i agree Hanged and because we're at war,treat every prisoner as an enemy!

America has always acted honorably, regardless of what our enemies have done. Why under this Administration have we suddenly thrown out our values and honor!

This is not the first war we have been in that our enemy acts without honor, but it is the first time our government has openly and actively condoned we react with equal ignorance and inhumanity!

We used to be a proud nation and held in high regard around the world. Now we are no better than the immoral, barbarians we fight!

As a soldier, I always realized that if ever captured I might be tortured or killed. It would have been naive to expect anything less than that possibility, and I accepted that fact when I took my oath.

I always took pride and motivation from the fact that I was an American soldier and my country did not stoop to that level. If they had I would have been ashamed and embarrassed by my service.

We are Americans, we should be proud of the traditions and reputation we have earned in this world. Unfortunately this Administration as damaged that reputation amongst not only our enemies, but also amongst our friends.

Once we were a beacon of honesty, humanity, and integrity, now we are the butt of jokes and ridicule even here at home!

Wake up? Ive am awake and I am ashamed of what we have become!

Signed a once proud American Vet!

Fortunately, the people who feel like this is a prper way for America to act are a minority!

A loud minority, but nonetheless a minority, and soon we will be rid of the idiot that brought us to this shameful point in history!!!

I never said we should start chopping off heads.
I do agree that we should set an example.
I'm all for treating people with honor and respect.
But we are at war. And I believe that all the negative actions that come from THIS country (I could care less what the other countries think about us) hurts the men and women fighting this war.

Signed a still proud american

Im glad to hear you dont condone this treatment of human beings Brian! There has always been acts done by individual soldiers in anger or the heat of battle, but to be accepted as policy by our gov. is despicable!

Maybe, its because I can remember vividly how soldiers were treated after Vietnam, but I think our soldiers today are treated very respectably! The honor they recieve any Vietnam Vet would have been proud to recieve, and the hardships they faced were far worse than that of this war!!!

I agree you got a bad deal.
It's a downright outrage.
As a Vietnam vet you should know that when the country you are serving is critical towards you it hurts.

Not many people like Bush. He's lied about damn near everything.
I have family in Iraq and it just burns me up to hear negetive words about the war.
I see my sisters faces and see the fear they have for their sons.
My nephews are proud to serve this country.
Not likeing Bush is fine.
I don't either.
But please, you know how important it is, support our men and women in any way you can.

Carter is an enigma. He's an intelligent man, but he has no regard for his country. How can a man at the top of a country consistently make choices that harm the country and then go on to slander his own country for decades? Even his evangelical outlook can not possibly justify that sort of behavior.

I think if this were many centuries back he would be one of the dangerous idiots seeking to gain power by walking the countryside scourging himself with a whip until he was bloody and preaching poverty, abstinence and self effacement, while damning everyone who did not agree with him. He is a horrible man.

That's insightful 'philosopher'

You end your unflattering comments about Carter with the following statement:

"... He is a horrible man..."

In the world, ... the rest of the world that is, Carter is seen as one of the greatest dignitaries this century has produced. Amongst the VERY FINEST the US, and the PLANET has to offer.

While you don't have to like the man, isn't it unwise to chose Carter for your 'American bashing'!!!

Here are just a few achievements and accolades about the man:

TIME en 1989 names him "Best ex-president of the US".

He founds in 1982, The Carter Foundation, dedicated to conflict resolution, promotion of democracy, and support for humanitarian missions. This brought him to Panama, Haïti, Ethiopia, Indonesia, Palestinian territories, as an international observer of democratic due process during election periods.

He plaid a key role, as chief mediator, in 1994, to bring nuclar crisis between the US and North Korea.

That same year, he helped avoid an armed invasion by American troops in Haïti, and negotiated a 'cease-fire' in Bosnia-Herzegovina.

In Africa, he leads an ambitious dvelopment program which was successful in ridding the continent of the deadly Guinea Worm.

In 2002, while in Cuba on a historical visit, Jimmy Carter harshly critized the government's human rights deficit on public TV, but also decried the injustice of the economic embargo against the cuban people.

He was attributed the Nobel Prize for world peace in 2002!!!


I repeat 'philosopher, not a credible target for your 'american bashing'.

With all due respect to you 'philosopher'.

well every one keeps quoting the geneva convention

what doe it say about those not wearing
the uniform of there armed forces

while caring out military operations

if i remember correctly

they can be shot as spys

just a thought

In the US history, only two ex-presidents have ever said anything negative about a sitting president, Carter and Clinton. Carter was a failed president, who invented "Stagflation" with his horrifically uninformed economic policies. The tax rate on the richest people in America was 79%, which was on par for a socialist country. Carter is a rabid Jew-hater and his book suggesting that Israel is an apartied state is ludicris. Muslims have more freedom within Israel than they do in any Muslim nation. There is evidence that suggests that Carter urged Arafat to refuse any deal offering statehood for Palestine, which completely derailed the Camp David peace talks. Overall, Carter is proof that an intelligent man can be completely wrong most of the time.

Well!!! 'spider' must be right!!!

I give up in front of such 'well researched' partisan mud sludging!!!

