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| Topic: Why we should ditch religion | |
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Well it's your choice my friend. And if you're just gonna totally refuse and deny it, there's nothing more i can do. What you do today, you'll have to sleep with tonight, i hope you have a great life my friend. Hope all your family and friends grow prosperous in life. Much love out to you and yours. Thanks for the well-wishes. Most of my family and friends are already dead, so they're already in the realm of the after life. Either that or they just ceased to exist. There is a problem with your claims about Christianity though. The story that you try to make it out to be doesn't make sense in terms of Adam and Eve falling from grace. If it was God's plan to simply raise souls and have them earn their way to heaven there would be no need for a story of a fall from grace, and a need for repentance. So I seriously doubt that very many recognized Christian denominations would agree with your views. By the way, what denomination are you preaching? Or is this your own personal brand of "Christianity"? I could make up my own brand of "Christianity" too, but I doubt that any recognized clergy would accept it. Of course, it's my firm conclusion that Jesus neither claimed to be, nor could have been, the only begotten son of Yahweh. So it would be silly for me to even call my 'version' of the story "Christianity" since I renounce the very idea that Jesus was "The Christ". So what official denomination of Christianity are you preaching? Or are you a lone protesting Protestant? |
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God is righteous in every way. God is always there to help when it is needed, God gives us everything we need. Our father is going to give us total paradise to abode in. Well if you like your odds of being one of the few to live in paradise, then you might find an interstate lottery to your liking. It has better odds, and the effects of winning are much more immediate. No God doesn't "baby" us, we have to work for these great things. Wouldn't make much sence for God to just freely give it away without earning it, would be to easy. If God was going to do that, he would have just made us in heaven already, nothing earned, nothing lost. But that's not the way it works, heaven is EARNED. Obviously he can't just 'give' it to everyone, what kind of paradise would Earth be with people milling aroung standing toe to toe.? But then he must already have known that, and so he divised this little competition without any consideration of fair play. No, it's more like a vile Roman competition in which some players are favored over others but in the end any player can fall from disfavor without any real due cause. I think I'll stick with Power Ball, the odds are more in my favor. |
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Well first off, God isn't hiding. God is EVERYWHERE if you seek you shall find. God doesn't force us to guess anything. God is right there our father is EVERYWHERE, always there to answere any questions we may have. He's not playing any game in anyway, and there is no game it's all pretty cut and dry and totally seriouse. God does care if we believe, that is why he has done many things to show this. God has even sent his only begotten son to be crucified for us all. What more can you ask for? ====================================== Like I say, the way your God is now with his dishonest hide-and-seek game playing, I wouldn't even want any part of his insincere heaven. ====================================== Again, God isn't dishonest in any way, nor plays hide-and-seek. If people open their eyes, they shall see our father in everything he does. ========================================= The God you describe is NOT a righteous God by my personal understanding of what it means to be "righteous". ========================================= God is righteous in every way. God is always there to help when it is needed, God gives us everything we need. Our father is going to give us total paradise to abode in. No God doesn't "baby" us, we have to work for these great things. Wouldn't make much sence for God to just freely give it away without earning it, would be to easy. If God was going to do that, he would have just made us in heaven already, nothing earned, nothing lost. But that's not the way it works, heaven is EARNED. Has anyone heard from God lately about what's in the food we eat? I realize the Old Laws are no longer in place but you would think given all the toxin and carcinogens in our current food sources that god would tell SOMEBODY that we need to be more organic and stop with all the chemicals. Also, you'd think that god would look at America and say "stop it" - here - here's the new law about what is right and proper to consume and how it must be prepared for proper consumption. But no, apparently most poeple are too busy trying to determine if what they think they should do is their idea or god's because he doesn't seem to be coming through too clearly.  really think about it where was he then or during the inquisition? or the sacrifice of christian lives for the enjoyment of roman spectators...meh to many why's and not enough answers
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We aren't "punished" for not believing in our father or listening. Heaven is a gift offered, nothing more, nothing less. We either work towards earning this gift of heaven and eternal life, or we cease to exist. No punishment or anything. If what you say here is true then why should anyone care? Like I say, I'm not so sure I would even want this supposed "gift". Let's here the details of exactly what's being offered. Why should I work toward something I'm not even sure I'd want. Where's the description of this "prize"? You seem to think that heaven is going to be all fun and games. You've posted before that you expect that you will be able to do whatever you want whenever you want and you sound like you're expecting to have total freedom in heaven. But that's not the picture the Bible paints. The Bible talks about serving the will of God, not just going off doing whatever makes you happy. You may not like what God has in mind for you. This is why I would much rather perish. If Earth is an example of God's work, and the Bible is an example of his ability to communicate, then I'm not convinced in the least that I would want to serve his will for eternity. I would fear that