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Topic: Are you a sheep or do you think like I do?
Dodo_David's photo
Tue 05/04/21 10:08 PM
My blog post for 05 May 2021: Are you a sheep or do you think like I do?

Are you a sheep or do you think like I do?

Do you know of someone who believes that a shadowy group of “others” is controlling society and leading the masses astray? Do you know of someone who insists that certain horrid events must be the work of conspirators even though the evidence says otherwise?

From psychologist Dr. Richard Moulding et al.:

“Conspiracy Theory (CT) endorsers believe in an omnipresent, malevolent, and highly coordinated group that wields secret influence for personal gain, and credit this group with the responsibility for many noteworthy events.”

From psychiatrist Richard A. Friedman, M.D.:

“Our tendency to discern patterns and make sense of the world also makes us prone to cognitive errors, such as seeing connections between events when none exist. In fact, people who tend to see meaningful design in random events or stimuli are much more likely to endorse conspiracy theories than are those with less of this tendency—a bias, it turns out, we can be educated to resist. One study, for example, asked participants how likely they were to believe a common conspiracy theory ... they asked the participants to rate the extent to which they believed that a random computer-generated sequence of coin flips (i.e., heads or tails) was fully random or fully determined.

Participants who were more likely to detect order in this random sequence were also more prone to endorse belief in conspiracies. The clear implication of the study is that having a strong bias to find structure and purpose in the world makes us susceptible to conspiracies because they give us a clear, if erroneous, explanation of how events fit together. The flip side is that most of us also have a strong aversion to seeing events as random and coincidental; we greatly prefer to think that occurrences (e.g., the pandemic) happen to us for a reason.”

From social psychologist Dr. Sander van der Linden:

“You see this kind of boom in conspiracies whenever there’s political or social unrest throughout history, whenever there is significant uncertainty in the world... A lot of these conspiracies detract from some scary themes in the world. Climate change, coronavirus. It’s just another way to deny reality and having to think about your own fragility in the world. It’s an escape for people who are not so tolerant of uncertainty.”

Social psychologist Dr. Karen Douglas gives psychological motives for belief in conspiracy theories:

“The first of these motives are epistemic motives. I guess in a nutshell, epistemic motives really just refer to the need for knowledge and certainty and I guess the motive or desire to have information...

The second set of motives, we would call existential motives. And really they just refer to people’s needs to be or to feel safe and secure in the world that they live in. And also to feel that they have some kind of power or autonomy over the things that happen to them as well. So again, when something happens, people don’t like to feel powerless. They don’t like to feel out of control. And so reaching to conspiracy theories might, I guess, at least allow people to feel that they have information that at least explains why they don’t have any control over this situation. Research has shown that people who do feel powerless and disillusioned do tend to gravitate more towards conspiracy theories.

The final set of motives we would call social motives and those refer to people’s desire to feel good about themselves as individuals and also feel good about themselves in terms of the groups that they belong to. And I guess at the individual level, people like to feel… Well, they like to have high self-esteem. They like to feel good about themselves. And potentially one way of doing that is to feel that you have access to information that other people don’t necessarily have.

And this is quite a common rhetorical tool that people use when they talk about conspiracy theories, that everybody else is some kind of sheep, but that they know the truth. They have the truth. And having that kind of belief, I guess, feeling that you’re in possession of information that other people don’t have, can give you a feeling of superiority over others. And we have found, and others have shown as well that a need for uniqueness and a need to have, I guess, stand out from others is associated with belief in conspiracy theories.”



From psychologist Dr. John Grohol:

“You can’t really argue with people who believe in conspiracy theories, because their beliefs aren’t rational. Instead, they are often fear- or paranoia-based beliefs that, when confronted with contrarian factual evidence, will dismiss both the evidence and the messenger who brings it. That’s because conspiracy theories are driven by the people who believe and spread them and their own psychological makeup — not on the factual support or logical reasoning of the theory itself... Save your breath arguing with people who believe in them, as no amount of facts will dissuade them from their false belief.”

Calle's photo
Wed 05/05/21 07:24 AM
What evidence are there on no conspiracies?

