So true... That is because Paganism is not just one single religion. It's an umbrella term that is used when referring to many different religions.

What is it (Paganism)?
The word "pagan" comes from the Latin word "paganus" which meant "civilian" or "country dweller." "Paganus" is also related to the Latin word "pagus" which means "the country district." Early in the Christian church's history the churches were mainly found in the larger cities, which meant that the majority of city dwellers were Christians. However, the further outside of the city you went you would find less and less Christians. In fact you would find those who still practiced the land's native religion/spiritual practices. City dwelling Christians referred to such people in a derrogatory was as "pagans." The same can be said of the word "heathen" which originally meant "one who lives on the heath." In modern times Paganism refers to any religion that is not of Christian, Judaic, or Islamic origins.

How old is it (Paganism)?
It's as old as humankind... as old as humankind began looking towards something other than themselves as the creators of life. It's definately older than Christianity.

Is it (Paganism) a religion?
It's one specific religion, but rather a specific title which many different religions and spiritual beliefs come under.

What are the beliefs/ practices/ rituals of Paganism?
Because Paganism is merely a title which many different religions and spiritual beliefs fall under, there are far too many different beliefs, practices, and rituals to be described here.


Far too many believe that Wiccans, Witches, and Pagans are all interchangeable terms... they are not. Wicca is a specific neo-pagan religion that embraces the practice of Witchcraft. Witchcraft is not a religion but rather the practice of Magick. Aleister Crowley said, "Magick is the Science and Art of causing Change to occur in conformity with Will." The practice of Witchcraft (Magick) can be practiced along side any religion or without the aid of any religion at all simply because the aid of a Higher Power is not needed. Even an athiest can perform Witchcraft (Magick). So, Wiccans can be Witches, but not all Witches are Wiccans and not all Pagans are either Wiccans or Witches.

I would also like to talk a bit about The Wiccan Rede...

Main Entry: 1rede
Pronunciation: 'rEd
Function: transitive verb
Etymology: Middle English -- more at READ
1 archaic : to give counsel to : ADVISE
2 archaic : INTERPRET, EXPLAIN

Main Entry: 2rede
Function: noun
1 archaic : COUNSEL, ADVICE
2 archaic : ACCOUNT, STORY


The Wiccan Rede
Full Version

Bide within the Law you must, in perfect Love and perfect Trust.
Live you must and let to live, fairly take and fairly give.

For tread the Circle thrice about to keep unwelcome spirits out.
To bind the spell well every time, let the spell be said in rhyme.

Light of eye and soft of touch, speak you little, listen much.
Honor the Old Ones in deed and name,
let love and light be our guides again.

Deosil go by the waxing moon, chanting out the joyful tune.
Widdershins go when the moon doth wane,
and the werewolf howls by the dread wolfsbane.

When the Lady's moon is new, kiss the hand to Her times two.
When the moon rides at Her peak then your heart's desire seek.

Heed the North winds mighty gale, lock the door and trim the sail.
When the Wind blows from the East, expect the new and set the feast.

When the wind comes from the South, love will kiss you on the mouth.
When the wind whispers from the West, all hearts will find peace and rest.

Nine woods in the Cauldron go, burn them fast and burn them slow.
Birch in the fire goes to represent what the Lady knows.

Oak in the forest towers with might, in the fire it brings the God's
insight. Rowan is a tree of power causing life and magick to flower.

Willows at the waterside stand ready to help us to the Summerland.
Hawthorn is burned to purify and to draw faerie to your eye.

Hazel-the tree of wisdom and learning adds its strength to the bright fire burning.
White are the flowers of Apple tree that brings us fruits of fertility.

Grapes grow upon the vine giving us both joy and wine.
Fir does mark the evergreen to represent immortality seen.

Elder is the Lady's tree burn it not or cursed you'll be.
Four times the Major Sabbats mark in the light and in the dark.

As the old year starts to wane the new begins, it's now Samhain.
When the time for Imbolc shows watch for flowers through the snows.

When the wheel begins to turn soon the Beltane fires will burn.
As the wheel turns to Lamas night power is brought to magick rite.

Four times the Minor Sabbats fall use the Sun to mark them all.
When the wheel has turned to Yule light the log the Horned One rules.

In the spring, when night equals day time for Ostara to come our way.
When the Sun has reached it's height time for Oak and Holly to fight.

Harvesting comes to one and all when the Autumn Equinox does fall.
Heed the flower, bush, and tree by the Lady blessed you'll be.

Where the rippling waters go cast a stone, the truth you'll know.
When you have and hold a need, harken not to others greed.

With a fool no season spend or be counted as his friend.
Merry Meet and Merry Part bright the cheeks and warm the heart.

Mind the Three-fold Laws you should three times bad and three times good.
When misfortune is enow wear the star upon your brow.

Be true in love this you must do unless your love is false to you.