I wouldn't even be able to understand what he wants most of the time. His book is extremely confusing and ambiguous. I also don't care for the way he behaves. Why would I want to serve him? So the prize of perishing sounds like the better deal to me! The sooner the better. Tell him to strike me dead right now. That will be fine with me. Why waste anymore time? I've already made my decision. I want no parts of his so-called "Heaven". I'm 61 years old. I've been tortured long enough. Just let me die. That's the only wish I have. Let's pray, Dear God in heaven (or wherever you're hiding tonight), I've considered your offer for eternal life and I'm not interested. Please terminate me at your earliest possible convenience. Thank you, Abra P.S. If you're going to stall on this request like you've done on all the others could you at least send me some cash now to pay my taxes until you finally get around to doing me in. Oh yeah, Tell Jesus and Buddha I said Hi. If you ever die and make one of them God then maybe they can re-create me. I might not mind living in one of their heavens. Make sure you give them my DNA coding and my current brain-scan so they can reproduce me precisely as I am. Only maybe leave off the hemorrhoids.  And so go the prayers of the sacreligious.  I think this could easily be tacked on to all those cute childrens prayers people pass around on the internet. In fact it could be a new email craze - naw, the truth is only cute when it comes from children whose beautiful developing minds can still be stunted and crammed into a belief system which requires logic and critical thinking to be absent. |
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Well first off, God isn't hiding. God is EVERYWHERE if you seek you shall find. God doesn't force us to guess anything. God is right there our father is EVERYWHERE, always there to answere any questions we may have. He's not playing any game in anyway, and there is no game it's all pretty cut and dry and totally seriouse. God does care if we believe, that is why he has done many things to show this. God has even sent his only begotten son to be crucified for us all. What more can you ask for? ====================================== Like I say, the way your God is now with his dishonest hide-and-seek game playing, I wouldn't even want any part of his insincere heaven. ====================================== Again, God isn't dishonest in any way, nor plays hide-and-seek. If people open their eyes, they shall see our father in everything he does. ========================================= The God you describe is NOT a righteous God by my personal understanding of what it means to be "righteous". ========================================= God is righteous in every way. God is always there to help when it is needed, God gives us everything we need. Our father is going to give us total paradise to abode in. No God doesn't "baby" us, we have to work for these great things. Wouldn't make much sence for God to just freely give it away without earning it, would be to easy. If God was going to do that, he would have just made us in heaven already, nothing earned, nothing lost. But that's not the way it works, heaven is EARNED. Has anyone heard from God lately about what's in the food we eat? I realize the Old Laws are no longer in place but you would think given all the toxin and carcinogens in our current food sources that god would tell SOMEBODY that we need to be more organic and stop with all the chemicals. Also, you'd think that god would look at America and say "stop it" - here - here's the new law about what is right and proper to consume and how it must be prepared for proper consumption. But no, apparently most poeple are too busy trying to determine if what they think they should do is their idea or god's because he doesn't seem to be coming through too clearly. really think about it where was he then or during the inquisition? or the sacrifice of christian lives for the enjoyment of roman spectators...meh to many why's and not enough answers |
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how come i sum up a persons 20 paragraph statement in 1 sentence i kill the thread?...seems to be a case closer i guess
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Well it's your choice my friend. And if you're just gonna totally refuse and deny it, there's nothing more i can do. What you do today, you'll have to sleep with tonight, i hope you have a great life my friend. Hope all your family and friends grow prosperous in life. Much love out to you and yours. Thanks for the well-wishes. Most of my family and friends are already dead, so they're already in the realm of the after life. Either that or they just ceased to exist. There is a problem with your claims about Christianity though. The story that you try to make it out to be doesn't make sense in terms of Adam and Eve falling from grace. If it was God's plan to simply raise souls and have them earn their way to heaven there would be no need for a story of a fall from grace, and a need for repentance. So I seriously doubt that very many recognized Christian denominations would agree with your views. By the way, what denomination are you preaching? Or is this your own personal brand of "Christianity"? I could make up my own brand of "Christianity" too, but I doubt that any recognized clergy would accept it. Of course, it's my firm conclusion that Jesus neither claimed to be, nor could have been, the only begotten son of Yahweh. So it would be silly for me to even call my 'version' of the story "Christianity" since I renounce the very idea that Jesus was "The Christ". So what official denomination of Christianity are you preaching? Or are you a lone protesting Protestant? ================================================ There is a problem with your claims about Christianity though. The story that you try to make it out to be doesn't make sense in terms of Adam and Eve falling from grace. ================================================= Adam and Eve were already in paradise. They didn't have to "earn" there way into heaven. Heaven isn't some place up in the sky my friend. God has hidden heaven from the world because of the sin here yes, but in the ends of time heaven will be placed back on earth and earth will be like in heaven. ================================================== If it was God's plan to simply raise souls and have them earn their way to heaven there would be no need for a story of a fall from grace, and a need for repentance. =================================================== This goes along with the first part of this post. If Adam and Eve would never have eat'n of the fruit and fell from grace, we would not have the same lives as of now. We would all just be born in the paradise. BUT since Adam and Eve ate of the fruit, we "fell" from the paradise and now we have to "earn" our way back in. ====================================================== By the way, what denomination are you preaching? Or is this your own personal brand of "Christianity"? ======================================================= I'm nondenominal. Denominations are the work of Satan keeping us all divided. We may believe in God, but we are still divided by the different dinominations. So i don't cling to one. |
