Community > Posts By > Kleisto

 
Kleisto's photo
Sat 06/15/13 06:10 AM


I know for a fact, plenty of ways people can and do get paid for sex, Im sure they dont care if the government sanctions it or not,,,actually, they probably prefer government 'stay out of it' so they can keep more of their literally hard earned money


Actually a lot of people care about it a lot more than you think.....because as it is they put themselves very much at risk both in terms of the threat of being arrested and such as I've mentioned, and also having a greater chance of being abused by seedy people who are able to get away with as much as they do strictly based on how we have stigmatized and criminalized what they are doing for a living or what someone is choosing to buy and partake of. If we did not do that, that would not as easily happen, and you obviously would have a LOT less people charged with consensual crimes and having their lives destroyed over something they chose to do privately with another person or group of people.

Given all that, when it's a choice between continuing to foster that type of a culture, and hurting so many men and women in the process vs. simply legalizing the whole thing and lifting the veil on this industry once and for all.....which one is really doing more harm here?

I know you don't personally believe in government sanctioning sexual choices (and I'm as much against government involvement things as anyone, probably more than most even), but in this particular instance the benefits of doing so far outweigh any perceived negative effect.

Kleisto's photo
Sat 06/15/13 05:40 AM
Edited by Kleisto on Sat 06/15/13 05:42 AM

to make sexual work a legitimate career, would mean applying taxes and tax policy,,,,as stated above, there is ALREADY nothing that prevents people from whatever sexual behavior they choose

but to make sex a mere taxable 'service' has no point,,,,
and escorting is still legal,, so the option to be paid for ones company is still not oppressed,,,


But if someone wants to pay for sex or get paid for it they can't, and it's not right. Hell some of the workers who do it DO pay taxes anyhow, so why not just make it legal? Who does consensual sex harm here? Please tell me?

Besides that, if you film it and sell it it's legal as it is, so why exactly should that change because it's private? Where is the logic in that?

Finally, making it a "service" DOES have a point because for those that choose to wanna do it (or those who are paying for it) then they can do it legally without having to worry about being arrested, having a criminal record, or being hurt or abused by the underground system (one of the big problems by having it illegal), why exactly is it ok to force them to do this under the table just because it goes against someone's moral code? If they want to be paid for it they ought to have every right to do it, same as someone who wants to pay for it the same. It is not anyone's business but their own. So there is a very good reason for making it legal, several in fact.

Kleisto's photo
Sat 06/15/13 05:30 AM





in any case,, I clearly see an anti christian agenda spreading, a very worldly PUBLIC culture being adopted in its place,, and for that reason


It's not anti-christian......it's anti-pushing your morality onto everyone else, there is a difference. This is NOT about you, you can believe anything you want, but you should not have the right to make everyone else believe it with you. Keep it personal.



there is no such thing as not pushing morality,, its just WHICH morality is pushed

I dont care for the type being endoctrinated into the schools,,,
thats my perogative,,,

it is personal, that is why it is my personal choice to send my child to such schools,,,


If it's personal than it should STAY with you, the moment you try and force it on someone else (and being exposed to is not the same as forcing you to believe it fyi), you cross that line. If it's personal to you, don't involve others in it. Simple.

Frankly I think the fact that you are so afraid of your kids being taught other idea speaks to your own insecurities about your parenting skills. If you raised them right what others tell them would be of no consequence right? What is there to fear if you did your job?



frankly, I think the fact that you think outside influences dont affect children, rEGARDLESS of their upbringing,, speaks to how little you know about childhood/adolescent tendencies or parenting

I will continue to choose to engulf my child in the experiences and surroundings I feel benefit her for the best,,,,public educat

what do non believers fear if they are parenting right , if religion is permitted in school teachings?

,,,foolish questin


It's fine if you want religion in your school teaching, but it should NOT be just yours, that's brainwashing the child, indoctrinating them. And that's why non believers get into an uproar about it because the kids are not taught anything but the accepted belief system. If you're gonna do it, teach them all, otherwise you shouldn't teach any.

