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| Topic: penal colonies instead of prisons | |
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I can understand your frustration with the penal system. I believe differently, however. The system is set up to fail, and miserably. The people who ultimately end up with a life sentence have more than likely been in and out of the system, and their behaviors escalated over time. This is not always the case, I understand. I think if we would apply more resources to rehabilitation, rather than incarceration, we would see a drastic drop in the rate of recidivism. I'm not a bleeding heart; I'm looking at this from a fiscal, as well as humanitarian, viewpoint. In Kansas, for example, it costs the state (us) around $30,000 for one year of incarceration. The national recidivism rate is roughly 70%. If we would apply a fraction of that $30,000 to teach people life skills, social skills, marketable skills, etc. post-incarceration, we wouldn't see such a merry-go-round in the prison system. I also understand that some ex-prisoners would not choose to take advantage of such a system, but for those who did, we would see an impact, I believe. It's not just about the felon; it's about his/her family, kids, etc. Thats why I say make sure the judge is willing to NOT sentence a person to life in prison no parole, unless he (or she) has to do so. What I am suggesting would ONLY be for those who are facing life imprisonment with no parole. |
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I agree with the sherriff in Phoenix that has a prison camp. He makes them sleep in tents, wear pink and eat bologne sandwhiches. And his reason for it is... "if sleeping in hot tents in the desert is good enough for our troops, it's good enough for our prisoners" Go Sheriff Joe. The pink includes the color of their underwear. He does allow them to listen to the radio. But there is only one station they can listen to...his. He is known as the "Toughest Sheriff in America". Treats all prisoners the same. exactly. I remember someone claiming discrimination against him once, and the judge laughing so hard he had to call for a recess. |
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actually your idea isnt bad, but I think the oregon penal system has a good plan too. they take prisoners who have earned it and let them work in a textile mill.......the wages that would normally be paid to them is put into an account. they then use this money to pay for their own prison time, and they usually have 2-3000 saved up by the time they're released. which allows them to re-enter society. they are selling the clothes over seas and helping our economy as well. its called prison blues....check it out I like this. It follows the assumption that ex-prisoners CAN be successful and productive if given the tools to do so. Exactly. What I would like to see, is a lot of these ideas done country wide fro all inmates who are not in for life. Give them the chacne to succeed in life and become model citizens. |
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actually your idea isnt bad, but I think the oregon penal system has a good plan too. they take prisoners who have earned it and let them work in a textile mill.......the wages that would normally be paid to them is put into an account. they then use this money to pay for their own prison time, and they usually have 2-3000 saved up by the time they're released. which allows them to re-enter society. they are selling the clothes over seas and helping our economy as well. its called prison blues....check it out Oh I have seen that system several different places and I like it as well, but again not for the life-termers  I also wish they would make it legal for a judge to offer military instead of jail for certain offenses again (like habitual shoplifting etc)
wouldnt all factories need supervisors. or people that were skilled to train in the newbies?? instead of labels reading .....made in china, they would read made in the USA....... imagine what that would do for the economy, your teaching life skills,and you've reduced the costs of housing prisoners by 80% in my mind, the only person who should be in for life is the one who is too dangerous to allow this sort of action for. by all means, yes I agree to give the chance to all who can use it without posing a danger to society. But if you are in for life as it is, then you are not going to be allowed out to work in a factory or whatever. And also if the lifer is on an island away from society, they have to grow their own food, make there own shelter. no assistance form anyone else (except maybe other lifers). |
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For those that don't already know my opinion on the matter, here it is. I believe that anyone who is sentenced to life in prison without parole (not going to go in to who should or should not be sentenced thus), should be shipped to an island in the middle of the ocean, or a chain of islands. They should be left on those islands with absolutely no contact with humanity for the rest of their lives. Let them grow their own food; let them create their own shelters. Let them kill each other off if thats what they want to do. There would be no physical contact from that island, ever. The navy or coast guard would move in so close, and drop the prisoners overboard (close enough they would not drown due to inability to swim), and the navy or coast guard would include patrole of the waters around that chain of islands in their normal watch, shooting down any craft in the water, that does not identify itself in some manner, thus ensuring hte least likelihood of escape from that island. This owuld have several benefits. It would free up our prisons, reduce the strain on the public paying for the prisons, and seeing as the navy/coastguard already patrol those waters in their normal duties, it would not increase cost on their side by anything large enough to be