, especially including Chivalry, is that they aren't EVER talking about what they think they are.

Chivalry is another "Big Block" word to most people. Like "Justice" and "Freedom" and so on. Most people never think through what any of the "Big Block" words actually mean, which is why they chant them even as you watch them attack and destroy the very things they claim to be defending.

In the case of Chivalry, what most people use the concept for, is as a way to make a vague demand that they be treated whatever way they want to be treated. They really don't care what Chivalry actually means, they just want to use it like a shield, or a pokey stick.

Telling them what it really means will just cause them to frown, scrunch their eyebrows together for a minute, and then start jabbering away again about how they wish Chivalry wasn't dead, so they could get people to behave the way they want.


regularfeller's photo
Mon 05/11/15 08:30 PM
Call it what you will but all I know is I like girls and I try to be nice to them.