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================================================ There is a problem with your claims about Christianity though. The story that you try to make it out to be doesn't make sense in terms of Adam and Eve falling from grace. ================================================= Adam and Eve were already in paradise. They didn't have to "earn" there way into heaven. Heaven isn't some place up in the sky my friend. God has hidden heaven from the world because of the sin here yes, but in the ends of time heaven will be placed back on earth and earth will be like in heaven. Well that still doesn't work for several reasons. First, by your own proclamation heaven isn't FREE it needs to be EARNED. Yet Adam and Eve would have been given Heaven for FREE. But then they "fell from Grace" even whilst in heaven. Thus proving that Heaven isn't a foolproof "safe" place to be anyway. In fact, didn't Satan and a bunch of other angels also "Fall from Grace" whilst in God's heaven? Heaven can't be all you claim it to be if people are constantly falling "out of Grace" when they are already in heaven. Moreover why should WE have to EARN our way to heaven based on what Adam and Eve did? I didn't eat no damned apple! Why doesn't God TEST ME directly on my own merit? ================================================== If it was God's plan to simply raise souls and have them earn their way to heaven there would be no need for a story of a fall from grace, and a need for repentance. =================================================== This goes along with the first part of this post. If Adam and Eve would never have eat'n of the fruit and fell from grace, we would not have the same lives as of now. We would all just be born in the paradise. BUT since Adam and Eve ate of the fruit, we "fell" from the paradise and now we have to "earn" our way back in. But that makes no sense. "WE" didn't fall from grace, Adam and Eve did! This is where your story breaks down. In fact, this is where the whole entire biblical mythology breaks down, right there on page one! ====================================================== By the way, what denomination are you preaching? Or is this your own personal brand of "Christianity"? ======================================================= I'm nondenominal. Denominations are the work of Satan keeping us all divided. We may believe in God, but we are still divided by the different dinominations. So i don't cling to one. So, in other words, you're just a "Designer Christian" or ("Salad Bar Christian") as some people call them. You just design your own version as a Protestant Paper Pope. That's understandable. That seems to be the newest fad in these modern times. In fact, I recently read about a study that looked into this and said that "Designer Christianity" is the fastest growing religion on the planet. But not because it's sucking up brand new members. What's actually happening is that the children of Christians (probably speaking about your generation actually) are increasingly renouncing the Church and "Formalized Christianity" and replacing it with their own make-believe versions. This transfer of "Traditional Christians" into "Designer Christians" doesn't show up in normal statistics because both of these groups continue to claim to be "Christians". They keep the same religion title and just change what the religions is all about. You've dropped the concept of "Hell" because you claim that you don't see any reliable references to it in the Bible. I could actually do the same thing with Jesus being the "Only Begotten Son" of God. Nowhere in the Bible does anyone have Jesus himself actually making this claim directly. Other authors have made it for him, but nowhere is Jesus actually quoted as saying this. At best he is quoted as having made pantheistic statements such as "I and the Father are One". But that's not anywhere near the same as claiming to be the "Only Begotten Son" of God. On the contrary, if taken literally it would be a claim to be God himself. Jesus is also quoted as saying something along the lines of, "Before Abraham was I AM". Again, I see that as a purely pantheistic statement supporting my view that Jesus was a Buddhist or pantheist. However, even if we take that to be a proclamation of being the Biblical "God" it most certainly isn't a claim to be the "Only Begotten Son" of God, but rather it's an outright claim to be God himself. In a pantheistic Eastern Mystic view it makes perfect sense. In the context of trying to claim that Jesus was the "Only Begotten Son" of God it doesn't work at all. So, in short, if you can drop the concept of "Hell" from the religion because you see nothing in the Bible that demands that, then I can drop the concept of Jesus being the "Only Begotten Son" of God because there's nowhere in the Bible where Jesus himself ever makes any such claim. Other people make it about him but he is never quoted as having made the claim himself. So if you think that "Designer Christianity" is going to do anything to make "Christianity" less "divisive" I think you're living in a dream world. You're still demanding that people must believe in him and recognize him to be their "Savior" in order to have ever-lasting life. So you haven't really gone all that far toward making the religion more palatable for people who simply can't believe that. It's simply not possible for me to believe that Jesus was the "Son of God" and has some special power to offer people anything special. As far as I can see he was teaching the very same things as Buddha. Although I confess that it's hard to tell for sure because it's obvious that the men who wrote about him were attempting to twist his words