From the Washington Post:



http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/wp/2016/11/01/the-everyday-trauma-of-being-a-black-man-in-america/?utm_term=.b7eb71818323

also poignant from a black american female perspective

http://www.forharriet.com/2014/07/i-too-sing-america-finding-peace-with.html#axzz4eexblvjl

just for those who care to read about how another person experiences life,,,,,poignant

I can't see the other article, it's blocked by advertising.

The details of something like this are of tremendous importance. In general, I have sympathy for all of my fellow beings, because just existing is a struggle.

When it comes to racial or gender related concerns, things can get tricky to discuss, because there are political and social entanglements aplenty, interwoven with every aspect of it all.

My response to the quote here, is that despite being "white" and male, I experienced the exact same pain and anxiety growing up, save that I was only in danger of being shot, a few times.

Because I am male, I too have been told from the day I was born, to "man up" whenever I was unhappy, no matter how wrong the people who were attacking me were. I eventually came to realize that unfortunately, the human race is inherently abusive towards pretty much everyone within it's bounds. Because I am male, I have been expected to accept that no other person will automatically respect my sensibilities about anything at all.

Competition for mates is worse than "dog eat dog," for example. The old adage "all is fair in love and war" is apt, as is that "there is no honor amongst thieves" nor anyone else on this planet. Competition for jobs and income is the same. People who cheat to win are applauded when discovered, rather than chastised, and any male who complains that they were mistreated is told that by complaining, they have declared themselves to be weakling undeserving of even whatever it is that they managed to hold on to despite the cheats.

Finally, I came to the sense that I PERSONALLY do not support the concept of what might be called "retributive morality." That is, that I am adamant that no matter what others do, that I am personally and solely responsible for MY OWN BEHAVIOR. More than that, the fact that I feel horrible because my so-called best friends treated me despicably for all the time I knew them, betrayed me repeatedly; and despite that the society I live in to this day, refuses to stand up for the declared principles that it pretends to admire; that I am NEVER excused from behaving as I believe is right.

What I THINK I am seeing in the above quote, is the opposite of that. Someone appears to want the rest of us to ignore that they are lashing out indiscriminately against everyone else, in order to vent their very real and entirely justified painful emotions, having truly suffered unjustly their whole life. I fully sympathize with their pain, and their urge to express it. But the seeming use of that pain to excuse behavior that causes others pain in turn, is a contradiction that I cannot agree with.

I know that here in the US, many non-"whites" are seen as dangerous just because they are non-"white," and some people treat them very badly because of THEIR fears. But if the response to that is to knowingly behave in ways which encourage those people in fear to think that their paranoia is justified, that's not poignant, it's simply illogical and self-indulgently self-destructive.

At our current state of development, a man can never truly understand what it is to be a mother. IgorFrankensteen, no disrespect but to claim is utter rubbish!

"My response to the quote here, is that despite being "white" and male, I experienced the exact same pain and anxiety growing up, save that I was only in danger of being shot, a few times."

You can claim to have sympathy, even to empathise but your claim is preposterous. When are you ever judged as inferior because of your skin pigmentation?

When have you ever been profiled as "trouble" from over 60 feet above? When have you ever been considered stupid before you've even uttered a word?

When have you been insulted because you clearly have a different ethnic background?

How many times have you been told "you're not welcome" when the persons ahead and behind you are granted access?


Yes, talking about racism can be difficult because that's how the powers that be have programmed the sheep. As I have referred to in threads in the past and will continue to in the future. The American Civil Rights Movement improved things not only for Blacks but Women, the physically disadvantaged. The biggest threat to the power system as it currently operates is if we finally bring this issue of racism to the table and discuss to its rightful conclusion.

As a mother to a son, I empathize with the statement made. It has to be tiring for him to constantly PROVE to others that he is not the dangerous or violent stereotype so many consider his 'ethnicity' to be. It must be tiring to be told you are equal but to be seen and treated so much less until you prove it through being extra docile and subserviant.

I made, and make, no claims at all to having been through as much trouble as every other person who has suffered. I have never claimed to know what it is like to be a race or a gender or an age or a culture other than the one I am. But I have been physically attacked for being white. I have been kept out of various venues for being white. I have been attacked for being male. I have been chased by police with dogs because I had longhair, and was near a place they decided that no one with longhair should be near. So I can and do say, that I know first hand what it is like to be despised on sight, without being allowed to even ask for a second opinion.

If someone want to claim that at a certain point, the quantity of persecution someone has been through, directly causes morality and logic to come to an end, then I can't argue that, because despite what I have experienced, I have remained logical and I have retained my principles.

What I have said here and elsewhere several times, when discussions such as this have come up, is that a large part of the reason for ongoing problems with all this, is because too many people decide that they don't have to live up to their own standards, because of something someone else did.

I have always, and will always, fight and argue against those who want to point to the misbehavior of a PORTION of a given group of people, and try to use that as an excuse to condemn ALL of the people in the group.

