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| Topic: Why we should ditch religion | |
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You may be convinced they are facts, but still nevertheless they are not facts. Just using your same defence as you do, cause to me I know for a fact God is real, there is plenty of evidence in every way. Cause regardless of how much there may be proof for either side, it all boils down to personal perspective and how each one of us sees it. NO ONE can "prove for a fact" that we evolved from lower life forms, and NO ONE can "prove for a fact" that God created us. It all boils down to what you want to see as truth. Evolution doesn't conflict with an idea of a God unless you have an extremely limited picture of God. Why should you believe that God would need to baby-sit the universe? Don't you think God is capable of creating a universe that can evolve on its own without a constant need to baby-sit it? |
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You may be convinced they are facts, but still nevertheless they are not facts. Just using your same defence as you do, cause to me I know for a fact God is real, there is plenty of evidence in every way. Cause regardless of how much there may be proof for either side, it all boils down to personal perspective and how each one of us sees it. NO ONE can "prove for a fact" that we evolved from lower life forms, and NO ONE can "prove for a fact" that God created us. It all boils down to what you want to see as truth. Cowboy, I respectfully disagree. It is true that 'what we choose to believe" boils down to what you want to see as truth. But the fact that one cannot prove either of the positions you listed with absolute certainty does not put them on equal footing. Say your paper was stolen this morning, from your driveway, before you woke up. You suspect your neighbor (who doesn't subscribe to the paper, yet was seen reading one that morning), but you can't prove it. I think it was Obama that personally stole your paper, but I can't prove that either. Just because we have two different positions, and neither can prove it, doesn't make us both equally reasonable, sane, or well informed. There are people who deny that facts exist, but as far as I'm concerned they are delusional people. They might as well jump of a 10th story balcony above an empty parking lot - I mean, if its not a 'fact' that they would fall with potentially lethal velocity from that height. It is basically an established fact that our distant ancestors were non-human primates (a subtle but significant difference than claiming we 'evolved from' non-human primates)....this fact is as basic and as necessarily true as the fact that you great-great-great-grandparents were humans - even if we have no *direct* evidence of this. When sane, intelligent people deny the fact that our distant ancestors were non-human primates - well, they are simply not educated and informed about our knowledge of biology, which substantiates this fact. |
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Edited by
JamieRawxx
on
Mon 08/16/10 08:18 AM
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iam 100% pro evolution and i am proud of it. I'm convinced 100% that evolution is true based on the evidence. I'm no more proud of evolution than I am of the fact that the Earth goes around the son. I had nothing to do with either situation. They're just facts.  They are theories and observations, they are not FACTS. That is why the title itself is the "Theory" of evolution. |
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You may be convinced they are facts, but still nevertheless they are not facts. Just using your same defence as you do, cause to me I know for a fact God is real, there is plenty of evidence in every way. Cause regardless of how much there may be proof for either side, it all boils down to personal perspective and how each one of us sees it. NO ONE can "prove for a fact" that we evolved from lower life forms, and NO ONE can "prove for a fact" that God created us. It all boils down to what you want to see as truth. Cowboy, I respectfully disagree. It is true that 'what we choose to believe" boils down to what you want to see as truth. But the fact that one cannot prove either of the positions you listed with absolute certainty does not put them on equal footing. Say your paper was stolen this morning, from your driveway, before you woke up. You suspect your neighbor (who doesn't subscribe to the paper, yet was seen reading one that morning), but you can't prove it. I think it was Obama that personally stole your paper, but I can't prove that either. Just because we have two different positions, and neither can prove it, doesn't make us both equally reasonable, sane, or well informed. There are people who deny that facts exist, but as far as I'm concerned they are delusional people. They might as well jump of a 10th story balcony above an empty parking lot - I mean, if its not a 'fact' that they would fall with potentially lethal velocity from that height. It is basically an established fact that our distant ancestors were non-human primates (a subtle but significant difference than claiming we 'evolved from' non-human primates)....this fact is as basic and as necessarily true as the fact that you great-great-great-grandparents were humans - even if we have no *direct* evidence of this. When sane, intelligent people deny the fact that our distant ancestors were non-human primates - well, they are simply not educated and informed about our knowledge of biology, which substantiates this fact. i 100% agree. |
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It is basically an established fact that our distant ancestors were non-human primates (a subtle but significant difference than claiming we 'evolved from' non-human primates)....this fact is as basic and as necessarily true as the fact that you great-great-great-grandparents were humans - even if we have no *direct* evidence of this. When sane, intelligent people deny the fact that our distant ancestors were non-human primates - well, they are simply not educated and informed about our knowledge of biology, which substantiates this fact. Truly. |
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You may be convinced they are facts, but still nevertheless they are not facts. Just using your same defence as you do, cause to me I know for a fact God is real, there is plenty of evidence in every way. Cause regardless of how much there may be proof for either side, it all boils down to personal perspective and how each one of us sees it. NO ONE can "prove for a fact" that we evolved from lower life forms, and NO ONE can "prove for a fact" that God created us. It all boils down to what you want to see as truth. Evolution doesn't conflict with an idea of a God unless you have an extremely limited picture of God. Why should you believe that God would need to baby-sit the universe? Don't you think God is capable of creating a universe that can evolve on its own without a constant need to baby-sit it? It doesn't conflict with "evolution" in general. Cause the human race evolves. It's just the fact of the "theory of evolution" it doesn't work with. The theory we evolved from an ape if you may. Yes God created this body to evolve to what surroundings we're in, eg., people in colder climates tend to have more body fat then people native to deserts. People in hotter climates tend to have a darker complexion. This is ALL evolution. The human race didn't start because some "Big Bang Theory" or any of such. But nevertheless, we've ALWAYS been "human beings". No apes, no nothing of any lower life form. |