What exactly is different about the Muslims teaching THEIR belief over yours? Why is it ok for you to preach YOUR version of religion but if someone else wants to do the same thing you are doing now and corner the market for their belief system it's not right? That's hypocritical, if you can do it, so should they be able to, and if not then you shouldn't either.

As for the kids thing.....I may not have the experience you have, but I can tell you right now I would have respected my dad and his family (and my mom's side for that matter) a HELL of a lot more if they would listen to me instead of just trying to mold me into what they wanted/want for me. All that ever does to me is push one away and causes resentment.

It's good enough for me to tell what NOT to do when I raise my own child if I ever have one, I may decide not to. But if I do, I sure as hell won't raise them like they can't have a view on something like others do or like I was raised. No way.

Kleisto's photo
Sat 06/15/13 05:22 AM
Edited by Kleisto on Sat 06/15/13 05:22 AM







If the majority of the public were not some sort of Christian there would not be any fuss at all about not allowing public conducted prayer in schools.




Though hate may attack it, the Christian faith is built on a firm foundation.




The issue of not allowing ceremonial prayer to a particular religion or God in a government or public institution or gathering has NOTHING to do with "hate" of the Christian faith or any other faith.


Yeah really, Christians have this whole thing that any attack is personally directed at them. They need to get over themselves. No one really cares what they believe privately, they can believe the moon is made of cheese if they wanted to. That's not the issue, it's how they USE that belief to influence public policy and try and shame other people who don't think or act like they do that is the problem. They never stop to think that maybe it's how they act that brings all the backlash, they just think people hate them for what they believe and it's just not true.

Frankly as much as they persecute others they have no room to complain in the first place, because they are simply getting back what they have put out for years. Not many are gonna feel much sympathy for them when that's the case. It's like the saying goes, what goes around, what comes around. If they didn't wanna be "persecuted" they shouldn't have persecuted others.



'That's not the issue, it's how they USE that belief to influence public policy and try and shame other people who don't think or act like they do that is the problem. They never stop to think that maybe it's how they act that brings all the backlash, they just think people hate them for what they believe and it's just not true.'



both sides can logically lay this claim against the other

few people are 'persecuted' today, and as a group homosxuals arent oppressed

but individuals face obstacles and hatred from other individuals, sure

and peoples behaviors are either upheld , supported, or discouraged

thats life,,,


Homosexuals aren't oppressed? So the fact that people are trying to stop them from getting the SAME benefits and rights as straight couples have doesn't count? Get out of here with that, don't be an apologist. Christians oppress them a lot more than they claim they are being. Same goes for a group like sex workers. These are just people that want to live their lives how they like that's all it is. To deny them that is to oppress...no one is really oppressing Christians from believing what they want at all by comparison.

As for the rest, maybe it may be life, but I say it's time we all grow the hell up and stop making others business ours.



bologna, people arent trying to prevent them from having rights, civil union has always been on the board, which would do just that

but LGBT want total ACCEPTANCE of their SEXUAL lifestyle , so it is important to have that sexual lifestyle legally sanctioned in the same way heterosexual activity is,,,,

and I agree, we should grow the hell up,, everybody wont nor do they have to embrace or agree with everything we want to do,,,,whether it be sex worker or homosexual behavior

that is not the same as being 'oppressed'


Firstly in the case of the sex workers (and by extension their clients) , it is the same as being oppressed because they are forced entirely underground having to fear having their lives ruined on a daily basis, because of certain peoples' morality being offended making what they do consensually with other adults illegal. That's number one. Number two, why should gays have to settle for civil union if they wanna be married like everyone else? Why is that any of our business? There is no good reason for it, ones personal morality is not a legitimate excuse to deny them it.

We don't have to agree on everything, but just cause you disagree with a behavior or act does not give you the right to take away someones' ability to do it if they so choose. No one should be able to do that. That's not what a free society is based upon.