to fit into their belief system. But the bottom line is I see no reason to trust their "Hearsay". And this goes right back to my point about this God being extremely inept. If Jesus truly had the message from the creator of this universe (as you seem to believe) then anything short of actually writing that message down HIMSELF and making sure that it was preserved correctly would be a totally inept act on his part. He would have been a completely irresponsible messenger, to have allowed such an important message to be passed on by extremely questionable and ambiguous hearsay. This is what I mean about an extremely inept God. Not only does he only send a messenger to only ONE society on Earth, but he even allows that single message to become horribly tainted via belated Hearsay and Highly Questionable Translations. That would be an extremely inept creator. A creator who is extremely inept at communicating with his creation. I realize that none of this is sinking in for you because you seem to be totally oblivious to anything reasonable. You're dead set on demanding that Jesus Saves. But I'm posting this for the sake of other people who read these threads. I also think that my "Designer Christianity" that states that Jesus was actually a Mahayana Buddhist Bodhisattva who renounced the ways of the fictitious God of the Old Testament is just as valid as your "Designer Christianity". So our Paper Popeships have equal validity.  My Jesus is a Buddha. Your Jesus is a hell-less sacrificial lamb who came to "save" people from missing out on the chance to win a gift of eternal life, but really bungled the job by not writing down his own testament in his own words, and thus forcing everyone to have to argue over misinterpreted and misunderstood decades-belated hearsay. Gee, as a "Designer Christianity" mine doesn't sound too bad. Maybe I should start up an actual church and see how far it gets.  I'll bet I would get a congregation too. Although, in truth, I'm really not interested in starting up a church. I'd rather just teach Eastern Mysticism if I were actually going to become a priest, or "Guru". |
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And so go the prayers of the sacreligious. I think this could easily be tacked on to all those cute childrens prayers people pass around on the internet. In fact it could be a new email craze - naw, the truth is only cute when it comes from children whose beautiful developing minds can still be stunted and crammed into a belief system which requires logic and critical thinking to be absent. Hey, I might be 61 in physical age, but spiritually I'll always be a child. I took the religious people seriously when they said that you must come to "god" as a child, and because of that I refused to ever grow old spiritual. Although, in hindsight I think what they actually meant was that you need to be as naive as a child to believe in religion. |
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================================================ There is a problem with your claims about Christianity though. The story that you try to make it out to be doesn't make sense in terms of Adam and Eve falling from grace. ================================================= Adam and Eve were already in paradise. They didn't have to "earn" there way into heaven. Heaven isn't some place up in the sky my friend. God has hidden heaven from the world because of the sin here yes, but in the ends of time heaven will be placed back on earth and earth will be like in heaven. Well that still doesn't work for several reasons. First, by your own proclamation heaven isn't FREE it needs to be EARNED. Yet Adam and Eve would have been given Heaven for FREE. But then they "fell from Grace" even whilst in heaven. Thus proving that Heaven isn't a foolproof "safe" place to be anyway. In fact, didn't Satan and a bunch of other angels also "Fall from Grace" whilst in God's heaven? Heaven can't be all you claim it to be if people are constantly falling "out of Grace" when they are already in heaven. Moreover why should WE have to EARN our way to heaven based on what Adam and Eve did? I didn't eat no damned apple! Why doesn't God TEST ME directly on my own merit? ================================================== If it was God's plan to simply raise souls and have them earn their way to heaven there would be no need for a story of a fall from grace, and a need for repentance. =================================================== This goes along with the first part of this post. If Adam and Eve would never have eat'n of the fruit and fell from grace, we would not have the same lives as of now. We would all just be born in the paradise. BUT since Adam and Eve ate of the fruit, we "fell" from the paradise and now we have to "earn" our way back in. But that makes no sense. "WE" didn't fall from grace, Adam and Eve did! This is where your story breaks down. In fact, this is where the whole entire biblical mythology breaks down, right there on page one! ====================================================== By the way, what denomination are you preaching? Or is this your own personal brand of "Christianity"? ======================================================= I'm nondenominal. Denominations are the work of Satan keeping us all divided. We may believe in God, but we are still divided by the different dinominations. So i don't cling to one. So, in other words, you're just a "Designer Christian" or ("Salad Bar Christian") as some people call them. You just design your own version as a Protestant Paper Pope. That's understandable. That seems to be the newest fad in these modern times. In fact, I recently read about a study that looked into this and said that "Designer Christianity" is the fastest growing religion on the planet. But not because it's sucking up brand new members. What's actually happening is that the children of Christians (probably speaking about your generation actually) are increasingly renouncing the Church and "Formalized Christianity" and replacing it with their own make-believe versions. This transfer of "Traditional Christians" into "Designer Christians" doesn't show up in normal statistics because both of these groups continue to claim to be "Christians". They keep the same religion title and just change what the religions is all about. You've dropped the concept of "Hell" because you claim that you don't see any reliable references to it in the Bible. I could actually do the same thing with Jesus being the "Only