If people would not have questioned authority people would still think the earth is flat and paid money to the church for not burning in hell. Personally I think it is natural that people questioning more at this time with all the censorship on twitter and other social platforms that's stops open and honest debate. Thankfully it is allowed here, free speech is a corner stone of Democracy.

Some quotes about censorship:
George R.R. Martin "“When you tear out a man's tongue, you are not proving him a liar, you're only telling the world that you fear what he might say.”

Maximilien Robespierre "The secret of freedom lies in educating people, whereas the secret of tyranny is in keeping them ignorant."

Was JFK a powerless powerless and disillusioned and tended to gravitate more towards conspiracy theories? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FnkdfFAqsHA
How do you comment his speech above?

Here leaked recording from a globalists own words : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bdQwPyF2aE

It has been confirmed that Cia have had there dirty hands in middle east for example, this satire is better than most news.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHbStsy11j0

I don´t say I know the truth, but of course there are people with agendas that do not align with the peoples best interests. As a swede I know more about events here and power families her at least.

Sweden have had there part of mysteries/political deaths/murders Ivar Kreuger, Dag Hammarsköld, Olof Palme and Anna Lind. Here is some research from Sweden on the last hundred years history, not easy to follow I most admit. https://defria.se/en/the-swedish-tigers-repressed-memories .

However main thing is Wallenberg's influence it is not a known big known globalist family internationally, but famous/infamous here.
Today people are afraid of Chinese/Huawei taking power over internet traffic and that they will spy. Ericsson have controlled the phones for hundreds of years before they are the controlling family basically alone after Krueger's mysteries death. They where involved in ownership in IG Farben, Bosch during second world war etc. but avoided Nurnberg trials. They had their friends Dulles as attorney in a later process for Bosch in USA. Dulles where not a big friend of JFK...

Sources:https://arkiv.wallenberg.org/sites/arkiv/files/stockholms_enskilda_bank_and_the_bosch_group__0.pdf . https://archive.org/details/artofcloakingown0000aald/page/n3/mode/2up

Personally I agree with Martin Luther Kings “Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity”. So I try to do my own research and encourage other to do so also, but it is up each person what they consider likely to be true.










Tom4Uhere's photo
Wed 05/05/21 08:10 AM
Do you know of someone who believes that a shadowy group of “others” is controlling society and leading the masses astray? Do you know of someone who insists that certain horrid events must be the work of conspirators even though the evidence says otherwise?

Many
(The only thing you actually wrote)

From psychologist Dr. Richard Moulding et al.:

“Conspiracy Theory (CT) endorsers believe in an omnipresent, malevolent, and highly coordinated group that wields secret influence for personal gain, and credit this group with the responsibility for many noteworthy events.”

You didn't write this.

From psychiatrist Richard A. Friedman, M.D.:

“Our tendency to discern patterns and make sense of the world also makes us prone to cognitive errors, such as seeing connections between events when none exist. In fact, people who tend to see meaningful design in random events or stimuli are much more likely to endorse conspiracy theories than are those with less of this tendency—a bias, it turns out, we can be educated to resist. One study, for example, asked participants how likely they were to believe a common conspiracy theory ... they asked the participants to rate the extent to which they believed that a random computer-generated sequence of coin flips (i.e., heads or tails) was fully random or fully determined.

Participants who were more likely to detect order in this random sequence were also more prone to endorse belief in conspiracies. The clear implication of the study is that having a strong bias to find structure and purpose in the world makes us susceptible to conspiracies because they give us a clear, if erroneous, explanation of how events fit together. The flip side is that most of us also have a strong aversion to seeing events as random and coincidental; we greatly prefer to think that occurrences (e.g., the pandemic) happen to us for a reason.”

You didn't write this.

From social psychologist Dr. Sander van der Linden:

“You see this kind of boom in conspiracies whenever there’s political or social unrest throughout history, whenever there is significant uncertainty in the world... A lot of these conspiracies detract from some scary themes in the world. Climate change, coronavirus. It’s just another way to deny reality and having to think about your own fragility in the world. It’s an escape for people who are not so tolerant of uncertainty.”

