I got the Vax, before the side effects were known about.
because we were promised that we could go back to our normal lives once we did.

what is not being widely reported is:
there are plenty of vaccinated people on ventilators, and also in the morg. who are there because of the side effects of getting the shots.

and many people still are getting the virus after getting them as well.

none of the current vaccines are a harmless cure all.

it is not like going in and getting a flu shot. and you'll be safe.
and people are given the choice of getting the shot, or risk getting and spreading the flu. which kills people just as dead as covid does.

I'm not telling any one to get the vaccines, or not to.
I'm just saying people have the right to know the truth about all the risks, either way.
then be allowed make their own decisions, based on what they feel is right for them.
all this talk of stopping covid, is nonsense. that genie is out of the bottle.
it is not going to go away, and it will continue to mutate. and people will still get sick from it. and yes some will die.
vaccines will continue to be made and hopefully get better in time at preventing people from getting sick, with out making them sick. so more people will trust them.
and life will go on.


also regarding masks, I am seeing more and more medical PSA's, warning about people getting bacterial lung infections caused by re-breathing our own air.
people are not wearing masks correctly, using them too long, or using the wrong kind and usually both.
wearing masks for extended periods on a daily bases is extremely un healthy.

wear them only when you can not socially distance, like a confined space with a group of people, and change them often (at least every hour). and all ways use a fresh mask when you do.
and also, once you join the services, you give your oath of loyalty, surrendering
most of your right of choice. you have to do as you are ordered. unless it is an immoral act. that would allow you to be justified to refuse such orders.
an even then you might have to face a court martial.

To violate another's right to autonomy in their medical decisions, or mandates or coercion to force a vaccine violates the Nuremberg Code. We were literally hanging people for it in 1947. And any employer requiring a vaccination or politician supporting them being mandated needs to have an "accident". These people have names, addresses and families

why not, the liberals were advocating president Trump be assinated, they go to politicians homes to harass and protest. They shoot people trying to play ball.they treat cops like $hit. All liberals ( deep down) are soulless sub-humans void of any positive actions. Their objective is to deny individual freedoms , and thought. They will NOT succeed. They are now in the process of losing control of congress( both houses) in 2022 but they can’t foresee this because they are so ignorant of the immorality’s they possess and try to push on the rest of us. Thank God there are still enough God fearing Americans that have common sense and morals and can vote these simple minded immoral scumbags out of office.

Wow! Wild generalizations, and I reject them all. I know many Liberals and none of them are soulless sub-humans. The ones who disrespect cops were hurt by cops abusing their authority--filing false police reports and using excessive force, etc.. None wanted Trump assassinated--but tried and convicted.

Losing control of Congress is very likely with gerrymandering and Republicans deleting voting rights.

How can anybody talk about morality and support Donald Trump?

. Lol, it’s very easy to talk about morality, When talking about trump, he cares about America and it citizens. Anybody that has kept up with the news the past year or so ( if they are being truthful) knows the liberal far left is trying to destroy America as we know it. If you agree with Biden’s policy of open borders, putting immigrants ahead of citizens, weaponizing the IRS to spy on our bank accounts, authorizing his DOJ to go after parents that disagree with the school boards plan to brainwash our children with CRT. If you agree with the way he has put hundreds of thousands of people out of work with no pay than maybe you should reevaluate your definition of morality. And yes several of those Hollywood jerk-offs wanted trump assassinated. People should get their facts straight before commenting. It’s not gerrymandering that will lose it for the democrats, it’s their destructive policies and their lack of integrity and their blatant hypocrisy.

There is a difference between ACTUAL liberals and radical leftists who align with Marxist/communist/totalitarian doctrines. The Democrat Party has welcomed Marxists and communists, who call themselves "democratic socialists", that believe a totalitarian government which controls ALL aspects of peoples lives is preferable to a democratic republic.

These radicals in the Democrat Party, wrongly referred to as the "DEMOCRATIC" Party, do NOT believe in democracy. These radicals have been allowed to hijacked the liberal moniker by the media and ACTUAL liberals in the Democrat Party.