Begotten Son" of God. Nowhere in the Bible does anyone have Jesus himself actually making this claim directly. Other authors have made it for him, but nowhere is Jesus actually quoted as saying this. At best he is quoted as having made pantheistic statements such as "I and the Father are One". But that's not anywhere near the same as claiming to be the "Only Begotten Son" of God. On the contrary, if taken literally it would be a claim to be God himself. Jesus is also quoted as saying something along the lines of, "Before Abraham was I AM". Again, I see that as a purely pantheistic statement supporting my view that Jesus was a Buddhist or pantheist. However, even if we take that to be a proclamation of being the Biblical "God" it most certainly isn't a claim to be the "Only Begotten Son" of God, but rather it's an outright claim to be God himself. In a pantheistic Eastern Mystic view it makes perfect sense. In the context of trying to claim that Jesus was the "Only Begotten Son" of God it doesn't work at all. So, in short, if you can drop the concept of "Hell" from the religion because you see nothing in the Bible that demands that, then I can drop the concept of Jesus being the "Only Begotten Son" of God because there's nowhere in the Bible where Jesus himself ever makes any such claim. Other people make it about him but he is never quoted as having made the claim himself. So if you think that "Designer Christianity" is going to do anything to make "Christianity" less "divisive" I think you're living in a dream world. You're still demanding that people must believe in him and recognize him to be their "Savior" in order to have ever-lasting life. So you haven't really gone all that far toward making the religion more palatable for people who simply can't believe that. It's simply not possible for me to believe that Jesus was the "Son of God" and has some special power to offer people anything special. As far as I can see he was teaching the very same things as Buddha. Although I confess that it's hard to tell for sure because it's obvious that the men who wrote about him were attempting to twist his words to fit into their belief system. But the bottom line is I see no reason to trust their "Hearsay". And this goes right back to my point about this God being extremely inept. If Jesus truly had the message from the creator of this universe (as you seem to believe) then anything short of actually writing that message down HIMSELF and making sure that it was preserved correctly would be a totally inept act on his part. He would have been a completely irresponsible messenger, to have allowed such an important message to be passed on by extremely questionable and ambiguous hearsay. This is what I mean about an extremely inept God. Not only does he only send a messenger to only ONE society on Earth, but he even allows that single message to become horribly tainted via belated Hearsay and Highly Questionable Translations. That would be an extremely inept creator. A creator who is extremely inept at communicating with his creation. I realize that none of this is sinking in for you because you seem to be totally oblivious to anything reasonable. You're dead set on demanding that Jesus Saves. But I'm posting this for the sake of other people who read these threads. I also think that my "Designer Christianity" that states that Jesus was actually a Mahayana Buddhist Bodhisattva who renounced the ways of the fictitious God of the Old Testament is just as valid as your "Designer Christianity". So our Paper Popeships have equal validity. My Jesus is a Buddha. Your Jesus is a hell-less sacrificial lamb who came to "save" people from missing out on the chance to win a gift of eternal life, but really bungled the job by not writing down his own testament in his own words, and thus forcing everyone to have to argue over misinterpreted and misunderstood decades-belated hearsay. Gee, as a "Designer Christianity" mine doesn't sound too bad. Maybe I should start up an actual church and see how far it gets. I'll bet I would get a congregation too. Although, in truth, I'm really not interested in starting up a church. I'd rather just teach Eastern Mysticism if I were actually going to become a priest, or "Guru". ========================================================== First, by your own proclamation heaven isn't FREE it needs to be EARNED. Yet Adam and Eve would have been given Heaven for FREE. But then they "fell from Grace" even whilst in heaven. Thus proving that Heaven isn't a foolproof "safe" place to be anyway. In fact, didn't Satan and a bunch of other angels also "Fall from Grace" whilst in God's heaven? ============================================================ Adam and Eve wasn't in heaven though. Adam and Eve was in the Garden of Eden. And that is where we were "suppose" to remain. Not just adam and eve was kicked out of heaven, all of the human race was kicked out. That is why they didn't have to "earn" there way into the garden and we do. And is why we have to earn our way into it, we have to show that we are not like them and will do the will of our father. ==================================================== Moreover why should WE have to EARN our way to heaven based on what Adam and Eve did? ===================================================== Again, not just Adam and Eve was kicked out. But the human race in general. So cause of what our ancestors did we have to regain God's trust in our obediance. Which is gained through our life on earth. =================================================== But that makes no sense. "WE" didn't fall from grace, Adam and Eve did! This is where your story breaks down. In fact, this is where the whole entire biblical mythology breaks down, right there on page one! ===================================================== No the story doesn't break down here. You've read the bible and should know that before Jesus came to earth, sins continued on from generation to generation. That is why we ALL are kicked out of the garden till we regain our way back into it. ======================================================== That's understandable. That seems to be the newest fad in these modern times. In fact, I recently read about a study that looked into this and said that "Designer Christianity" is the fastest growing religion on the planet. But not because it's sucking up brand new members. What's actually happening is that the children of Christians (probably speaking about your generation actually) are increasingly