You didn't write this.

Social psychologist Dr. Karen Douglas gives psychological motives for belief in conspiracy theories:

“The first of these motives are epistemic motives. I guess in a nutshell, epistemic motives really just refer to the need for knowledge and certainty and I guess the motive or desire to have information...

The second set of motives, we would call existential motives. And really they just refer to people’s needs to be or to feel safe and secure in the world that they live in. And also to feel that they have some kind of power or autonomy over the things that happen to them as well. So again, when something happens, people don’t like to feel powerless. They don’t like to feel out of control. And so reaching to conspiracy theories might, I guess, at least allow people to feel that they have information that at least explains why they don’t have any control over this situation. Research has shown that people who do feel powerless and disillusioned do tend to gravitate more towards conspiracy theories.

The final set of motives we would call social motives and those refer to people’s desire to feel good about themselves as individuals and also feel good about themselves in terms of the groups that they belong to. And I guess at the individual level, people like to feel… Well, they like to have high self-esteem. They like to feel good about themselves. And potentially one way of doing that is to feel that you have access to information that other people don’t necessarily have.

And this is quite a common rhetorical tool that people use when they talk about conspiracy theories, that everybody else is some kind of sheep, but that they know the truth. They have the truth. And having that kind of belief, I guess, feeling that you’re in possession of information that other people don’t have, can give you a feeling of superiority over others. And we have found, and others have shown as well that a need for uniqueness and a need to have, I guess, stand out from others is associated with belief in conspiracy theories.”

You didn't write this.

From psychologist Dr. John Grohol:

“You can’t really argue with people who believe in conspiracy theories, because their beliefs aren’t rational. Instead, they are often fear- or paranoia-based beliefs that, when confronted with contrarian factual evidence, will dismiss both the evidence and the messenger who brings it. That’s because conspiracy theories are driven by the people who believe and spread them and their own psychological makeup — not on the factual support or logical reasoning of the theory itself... Save your breath arguing with people who believe in them, as no amount of facts will dissuade them from their false belief.”

You didn't write this.

There are real conspiracies in the world.

A conspiracy is a secret plan by a group to do something unlawful or harmful.

Planning a street race with your buddies after work is a conspiracy.

I've met people who believe there are conspiracies all around them.
Most have no idea what a conspiracy actually is but assume they are everywhere.

A group of people planning is not necessarily a conspiracy.
A negative result from a planned endeavor is not necessarily a conspiracy.
Not all negative actions are a result of a conspiracy.
Bad things happen to good people.
Good things happen to bad people.
We live in a Universe of unpredictable chaotic events.
Random things just happen.
Not everything must be explained or justified.
Trying to do so can make someone insane.

Tom4Uhere's photo
Wed 05/05/21 08:23 AM
If people would not have questioned authority people would still think the earth is flat and paid money to the church for not burning in hell.

Questioning authority has nothing to do with conspiracies, it has to do with trust.

Granted, trust can be broken by conspiracies which have come to light but the lack of trust is not the conspiracy.

Censorship is not always a conspiracy.
There are things which the average person doesn't need to know, shouldn't know and doesn't involve them personally.

Governments have secrets. Not all secrets are conspiracies.
Some secrets are secret to keep the average citizen safe.
Some secrets are kept to prevent civil panic or unrest because not all the facts can be revealed.

An agenda does not necessarily mean conspiracy.

A conspiracy is a secret plan by a group to do something unlawful or harmful.

When considering governments, 'harmful' is intended to mean the citizens of said government. Just because you consider it harmful to you doesn't mean it is harmful to the average citizen.

Real government conspiracies do happen but not as often as many believe.

no photo
Wed 05/05/21 10:32 AM
Perhaps it's merely because believing a reasonably presented theory is an approximation of knowing something and much easier than all that bothersome thinking, cross checking, verifying, that usually accompanies a scrap of knowledge on the workings of the world.

Away with all that boring drudgery, just have blind faith in some bloke on youtube.
then you can nod wisely when something aligns with that faith, and reject reasoning off hand.