The root word of liberal is the Latin word "liber" meaning free. I'm a 1970's liberal, back when it meant you wanted INDIVIDUAL freedom and LESS government interference in your life. Today the same values that made me a liberal in the 1970's makes me a conservative today in the eyes of radical leftists.

Liberalism in Europe is NOW a political movement that supports a broad tradition of individual liberties and constitutionally-limited and democratically accountable government. The European derivatives of classical liberalism are found in centrist movements and parties as well as some parties on the center-right and the center-left. European liberals favor limited government, free trade and adhere to economic liberalism system which is closer to a capitalist system rather than a socialist system. Liberalism in Europe has a different meaning (the real meaning) than what is promoted by the media, the Democrat Party and indoctrinators posing as "educators" in the US.

For 4 years most of the media was outraged and called Trump (who's personality I don't like) a dictator. Where is the outrage from the media now that Biden is calling for mandates which is how ACTUAL dictators control people????

Many eastern Europeans who LEGALLY immigrated to the US are concerned that they are seeing what happen with the governments of their countries of origin is happening in in US now.

Back in 2016, when I thought Trump had a snowballs chance, I decided to listen to the reasons why hillary should be president. Just so I'd know what I was in for.

For 15 minutes, I heard some jerk go on and on about nothing. It was pure double talk. I thought I was listening to an Amway speech. What did I learn? That she was a huge shyster. Sounded like an obammy speech. They say NOTHING.

What did I dread for the 8 years he was president? That he would have gotten assassinated, and we'd be saddled with biden. Well now we are, he's living up to everything I dreaded, and I was wishing we still had Jimmy Carter in the White House.

Tonite at midnight thousands of people, nurse and medical personal, stewardesses and pilots, luggage handlers. Fire and police personnel and many other service personnel that we take for granted but need on a daily basis will lose their jobs and livelihood because they didn’t want to comply with joe Biden’s whishes that everybody inject a vaccine into their body, that is still not known what long term effects it will have on humans . After many years of service and sacrifice this is how our government, and the unions , retail giants, wealthy health care co.s, and transportation industry’s treat their loyal employee’s. What a shame that we should all submit to something so personal , all because we have a empty shell of a man on a power trip…”. Let’s Go Brandon, “. “ Let’s Go Brandon”.

Edited of disparaging remarks.

Di
Site Moderator

The empty shell on a power trip is TFG
I certainly don't want my medical provider to be unvaccinated!
What a shame my rights are being taken away by the person next to me refusing vaccine and wearing a mask. Exposing me to your potential virus breath.
Tell me to stay home? I have and I do, but not forever.
And again, I'm center before you attack me for being a liberal.

ive never attacked anyone here, but I do express my opinion of someone that supports our government to impose their will on us as we submit to their political will.That is not a free and Democratic nation. Please answer me this. Have you had your vaccine? If not, get a vaccine. If you had one already then you are protected against the unvaccinated. Yes you can be vaccinated and still get the virus just not as sick. But if we use that logic then a vaccinated person can also transmit the virus to others. So are you saying we should all wear masks from now on?

I think we once had a nice fish convo actually, but just putting out there I'm not a far left liberal as I see some bashing going on by others.
I've had my shot and still wear my mask.
Yes, wear them please until the death rates plunge & infection rates decrease dramatically. Yes, it's an inconvenience, but it's worth it imo.
Ofc nothing is 100% effective, but use the tools we have. Thank you.

by all means , we can disagree and still be civil. What a boring *** place this would be if all agreed about everything. I’m just not willing to wear a mask for much longer especially since the virus is winding down. We need to accept the fact that it’s here to stay. Just like the flu. We learn to live with inconvenience but wearing a mask anytime in public is not living, IMO .I’m vaccinated and I feel safe around people weather masked or not… we did have a fish convo onetime.Looking forward to many more.

Ok, feeling safe or not, maybe just a bit longer please? You seem nice, let's make sure to keep you in the world as long as possible. I know too many that got covid, I may be swayed by that. I just feel better safe than sorry.
Another thing, I don't mind wearing a mask for another reason, less attention. I am pretty reserved irl feel more relaxed and invisible wearing one

Yes✌ 🥂 to that!

Hi Bart I believe there is currently a false sense of security ... covid remains unpredictable and is far from winding down .

