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Edited by
Kleisto
on
Sun 06/09/13 08:06 PM
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think whatever you like when you carry life in you for nine months, sacrifice to raise and nurture it your whole life,, and then give unpopular advice based upon wanting them to have a healthy life I hope noone is pompous enough to suggest to you that your intentions are elsewhere there are plenty of things he doesnt think like I do, they cause him no harm , they are not unhealthy we dont agree in our taste in music, yet I still sit and listen to his musical interests with him we dont agree in our taste in fashione, yet I still have taken him shopping for what he wants to wear ,,,,please dont start ASSuming you know how I feel or how much I Care for my kids,,,, I don't really have to, what you've said on this site tells me plenty. You may in your mind think you're doing the right thing in treating the lifestyle this way, but in reality it's still not loving him how you think it is. haaa, ok,,,,I will rely on your expertise in parental love and raising children on this one,, NOT Don't have to have a kid to know what is proper love and care and what isn't. I can respect the fact you don't push your belief on him now as an adult, but have you ever thought to ask him how he feels about that? If that bothers him or hurts him? I would bet it probably does even if he doesn't say it. I mean how would you feel if your parents rejected the person you wanted to be with? |
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well then they are 'selfish' because they should expect a valedictorian at such an event who expresses THEIR Personal view of their future,, thats what happens,,, if they dont want to hear about religion, maybe they should make sure their kid gets to be the valedictorian so that religion isnt mentioned,, So, if it were an atheist who was valedictorian and they went on about how god wasn't real, you'd be fine with that? No they wouldn't. I can just hear the speech now. Ladies and Gentlemen, I have some good news for you all. There is no heaven or hell and the Devil does not exist and there is no God and Jesus is not coming back. You are on your own. So please take responsibility for yourselves and be kind to one another and live your lives the best way you c Thats a good point Jeannie personally, I go to graduations to celebrate my loved ones accomplishment, and if the valedictorian chosen to speak expressed that was his view,, I wouldnt whinge about it it wouldnt be the point of why I was there and he would be free to feel and express whatever he wanted,, without me needing to 'like it' in order to respect his right to feel it and say it,,, Personally, I don't believe you. Oh I believe you would not whinge or make a fuss because you would just let it slide so as not to make a scene. But you would not like it if someone got up there and started talking about there not being any God, or about Gay rights. Especially gay rights. I wouldnt like it and I wouldnt have to,, but there would be plenty of other things going on that I WOULD like ,, and my expectation would not be that everything in that public forum would be something I 'liked',,,,, I dont expect in public that every person is going to be doing and saying things I LIKE,, because I dont expect everyone to like the same things,,,, Ok so then if you understand that, what makes you think you have the right to tell someone else how to act personally in front of you, not preaching but just being who they are. never said anything about having that right, I cant tell any adult how to act unless they are in my home,,, not sure what you are talking about,,, just the idea of being so upset and offended when gay people show being gay in public. |
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Edited by
Kleisto
on
Sun 06/09/13 07:57 PM
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I listen to my children, I value my children, I Tell my children truth and not pc , feel good, do what feels good, rhetoric,,, my children will tell you that listening to them has never been an issue,, my family believes love doesnt have to exclude honesty for the sake of sparing feelings,,,honesty is a PART Of how we love each other,,caring enough to tell the truth,,, You're not though, you tell them YOUR truth. And as far as listening to your kids, isn't your son gay? If you truly listened to him and valued him as you say you would respect him as he is, and simply want him to be happy in it that life as opposed just drawing a line in the sand that he's wrong based on what you believe. listening to him doesnt require me to agree with whatever he says or does ,,,,,,,,and respecting him isnt based upon any requirement to agree with everything he says or does either,,, I Want him to be happy AND Healthy,, and what he engages in is NOT HEALTHY,,,, smokers are happy smoking until they get cancer, and I wouldnt be fine with him smoking either ,,,,whether it made him 'happy' or not,, I would explain that it was not something I could ever be pleased about beause I want him to have a HEALTHY life Smoking and this are not the same thing. Just be honest and admit you want him to think like you do, and you're upset that he's not. That's really what it is to me. You care more about