******** baffles brains. as they say.

Mirage_Rahgnarian's photo
Wed 05/05/21 12:08 PM
A conspiracy theory, you say?... Well, let's dive right into it now, shall we?... I myself have witnessed this very subject in action before, and it carries on to this moment... Have any of you ever went to the Grocery Store to pick up a few items, just to discover they're completely sold out of it, and have no idea when the next shipment will arrive?... Have any of you ever tried in vain to get a parking space downtown only to find there's none to be found for the next few blocks from your destination?... Hmmmm... I think I might have something here... Let's continue... Have any of you ever physically seen the Mailman deliver every single piece of Postal Mail at right about the very same time each and every single day?...

Well, my friends... Those are just a few of the strange, odd conspiracy theories that abound in everyday life has we know it to be... Things happen for a very good reason usually. Some, more often than others happen still... Things happen for whatever reason they do...

Some, like that very, very odd strange conspiracy theory about those Postal Mail deliveries each and every day... Except Sunday, of course... That's a no-brainer... Never on a Sunday... (That's a conspiracy in and of itself if you ask me)...

Conspiracy theory?... Probably... Then, probably not, as well... That's the entire mystery of conspiracy theories...

You just never know when they're going to suddenly pop up out of nowhere and rein supreme upon the huddled masses...

Blondey111's photo
Wed 05/05/21 11:57 PM

“Previous research has highlighted three potential motives for why people buy into conspiracy theories.

First, people may latch onto conspiracy theories as a way of understanding and explaining a chaotic world, drawing links between unconnected events to create a sense of certainty

For example, studies show people who prefer an intuitive style of thinking – “going with their gut” – are more likely to believe in conspiracy theories, while those who engage in more deliberative, analytic thinking are less convinced.

Second, for some people, believing in conspiracy theories gives them a greater sense of safety and control over the unknown. Central to this is a distrust of the “other” – as in, different types of people or groups


And Some researchers have pointed to this being evolutionary – a psychological mechanism that aims to minimise the risk of threats from enemies and maintain a safe environment for one’s “tribe”.

Lastly, conspiracy theories may serve as a way for people to maintain a positive sense of self and their identity as a member of a social group. This meets a fundamental human need for belonging. For example, those who felt socially excluded have been found to be more likely to engage in conspiracies.”

http://www.stuff.co.nz/science/300287702/why-do-so-many-of-us-believe-conspiracy-theories

Those who believe in conspiracy theory generally appear to have a deep distrust of expertise (medical /scientific) or authority combined with “emotional thinking“ rather than “analytical thinking”. They often lack the knowledge and critical thinking skills to help them ascertain credibility and legitimacy of information . Instead they are swayed by irrational beliefs, cognitive biases and social influence .

Providing factual information is seldom enough to challenge the denial associated with belief in conspiracy theories . Such a mindset constructs beliefs to support what they “want to be true“.. gravitatIng only to information that supports such beliefs ....(even if irrational ) and will be closed to anything contrary .








Calle's photo
Thu 05/06/21 01:42 AM
Hey David and Blondey
I am asking you yet again how is JFK fitting in you definition of conspiracy theorist?

Once again the JFK link here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FnkdfFAqsHA
Especially Blondey seems to ignore this every time in discussions. JFK is outright talking about a conspiracy in that speech an about informing and warning the American people.

Also in this leaked speech also former linked a powerful person basically thanking media for not warning like Kennedy asked them to do https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bdQwPyF2aE

Should JFKs speech just be ignored for not fitting into official history?

It is very easy to always be a official narrative believing people if you just ignore all info/facts that's goes against your world view like in this case for example JFKs speech.

I think people interested in History tend to question more if you seen how cruel and manipulative people been before.

Yes, Blondey it is true that I question medical authority from own experiences. I have been cured from a sickness normal doctors said where Chronic throw Holistic Therapists and I have a lot of witnesses on that. If people find out they have been lied to once, they tend to question more it is just rational and natural. Fool me once shame on you fool my twice shame on me as the saying goes.

To Tom: Yes I accept that military defense plans etc. should be secret/censored but not what Twitter etc. are censoring now in general.

SparklingCrystal 💖💎's photo
Thu 05/06/21 03:35 AM

.....