renouncing the Church and "Formalized Christianity" and replacing it with their own make-believe versions. This transfer of "Traditional Christians" into "Designer Christians" doesn't show up in normal statistics because both of these groups continue to claim to be "Christians". They keep the same religion title and just change what the religions is all about. =========================================================== No that's not what i'm saying. Denominations all have their different beliefs from different reasonings. Not saying one denomination is right, not saying any of them are wrong. But because of the title of denomination they've taken, they "have" to believe that way, or they obviousely are lieing and aren't what they claim to be. NOT one of us ANY of us have a full and complete understanding of what the bible tells us. ============================================================ You've dropped the concept of "Hell" because you claim that you don't see any reliable references to it in the Bible. ============================================================= No that is not it. The bible specifically says that hell is made for Satan and his minions and not for man. SPECIFICALLY says that. =============================================================== This is what I mean about an extremely inept God. Not only does he only send a messenger to only ONE society on Earth, but he even allows that single message to become horribly tainted via belated Hearsay and Highly Questionable Translations. ================================================================ And if God was to have stopped anyone from believing anyway he would have been taking away that person(s) free will. Which God has promised us, which then would have made him a liar. You're logic in all this is very off Abra, so until you truely learn what the bible teaches i'm done with you. Don't just read the words of the book, but take it ALL into perspective. Don't take one verse here and one verse there and make some morbid story that sounds good to you. TAKE IT ALL in the sequence it is found. |
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Edited by
Abracadabra
on
Mon 08/16/10 11:25 PM
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=============================================================== This is what I mean about an extremely inept God. Not only does he only send a messenger to only ONE society on Earth, but he even allows that single message to become horribly tainted via belated Hearsay and Highly Questionable Translations. ================================================================ And if God was to have stopped anyone from believing anyway he would have been taking away that person(s) free will. Which God has promised us, which then would have made him a liar. That's total baloney and totally misses the point. Either you are incapable of comprehending the point or you are purposefully in denial of it. It has absolutely nothing to do with interfering with anyone's FREE WILL. It wouldn't have been interfering with anyone's FREE WILL to have Jesus write down his very own message. It wouldn't have been interfering with anyone's FREE WILL to inspire sages from all over the world to write the same things. In fact, the whole basis of the Bible is that all of these authors were supposed to have been inspired by God to write what they wrote. Therefore, it cannot be considered an interference of FREE WILL for God to inspire people or influence them to do things. That flies in the very face of the Bible supposedly being the inspired word of God in the first place. You can't allow for God to inspire the Hebrews and no one else, and use the excuse that had he inspired anyone else he would have been violating their FREE WILL. That's baloney. It's a false and lame excuse that clearly doesn't fly. There is no excuse for God's ineptitude in the way he communicate with humanity. And attempting to use man's FREE WILL as an excuse simply doesn't work. That's an extremely lamb excuse that doesn't even come close to be a valid excuse. That's the typical Christian reply to these kinds of questions, but it simply doesn't hold water. It's utter baloney. There is no excuse for God's utter ineptitude to communicate his message to humanity in clear and certain terms without ambiguity. The mere FACT that the biblical story is so horribly tainted with hearsay, confusion, poor interpretation is proof positive that it could not have come from an all-wise competent God. It's proof positive that it came from a lamb society of mortal men who were making up their own crap. There's no getting around it, and the age-old argument that God couldn't do any better because he had to respect man's FREE WILL is utterly baloney and cannot even be applied to this situation at all. In fact, if God wanted to preserve man's FREE WILL that's all the more reason he should have had Jesus write everything down HIMSELF. The mere fact that he had to inspire men to write his book after Jesus died would indeed be an infringement upon THEIR FREE WILL! You always want you cake and eat it too! You want to claim that it's NOT an infringement upon the authors of the Bible for God to inspire them to write his word, but it somehow would be an infringement upon authors of other societies if God inspired them to write precisely the same things. It can't work that way. Either God can inspire men to write his word, or he can't. You can't have your cake and eat it too by claiming that somehow the Bible is the only exception to this rule throughout the entire world. That's baloney. And I'm speaking about BOTH the OLD and the NEW testaments! There was also no reason for God to have stopped at only having "ONE" begotten son. He should have had several dispersed strategically throughout the world. After all, God is the one who designed the world to be as large as it is! Are you trying to tell me that an all-wise God wouldn't have been wise enough to recognize the problems he would cause by doing things the way they were actually done? I don't buy it. It makes far more sense to me to just recognize that this religion is nothing more than the opinionated hearsay views of a single society. We have absolutely no more reason to believe the ancient Hebrews than we have to believe any other sages throughout the whole world. I have absolutely no more reason to believe in the biblical mythology than I have for believing in the Greek mythology. None whatsoever. They are both equally stupid stories. Just because God