Kleisto's photo
Fri 06/14/13 08:24 PM









...in any case,, I clearly see an anti christian agenda spreading, a very worldly PUBLIC culture being adopted in its place,, and for that reason

I choose to send my child to private or christian education when I Can so that she is not endoctrinated into worldly ways,,,,so completely


Yes, there will be many who will someday regret their efforts in silencing the Lord's Church in America.




Seriously?

--That does sound like a threat, and I'm not surprised. I've heard threats coming from Christians quite often.

But your threat is uncalled for. No one is trying to "silence" anyone!! You can preach your religion as much as you want. But in order for freedom of religion to remain in this country you cannot insist on preaching it AT A PUBLIC EVENT OR PUBLIC SCHOOL.

P.S. praying to your God in an OFFICIAL CAPACITY at a public event is the same as preaching.

If you want to live in a country that is run by a religion, then become a Muslim and move to a Muslim country run by Muslim zealots.

Or move to Israel and live according to their Jewish religious laws.

And by the way, many government functions still do it anyway.




Strange...how you see a threat from my last statement.

The threat is the philosophy you have chosen.

You're making a bed you are having to sleep in.


We do live in a country that was founded on Biblical principles

...but has now been terribly fragmented by various philosophies.

Look around...see the chaos?




Yes, there will be many who will someday regret their efforts in spreading myths and silencing the truth.

I have no problem with some Biblical principles, like "love they enemy"

But apparently since there are three major religions based on the Bible who continue to hate and make war with each other, I see that is where the chaos is coming from.




The three major religions you are thinking of are not all based on the Bible.

The only one that would make that claim would be Christianity.

The Bible is a book that includes the origin of all men and their final destination.

It is a history book and it is prophetic.







Jews Worship the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

Christians worship the same God.
But God promised the world a Savior.

Christians have accepted the life, teaching, death, burial, and ressurection of Jesus Christ.

Jews as a whole have yet to receive Him.

But that day is fast approaching.



People have been claiming the end is nigh for YEARS, last I checked we're still here........the way I see it all this waiting for a savior business is just a way to strip us of our power and put it toward something that will never come instead. It is a way to keep us from rising up.

Kleisto's photo
Fri 06/14/13 08:21 PM









...in any case,, I clearly see an anti christian agenda spreading, a very worldly PUBLIC culture being adopted in its place,, and for that reason

I choose to send my child to private or christian education when I Can so that she is not endoctrinated into worldly ways,,,,so completely


Yes, there will be many who will someday regret their efforts in silencing the Lord's Church in America.




Seriously?

--That does sound like a threat, and I'm not surprised. I've heard threats coming from Christians quite often.

But your threat is uncalled for. No one is trying to "silence" anyone!! You can preach your religion as much as you want. But in order for freedom of religion to remain in this country you cannot insist on preaching it AT A PUBLIC EVENT OR PUBLIC SCHOOL.

P.S. praying to your God in an OFFICIAL CAPACITY at a public event is the same as preaching.

If you want to live in a country that is run by a religion, then become a Muslim and move to a Muslim country run by Muslim zealots.

Or move to Israel and live according to their Jewish religious laws.

And by the way, many government functions still do it anyway.




Strange...how you see a threat from my last statement.

The threat is the philosophy you have chosen.

You're making a bed you are having to sleep in.


We do live in a country that was founded on Biblical principles

...but has now been terribly fragmented by various philosophies.

Look around...see the chaos?




Yes, there will be many who will someday regret their efforts in spreading myths and silencing the truth.

I have no problem with some Biblical principles, like "love they enemy"

But apparently since there are three major religions based on the Bible who continue to hate and make war with each other, I see that is where the chaos is coming from.




The three major religions you are thinking of are not all based on the Bible.

The only one that would make that claim would be Christianity.

The Bible is a book that includes the origin of all men and their final destination.

It is a history book and it is prophetic.







Yes They are all based on the Bible. And they all depend on the myth of Abraham and King David to even exist.