Those who believe in conspiracy theory generally appear to have a deep distrust of expertise (medical /scientific) or authority combined with “emotional thinking“ rather than “analytical thinking”. They often lack the knowledge and critical thinking skills to help them ascertain credibility and legitimacy of information . Instead they are swayed by irrational beliefs, cognitive biases and social influence .

Providing factual information is seldom enough to challenge the denial associated with belief in conspiracy theories . Such a mindset constructs beliefs to support what they “want to be true“.. gravitatIng only to information that supports such beliefs ....(even if irrational ) and will be closed to anything contrary .

I don't know how people that you refer to think. I do know that many people put too much trust in science, including medical science, and think it is the absolute source of knowledge which is not true.
Science is generally years behind because it takes time for them to measure and prove things that have been known for thousands of years. Now it can be a good thing to prove these to be true, although I don't see the point to find prove for something that simply works.

As for medical science, it has its place for sure, but it is not all-knowing and often cannot help people either.
I am proof of that, as is my daughter who got very ill out of the blue. She's fine now, with help of an alternative therapist as medical science couldn't help her.

It is not good to be stuck in the head and not use the other senses we were given as a species. We aren't robots, nor meant to be. That analytic stuff that you praise is part of the patriarchal system that's on its way out.

It's one thing to make science your god, but then you do lose sight of the fact that thinking that way only makes one get tunnel-vision so you cannot see the big picture anymore.
Not healthy to always only look at one side of the coin and convince yourself it has no other side.

I guess this is the century-old clash between church and science that even back then ripped societies apart.
All the things you say about people that aren't analytical-only I feel apply to people that are analytical-only.

I do btw agree that people who are extremely into conspiracy stuff do the same thing. Both the analytical and conspiracy people can get extreme and then lose sight of the big picture and refuse to see any other way than theirs ---> tunnel vision.
Then you get the "are you a sheep or..." and not seeing they are the sheep.

Bastet127's photo
Thu 05/06/21 04:44 AM

If people would not have questioned authority people would still think the earth is flat and paid money to the church for not burning in hell.

Questioning authority has nothing to do with conspiracies, it has to do with trust.

Granted, trust can be broken by conspiracies which have come to light but the lack of trust is not the conspiracy.

Censorship is not always a conspiracy.
There are things which the average person doesn't need to know, shouldn't know and doesn't involve them personally.

Governments have secrets. Not all secrets are conspiracies.
Some secrets are secret to keep the average citizen safe.
Some secrets are kept to prevent civil panic or unrest because not all the facts can be revealed.

An agenda does not necessarily mean conspiracy.

A conspiracy is a secret plan by a group to do something unlawful or harmful.

When considering governments, 'harmful' is intended to mean the citizens of said government. Just because you consider it harmful to you doesn't mean it is harmful to the average citizen.

Real government conspiracies do happen but not as often as many believe.


Bingo! Thank you for this, it puts perspective on what I’ve been trying to define, personally.

Tom4Uhere's photo
Thu 05/06/21 07:47 AM
To Tom: Yes I accept that military defense plans etc. should be secret/censored but not what Twitter etc. are censoring now in general.

Twitter is a public company.
Mingle 2 is a public company.
Facebook is a public company.
Public, as in not government run.

Companies and corporations censor to protect themselves from issues arising in the public mindset. They censor to keep their agenda. They censor to keep their shareholders, attract new funding agents, make money.

Certain censorship is mandated by national security. Terrorism is real. Threat is real. Sedition exists in the public and private sectors. There are individuals and groups which exist to destroy national integrity.

I'm not sure if you've ever experienced a riot but if censorship disappears, riots will consume the nation. People tend to get worked up about things they hear or read. The 'person' can be sane but 'people' tend to react to other people. Censorship helps reduce the 'mob mentality' of the people.

NEWS is censored. A reporter can write a story and the editor will not allow it to be released because it is sensitive to the well-being of the readership, the establishment or national security.
Sometimes they will sit on a story and not release it till a later time.
Some NEWS is too sensitive for public knowledge.

