My advice to you both would be to be careful what you wish for.
Unlike simple sex, taking a girlfriend implies romantic attachment and is a much greater threat to the relationship. Why someone would ask for you to take such a step, I don't know, except that some husbands believe that lesbian relationships aren't the same danger as straight relationships. I think that's naive.

Prepare for drama, if you do this.

He MultipleDichotomies,
Thank you for the treatise. The example was very illustrative.

You may also enjoy the subject of Game Theory, and specifically zero-sum games, a study of which might be helpful to anyone involved in person-to-person negotiations like those which happen in intimate relationships.

This type of "game" is not the same subject in "Games People Play", which is also fantastic reading, but documents dysfunctional interactions between people due to a system of hidden payoffs.

Sorry you lost the first girl you truly loved...
Cheer up, though.

There are SO many more out there you can lose.

Your question was what MAKES a successful relationship.

My question is what IS a successful relationship?

I have had many successful relationships; many of them were quite short. By my definition, they were successful because they had the right elements of fun, companionship, intimacy, sharing, learning, personal growth... and left me, ultimately in a better place than I was before. So what is your definition?

I suppose anyone could answer that; I'd like to know what people think.

From grade school, I learned patience, hard work, and that if I worked within existing power structures, that everything was possible, and justice would triumph.

In high school, I learned computer programming from a neighbor, and that I was superior to almost all of the teaching staff, and that the world was full of idiots but that I would be successful.

I college, I learned I was invincible and in the inevitable triumph of good over evil.

In family life, I learned that my life consisted of working and changing diapers; that truth shall set me free, that blood is thicker than water, love never fails and your children are yours forever.

In time, I learned that all these truths were false.

More recently, I learned that God's will isn't executed with his divine hand, but rather by my own and those like me. I learned that all can be lost, and that unfairness and loss unite us all. I learned empathy for my fellow man and how to fail with grace. I learned not to root my self esteem in the approval of others.

And I learned that tomorrow never comes and that I have only a succession of todays and to make the most of them.

Oh let's see. Some of this goes back some years.

1. College sporting event, Gymnastics (1)
2. Dinner w/ drinks (7)
3. No date required; arranged(10)
4. Hit it off at party/event (3)
5. Text/Email/Phone (4)
6. Sports: Running, shooting (3)
7. Hot tubbing invite (1)
8. Dinner at my place (1)
9. Dinner and Theatre (Play) downtown
10. Bar, pub crawl (4)

It was difficult to put this together. I realized that very rarely do I ever invent a "date" with someone I don't really know. Usually, I go out with someone I've already had some shared experience with, so it doesn't really feel like a first date.

For example, I met my last gf at a running event and that lasted for well over a year. By "running event", I mean there were 156 half-drunk people in red dresses running through Toledo. And when I say, "met", well you get the idea.

Another one lives two hours away. A mutual friend hooked us up and we started a text and phone relationship. When she came down to see me... well it wasn't for a "date".

She had something come up just before her second trip and that left me at a social event with no date. The girl across the table, whom I bumped into now and again with this running group said, "Oh I wouldn't stand you up!" So I invited her to meet me at a bar afterward. And she did.

Another girl posted that she was taking stuffed peppers out of the oven. She asked if I wanted to come over for dinner and eat them in the hot tub. Well, I did.

Sometimes, I just happen to be one of the last ones standing at a party and a girl might need a "cuddle buddy" or maybe something more.

But again... I don't have to design a fancy date.

Mainly, I'm just a nice guy at the right place at the right time.

I've had very healthy relationships from the most bizarre beginnings, some quite debaucherous. If there's a formula out there, I don't know what it is.

lowdrag79 had a point back there. He noticed the new town and maybe a new job. And you have kids...

That's all important stuff. Setting up a home with kids in a new town is a lot of work. You guys are acting as a team... a partnership with benefits, so to speak.

I didn't catch if you also worked outside the home. That might be important, too. In my previous life, my wife and I moved to a new town with two small children.

Each day, I would leave in the morning at 8:45am and then reappear each evening around 5:30pm. My wife was left without adult interaction for most of the day, and when I returned, she would talk, talk, talk, talk about everything in the home, while I set the table, helped with dinner, managed the children and basically relieved my poor wife from the disaster that had occurred that day.

Many days, I would return home, place my hand on the door knob and lean in to listen. It was always bedlam. I turned briefly and looked at my car still warm in the driveway, then at the road drifting off to the distance, but soon, I would take a deep breath, turn the knob and let myself in.

Yes, each day, the cavalry arrived. I disappeared in the morning and arrived triumphantly in the afternoon to restore order. Her shift had ended and mine began. Of course, I was working.

I was never asked how my day was, and home was not a place for romance or fun. It was the place where children were raised. I would have loved to get out, but never did.

It's just what happens, sometimes... Don't know if any of this strikes a chord, or not.

Good luck.

Yeah; I suggest you find your girlfriend a husband as soon as possible.