Yep, and there is no evidence of it, let alone evidence of anything else the Bible claims true. A true history book needs the evidence to support it to be factual, the Bible fails that test miserably.

Kleisto's photo
Fri 06/14/13 08:20 PM
Edited by Kleisto on Fri 06/14/13 08:23 PM



in any case,, I clearly see an anti christian agenda spreading, a very worldly PUBLIC culture being adopted in its place,, and for that reason


It's not anti-christian......it's anti-pushing your morality onto everyone else, there is a difference. This is NOT about you, you can believe anything you want, but you should not have the right to make everyone else believe it with you. Keep it personal.



there is no such thing as not pushing morality,, its just WHICH morality is pushed

I dont care for the type being endoctrinated into the schools,,,
thats my perogative,,,

it is personal, that is why it is my personal choice to send my child to such schools,,,


If it's personal than it should STAY with you, the moment you try and force it on someone else (and being exposed to is not the same as forcing you to believe it fyi), you cross that line. If it's personal to you, don't involve others in it. Simple.

Frankly I think the fact that you are so afraid of your kids being taught other idea speaks to your own insecurities about your parenting skills. If you raised them right what others tell them would be of no consequence right? What is there to fear if you did your job?

Kleisto's photo
Fri 06/14/13 08:16 PM
Edited by Kleisto on Fri 06/14/13 08:18 PM





If the majority of the public were not some sort of Christian there would not be any fuss at all about not allowing public conducted prayer in schools.




Though hate may attack it, the Christian faith is built on a firm foundation.




The issue of not allowing ceremonial prayer to a particular religion or God in a government or public institution or gathering has NOTHING to do with "hate" of the Christian faith or any other faith.


Yeah really, Christians have this whole thing that any attack is personally directed at them. They need to get over themselves. No one really cares what they believe privately, they can believe the moon is made of cheese if they wanted to. That's not the issue, it's how they USE that belief to influence public policy and try and shame other people who don't think or act like they do that is the problem. They never stop to think that maybe it's how they act that brings all the backlash, they just think people hate them for what they believe and it's just not true.

Frankly as much as they persecute others they have no room to complain in the first place, because they are simply getting back what they have put out for years. Not many are gonna feel much sympathy for them when that's the case. It's like the saying goes, what goes around, what comes around. If they didn't wanna be "persecuted" they shouldn't have persecuted others.



'That's not the issue, it's how they USE that belief to influence public policy and try and shame other people who don't think or act like they do that is the problem. They never stop to think that maybe it's how they act that brings all the backlash, they just think people hate them for what they believe and it's just not true.'



both sides can logically lay this claim against the other

few people are 'persecuted' today, and as a group homosxuals arent oppressed

but individuals face obstacles and hatred from other individuals, sure

and peoples behaviors are either upheld , supported, or discouraged

thats life,,,


Homosexuals aren't oppressed? So the fact that people are trying to stop them from getting the SAME benefits and rights as straight couples have doesn't count? Get out of here with that, don't be an apologist. Christians oppress them a lot more than they claim they are being. Same goes for a group like sex workers. These are just people that want to live their lives how they like that's all it is. To deny them that is to oppress...no one is really oppressing Christians from believing what they want at all by comparison.

As for the rest, maybe it may be life, but I say it's time we all grow the hell up and stop making others business ours.

Kleisto's photo
Fri 06/14/13 07:25 PM








...in any case,, I clearly see an anti christian agenda spreading, a very worldly PUBLIC culture being adopted in its place,, and for that reason

I choose to send my child to private or christian education when I Can so that she is not endoctrinated into worldly ways,,,,so completely


Yes, there will be many who will someday regret their efforts in silencing the Lord's Church in America.




Seriously?

--That does sound like a threat, and I'm not surprised. I've heard threats coming from Christians quite often.