Censorship itself is not necessarily a bad thing. Its often enforced to prevent civil unrest. The public is not 100% rational. Much of the public are protected 'snowflakes' unable to reason and are most likely to express 'knee-jerk reactions' to NEWS they can't understand.

You can sense this right here in M2 forums. How many times do the mods have to remove comments from threads because they are destructive to the intent of M2's public confidence? How many threads have been 'locked' due to possible hostile reaction by the other members? M2 tries to keep its forums open to all members, equally. That can't be done without censorship.

I've found living in the here and now, right now, is less stressful than trying to live nationally or globally. Its working.
I don't care about all the dirty details about things which do not affect me personally. I deal with things as the arise, when they affect me. I don't concern myself with things I can't do anything about. I've no need to make the world bend to my will.

Tom4Uhere's photo
Thu 05/06/21 08:18 AM


.....

Those who believe in conspiracy theory generally appear to have a deep distrust of expertise (medical /scientific) or authority combined with “emotional thinking“ rather than “analytical thinking”. They often lack the knowledge and critical thinking skills to help them ascertain credibility and legitimacy of information . Instead they are swayed by irrational beliefs, cognitive biases and social influence .

Providing factual information is seldom enough to challenge the denial associated with belief in conspiracy theories . Such a mindset constructs beliefs to support what they “want to be true“.. gravitatIng only to information that supports such beliefs ....(even if irrational ) and will be closed to anything contrary .

I don't know how people that you refer to think. I do know that many people put too much trust in science, including medical science, and think it is the absolute source of knowledge which is not true.
Science is generally years behind because it takes time for them to measure and prove things that have been known for thousands of years. Now it can be a good thing to prove these to be true, although I don't see the point to find prove for something that simply works.

As for medical science, it has its place for sure, but it is not all-knowing and often cannot help people either.
I am proof of that, as is my daughter who got very ill out of the blue. She's fine now, with help of an alternative therapist as medical science couldn't help her.

It is not good to be stuck in the head and not use the other senses we were given as a species. We aren't robots, nor meant to be. That analytic stuff that you praise is part of the patriarchal system that's on its way out.

It's one thing to make science your god, but then you do lose sight of the fact that thinking that way only makes one get tunnel-vision so you cannot see the big picture anymore.
Not healthy to always only look at one side of the coin and convince yourself it has no other side.

I guess this is the century-old clash between church and science that even back then ripped societies apart.
All the things you say about people that aren't analytical-only I feel apply to people that are analytical-only.

I do btw agree that people who are extremely into conspiracy stuff do the same thing. Both the analytical and conspiracy people can get extreme and then lose sight of the big picture and refuse to see any other way than theirs ---> tunnel vision.
Then you get the "are you a sheep or..." and not seeing they are the sheep.

I always find it amusing when someone talks about science and has no idea what science actually is.

I don't see the point to find prove for something that simply works

Understanding something that works, figuring out all the details of how, why and when it works, allows us to use those concepts and conditions to find new things things which will also work. It also allows us to find the slight flaws, correct them and cause those things to work better. A fundamental concept for invention and innovation.

Science is not the know-all of everything.
Science is the quest to know-all about everything.
Once everything about everything is known, science will no longer be a thing.
We (human species) are a very, very long way from that understanding.

Science is an ongoing quest for knowledge and understanding.
It is constantly being revised when new information is learned.

Religion is a finite level of knowledge and understanding.
It is written and intended to be the final truth.

Both have a place in the human experience.
The human mind operates using both evidence and imagination.
For a person, evidence and imagination are reality.

Imagination often initiates a quest for science.
It allows science to hone the facts of reality to actuality.
Both are important to how humans develop and exist.

Medical science fails sometimes because there are billions of individuals existing which all have different states of being.
The only way medical science could be 100% accurate is if a personal medical doctor were available for every single person alive which has access to all that person's environmental and bodily variables over their entire lifetime.
In science fiction: The personal medical hologram.

RockHammer's photo
Thu 05/06/21 03:51 PM
I've always been amused by most conspiracy theories.

Stu's photo
Thu 05/06/21 05:34 PM
I think for myself.