supposedly promised mankind that we could have FREE WILL does not limit God in anyway from communicating with us. God could come to my door right now and reveal himself to me and he hasn't interfered with my FREE WILL, I could STILL choose to accept him or reject him. It wouldn't affect my FREE WILL one iota. And this is especially true if it's your claim that men are knowingly "Turning Away from God"! That would be the ultimate test. Let God show himself to me directly and then if I "Turn Away" there will be no question whatsoever that I have rejected him and not merely misunderstood. As it is now, your scenario actually DOES VIOLATE man's FREE WILL, because it robs mankind of sufficient information to make a properly informed CHOICE. Therefore there can be no FREE WILL. Atheists who don't believe in God, do not CHOOSE to not believe in God. They don't believe in God because it makes SENSE to not believe in God based on the INFORMATION they have available. Therefore they would be ROBBED of their FREE WILL because they have been given FALSE or INCOMPLETE INFORMATION! You say that I totally misunderstand the Bible. If that TRUE, then clearly I cannot make a correctly informed CHOICE about the Bible and therefore my FREE WILL has been ROBBED from me because the information was horrible tainted an incomplete to the point where I got the WRONG PICTURE! So in truth, you're screaming about God not being able to interfere with man's FREE WILL is actually backfiring. By God allowing men to be mislead and misinformed he has ROBBED them of the ability to make WISE choices based on their FREE WILL. Choices made on false and tainted date do not support a God who preserves man's FREE WILL. On the contrary it's a picture of a God who spits in the face of FREE WILL. No, your FREE WILL excuse for God doesn't cut it. FREE WILL is meaningless in the face of corrupt and untrustworthy information. Any all-wise God would know that. That's why the Bible had to have been written by stupid men, and not an all-wise God. |
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think what you want but as an adult i refuse to believe that man was made from dirt,clay or whatever then a rib from man was used to create a woman...i mean really people believe this? half the crap that happened in the bible if someone said they seen it or it happened to them they would be Baker Acted,these days I totally respect that I believe man was made from dirt because to dirt is where we return from http://www.environmentalgraffiti.com/nature/news-what-exactly-happens-your-body-when-you-shuffle-mortal-coil If left to its own devices your body will, quite literally return to the earth, as you are broken down by nature into your component parts. Earth to earth, ashes to ashes, dust to dust. This is the way every one of us will end up, silent contributors to the future of our planet and all that live upon it ..the body is complex enough for me to believe it was created intelligently, its decomposition to dust is enough for me to believe it came from dust its much more 'logical' to me than it being some accident that followed a big random 'bang' but its just my opinion |
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'...and it cameth to noah,and noah looked upeth to god and asked,"really how in the hell is a 60ft dinosaur going to fit in my ark?"
book of RKISIT 1:1 |
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'...and it cameth to noah,and noah looked upeth to god and asked,"really how in the hell is a 60ft dinosaur going to fit in my ark?" book of RKISIT 1:1 That explains how the dinosaurs became extinct. There was no room for them in the inn. Only the free-swimming dinosaurs were able to survive and that explains the Loch Ness Monster. See, the Bible explains everything, it's the perfect infallible book. It must be from God because who else could know all this stuff? Get down on your knees brother and repent for your heathen ways. For the Word of God is clear as mud and can be twisted to say anything we want thus it must always contain truth. Can you not see the wisdom in this my brother? Let us pray. Dear Father whose always in heaven hollow be they name hide-and-seek you made men weak to fail your silly game We pray to you through your boy the Jew to save us from our sins And sing to you in wordless praise we play on violins  |
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'...and it cameth to noah,and noah looked upeth to god and asked,"really how in the hell is a 60ft dinosaur going to fit in my ark?" book of RKISIT 1:1 That explains how the dinosaurs became extinct. There was no room for them in the inn. Only the free-swimming dinosaurs were able to survive and that explains the Loch Ness Monster. See, the Bible explains everything, it's the perfect infallible book. It must be from God because who else could know all this stuff? Get down on your knees brother and repent for your heathen ways. For the Word of God is clear as mud and can be twisted to say anything we want thus it must always contain truth. Can you not see the wisdom in this my brother? Let us pray. Dear Father whose always in heaven hollow be they name hide-and-seek you made men weak to fail your silly game We pray to you through your boy the Jew to save us from our sins And sing to you in wordless praise we play on violins yeah but the thing is there were smaller dinosaurs such as the Compsognathus and Lesothosaurus that could have easily been put on the ark,but i was laughing at your sarcasm pretty funny
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Abra Wrote:
So if you think that "Designer Christianity" is going to do anything to make "Christianity" less "divisive" I think you're living in a dream world. You're still demanding that people must believe in him and recognize him to be their "Savior" in order to have ever-lasting life. So you haven't really gone all that far toward making the religion more palatable for people who simply can't believe that. In several threads people get slammed for making the label "Christianity" inclusive of 'all' Christians. But if the beliefs that guide individual ideology are so incredibly different that an individual takes offense when being included under the label, which has been self-proclaimed, - then it would be wise to change the label. REFUSE to be included under the label Christian, and mark the OTHER box if no other religious choice matches your ideology. And in discussion identify your ideology by a more appropriate label, like "I am a Designer Christian". At least then, others can ask the person "oh, what is it that makes your belief different from organized Christian beliefs?" Of course, we may find that some 'Designer Christians' are simply not familiar with organized Christian beliefs and that their individual beliefs are actually in line with organized Christian gourps. And some may simply disagree on some minor, irrelevant, points and thus should be labeled 'Christian' anyway. But at least they would have the opportunity to defend their reasoning for requesting to be excluded from the umbrella label 'Christian'. I mean - how long did it take you Abra, to find a label that is not offensive to you should someone say "oh, you are a panthiest." At least that label has room under it for some personal interpretation, as opposed to mainstream Christian groups who all believe their interpretation is the only right one and does not allow individual interpretation from within the group - or they are wrong. So I find absolutely nothing wrong with self-labeling as a 'Designer Christian', like being a panthiest, at least we would understand there is room for individual interpretation. Then 'Designer' Christians would not feel targeted when mainstream Christian beliefs become a topic to be defended. |
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Edited by
Redykeulous
on
Tue 08/17/10 11:28 AM
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========================================================== First, by your own proclamation heaven isn't FREE it needs to be EARNED. Yet Adam and Eve would have been given Heaven for FREE. But then they "fell from Grace" even whilst in heaven. Thus proving that Heaven isn't a foolproof "safe" place to be anyway. In fact, didn't Satan and a bunch of other angels also "Fall from Grace" whilst in God's heaven? Reply: Adam and Eve wasn't in heaven though. Adam and Eve was in the Garden of Eden. And that is where we were "suppose" to remain. Not just adam and eve was kicked out of heaven, all of the human race was kicked out. That is why they didn't have to "earn" there way into the garden and we do. And is why we have to earn our way into it, we have to show that we are not like them and will do the will of our father. Illogical thought process at work here. God is supposed to exist outside the boundary of time. That is why God knows all. Now - in the perfect garden that God created for his perfectly "in his image" people - you are trying to say that God had no idea what would happen? And another thing - why is it that God put that perfect 'in his own image' creation in the same place to which Satan had been delegated to? There are literally billions of planets - why are both Satan and Adam and Eve on the same one? |
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Edited by
s1owhand
on
Tue 08/17/10 11:32 AM
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Religion is fundamentally philosophy. One can no more ditch religion
than they can deny the questions... I find it amusing that people wish to get rid of the basic questions of our existence - as if by not asking them they might just go away... They will not.
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think what you want but as an adult i refuse to believe that man was made from dirt,clay or whatever then a rib from man was used to create a woman...i mean really people believe this? half the crap that happened in the bible if someone said they seen it or it happened to them they would be Baker Acted,these days I totally respect that I believe man was made from dirt because to dirt is where we return from http://www.environmentalgraffiti.com/nature/news-what-exactly-happens-your-body-when-you-shuffle-mortal-coil If left to its own devices your body will, quite literally return to the earth, as you are broken down by nature into your component parts. Earth to earth, ashes to ashes, dust to dust. This is the way every one of us will end up, silent contributors to the future of our planet and all that live upon it ..the body is complex enough for me to believe it was created intelligently, its decomposition to dust is enough for me to believe it came from dust its much more 'logical' to me than it being some accident that followed a big random 'bang' but its just my opinion it is debatable whether there was dinosaurs mentioned in the bible( I believe there were, under different nams of course) but even IF they werent,, so what a common misnoner with unbelievers is some idea that the bible is a book that was supposed to specifically record EVERY event and EVERY living thing,,,,, which would be humanly impossible to do in a book that was meant for anyone to actually be able to LIFT,,lol octopus arent specifically named in the bible but who cares,, really |
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No that's not what i'm saying. Denominations all have their different beliefs from different reasonings. Not saying one denomination is right, not saying any of them are wrong. But because of the title of denomination they've taken, they "have" to believe that way, or they obviousely are lieing and aren't what they claim to be. NOT one of us ANY of us have a full and complete understanding of what the bible tells us. Then what is the importance of your belief, or any Christian based belief? If individuals, totally ignoring biblical scripture, would critically consider their actions with logic in terms of societal human ethics, good works would far outweigh their counterparts. By attempting to achieve religious 'purity', within the restrictions of sociatal social and civil norms, Christians end up conflicted and their only option is to discriminate against and ostrasize others. The action of discrimination stems from personal judgments. So according to mainstream Christian thought, they are sinning, not only by judging but by taking action on that judgment which end up being discrminiation. Discrimination sets Christians up to trip over all kinds of other sinful actions. So it makes more sense to simply keep an individual relationship with God, a private and personal matter, while accepting any civil law or adaptation of that law, which does not infringe on that 'personal' right. A person doing that, is recognizing Earthly authority (as scripture instructs) while still paying due respect to heavenly authority on a personal level. I would guess, in that way, most Christians would sin considerably less. |
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