But your threat is uncalled for. No one is trying to "silence" anyone!! You can preach your religion as much as you want. But in order for freedom of religion to remain in this country you cannot insist on preaching it AT A PUBLIC EVENT OR PUBLIC SCHOOL.

P.S. praying to your God in an OFFICIAL CAPACITY at a public event is the same as preaching.

If you want to live in a country that is run by a religion, then become a Muslim and move to a Muslim country run by Muslim zealots.

Or move to Israel and live according to their Jewish religious laws.

And by the way, many government functions still do it anyway.




Strange...how you see a threat from my last statement.

The threat is the philosophy you have chosen.

You're making a bed you are having to sleep in.

We do live in a country that was founded on Biblical principles...but has now been terribly fragmented by various philosophies.

Look around...see the chaos.




Your philosophies have fragmented as much as anything else......hell you ENCOURAGE the fragmenting by making yourselves separate from everyone else. So before you wanna talk about fragmenting, look in the mirror k?

Not to mention you got fragmenting in your OWN belief system.......doesn't speak well for it if you ask me if you can't even agree on what you believe in.

and we were NOT founded on biblical principles, we were meant to have freedom of religion.......and church and state were meant to be separate. You're spouting something you don't know anything about.


BIBLE INSPIRED AMERICA'S FOUNDING DOCUMENTS




The United States of America was built upon three fundamental documents: The Declaration of Independence, The U.S. Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Taken together, these documents form the basis of all our laws, principles and heritage. To destroy the principles contained in these documents is to destroy the country. Unfortunately, that is exactly what has been happening for many years now.

The destruction of America's founding principles can be directly traced to the country's willful rejection of the Bible as our source of divine authority. America has done more than expel God and the Bible from our schools; it has expelled God and the Bible from politics, commerce, and even our very way of life. Should it be any wonder then that our founding documents are also being expunged? After all, America's founding documents are themselves predicated upon God and the Bible.

The Declaration of Independence states, "[Men] are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." It also states that these rights are "self evident" and that they constitute the "Laws of Nature." These principles are taken directly from the Bible.

The Law of Nature can be viewed in Romans 2:14-16. That our Creator is the Author of life is seen in Genesis 2:7. That God, not government, grants liberty is seen in Galatians 5:1. The "pursuit of happiness" is found in Ecclesiastes 3:13.

Beyond that, virtually every one of the ten articles contained in the Bill of Rights has Biblical foundation. The First Amendment recognizes the natural right of freedom of speech, religion and assembly. Christians are clearly given divine instruction regarding each of these responsibilities. Our founding documents properly established a government designed to "secure these rights." Therefore, under the First Amendment, Christians are free to preach the Gospel and to assemble for worship.

Likewise, the Second Amendment has Biblical foundation. Our Lord said in Luke 11:21, "When a strong man armed keepeth his palace, his goods are in peace." In Luke 22:35, 36 He said, "He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."

Other articles contained in the Bill of Rights also have Biblical basis. For example, the Fourth Amendment comes from Deuteronomy 24:10, 11. The Eighth Amendment originates in Deuteronomy 15: 2, 3. Again, these principles are "self evident" truths which come from "the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God."

Even America's constitutional form of government consisting of three co-equal branches, legislative, executive and judicial is taken directly from Isaiah 33:22.

Therefore, when citizens, especially Christian citizens, allow their elected representatives to ignore or violate these founding documents, they are in essence allowing them to destroy the very basis and foundation of our country.

Christian citizens should demand that their elected leaders not merely talk like Christians, but that they actually govern like Christians. That means holding their political leaders accountable to the laws and principles contained in the Declaration of Independence, the U.S. Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

However, elected leaders from both parties today are totally ignoring or egregiously violating the laws and principles contained in our founding documents. As such, they are helping to destroy this republic, all of their Christian rhetoric notwithstanding. But that's not their fault-it's ours!