These Eight words the Rede fulfill:
"An Ye Harm None, Do What Ye Will"

Written by Adriana Porter and was published by Lady Gwen Thompson (Adriana Porter's Granddaughter) in The Green Egg magazine in 1975


The Wiccan Rede
Short Version, Most Commonly Used
These Eight words the Rede fulfill:
"An Ye Harm None, Do What Ye Will"


This short phrase has a long and rich history. Gerald Gardner who started the first official Tradition of Wicca called Gardnerian Wicca. Prior to Gerald Gardner's third book The Meaning of Witchcraft, published in 1959, Gardner did not discuss ethics. In "The Meaning of Witchcraft" Gardner says, "(Witches) are inclined to the morality of the legendary Good King Pausol, 'Do what you like so long as you harm no one' But they believe a certain law to be important, "You must not use magic for anything which will cause harm to anyone, and if, to prevent a greater wrong being done, you must discommode someone, you must do it only in a way which will abate the harm."

The Good King Pausol was a character in the book called "The Adventures of King Pausole" published in 1901 by Pierre Louÿs. More specifically the line that Gardner was referring to out of the book, "The Adventures of King Pausole" was, "Do no wrong to thy neighbor. Observing this, do as thou pleasest." Some believe that Gardner was influenced by the older Law of Thelema created by Aleister Crowley, however, this has been up for debate for a long time now.

Now enter in Doreen Valiente. The short form wiccan rede was first publically mentioned in a speech by Doreen Valiente on October 3, 1964 at what may have been the first witches' dinner organized in modern history. The event was sponsored by Pentagram, a quarterly newsletter and "witchcraft review" started and published by Gerard Noel in 1964. Doreene Valiente's Wiccan Rede quote was also published in volume one (1964) of the Pentagram, the UK newsletter that hosted the event and as will be discussed later was subsequently published beween circa 1965 and 1966 in the United States in The Waxing Moon newsletter. In 1965 the Rede was again quoted without references in Justine Glass' book Witchcraft, The Sixth Sense.

Some believe that Gardner wrote the eight word Wiccan Rede. Others believe that Doreene Valiente, who edited a lot of Gardner's work, wrote it using his work. To me, personally, it doesn't matter who wrote it. To some it's really important and makes for some heated debates.

As I mentioned above the word Rede means counsel or advice. Simply put you can lead a horse to water but you can make the horse drink the water. Just because counsel or advice is given doesn't mean it's going to be taken and used. Notice that in the quote above from Gardner's book "The Meaning of Witchcraft" he says they (witches) are INCLINED to the morality, he doesn't say that they are BOUND.

Gerald Gardner had 161 Laws called the Old Laws or The Ardane for all those who were Gardnerian Wiccans. Since that one tradition of Wicca was started many others have followed, some taking with them some of the laws others leaving the laws behind others taking the laws and adding to them, etc. Today, most Wiccans do not follow all 161 of these Laws. Wicca has evolved. Much like Christianity has evolved. Christianity certainly is not the same today as it was when it first began. The Wiccan Rede is not a Law and was never a Law. It is however, wise advice and good counsel for when you practice magick.

By the way, all I can find about the Norse Rede is that it appears in the book called The Rites of Odin by Ed Fitch. Did Ed Fitch write the Norse Rede? Or did he in his studies of the Norse religion, simply paraphrased what he had learned into what he calls "The Norse Rede of Honor?" I look forward to your response, karmafury.

And you are back for more... after saying you were done how many times... with the beginnings of another attack to boot. Tsk, Tsk, Tsk... I thought I wasn't even a blip? Maybe you have OCD and always have to have the last word?

What is the origins of the Norse Rede? Who wrote it and when exactly was it written?

Yes I was in the thread prior to that... a moderator has deleted that particular post of mine due to it being considered a "personal attack." Yet, all of her attacks on me remain intact... why? Because I don't run and tattle on every person who throws sh!t in my face... I just throw it right back. And this argument between Lily and I started in another thread... the Imbolc thread. It just spilled out over into here.

By the way, my name is NOT Valorie or Val. My real name is Audrey. My screen name and magickal name is Lady Valkyrie... you know like the Norse Valkyries.

Oh if you only knew. I do NOT cower in real life. If anything I'm am EXACTLY the same online and offline. I detest people who act one way online but act another offline. But of course in your own little mind, that is stuck back in high school, you'll desperately want to believe that I would cower. If you only knew. And if I wasn't even a "blip" on your radar then you wouldn't even bother to respond to me at all, now would you? Now who is protesting too much?

So why don't you quote the Nore Rede of Honor when trying to give advice to me and Lily? Why quote something that you yourself don't even believe in or follow. Could it be that you are conditioned to automatically quote the Wiccan Rede anytime Pagans and Witches argue amongst themselves or they do something that you believe to be unbecoming of a Pagan or a Witch? I'm not saying that that is indeed how you are... just food for thought.

In my last post to you I never said one insulting word to you. I was just giving you fair warning is all.
Next time you think about passively agressively attacking some stranger online think of me... you never know what crazy b!tch is lurking behind the screen. LMAO!