It is NOT a solution to persecution to play into the hands of the oppressors, by acting out in a manner that gives them excuses to continue their oppression. That's all the point that I'm trying to make.

I also know well what it is like to be told that MY negative life experiences don't count because I am not non-Caucasian or female, or whatever,so I also understand what it is to be told that even communication from me wont be respected.

This is a practical matter. If you want to be a part of the solution for such things, declaring that you can't be held accountable for your choices and actions because of what you have been through, will destroy your own hopes for progress.

We’re always, constantly been policed for our emotions. And I can’t . . . I refuse to do that, because that little, that being inside me can’t live. . . . What’s the purpose of living if I’m dying to just to stay alive every day?


what I take from the quote

is it worth it to live on your knees, just so you don't die on your feet,,,,

Igor, I wager that all the incidences you refer to happened in places you could quite easily have avoided without it impacting on your life negatively whatsoever. The difference for Blacks is they can suffer such slights as part of their everyday lives, especially for young Black men. Coming home from the store from getting milk or candy. Killed for not holding a door open for a White woman, sitting on one's own porch eating chicken etc, etc, etc.

That more or less is a mantra of mine. I'd rather die standing than life on my knees.

That is a valid point.

it is valid that being told your communication wont be respected sucks,, trust me I know,,,,

I just feel that is quite a different struggle than this man was expressing about living his life in discomfort and with the responsibility of accepting that discomfort so that everyone else doesn't have to,,,,

the old cry from the ignorant was better off red than dead

well it is better to die free than be squashed to death by overburdenious
regulation as how one must live their life

problem is too many expect others too fight for that right and refuse too
help by standing up for their rights even tho it is someone else's that are being oppressed

one of the most idiotic statements is what difference does it make if
you are not doing anything wrong --- what they are doing is not the point
what is the point we the people were given inalienable rights and they
are not to be trampled on...

one of these examples is drug testing ....
violation of illegal search if no warrant is obtained
violation of can not be forced to incriminate yourself
both are rights guaranteed be the constitution

too many said oh if you are not doing them what does it matter

well now you get attacked for saying the wrong thing so free speech is
being taken away by the manners police

you have to make a cake for someone living the lifestyle your religion
does not condone or no religious articles on your desk if you are
a govt worker so much for freedom of religion the part of amendment everyone forgets about the state may pass no law establishing a
religion, NOR PROHIBITING THE FREE EXERCISE THEREOF

the discrimination of one group is ok but dont discriminate on theis group .... oh you have o do this because it discrimination if you dont
(bake a cake for a lifestyle you disagree with) but you can openly
discriminate against others that are not breaking the law either (you
are not allowed to be here because you are legally carrying a firearm)

there is much hypocrisy in this great country and the more it crows
(grows) [it was a typo but it fits] the less great this country
becomes

so when the bathroom bills keep getting defeated (as they should the
way they are worded) that same defeat should allow anyone that is a law bidding citizen to go anywhere (the correction for bathroom bill
is one must use bathroom that is anatomically correct) [get the surgery
to change your anatomy and then use that bathroom but idiots in govt
are to stupid to know how to fix it

"First, they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me."


Martin Niemoller

The same old nonsense Sir. We blacks are the only ones who suffer. Explain to me the Chinese who were also enslaved beaten and shot but do not have the same crime rates, killings and criminal crimes associated with their race. When you can answer that maybe you will understand

Did you not notice that you used the word "were" in your comment. We are actually talking about present day in this thread, try and catch up.

that is actually a myth,amongst the populations in China, there are also historically oppressed groups that have higher rates of poverty and, in correlation, crime

the model minority myth, is that,, just a MYTH

and the idea of someone speaking to their experience being any indication that they are arguing about being the 'only' anything is also a quick reflex response similar to a child's retort of 'everybody else does it'

Again. I have never claimed to have been through the same QUANTITY of such experiences as every other person. But I HAVE been through such experiences, and no it wasn't in places where I inserted myself on purpose and could easily have gone away. The abuse came to me as I was trying to go about my every day life as best I could. Perhaps you are so convinced that such things only happen to Black Americans, you aren't willing to believe me, and I can't help that. But I would urge you if that is true, to make an effort to rethink it, because as long as a person insists that ONLY their group can suffer as they do, they will be perpetuating the idea that they are NOT TO BE CONSIDERED AS INHERENTLY EQUAL in the larger society.

Again. All I am arguing against, is self-destruction, and claiming that your self-destruction is out of your hands because you are this or that race, gender, belief system, whatever.

It is my OPINION that anyone who proclaims that they are incapable of controlling their own behavior, should expect others to step in and take over their guidance. I have witnessed small section of societies trying to follow the idea that emotions alone should be the guiding factor in what happens, and trying to instantly forgive and allow people who acted out of emotional pique alone, to do as they wished without interference. The effort always failed. The social groups always either fell apart, or killed itself off.

The people who commit the greatest number and degree of oppressive acts against others, ALWAYS declare that they can't help but take those actions. I will never support that line of thinking, because it ALWAYS results in abuse.