noticed. Yes, although anything is POSSIBLE, it is highly unlikely that a prisoner would survive trying to escape the island, and thus we would no longer have to worry about repeat offenders getting into society again. there is one of those within 50 mile of me it is the grafton prison farm (probably called something else due to the political correctness bs now but it is still there drove past it within the last month or so Not the same thing if you can drive by it adj. I am talking complete and total seperation form society. Absolutely no possibility of contact. They tried it with alcatraz island, but the island was too close to the mainland and prisoners were able to swim for shore, even if only a few made it. and whose land do you supose is taken to do this control is still needed or they will no longer be there i guess we could evacuate gaum and send them all there just a thought (a dumb one) but again whose land you going to take |
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For those that don't already know my opinion on the matter, here it is. I believe that anyone who is sentenced to life in prison without parole (not going to go in to who should or should not be sentenced thus), should be shipped to an island in the middle of the ocean, or a chain of islands. They should be left on those islands with absolutely no contact with humanity for the rest of their lives. Let them grow their own food; let them create their own shelters. Let them kill each other off if thats what they want to do. There would be no physical contact from that island, ever. The navy or coast guard would move in so close, and drop the prisoners overboard (close enough they would not drown due to inability to swim), and the navy or coast guard would include patrole of the waters around that chain of islands in their normal watch, shooting down any craft in the water, that does not identify itself in some manner, thus ensuring hte least likelihood of escape from that island. This owuld have several benefits. It would free up our prisons, reduce the strain on the public paying for the prisons, and seeing as the navy/coastguard already patrol those waters in their normal duties, it would not increase cost on their side by anything large enough to be noticed. Yes, although anything is POSSIBLE, it is highly unlikely that a prisoner would survive trying to escape the island, and thus we would no longer have to worry about repeat offenders getting into society again. there is one of those within 50 mile of me it is the grafton prison farm (probably called something else due to the political correctness bs now but it is still there drove past it within the last month or so Not the same thing if you can drive by it adj. I am talking complete and total seperation form society. Absolutely no possibility of contact. They tried it with alcatraz island, but the island was too close to the mainland and prisoners were able to swim for shore, even if only a few made it. and whose land do you supose is taken to do this control is still needed or they will no longer be there i guess we could evacuate gaum and send them all there just a thought (a dumb one) but again whose land you going to take Not a dumb thought, and it would be something that had to be looked at closely not to TAKE the land, but to secure it (ownershipe wise) yes. |
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i like the prison farm idea smaller and controlled environment
it would only take 1 not wanting to give up there land and it is a big land grab all over again and in 100 years those on dating sites will be talking about how land was stolen to give it to convicted felons just a thought but hey what do i know |
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drugs from abroad or S. America would never make it to this country ..if we follow your restricted air space/radar scenarios....
i'll pick them up in my helicopter when the coast guard isn't looking.... no you wouldnt. Your helicopter would show on military radar, and you would be shot down for being in restricted airsapce. if you can't swim...they'll throw you in, anyway. [/qoute] Thats why I say have the ship go in close enough that you WONT drown. and trust me, a rubber raft could be used, with it being protected by gunman (same scenario basically as an attempted prison break)
let them kill each other if they want.....cruel and unusual punishment nothing cruel about it. They are being exhiled from society. What they do after they leave is up to them.
would not add any cost.....??? of course it would ...transport costs alone would be thousands per person....
coordinate the transport with when a ship is going out there to begin with. And even if we had to set up something specifically for this, a few thousand dollars to transport them ONCE, would be significantly less than paying for them to stay in prison for the rest of theirs lives. air drop supplies, guns, boats, anti aircraft missiles..etc again, same as using your helicopter, you would be shot out of the air long before reaching the island. And where would you, a common citizen come up with guns and boats (let alone military weapons) to let them overcome a naval ship, or a coast guard ship?
didn't work in the dry tortugas during civil war...would not work now....no control
I don't know anything about the tortugas, will look them up shortly. however, I have to say, knowing that there is a military armed ship of some kind ready to shoot me down, would be enough of control for my mind. I appreciate your coming back in and clarifying your reasonings, however as you can see, they don't hold much water at this point. dumbest thing i have ever heard hey instead of coming in and sounding so negative, how about explaining WHY you feel it is a dumb idea? I mean I took the time to show some of the good aspects of it, you could at least try and point out some of hte bad. |
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you seem to live in a world of ideals not realities....