:-)

Dear LadyBlue,

Some of the reaction you may be getting is because things really are a bit different when you have a child, and if you haven't worked all that through, it's possible that the men already have.

Men know, for example, that there are scheduling issues. Many women have kids full-time and no family nearby. So there's actually no way to date them. Others have every other weekend free for dating. But a man might have his own kids on those weekends. So the schedules don't match!

Many women say, "We come as a package." which sounds like good-mom material, but always going for dates with a toddler in tow is just weird. Other women hide their love interests so their child doesn't see a history of strange men coming in the door. It's not fun to be hidden by your girlfriend.

Some women with children are SO guilty towards them that their children learn they can screw with Mommy's love life. I dated a woman whose 16 year old boy became jealous that she took a trip with me (when he thought HE'D be going). Well our relationship was doomed from that point. He kept being moody and manipulative and she couldn't bring herself to say, "You, my beloved son, are the short-timer, and if you want to move out two years early, there's the door!"

Men may also need to move to another city to find work, or perhaps retire. But oftentimes, women with children can't move because of custody or school issues.

I mean -- it really does get complicated.

It's not that your child is "baggage". But it really is different when you have kids. I have two at home.

T

Wow! Thanks for sharing. I can't say I've ever had a date like that, but then again my dating pool is my set of acquaintances, usually. [People often post questions about where to find dates to which my answer is always, "Well where do you find people?"]

So although I don't have a horrible date story, I do have an awkward date story to share:

This was a first date. Classy, professional woman; a drug dealer. Okay, okay, she was a pharmaceutical rep. She was about my age -- lower 40s. Thin build. A runner. [I love runners. Not only do they take care of themselves, but they seem to have great attitudes, too. But I digress.]

The plan was dinner and a play. Now you have to understand that I live in a small city in the Midwest, and I'm a professional. But if I show up to work in a suit, people will ask me if someone died. So this is not the big city, here. My point is that dinner and a play is a little extravagant for a first date, but for this girl, it was appropriate.

I picked her up at her very nice house. She told me her kids (both in high school) would not be expecting her in before they went to bed; that she would be out very late.

She was appropriately dressed, waited for me to open her door, etc. We had Thai food downtown and then drove a couple of blocks to a parking garage not far from the performing arts center.

We left the play at intermission (a rare, bad show) and started wandering around the downtown Jimmy Buffet festival. It was GREAT. Live band playing; people dancing. You could walk around with your beer, etc. But I didn't buy beer.

No, I had a Gatorade bottle into which I added straight vodka, Gatorade powder and ice. No water. Just the melted ice. This is a magical potion, I tell you.

We were both drinking off the same bottle, doing a little dancing... she started to get a little friendly... kissy-kissy... and I'm thinking "This date is going REALLY WELL."

"Let's take a stroll by the river", I said. I was planning a nice, romantic walk. Then... "Blaaaaaaaahhhhhh!"

She started puking. Then puking some more. Then dry heaving. Then puking. Then she couldn't hardly stand. [She said she lacks that gene that is associated with the processing of alcohol.]

So I had the joy of holding her upright and yes... holding her hair.

It was quite a trick getting her all the way back to the car. She puked once more in the parking garage and then off we go back home.

By the time I got back on the highway, she was slumped over; passed out cold next to me.

It was 10:30 at night, and I was thinking, "Crap! Her kids are still up!"

What do I do?

I know.... I'll carry her to the door, hit the doorbell, and run into my car and drive off!

[To be continued.]

Amen to that.
Being happy by yourself is an important skill to learn, and in my opinion is a prerequisite for a relationship, anyway.
[I know it's off-topic but I couldn't resist.]

Slide a pre-nup under the bathroom door when she's on the toilet. Along with a pen. She'll get the idea. She won't be able to WAIT to tell her family how cool you are!

I like the white cane quip.

Now back to the question...
Need some more information...
She was "on" his bed? Like as one sits on a couch?
Or they were together in bed?

That might be important to getting a proper answer.

Is there something in particular on your mind? Some subject, perhaps, where conversation ventured to the relationship's peril?

Restructure this sentence:
"I would like to enhance my relationship with god than I am doing so presently."

Perhaps you need to add "more" before "than".

Congratulations on knowing how to spell "Smoky". Most people get that wrong, thanks to the bear with the misspelled name.

Your profile seems to be directed to women in your area who wish to escape to Eastern Tennessee. That might be a small group. If you find such a woman looking to escape her life in Toledo for another far away, beware that you may one day suspect that she has used you.

My own life has taught me to value relationships where the woman values me for me, and not for what I can do for her, and that includes working together toward common goals/dreams. People valued for serving a purpose can be replaced by another who serves the purpose better, or when that purpose is no longer required, disposed.

Your own life may teach you something different.

Good luck to you, Sir.

Dear MadamX,
Ditto re: your decision and ditto for all the great advice you received.

I'd like to make two observations: something that perhaps you missed and something that perhaps your listening audience missed.

You expressed extreme aggravation about the criticisms of a man you "met" on this site a week ago. A rude, disturbed man you've kinda-known for a week shouldn't have that kind of sway over your mood. I see a potential codependency issue. Maybe?