Blondey111's photo
Thu 05/06/21 07:32 PM

Hey David and Blondey
I am asking you yet again how is JFK fitting in you definition of conspiracy theorist?

Once again the JFK link here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FnkdfFAqsHA
Especially Blondey seems to ignore this every time in discussions. JFK is outright talking about a conspiracy in that speech an about informing and warning the American people.

Also in this leaked speech also former linked a powerful person basically thanking media for not warning like Kennedy asked them to do https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bdQwPyF2aE

Should JFKs speech just be ignored for not fitting into official history?

It is very easy to always be a official narrative believing people if you just ignore all info/facts that's goes against your world view like in this case for example JFKs speech.

I think people interested in History tend to question more if you seen how cruel and manipulative people been before.

Yes, Blondey it is true that I question medical authority from own experiences. I have been cured from a sickness normal doctors said where Chronic throw Holistic Therapists and I have a lot of witnesses on that. If people find out they have been lied to once, they tend to question more it is just rational and natural. Fool me once shame on you fool my twice shame on me as the saying goes.

To Tom: Yes I accept that military defense plans etc. should be secret/censored but not what Twitter etc. are censoring now in general.
yes I remember you posting the video about JFK on the covid thread . I did not understand the relevance . His speech in 1961 was a political speech. It has nothing to do with covid . Covid is a virus . I am. Not American and have little interest in American politics . I am happy with the way the NZ government has responded to the covid crisis .

Blondey111's photo
Thu 05/06/21 07:52 PM


.....

Those who believe in conspiracy theory generally appear to have a deep distrust of expertise (medical /scientific) or authority combined with “emotional thinking“ rather than “analytical thinking”. They often lack the knowledge and critical thinking skills to help them ascertain credibility and legitimacy of information . Instead they are swayed by irrational beliefs, cognitive biases and social influence .

Providing factual information is seldom enough to challenge the denial associated with belief in conspiracy theories . Such a mindset constructs beliefs to support what they “want to be true“.. gravitatIng only to information that supports such beliefs ....(even if irrational ) and will be closed to anything contrary .

I don't know how people that you refer to think. I do know that many people put too much trust in science, including medical science, and think it is the absolute source of knowledge which is not true.
Science is generally years behind because it takes time for them to measure and prove things that have been known for thousands of years. Now it can be a good thing to prove these to be true, although I don't see the point to find prove for something that simply works.

As for medical science, it has its place for sure, but it is not all-knowing and often cannot help people either.
I am proof of that, as is my daughter who got very ill out of the blue. She's fine now, with help of an alternative therapist as medical science couldn't help her.

It is not good to be stuck in the head and not use the other senses we were given as a species. We aren't robots, nor meant to be. That analytic stuff that you praise is part of the patriarchal system that's on its way out.

It's one thing to make science your god, but then you do lose sight of the fact that thinking that way only makes one get tunnel-vision so you cannot see the big picture anymore.
Not healthy to always only look at one side of the coin and convince yourself it has no other side.

I guess this is the century-old clash between church and science that even back then ripped societies apart.
All the things you say about people that aren't analytical-only I feel apply to people that are analytical-only.

I do btw agree that people who are extremely into conspiracy stuff do the same thing. Both the analytical and conspiracy people can get extreme and then lose sight of the big picture and refuse to see any other way than theirs ---> tunnel vision.
Then you get the "are you a sheep or..." and not seeing they are the sheep.

I remember you posting about your daughter attending hospital . You thought she had an allergic reaction to weed .. despite the cardiologist advising that was unlikely . You were annoyed allergy testing was not undertaken . You also said another doctor gave your daughter incorrect info about a holster test . But thankfully you knew better .

medicine may not be the absolute knowledge ... but a cardiologist is an expert when it comes to health related heart concerns . I would listen to and value his advice.

Negative beliefs and distrust do impact on thought processes and behaviour .. sometimes that impact is harmful and dysfunctional .


jaish's photo
Fri 05/07/21 08:56 AM
Edited by jaish on Fri 05/07/21 08:57 AM
from Sky News Australia


Documents obtained by the US State Department reveal Chinese military scientists discussed the weaponisation of SARS coronaviruses five years before the COVID-19 pandemic.