i'll pick them up in my helicopter when the coast guard isn't looking.... no you wouldnt. Your helicopter would show on military radar, and you would be shot down for being in restricted airsapce. if you can't swim...they'll throw you in, anyway. [/qoute] Thats why I say have the ship go in close enough that you WONT drown. and trust me, a rubber raft could be used, with it being protected by gunman (same scenario basically as an attempted prison break)
let them kill each other if they want.....cruel and unusual punishment nothing cruel about it. They are being exhiled from society. What they do after they leave is up to them.
would not add any cost.....??? of course it would ...transport costs alone would be thousands per person....
coordinate the transport with when a ship is going out there to begin with. And even if we had to set up something specifically for this, a few thousand dollars to transport them ONCE, would be significantly less than paying for them to stay in prison for the rest of theirs lives. air drop supplies, guns, boats, anti aircraft missiles..etc again, same as using your helicopter, you would be shot out of the air long before reaching the island. And where would you, a common citizen come up with guns and boats (let alone military weapons) to let them overcome a naval ship, or a coast guard ship?
didn't work in the dry tortugas during civil war...would not work now....no control
I don't know anything about the tortugas, will look them up shortly. however, I have to say, knowing that there is a military armed ship of some kind ready to shoot me down, would be enough of control for my mind. I appreciate your coming back in and clarifying your reasonings, however as you can see, they don't hold much water at this point. dumbest thing i have ever heard hey instead of coming in and sounding so negative, how about explaining WHY you feel it is a dumb idea? I mean I took the time to show some of the good aspects of it, you could at least try and point out some of hte bad. |
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you seem to live in a world of ideals not realities....
i'll pick them up in my helicopter when the coast guard isn't looking.... no you wouldnt. Your helicopter would show on military radar, and you would be shot down for being in restricted airsapce. if you can't swim...they'll throw you in, anyway. [/qoute] Thats why I say have the ship go in close enough that you WONT drown. and trust me, a rubber raft could be used, with it being protected by gunman (same scenario basically as an attempted prison break)
let them kill each other if they want.....cruel and unusual punishment nothing cruel about it. They are being exhiled from society. What they do after they leave is up to them.
would not add any cost.....??? of course it would ...transport costs alone would be thousands per person....
coordinate the transport with when a ship is going out there to begin with. And even if we had to set up something specifically for this, a few thousand dollars to transport them ONCE, would be significantly less than paying for them to stay in prison for the rest of theirs lives. air drop supplies, guns, boats, anti aircraft missiles..etc again, same as using your helicopter, you would be shot out of the air long before reaching the island. And where would you, a common citizen come up with guns and boats (let alone military weapons) to let them overcome a naval ship, or a coast guard ship?
didn't work in the dry tortugas during civil war...would not work now....no control
I don't know anything about the tortugas, will look them up shortly. however, I have to say, knowing that there is a military armed ship of some kind ready to shoot me down, would be enough of control for my mind. I appreciate your coming back in and clarifying your reasonings, however as you can see, they don't hold much water at this point. dumbest thing i have ever heard hey instead of coming in and sounding so negative, how about explaining WHY you feel it is a dumb idea? I mean I took the time to show some of the good aspects of it, you could at least try and point out some of hte bad. |
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Edited by
Lily0923
on
Mon 06/16/08 03:14 PM
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And then what are we doing with all of the prison guards we currently have? Are we putting only newly convicted felons there? Or are we going back and taking them out of the prison system now? Are we re-trying the ones we take from the prisons now? Are people up on felonies going to have better lawyers than the "public pretenders"? Is it something where when indited they automatically go to "special court" for this, or can any and all judges use this?
Daniel your questions have so many loose ends.... |
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you seem to live in a world of ideals not realities.... AMEN... 
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For those that don't already know my opinion on the matter, here it is. I believe that anyone who is sentenced to life in prison without parole (not going to go in to who should or should not be sentenced thus), should be shipped to an island in the middle of the ocean, or a chain of islands. They should be left on those islands with absolutely no contact with humanity for the rest of their lives. Let them grow their own food; let them create their own shelters. Let them kill each other off if thats what they want to do. There would be no physical contact from that island, ever. The navy or coast guard would move in so close, and drop the prisoners overboard (close enough they would not drown due to inability to swim), and the navy or coast guard would include patrole of the waters around that chain of islands in their normal watch, shooting down any craft in the water, that does not identify itself in some manner, thus ensuring hte least likelihood of escape from that island. This owuld have several benefits. It would free up our prisons, reduce the strain on the public paying for the prisons, and seeing as the navy/coastguard already patrol those waters in their normal duties, it would not increase cost on their side by anything large enough to be noticed. Yes, although anything is POSSIBLE, it is highly unlikely that a prisoner would survive trying to escape the island, and thus we would no longer have to worry about repeat offenders getting into society again. Wot??? Sort of like Australia???? There's a bugger of a challenge though.... we tend to thrive on our own merrily... 