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You may be convinced they are facts, but still nevertheless they are not facts. Just using your same defence as you do, cause to me I know for a fact God is real, there is plenty of evidence in every way. Cause regardless of how much there may be proof for either side, it all boils down to personal perspective and how each one of us sees it. NO ONE can "prove for a fact" that we evolved from lower life forms, and NO ONE can "prove for a fact" that God created us. It all boils down to what you want to see as truth. Cowboy, I respectfully disagree. It is true that 'what we choose to believe" boils down to what you want to see as truth. But the fact that one cannot prove either of the positions you listed with absolute certainty does not put them on equal footing. Say your paper was stolen this morning, from your driveway, before you woke up. You suspect your neighbor (who doesn't subscribe to the paper, yet was seen reading one that morning), but you can't prove it. I think it was Obama that personally stole your paper, but I can't prove that either. Just because we have two different positions, and neither can prove it, doesn't make us both equally reasonable, sane, or well informed. There are people who deny that facts exist, but as far as I'm concerned they are delusional people. They might as well jump of a 10th story balcony above an empty parking lot - I mean, if its not a 'fact' that they would fall with potentially lethal velocity from that height. It is basically an established fact that our distant ancestors were non-human primates (a subtle but significant difference than claiming we 'evolved from' non-human primates)....this fact is as basic and as necessarily true as the fact that you great-great-great-grandparents were humans - even if we have no *direct* evidence of this. When sane, intelligent people deny the fact that our distant ancestors were non-human primates - well, they are simply not educated and informed about our knowledge of biology, which substantiates this fact. ======================================= It is basically an established fact that our distant ancestors were non-human primates (a subtle but significant difference than claiming we 'evolved from' non-human primates)....this fact is as basic and as necessarily true as the fact that you great-great-great-grandparents were humans - even if we have no *direct* evidence of this. ======================================== It is still nevertheless not a FACT. It is nevertheless a "theory". You said it right there "even if we have no *direct* evidence of this*. To make a theory a fact, you HAVE to have evidence...... *direct* evidence if you will. |
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Edited by
RKISIT
on
Mon 08/16/10 11:25 AM
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think what you want but as an adult i refuse to believe that man was made from dirt,clay or whatever then a rib from man was used to create a woman...i mean really people believe this?
 half the crap that happened in the bible if someone said they seen it or it happened to them they would be Baker Acted,these days |
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think what you want but as an adult i refuse to believe that man was made from dirt,clay or whatever then a rib from man was used to create a woman...i mean really people believe this? half the crap that happened in the bible if someone said they seen it or it happened to them they would be Baker Acted,these days I totally respect that I believe man was made from dirt because to dirt is where we return from http://www.environmentalgraffiti.com/nature/news-what-exactly-happens-your-body-when-you-shuffle-mortal-coil If left to its own devices your body will, quite literally return to the earth, as you are broken down by nature into your component parts. Earth to earth, ashes to ashes, dust to dust. This is the way every one of us will end up, silent contributors to the future of our planet and all that live upon it ..the body is complex enough for me to believe it was created intelligently, its decomposition to dust is enough for me to believe it came from dust its much more 'logical' to me than it being some accident that followed a big random 'bang' but its just my opinion |
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think what you want but as an adult i refuse to believe that man was made from dirt,clay or whatever then a rib from man was used to create a woman...i mean really people believe this? half the crap that happened in the bible if someone said they seen it or it happened to them they would be Baker Acted,these days Well is it a coincidence that men do truely have one less rib then women? Or do you think these people that originally wrote the scriptures had enough knowledge of the human body to point that out because men just so happened to have one less rib, so they made a story to go along with that? |
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Edited by
RKISIT
on
Mon 08/16/10 11:34 AM
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think what you want but as an adult i refuse to believe that man was made from dirt,clay or whatever then a rib from man was used to create a woman...i mean really people believe this? half the crap that happened in the bible if someone said they seen it or it happened to them they would be Baker Acted,these days Well is it a coincidence that men do truely have one less rib then women? Or do you think these people that originally wrote the scriptures had enough knowledge of the human body to point that out because men just so happened to have one less rib, so they made a story to go along with that? |
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think what you want but as an adult i refuse to believe that man was made from dirt,clay or whatever then a rib from man was used to create a woman...i mean really people believe this? half the crap that happened in the bible if someone said they seen it or it happened to them they would be Baker Acted,these days Well is it a coincidence that men do truely have one less rib then women? Or do you think these people that originally wrote the scriptures had enough knowledge of the human body to point that out because men just so happened to have one less rib, so they made a story to go along with that? When looking at a dead body/skeleton, do you truely think they examined it so deeply to notice the difference in one rib? Heck most people in those times couldn't even count. |