Here is an excerpt from an op-ed published by the Baltimore Sun in May 2016:



The author of that op-ed is the same person who made the statement quoted in this discussion thread's original post. The author had become the victim of a violent crime. Yet, the cops treated him as if he were the criminal.

Apparently, others were blaming the author for what happened to him.

Save from being chased by the police with dogs for having long hair. During the incidents you speak of, how many times did you think your life was in mortal danger? Being told by a group of women that your opinion is not valued because of your gender isn't likely to get you killed.

If you're being persecuted for having long hair you can have it cut, as you appear to have now sir. The Black man can't decide to become White tomorrow.

It's the QUANTITY/FREQUENCY of these slights against the black man that makes their mere existence seem a never ending battle, A LIVING HELL. One off incidents as you've experienced are WEEK IN, WEEK OUT for MANY young Black men.

You mentioned being turned away from a club of some form because of your colour. How about getting refused to entry many clubs every weekend till the only options left open to you are to frequent clubs popular with pimps and hoes etc or stay at home, even though you yourself are an honest hard working law abiding citizen.

You claim understanding due to a few isolated incidents. Isolated incident don't equate to persecution sir.

I have never at any point claimed that only Black people can suffer a level injustice we do. However, we are most commonly and frequently subjected to them. Then when a Black person snaps and goes on a rampage, many White people will claim "Well that's why they need over policing". Even man's best friend will eventually bite back if it's abused enough. How many White people do you know that would wish to be Black for an easier life? Yet there are millions of Blacks are bleaching their skins every day because they believe it to be beneficial to them and their existence.

So maybe it is you that should "rethink" and stop insinuating that your knowledge or viewpoint is superior to mine. I speak of experiences I've lived and experience daily even in and among these threads I often see comments that are pure racist that aren't picked up by the moderators. When I first stumbled across the forums I was appalled at how frequent this kind of behaviour was allowed to go unchecked. So much so that I would go through threads that had be allowed to accumulate in some cases hundreds of comments and would draw attention to the first racist remark, which often came very early on. Then with just one or two comments of my own was able to have those whole threads deleted.

We've never argued in these forums, indeed I have observed that more often than not your contributions are intelligent and fair. However, read what you've chosen to write in this particular thread. Comments seem to suggest your higher plane of understanding. You are merely speaking from your view from the outside looking in, mine is from the inside looking out. And although your penmanship might be superior, I very much doubt your knowledge in these matters exceeds mine. I'll repeat the assertion I began my contribution to this thread with. A man can never truly understand what it means to be a mother. By that same token, no White person can truly understand what a Black person feels subjected to the everyday oppression impose by this White Supremacist Society.

THEY CANT RUN THEIR OWN LIVES I WILL BE xxxxxx IF THEY WILL RUN MINE


maybe i should put it in a song

ooooopppss was beaten to it


THE ISLEY BROTHERS LYRICS
"Sunshine (Go Away Today)"
(originally by Jonathan Edwards)

Sunshine go away today
I don't feel much like dancing
Some man's gone, he's tried to run my life
He don't know what he's asking

He tells me I'd better get in line
Can't hear what he's saying
When I grow up I'm going to make it mine
But these aren't dues I been paying

How much does it cost?
I'll buy it
The time is all we've lost
I'll try it
He can't even run his own life
He can't even run his own life
I'll be damned if he'll run mine, sunshine

Sunshine go away today
I don't feel much like dancing
Some man's gone, he's tried to run my life
He don't know what he's asking

Working starts to make me wonder where
The fruits of what I do are going
He says in love and war all is fair
But he's got cards he ain't showing

How much does it cost?
I'll buy it
The time is all we've lost
I'll try it
He can't even run his own life
He can't even run his own life
I'll be damned if he'll run mine

Sunshine go away

Sunshine, come on back another day
I promise you I'll be singing
This old world, she's gonna turn around
Brand new bells'll be ringing

http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/isleybrothers/sunshinegoawaytoday.html

JONATHAN EDWARDS
"Sunshine"

Sunshine go away today
I don't feel much like dancin'
Some man's come he's trying to run my life
Don't know what he's askin'
When he tells me I better get in line
Can't hear what he's sayin'
When I grow up, I'm gonna make it mine
These ain't dues I been payin'

How much does it cost
I'll buy it
The time is all we've lost
I'll try it
He can't even run his own life
I'll be damned if he'll run mine, sunshine

Sunshine, go away today
I don't feel much like dancin'
Some man's come he's trying to run my life
Don't know what he's askin'
Working starts to make me wonder where
Fruits of what I do are goin'
When he says in love and war all is fair
He's got cards he ain't showin'

How much does it cost
I'll buy it
The time is all we've lost,I'll try it
He can't even run his own life
I'll be damned if he'll run mine, Sunshine

Sunshine, come on back another day
I promise you I'll be singin'
This old world, she's gonna turn around
Brand new bells will be ringin'

http://www.oldielyrics.com/lyrics/jonathan_edwards/sunshine.html