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For those that don't already know my opinion on the matter, here it is. I believe that anyone who is sentenced to life in prison without parole (not going to go in to who should or should not be sentenced thus), should be shipped to an island in the middle of the ocean, or a chain of islands. They should be left on those islands with absolutely no contact with humanity for the rest of their lives. Let them grow their own food; let them create their own shelters. Let them kill each other off if thats what they want to do. There would be no physical contact from that island, ever. The navy or coast guard would move in so close, and drop the prisoners overboard (close enough they would not drown due to inability to swim), and the navy or coast guard would include patrole of the waters around that chain of islands in their normal watch, shooting down any craft in the water, that does not identify itself in some manner, thus ensuring hte least likelihood of escape from that island. This owuld have several benefits. It would free up our prisons, reduce the strain on the public paying for the prisons, and seeing as the navy/coastguard already patrol those waters in their normal duties, it would not increase cost on their side by anything large enough to be noticed. Yes, although anything is POSSIBLE, it is highly unlikely that a prisoner would survive trying to escape the island, and thus we would no longer have to worry about repeat offenders getting into society again. Wot??? Sort of like Australia???? There's a bugger of a challenge though.... we tend to thrive on our own merrily...
No, 
With a Permant Naval Blockade.. More like Cuba!!
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Hi Glen.
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Edited by
Fanta46
on
Mon 06/16/08 10:00 PM
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Hi Jess
If you could cross a 1960's Cuba with a 1770 Australia, I think you'd have it. Maybe a little 1970's "Escape from NY," with Kurt Russell thrown in on the side.
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yea Briton solved thier prison problem back then...
Why is it the US has the largest prison population in the world and we say we are so civilized? Seems like a oxymoron to me
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And then what are we doing with all of the prison guards we currently have? Are we putting only newly convicted felons there? Or are we going back and taking them out of the prison system now? Are we re-trying the ones we take from the prisons now? Are people up on felonies going to have better lawyers than the "public pretenders"? Is it something where when indited they automatically go to "special court" for this, or can any and all judges use this? Daniel your questions have so many loose ends.... I am not saying the idea is perfect as it is. It definitely needs to be "tweaked and peaked" so to speak. Arguments could be made as to sending all current lifers straight to an island, but arguments could also be made towards keeping them where they are and simply sending all new lifers to the island. Me personally, I would say start with the new lifers, making sure the judges who sentenced for life were ones who would not sentence thus, unless there was absolutely no question as to a persons guilt first. We simply have way too many innocent people who were int he wrong place at the wrong time, so to speak, in prison for life right now. e could restructure the current prisons, over time to incorporate the non-lifers, and give them a place to work while still remaining confined for the duration of their sentence; as one example. We would still need the guards and such, their roles would just shift a bit towards secure prisons, instead of maximum security, so to speak. |
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you seem to live in a world of ideals not realities.... AMEN...
So let's turn these ideals into realities. |
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And then what are we doing with all of the prison guards we currently have? Are we putting only newly convicted felons there? Or are we going back and taking them out of the prison system now? Are we re-trying the ones we take from the prisons now? Are people up on felonies going to have better lawyers than the "public pretenders"? Is it something where when indited they automatically go to "special court" for this, or can any and all judges use this? Daniel your questions have so many loose ends.... I am not saying the idea is perfect as it is. It definitely needs to be "tweaked and peaked" so to speak. Arguments could be made as to sending all current lifers straight to an island, but arguments could also be made towards keeping them where they are and simply sending all new lifers to the island. Me personally, I would say start with the new lifers, making sure the judges who sentenced for life were ones who would not sentence thus, unless there was absolutely no question as to a persons guilt first. We simply have way too many innocent people who were int he wrong place at the wrong time, so to speak, in prison for life right now. e could restructure the current prisons, over time to incorporate the non-lifers, and give them a place to work while still remaining confined for the duration of their sentence; as one example. We would still need the guards and such, their roles would just shift a bit towards secure prisons, instead of maximum security, so to speak. The guilt is decided by the jury, not the judge, the judge only hands down the sentence... |
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