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think what you want but as an adult i refuse to believe that man was made from dirt,clay or whatever then a rib from man was used to create a woman...i mean really people believe this? half the crap that happened in the bible if someone said they seen it or it happened to them they would be Baker Acted,these days Well is it a coincidence that men do truely have one less rib then women? Or do you think these people that originally wrote the scriptures had enough knowledge of the human body to point that out because men just so happened to have one less rib, so they made a story to go along with that? When looking at a dead body/skeleton, do you truely think they examined it so deeply to notice the difference in one rib? Heck most people in those times couldn't even count.
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think what you want but as an adult i refuse to believe that man was made from dirt,clay or whatever then a rib from man was used to create a woman...i mean really people believe this? half the crap that happened in the bible if someone said they seen it or it happened to them they would be Baker Acted,these days Well is it a coincidence that men do truely have one less rib then women? Or do you think these people that originally wrote the scriptures had enough knowledge of the human body to point that out because men just so happened to have one less rib, so they made a story to go along with that? When looking at a dead body/skeleton, do you truely think they examined it so deeply to notice the difference in one rib? Heck most people in those times couldn't even count. What does education have to do with anything? And what is education? Can an educated man survive in the wilderness with his education on hunting and overall survival? Or is an educated man a man that knows how to split atoms? Or is an educated man just a man that has been taught things through school? What exactly is an educated man? Guess it would lay with what you see what is important. If how the world goes round important to know? Or is how to get into heaven important? |
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think what you want but as an adult i refuse to believe that man was made from dirt,clay or whatever then a rib from man was used to create a woman...i mean really people believe this? half the crap that happened in the bible if someone said they seen it or it happened to them they would be Baker Acted,these days Well is it a coincidence that men do truely have one less rib then women? Or do you think these people that originally wrote the scriptures had enough knowledge of the human body to point that out because men just so happened to have one less rib, so they made a story to go along with that? When looking at a dead body/skeleton, do you truely think they examined it so deeply to notice the difference in one rib? Heck most people in those times couldn't even count. What does education have to do with anything? And what is education? Can an educated man survive in the wilderness with his education on hunting and overall survival? Or is an educated man a man that knows how to split atoms? Or is an educated man just a man that has been taught things through school? What exactly is an educated man? Guess it would lay with what you see what is important. If how the world goes round important to know? Or is how to get into heaven important? And further and deeper then that. Why wait? Why wait on giving EVERYONE the good news as fast as possible? Why deprive some people the knowledge because they were waiting? And what exactly is uneducated about the bible? |
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this debate is like beating a dead horse...we'll know when we die then everyones debate will be answered
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And what exactly is uneducated about the bible? The story demands that God is all-wise, yet it depicts a story of a God who is extremely unwise and completely inept. I'm not sure if that qualifies it as being "uneducated", but it certainly qualifies it as being dumber than rocks. Besides, there are far more intelligent pictures of spirituality to be had, so why become obsessed and buried in a story that demands that God is stupid? It's ridiculous if not "uneducated". Besides, by it's own confession, it's a story of a loser God. The biblical God loses the vast majority of souls that he creates. The souls he created continued to turn against him until he finally had to flood them all off the planet. Then he tried to start a second batch and that didn't do any better. He had to send his "only begotten Son' to be nailed to a pole to try to "save" a few souls. And even his Son himself states that only few will make it into the kingdom of God. Why you believe that you're going to be among those few is beyond me. But in any case, it's clearly as self-confessed story of a loser God. What's so intelligent 'or educated' about a loser God?  At least in the mystic pantheistic view of spirituality everyone returns to "god" in the end, there can be no "losers" because all is one. All are God. So what's the obsession with wanting to believe in a loser God who's depicted as being dumber than rocks? He can't even communicate with the objects of his own creation without extreme confusion and ambiguity. That's hardly an 'all-wise' God. So I don't even see the attraction to a religion that is an abomination to both mankind and our creator. What's the point to it other than to dwell on an extremely unhealthy obsession with sin and salvation and religious bigotry? I would only "believe" in it if I had no other choice. And even then I would reject the offer to be "Saved" and willfully volunteer to perish, because I would rather perish than serve the will of a bumbling idiot who can't even communicate well for the rest of eternity. That would be worse than perishing, IMHO. So I see absolutely no attraction to that mythology at all. |
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And further and deeper then that. Why wait? Why wait on giving EVERYONE the good news as fast as possible? Why deprive some people the knowledge because they were waiting? What good news? That the Bible clearly states that only FEW will make it into the Kingdom of God? What, pray tell, is so great about that? Even Jesus said that only FEW will make it. So unless you're going to deny the words of your Lord, you'll have to acknowledge that as a religion it truly sucks because as a religion it demands that MOST people will NOT make it into heaven. How is that GOOD news? Consider pantheism. EVERYONE returns to God because there is NO WHERE ELSE to go!  Now THAT my friend, is TRULY GOOD NEWS for everyone! Your religion has no good news to spread at all. It demands that only FEW will make it into the kingdom of God. That is NOT good news.