I guess I, along with the rest of world, are wrong:

"... He is a horrible man!"

Sorry 'spider'!


:)

voileazur,

I never said he was a horrible man. I said that he was an intelligent man who was wrong most of the time. And the thread I recently started shows, 92% of scientists (and probably a higher percentage of non-scientists) were completely wrong about fat. So I don't mind being in the minority and actually acknowledging the truth about Carter. I noticed that you didn't deny anything I said, you just turned sarcastic and made up a lie about what I posted.

'spider',

Sophistry is acceptable for poetry, but in formal discourse, it is strictly used to deceive and and manipulate people.

I've seen no poetry coming from you 'spider', but countless sophistic, deceptive and manipulative statements.

You wrote:
"... So I don't mind being in the minority and actually acknowledging the truth about Carter..."

What is that suppose to mean. You are Jesus's cousin? You have to endure us mere mortals? You have the severe delusion of HAVING THE TRUTH?

That, more than anyting else, makes most of your arguments laced with misguided sophisms, dishonest.

Between Jimmy Carter's extensive list of humanitarian contributions to the world, and your lame sophistic 'gossipy' propagandish rhetoric, how do you expect anyone take your position seriously?

THE TRUTH, you say!!! Please 'spider' think seriously about flushing that delusion about yourself, it is discrediting your otherwise good intentions.

voileazur,

It's amazing that you can only see the black and white. I think Carter's work with HFH is wonderful! I think that his economic policies were deplorable! See, I can think a person has done good and bad things. It seems that you believe that because Carter has done humanitarian work, that we should ignore all of his failures...I cannot agree with that position.

And you say "You have to endure us mere mortals? You have the severe delusion of HAVING THE TRUTH?"...

Carter is ranked the 28th best president...in other words in the bottom 33% of presidents. Historians agree that Carter didn't do a good job. If it weren't for the liberal bias of historians, Carter would have ranked lower. Economists would point out that Carter is the ONLY world leader to have caused "stagflation". There was almost unprecidented misery in America. Lines to buy gas. Jobs fleeing the country with no new ones to replace them. That doesn't mean Carter is the devil. It doesn't mean that I have some special access to truth. It means that Carter is HUMAN and he made mistakes. It means that I acknowledge his mistakes and I am not blinded by his humanitarian efforts in housing. Wouldn't you think that his effort to continue the Israeli-Palestinian conflict should mar his record just a bit?

And what is it with the sarcasm? Can't you have a discussion without having to resort to sarcasm and insults? You didn't even address what I posted, you attacked one single sentence. I have said it before and I'll say it again, I think you only post to get your licks in. You take shots, no matter how cheap, just so you can make the person you are responding to look bad. I think we could all enjoy a higher level of debate, don't you?

'spder',

You wrote:
"... I think we could all enjoy a higher level of debate, don't you?..."

I couldn't agree with you more.

Again, I strongly suggest you do some mirror work! You are the culprit of everything you accuse others of perpetrating.

The topic for debate proposed by our host:

"... WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The United States tortures prisoners in violation of international law, former President Carter said Wednesday..."

The debate proposed by Fanta deals with the long list of events, including Jimmy Carter's latest comments, pointing to the violation of international law by the US, regarding human rights.

That's IMO is the debate.

"... higher level of debate..." as you suggest, is somewhat hypocrytical coming from one whom highjacks the heart of the debate with a two bit gossipy, partisan, and unfounded character attack of the 'messenger', namely Jimmy Carter.

Why don't you address the topic: US violation of international law, instead of performing your calumnous character attacks a most credible international CONTRIBUTOR and spokesperson on matters of human rights.

You should really STOP "... getting your licks in...", follow your own counsel, and post to the topic. Your unfounded and sophisitic character attacks, LOWER the level of debate.

You are off topic, and I'm pointing it out to you. You don't like being caught off topic, don't take it out on me 'spider'.

Should you not agree with the violation of international law by the US 'spider', stick to the topic, and give us intelligent conter arguments, in lieu of unfounded, misguided two-bit gossip, and irrelevant information.

THAT would ELEVATE THE QUALITY OF THE DEBATE, don't you agree 'spider'?

it doesnt not matter that it was carter who is against torturing, what matters is that the current government is sanctioning torture in places like guantanamo and that is EVIL
It needs to stop and arguing about the politics of the former president who states that it needs to stop is beaurocratic sematics

lizardking19,

My point exactly, ... in so fewer words!

I take good note of the lesson 'lizardking19'!


:)

just noticed a typo i put "doesnt not" which is a double negative so even though voil understood what i was saying technically i was endorsing torture by say its not not wrong
I didnt mean to lol

voileazur,

Carter didn't release information, he offered his opinion. Therefore, Carters previous actions and character speak directly to the heart of the debate. The heart of the debate is Carter's opinion, not facts. If there were some facts, then it would be appropriate to say that I was attacking the messenger. But since Carter isn't a messenger, but is the actual source of the message, his credibility and character are the heart of the issue. If what he says isn't true, then there is no reason for a dicussion on if the US tortures prisoners or not.

i was under the impression that there has been mounting evidence about torture in guantanamo, that guard lindsay?