In my opinion based on my experiences in life, the Wiccan Rede are not words one should live by day in and day out as though it's Holy Law as though written by the very finger of the great divine in the sky. It's just not something that holds up in every circumstance that life throws your way. Realistically speaking no one ever goes through life without harming someone, whether it's intentional or not. As I said, the word Rede is advice... not Holy Law. Use wisdom to know when to use such advice and when to not be a doormat for others and when to obtain justice through Magick when all otherattempts fail.

I'm not a Wiccan so do NOT throw the Wiccan Rede in my face ever again! To me it seems that the Wiccan Rede has become dogmatic within the Wiccan community. The very defnition of the word Rede is simply advice or counsel. The Wiccan Rede is simply advice and NOT Holy Law.

I take a certain approach to people... it's a mixture of how Anton LaVey and Jesus The Christ taught about hating/loving ones enemies and smashing the cheek of one who smites yours/turning the other cheek... however, Using either philosophy all of the time no matter the circumstance is not beneficial at all and certainly not realistic. the key is to have the wisdom to know which philosophy to use during which circumstances life throws your way.

Tsk Tsk Tsk... Now Lily remember what the moderator said? No attacking... that includes you telling me to crawl back under a rock, dear. See, now I'm going to have to be like certain tattle tales and go and run to the mods and report to them that you attacked me so now you can also be repremanded.

Nudity are the first three videos so be forwarned.

Long Hard Road Out Of Hell by Marilyn Manson http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vooAYQWvLc

(s)AINT by Marilyn Manson (banned version) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXBGl0vzoZA

Heart Shaped Glasses by Marilyn Manson (uncensored version... the f*cking hot version)... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsKF0BuxbKo

A softer side of Marilyn Manson... he's human afterall... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBa7M9DXUNQ

"Love Me Or Hate Me" a song orginally done by Lady Sovereign but I tweaked it a little for my own purposes here

Love me or hate me, its still an obsession.
Love me or hate me, that is the question.
If you love me then Thank you!
If you hate me then f*ck you!
Love me or hate me, its still an obsession.
Love me or hate me, that is the question.
If you love me then Thank you!
If you hate me then f*ck you!

I'm fat, I need a diet.
No, in fact i'm just f*ckin right
And I ain't got the biggest breast-s-s, but I write all the best disses.
I got hairy armpits, but I don't walk around like this.
I wear a big baggy t-shirt that hides that nasty sh*t.
Ugh!
Never had my nails done.
Bite them down until they're numb.
I'm the one with the enormous bum,
Now I dont really give a....Ugh!
I'm late for my shepherd's pie
Like a high maintenance chick missin' her diamonds.
Now bow down to your royal highness.

Love me or hate me, its still an obsession.
Love me or hate me, that is the question.
If you love me then Thank you!
If you hate me then f*ck you!
Love me or hate me, its still an obsession.
Love me or hate me, that is the question.
If you love me then Thank you!
If you hate me then f*ck you!

I'm that funky little monkey with the tiniest ears.
I don't like drinkin fancy champy,
I'll stick wit Sam Adams beers.
Whoops, might burp in ya face,
A little unlady-like,
What can I say?
Well oh gosh i'm not posh, a b*tch wit strapon cocks.
I do what i'm doin YEAH!
So everybody's entitled to opinions,
I open my mouth and hell I get sh*t on.

Love me or hate me, its still an obsession.
Love me or hate me, that is the question.
If you love me then Thank you!
If you hate me then f*ck you!
Love me or hate me, its still an obsession.
Love me or hate me, that is the question.
If you love me then Thank you!
If you hate me then f*ck you!

So I cant dance and I really cant sing.
I can only do one thing,
And that's be Lady Valkyrie!
So I cant dance and I really cant sing.
I can only do one thing,
And that's be Lady Valkyrie!

Love me or hate me, its still an obsession.
Love me or hate me, that is the question.
If you love me then Thank you!
If you hate me then f*ck you!
Love me or hate me, its still an obsession.
Love me or hate me, that is the question.
If you love me then Thank you!
If you hate me then f*ck you!

I can only do one thing,
And that's be Lady Valkyrie!

Great suggestion Anoais! How about it Lily?

Oh by the way, I lived in Holmes County Ohio (Amish capital of the world) for years. Now I live in Lebanon County, PA very close to the Lancaster County Amish. The Amish and Mennonite ways can not be comparedc to that of Scientology on any level. Amish and Mennonites do indeed have clergymen in a very traditional sense that most think of clergymen. In fact have you ever heard of Pennsylvania Dutch Pow-Wow? It's basically German folk magick that the Amish still practice to this very day, especially in the older order of Amish. That's definately a far cry from how Scientology does things as far as I know. If I'm missing your comparison between Scientology and the Mennonite and Amish please explain it to me further, because personally I don't see the conection.

BLESSED IMBOLC YA"LL!

oops sorry wrong thread...

I haven't seen you post anything in a while... or maybe I'm just not going to the same thread you frequent. Do you have anything constructive to add to this thread besides pointing out what's wrong with it?

Obvious it's about fluffy bunnies sucking Big Jim