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And what exactly is uneducated about the bible? The story demands that God is all-wise, yet it depicts a story of a God who is extremely unwise and completely inept. I'm not sure if that qualifies it as being "uneducated", but it certainly qualifies it as being dumber than rocks. Besides, there are far more intelligent pictures of spirituality to be had, so why become obsessed and buried in a story that demands that God is stupid? It's ridiculous if not "uneducated". Besides, by it's own confession, it's a story of a loser God. The biblical God loses the vast majority of souls that he creates. The souls he created continued to turn against him until he finally had to flood them all off the planet. Then he tried to start a second batch and that didn't do any better. He had to send his "only begotten Son' to be nailed to a pole to try to "save" a few souls. And even his Son himself states that only few will make it into the kingdom of God. Why you believe that you're going to be among those few is beyond me. But in any case, it's clearly as self-confessed story of a loser God. What's so intelligent 'or educated' about a loser God? At least in the mystic pantheistic view of spirituality everyone returns to "god" in the end, there can be no "losers" because all is one. All are God. So what's the obsession with wanting to believe in a loser God who's depicted as being dumber than rocks? He can't even communicate with the objects of his own creation without extreme confusion and ambiguity. That's hardly an 'all-wise' God. So I don't even see the attraction to a religion that is an abomination to both mankind and our creator. What's the point to it other than to dwell on an extremely unhealthy obsession with sin and salvation and religious bigotry? I would only "believe" in it if I had no other choice. And even then I would reject the offer to be "Saved" and willfully volunteer to perish, because I would rather perish than serve the will of a bumbling idiot who can't even communicate well for the rest of eternity. That would be worse than perishing, IMHO. So I see absolutely no attraction to that mythology at all. The flaw isn't in the design my friend. If God was to have made us to where we didn't do what we want weather it was against his will or with his will, we wouldn't have FREE WILL. There's NOTHING God can do differently that wouldn't take away free will. God isn't to blame for his creation turning against him, for it was the creations fault. ================================================ The story demands that God is all-wise, yet it depicts a story of a God who is extremely unwise and completely inept. I'm not sure if that qualifies it as being "uneducated", but it certainly qualifies it as being dumber than rocks. Besides, there are far more intelligent pictures of spirituality to be had, so why become obsessed and buried in a story that demands that God is stupid? It's ridiculous if not "uneducated" ================================================= Again i do realize you feel God is stupid, inept, and or unducated. But please share some of the evidence you have that shows this? And the evidence can not be opinionated, for if it's opinionated, it's no longer a fact, but a perspective. |
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And further and deeper then that. Why wait? Why wait on giving EVERYONE the good news as fast as possible? Why deprive some people the knowledge because they were waiting? What good news? That the Bible clearly states that only FEW will make it into the Kingdom of God? What, pray tell, is so great about that? Even Jesus said that only FEW will make it. So unless you're going to deny the words of your Lord, you'll have to acknowledge that as a religion it truly sucks because as a religion it demands that MOST people will NOT make it into heaven. How is that GOOD news? Consider pantheism. EVERYONE returns to God because there is NO WHERE ELSE to go! Now THAT my friend, is TRULY GOOD NEWS for everyone! Your religion has no good news to spread at all. It demands that only FEW will make it into the kingdom of God. That is NOT good news. Yes only a few will make it, not by God and Jesus' choice, just it's the bottom line fact. It's our choice weather we will live for ever or perish my friend, this choice is done by the actions we take on earth. NO ONE is "destined" for anything, it all revolves around how we live our lives. |
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