© 2003 Chuck Baldwin - All Rights Reserved
http://www.newswithviews.com/baldwin/baldwin114.htm


And that's written by a PASTOR......but of course he could never be biased now could he? Course not........frustrated

Kleisto's photo
Fri 06/14/13 07:22 PM



"You don't know me dude, you can assume things but you can't know. After my experiences in religion, there's no damn way I will ever raise my child in that environment, not if I have anything to say about it. I will raise my child to THINK about they believe in, to ask questions, to make their own decisions. Of course I'll try to teach them decent morals, but I will encourage them to be responsible for themselves as all parents should do. I'm not gonna try and strong arm them like a lot of others might.

And if they decided to be religious later I may not agree with it but I'd accept them just the same, I wouldn't cast them out or judge them. I just would want them to know why they believe something, and what they do from that would be up to them.

I firmly believe parents sometimes need to control less, and listen more, empower more. You'd have better kids and better relationships then."


You have bias, Kleisto...You will probably teach your children Christianity from a wounded man's viewpoint.

That is not fair for the children!


and it's fair to teach them full belief in strictly? I don't think so.

And you don't know how I would raise my kids so don't assume. The main thing I would teach them with ANY belief, Christianity or otherwise would be to question before they believe it, even my own. Now if they came to me and asked what I thought I would tell them, but I would not preach to them. I'd let them make up their own mind. It is after all their life, not mine.

Too many parents try to make their kids into what THEY want them to be not caring what the child needs or wants. That's where you lose them a lot I think. Don't force em into your box and you'll have better relationships as they get older and more respect. You ask for rebellion otherwise.


You claimed that they should be taught unbiased information but you are incapable...by your own admittance.

You are too wounded by your personal experiences.




No I'm not, because I will compel them to question, not just accept, even from me. I'll tell them what I think but they won't have to believe me. That's more than can be said for religious. They don't teach to question, just obedience. That's a lot more bias showing than what you claim I would do.

Kleisto's photo
Fri 06/14/13 06:49 PM
Edited by Kleisto on Fri 06/14/13 06:51 PM






...in any case,, I clearly see an anti christian agenda spreading, a very worldly PUBLIC culture being adopted in its place,, and for that reason

I choose to send my child to private or christian education when I Can so that she is not endoctrinated into worldly ways,,,,so completely


Yes, there will be many who will someday regret their efforts in silencing the Lord's Church in America.




Seriously?

--That does sound like a threat, and I'm not surprised. I've heard threats coming from Christians quite often.

But your threat is uncalled for. No one is trying to "silence" anyone!! You can preach your religion as much as you want. But in order for freedom of religion to remain in this country you cannot insist on preaching it AT A PUBLIC EVENT OR PUBLIC SCHOOL.

P.S. praying to your God in an OFFICIAL CAPACITY at a public event is the same as preaching.

If you want to live in a country that is run by a religion, then become a Muslim and move to a Muslim country run by Muslim zealots.

Or move to Israel and live according to their Jewish religious laws.

And by the way, many government functions still do it anyway.




Strange...how you see a threat from my last statement.

The threat is the philosophy you have chosen.

You're making a bed you are having to sleep in.

We do live in a country that was founded on Biblical principles...but has now been terribly fragmented by various philosophies.

Look around...see the chaos.




Your philosophies have fragmented as much as anything else......hell you ENCOURAGE the fragmenting by making yourselves separate from everyone else. So before you wanna talk about fragmenting, look in the mirror k?

Not to mention you got fragmenting in your OWN belief system.......doesn't speak well for it if you ask me if you can't even agree on what you believe in.

and we were NOT founded on biblical principles, we were meant to have freedom of religion.......and church and state were meant to be separate. You're spouting something you don't know anything about.

Kleisto's photo
Fri 06/14/13 06:38 PM
Edited by Kleisto on Fri 06/14/13 06:38 PM


You don't know me dude, you can assume things but you can't know. After my experiences in religion, there's no damn way I will ever raise my child in that environment, not if I have anything to say about it. I will raise my child to THINK about they believe in, to ask questions, to make their own decisions. Of course I'll try to teach them decent morals, but I will encourage them to be responsible for themselves as all parents should do. I'm not gonna try and strong arm them like a lot of others might.