I think the listening audience may have missed the part about your husband being a sociopath. Since you're a psych major, I assume you weren't using the term lightly. So here's what it (usually) means:

A person with superficial charm, inflated sense of self, lack of remorse, lack of empathy, incapacity for love, need for stimulation, ability to change, lie, or become a chameleon as required.

To a sociopath, a friend coworker or spouse is no different than a car, garbage bag, or onion: A means to an end. Sometimes, a person can be used for money, but another victim might serve to feed the self-aggrandizement of the sociopath.

Sociopaths cannot love, but are amazingly capable of instilling love in others, as well as feelings of duty, guilt, etc.

To a sociopath, you are not a fellow person, you are a complex object in their amoral world.

They are especially difficult to leave.

Actual people?
heheheheheheheh.

Yes, Krupa... That's probably the best advice I've seen in a long time and particularly on-point in a forum of online bloggers.

As for myself, I get out all the time. It's not that I'm dating all the time; I'm just living my life, doing the things I like to do and that puts me into contact with different people on a regular basis. Many of those people happen to be single women. I have yet to have any worthwhile life experience while typing at this keyboard, or while watching television. The computer monitor gives a crappy tan.

When someone says, "What did you do last weekend?", I can sometimes rightfully say that I ran through downtown Cincinnati wearing a red dress, learned line dances at the local Country bar or had fun at a club in Columbus (without mentioning details).

I can't say that I've ever had a "seedy one-night stand with some skanky drunken bar hags". But then again, it's not exactly on my bucket list, either. hmmm....

Do they have to be hags? I mean... what if they were decent-looking and in their early 20s? Does that still count?

Well, Lex, I have yet to receive my first unsolicited note. So your aftershave is at least working better than my own.

Either that, or "Author" sounds sexier than "Programmer". hmmm...

Be heartened, however, that there really are women out there who made the same decision that you did.

My last girlfriend lasted 14 months. She was never married, never lived with a lover, and never had children. She had herself fixed, worked her way through college, got her master's and and works 60+ hours a week in a mad quest for money and possessions to impress her friends and particularly her father, for reasons not fully understood.

She dines upscale, drinks upscale, parties in limos, and has two places, both on lakes. It was a long-distance relationship (just one state away) and she made it clear from the beginning that she would likely never be able to live with someone again (since school).

She's 40. Great girl. So they're out there. Plus, she had a couple of friends who were similarly inclined. One is a lawyer and the other a chief surgeon.

So take heart, my friend, and keep the faith!

Lex,
You make a good point. (And by the way, I became a fan after your post complaining of women whose profiles say they have 'n' children, invariably followed by "and they are my world". That was the funniest serious thread I have ever had the pleasure to read.)

Oh... the point to which I refer was the "People need people" quote. I'd like to affirm your sentiments in part, and suggest that it is a good mental exercise (and perhaps indicative of good mental health) for a person to be happy with themselves, and in their own thoughts without the need of company or distraction. I'd also like to disagree in part by pointing out that you are not the recluse you describe yourself to be so long as you are blogging this much. 30,000 posts does not a hermit make.

Also, being humans, there is a hard-wired need (for most people) to have social interactions with others. Solitary confinement as a punishment might illustrate this.

We are also hardwired by our genes to pair-bond. We have a biological imperative to mate with someone with good and compatible genes and to raise those offspring until they can themselves pass them to the next generation and so on. And so begins our frustration when people act on this instinct and cease using their brains, it seems.

This may explain why it is that so many profiles make it clear that the young single mother comes as a package deal. She is looking to secure your resources to complete her goal of raising her existing offspring until mating age. As a concession to you, and in furtherance of her own goal as well, she may like the idea of mating with you, also, and your new offspring will cement the relationship for both the new child and the one from a previous mating. As is so often the case in the news, the first child sometimes perishes by "accidental shaking" or similar, causing each reader of the morning paper to shake his or her head and wonder how people could be so dysfunctional.

But really, these are our genes making decisions for us, sometimes.

So, my advice to JazzyDude would be to be comfortable with yourself alone, yet recognize also that some of your feelings might be hardwired. Managing this conflict for yourself is something you have to figure out all by yourself.

Good luck to you, Sir.

Help me understand.
And by the way, I'm a programmer, not an economist.

Keynes says that fiscal policy can be used to keep aggregate demand high?

I understand that keeping the money supply loose is an imperative, and I think I see that happening. But is the massive government spending (in the USA) intended to keep demand high?

Would Keynes be concerned about our ability to get out from under our debt? Or would he say that deficit spending on this scale is okay?

Going back to WWII, I had heard that one of the functions of War Bonds was to soak up money and thus control inflation. Why is that not an issue now? Are we not in similar times? (Yes, I know we're not on a war footing, but there is a lot of gov't spending.)

Sorry for all the questions. It just seemed like a good opportunity for me to get some understanding of the world in which I live.

Thank you in advance for any light you care to shed.

Tim