Top scientists outlined their ideas in the document predicting a third world war would be fought with biological weapons.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJVC3EKNbFE

Question is, why should we know this from an Australian channel.
Does it not confirm this as 'deep state' conspiracy cover up when Dr. Fauci funded the Wuhan virus Lab research (80 billion as I remember) because of Congressional ban on virus research for military purposes.


Dodo_David's photo
Sat 05/08/21 07:05 PM
I enjoy watching people demonstrate that psychologist Dr. John Grohol is correct.


jaish's photo
Sun 05/09/21 04:30 AM
Edited by jaish on Sun 05/09/21 04:50 AM

I enjoy watching people demonstrate that psychologist Dr. John Grohol is correct.




Against the example you cited:
One study, for example, asked participants how likely they were to believe a common conspiracy theory ... they asked the participants to rate the extent to which they believed that a random computer-generated sequence of coin flips (i.e., heads or tails) was fully random or fully determined.
you may be right.

As Tom said:

A group of people planning is not necessarily a conspiracy.
A negative result from a planned endeavor is not necessarily a conspiracy.
Not all negative actions are a result of a conspiracy.
Bad things happen to good people.
Good things happen to bad people.
We live in a Universe of unpredictable chaotic events.
Random things just happen.
Not everything must be explained or justified.
Trying to do so can make someone insane.


I have a feeling we mixed up Dr Grohol's limited view of 'conspiracy' on everyday events - which is a study of mindsets - got mixed up with:

If this thread was titled as Conspiracies in Power Politics and Economics

Then Calle's List of political conspiracies are open secrets.
(he left out economical - like sub-prime that led to European banks falling as pins; Greenspan's open handed policy that allowed this crime; and to say Greenspan was innocent of banking and stock market regulatory knowledge)!

People may latch onto conspiracy theories as a way of understanding and explaining a chaotic world ...
provided there's a pattern!

Example: If an ambulance driver runs over a dog. okay.
But if the same driver runs over several dogs - we have a pattern.
Now as Tom suggested conspiracies have to be viewed in their contexts; perhaps the driver wanted to eliminate all dogs justifying that they are a menace to his profession - would it be a conspiracy?

Now replace dogs and drivers with media, parties and nations - then a conspiracy is manifest in the pattern.

My contribution is that (while powerful governments invest in science which have 'additionally' potential military applications); in the case of biological warfare while there's a UN ban; US supporting experiments in Wuhan Lab - while there's remains a ban on such experiments within US - needs to be investigated.

-- I saw your website after posting the above. Great site! :thumbsup:
Makes some of what I've written - simplistic.

maybe some day I will start a website.

Best of Luck!

jaish's photo
Sun 05/09/21 06:04 AM
Edited by jaish on Sun 05/09/21 06:06 AM
W.r.t. Greenspan being mentioned in previous post - somebody may point out that it was Ben Bernanke who was Chairman of Federal Reserve in 2008. For their reference I quote:



In 2011 the bipartisan Financial Crisis Inquiry Commission found that Greenspan’s failure to curtail trade in securities backed by subprime mortgage loans (see also mortgage-backed security) during the U.S. housing bubble of the early 2000s and his advocacy of deregulation of the financial industry had contributed to the global financial crisis of 2008



What puzzles me is Bernanke was closely assisted by Timothy Geithner, then the New York Federal Reserve Bank President


Interesting to note that Before he became the President of the New York Federal Reserve Bank Mr. Geithner served as a Treasury Department Attache in the U.S. Embassy in Tokyo, Japan. That was during the time that Japan's commercial real estate bubble deflated, causing Japan's asset value crash, at the beginning of what they call "Japan's Lost Decade".


Incidentally, Mr. Geithner 'fired' Nobel Economics Awardee) Robert Shiller for giving a presentation on financial bubbles well before the 2008 bust.

So if now I say - the Sub Prime conspiracy was 'in the making' by the Federal Bank - like parents are responsible for delinquency in their teens; what!


The Sub Prime is the mother of all conspiracies.







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