And if they decided to be religious later I may not agree with it but I'd accept them just the same, I wouldn't cast them out or judge them. I just would want them to know why they believe something, and what they do from that would be up to them.

I firmly believe parents sometimes need to control less, and listen more, empower more. You'd have better kids and better relationships then.

offtopic
that was my point about being bias (we all are in different ways). you had an experience that left a bad taste in your mouth, and now you are too stubborn to have an open mind. children do need guidance and will buck no matter how right you think you are. you seem like a motivated young man, and i hope you see the good in what you experienced and try to focus on that over the bad you cling to. i don't mean to offend, and sorry for getting off topic
btw i do read your posts and i know you offer some good points


On the kids, I really do think if you give them enough space to make their own life, you will have an easier time than if you fight them for it all the time. Maybe it's naive to some, but that's what I think. Respect the child and they'll respect you IMO.

As for the other part you are wrong I DO have an open mind, and if religion could make sense to me I would believe it again, but it can't so I do not.

Just because I don't accept what everyone tells me to doesn't mean I don't have an open mind om stubborn. It actually it means I have more of a mind and am less stubborn than some others are because I actually question what I'm told instead of accept more blindly even if it means going away from that belief. But no my mind is open, religion just doesn't jive with me anymore, and I can't see myself going back again having opened my eyes to the issues with it.

Kleisto's photo
Fri 06/14/13 06:32 PM
Edited by Kleisto on Fri 06/14/13 06:33 PM

"You don't know me dude, you can assume things but you can't know. After my experiences in religion, there's no damn way I will ever raise my child in that environment, not if I have anything to say about it. I will raise my child to THINK about they believe in, to ask questions, to make their own decisions. Of course I'll try to teach them decent morals, but I will encourage them to be responsible for themselves as all parents should do. I'm not gonna try and strong arm them like a lot of others might.

And if they decided to be religious later I may not agree with it but I'd accept them just the same, I wouldn't cast them out or judge them. I just would want them to know why they believe something, and what they do from that would be up to them.

I firmly believe parents sometimes need to control less, and listen more, empower more. You'd have better kids and better relationships then."


You have bias, Kleisto...You will probably teach your children Christianity from a wounded man's viewpoint.

That is not fair for the children!


and it's fair to teach them full belief in strictly? I don't think so.

And you don't know how I would raise my kids so don't assume. The main thing I would teach them with ANY belief, Christianity or otherwise would be to question before they believe it, even my own. Now if they came to me and asked what I thought I would tell them, but I would not preach to them. I'd let them make up their own mind. It is after all their life, not mine.

Too many parents try to make their kids into what THEY want them to be not caring what the child needs or wants. That's where you lose them a lot I think. Don't force em into your box and you'll have better relationships as they get older and more respect. You ask for rebellion otherwise.

Kleisto's photo
Fri 06/14/13 05:49 PM
Edited by Kleisto on Fri 06/14/13 05:50 PM


Just seen not long ago on the History channel that Scientist went into a large silent prayer meeting and their instruments started spiking when they started praying.. They had no explanation for what was happening at all


So? They have no reason to assume the spiking was caused by the praying either.




Or that it was the Christian God that answered the prayer. A friend once told me that the major reason every religion thinks their way is right, is because they ALL experience and feel God if they seek it, no matter how or what name they give it. So assuming that to be the case, what you saw WAS God answering them, but not YOUR God specifically, just God period. They sought it, so they were answered.

Kleisto's photo
Fri 06/14/13 05:18 PM

No, you still have choice. You still have choice cause you make a decision. The result(s) of the choice are irrelevant to if there is a choice or not. If you have the ability to choose, you have choice.


Cowboy, let me explain something to you. If we're walking around, and we approach a cliff, and I tell you not to go too close or you'll fall over it, that is WORLDS APART from saying I will throw you over it if you don't listen to me. The first is a true choice leaving it to you what happens, the other is blackmail. Technically a choice exists but to live one doesn't.