“the pandemic ends when almost everyone has immunity, preferably because they were vaccinated or alternatively because they were infected and survived. “

Global update ...

4,893,547 global deaths (tragic)

35.9% of world fully vaccinated

World population approx 7.9 billion

Who estimates only 10% of global population have been infected with covid .

Do you see the problem ?????

Endemic means globally we are no longer immunologically vulnerable . It will only happen through global vaccination , infection or development of treatment to curb/eradicate the pathogen ) . Countries may be winding down their management of covid at this stage but covid will not wind down while such a huge global population remain unvaccinated or have no natural immunity . Our current situation allows the virus to mutate and potentially become more dangerous to everyone including the vaccinated.

https://www.google.co.nz/amp/s/amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/619726/

I have said this several times before .. I am watching the UK with interest and concern . What happens this winter will be very insightful not just from a Covid perspective . As international travel begins , so does the arrival of influenza , RSV and other respiratory pathogens that appear to be dormant . NZ and Australian hospitals were inundated with RSV during our winter .

http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2021/08/watch-uk-understand-delta/619647/

Let me also ask you this .. hypothetically .. let’s say you suffer a heart attack and require open heart surgery . Would you be happy if the surgeon , doctors and nurses caring for you were unvaccinated or there was covid exposure in the hospital ?

It is not just covid people need to consider ., it is their health in general , which can fluctuate from day to day . A Covid infection becomes more dangerous when health is compromised .

I'd want the best doctor whether he be:
man or woman
any race
any religion
gay or straight
left or right
vaxxed or not

These are the tools that are used to divide and it's working fairly well because of ignorance and intolerance

You don't hear unvaxxed people demanding people to not take the shot...they are just saying let me decide my own health and mitigate their own risks.

It IS mindboggling how the people with the vax demand the unvaxxed get a shot. If they have the shot, they have nothing to worry about....right? Transmission can still happen between both vaxxed and unvaxxed - but they the vaxxed are "more protected". If it's a healthcare requirement argument - then why isn't the smokers, drug users and fat people a part of that same conversation?

There is also the ignoring of the people that got the Rona and carry the antibodies that were proven to be more effective than 2 shots of Pfizer against the delta variant according to a study coming out of Israel.

The people that are demanding the other people get vaxxed have no more concrete data to make an informed decision, than an unvaxxed person. Nobody does. The virus is new. The Vaccine is new. We only know what's happened in the last 18 months...

More things to divide us by

hey Blondey111, to be honest , if I was having a heart attack and I survived because of the dr. And nurses? I would give them all a big hug or kiss for keeping me from dying, weather they had been vaccinated or not. Hell they could have leperacy if they saved my life. Like I said I’ve had my vaccine so I don’t worry about it effecting me. I’ve heard viral specialists say in the U.S. by March everyone in the us over 12 will have immunity weather from the vaccine or from the virus itself. I would think that with little vaccines in these poorer country’s natural immunity would be excelling rapidly. The US is suppose to be donating millions of doses of the vaccine to these country’s .

that’s sweet of you to say. Thanks. I understand your hesitation of getting out and about. You’ve seen a lot of suffering . I hope all those survived. You shouldn’t feel the way you describe yourself . You handle yourself pretty well on this site. I’m sure you have a lot to offer and most folks would drawn to you. PS I plan on being around a lot longer. Lots more fish to catch.

it is more a matter of how many have immunity Bob .. whether through infection or immunity .. that is the only way herd immunity will be reached . Until that happens .. covid can still mutate .

As far as health .. choosing not to be vaccinated increases your risk if you develop other health related issues that require hospitalisation . Anyone who has a good understanding of pathophysiology would understand that risk .

To oppose vaccination because of safety concerns is one thing but to oppose it citing personal /political freedoms is another . We have limited tools and resources to fight covid .. vaccination does not just protect health it protects the economy .. surely anyone worried about personal freedoms would recognise how important that is .

The underlying issue still remains a lack of hospitals and resources to cope with large outbreaks and maintain regular health services ., The focus should be on that . What Improvements has your country made ? I can imagine the dissent if people requiring hospitalisation are turned away ...
ask yourself what is the greater evil ???