Furthermore.......any human being with a halfway decent conscience is NOT gonna let someone go over said cliff if they don't listen to them. Even if they made a bad choice to not heed the warning....you're not gonna just let them die. So even IF your God was just trying to warn people of what would happen if they disobeyed him, he's not much of a loving God if he's gonna let them die even though he has the ability to stop it. I expect more of a God who is to be better than us than that.

Kleisto's photo
Fri 06/14/13 05:10 PM

prayer is a way to acknowledge and communicate with God,,, beyond that,,what it is is personal and subjective,,,


Keywords, personal and subjective.....so why do you think YOUR path is the only correct one?

Kleisto's photo
Fri 06/14/13 05:06 PM

in any case,, I clearly see an anti christian agenda spreading, a very worldly PUBLIC culture being adopted in its place,, and for that reason


It's not anti-christian......it's anti-pushing your morality onto everyone else, there is a difference. This is NOT about you, you can believe anything you want, but you should not have the right to make everyone else believe it with you. Keep it personal.

Kleisto's photo
Fri 06/14/13 02:41 PM
Edited by Kleisto on Fri 06/14/13 02:42 PM


To me a child should be introduced to such ideas ONLY when they are capable of understanding them. If I ever have kids, I will not brainwash them into religion otherwise. If they wish to go down that path later then fine, but I will not push one or another onto them. They should make their own choices.

offtopic
this is why having children should require a license lol. you will instill in your children what you believe. if you speak english you will only teach them english. you will feed them what you eat, encourage behavior you tolerate, discourage behavior you don't. i guarantee i guarantee your views will change once you hold your son/daughter in your arms. you will want your child to excel in the world you live in, not the world you dream of


You don't know me dude, you can assume things but you can't know. After my experiences in religion, there's no damn way I will ever raise my child in that environment, not if I have anything to say about it. I will raise my child to THINK about they believe in, to ask questions, to make their own decisions. Of course I'll try to teach them decent morals, but I will encourage them to be responsible for themselves as all parents should do. I'm not gonna try and strong arm them like a lot of others might.

And if they decided to be religious later I may not agree with it but I'd accept them just the same, I wouldn't cast them out or judge them. I just would want them to know why they believe something, and what they do from that would be up to them.

I firmly believe parents sometimes need to control less, and listen more, empower more. You'd have better kids and better relationships then.

Kleisto's photo
Fri 06/14/13 02:36 PM
Edited by Kleisto on Fri 06/14/13 02:37 PM

Sounds like a lot of propaganda to me.

Christians are quick to complain about not being able to conduct Christian prayer in schools but even quicker to keep Islam out of public schools.


Pretty much, as I've said before, Christians are all for freedom of religion.......but only if theirs is being supported. They could care less about anyone elses'.

Kleisto's photo
Fri 06/14/13 02:34 PM



If the majority of the public were not some sort of Christian there would not be any fuss at all about not allowing public conducted prayer in schools.




Though hate may attack it, the Christian faith is built on a firm foundation.




The issue of not allowing ceremonial prayer to a particular religion or God in a government or public institution or gathering has NOTHING to do with "hate" of the Christian faith or any other faith.


Yeah really, Christians have this whole thing that any attack is personally directed at them. They need to get over themselves. No one really cares what they believe privately, they can believe the moon is made of cheese if they wanted to. That's not the issue, it's how they USE that belief to influence public policy and try and shame other people who don't think or act like they do that is the problem. They never stop to think that maybe it's how they act that brings all the backlash, they just think people hate them for what they believe and it's just not true.

Frankly as much as they persecute others they have no room to complain in the first place, because they are simply getting back what they have put out for years. Not many are gonna feel much sympathy for them when that's the case. It's like the saying goes, what goes around, what comes around. If they didn't wanna be "persecuted" they shouldn't have persecuted others.

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