your moral beliefs being upheld than what he wants for his life. Justify it how you want, it's still selfish and not good parenting, no matter the intentions. Ever stop to think how he feels when you reject him like this? I suspect not. think whatever you like when you carry life in you for nine months, sacrifice to raise and nurture it your whole life,, and then give unpopular advice based upon wanting them to have a healthy life I hope noone is pompous enough to suggest to you that your intentions are elsewhere there are plenty of things he doesnt think like I do, they cause him no harm , they are not unhealthy we dont agree in our taste in music, yet I still sit and listen to his musical interests with him we dont agree in our taste in fashione, yet I still have taken him shopping for what he wants to wear ,,,,please dont start ASSuming you know how I feel or how much I Care for my kids,,,, I don't really have to, what you've said on this site tells me plenty. You may in your mind think you're doing the right thing in treating the lifestyle this way, but in reality it's still not loving him how you think it is. |
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well then they are 'selfish' because they should expect a valedictorian at such an event who expresses THEIR Personal view of their future,, thats what happens,,, if they dont want to hear about religion, maybe they should make sure their kid gets to be the valedictorian so that religion isnt mentioned,, So, if it were an atheist who was valedictorian and they went on about how god wasn't real, you'd be fine with that? No they wouldn't. I can just hear the speech now. Ladies and Gentlemen, I have some good news for you all. There is no heaven or hell and the Devil does not exist and there is no God and Jesus is not coming back. You are on your own. So please take responsibility for yourselves and be kind to one another and live your lives the best way you c Thats a good point Jeannie personally, I go to graduations to celebrate my loved ones accomplishment, and if the valedictorian chosen to speak expressed that was his view,, I wouldnt whinge about it it wouldnt be the point of why I was there and he would be free to feel and express whatever he wanted,, without me needing to 'like it' in order to respect his right to feel it and say it,,, Personally, I don't believe you. Oh I believe you would not whinge or make a fuss because you would just let it slide so as not to make a scene. But you would not like it if someone got up there and started talking about there not being any God, or about Gay rights. Especially gay rights. I wouldnt like it and I wouldnt have to,, but there would be plenty of other things going on that I WOULD like ,, and my expectation would not be that everything in that public forum would be something I 'liked',,,,, I dont expect in public that every person is going to be doing and saying things I LIKE,, because I dont expect everyone to like the same things,,,, Ok so then if you understand that, what makes you think you have the right to tell someone else how to act personally in front of you, not preaching but just being who they are. |
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Edited by
Kleisto
on
Sun 06/09/13 07:50 PM
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I listen to my children, I value my children, I Tell my children truth and not pc , feel good, do what feels good, rhetoric,,, my children will tell you that listening to them has never been an issue,, my family believes love doesnt have to exclude honesty for the sake of sparing feelings,,,honesty is a PART Of how we love each other,,caring enough to tell the truth,,, You're not though, you tell them YOUR truth. And as far as listening to your kids, isn't your son gay? If you truly listened to him and valued him as you say you would respect him as he is, and simply want him to be happy in it that life as opposed just drawing a line in the sand that he's wrong based on what you believe. listening to him doesnt require me to agree with whatever he says or does ,,,,,,,,and respecting him isnt based upon any requirement to agree with everything he says or does either,,, I Want him to be happy AND Healthy,, and what he engages in is NOT HEALTHY,,,, smokers are happy smoking until they get cancer, and I wouldnt be fine with him smoking either ,,,,whether it made him 'happy' or not,, I would explain that it was not something I could ever be pleased about beause I want him to have a HEALTHY life Smoking and this are not the same thing. Just be honest and admit you want him to think like you do, and you're upset that he's not. That's really what it is to me. You care more about your moral beliefs being upheld than what he wants for his life. Justify it how you want, it's still selfish and not good parenting, no matter the intentions. Ever stop to think how he feels when you reject him like this? I suspect not. |
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Edited by
Kleisto
on
Sun 06/09/13 07:45 PM
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I listen to my children, I value my children, I Tell my children truth and not pc , feel good, do what feels good, rhetoric,,, my children will tell you that listening to them has never been an issue,, my family believes love doesnt have to exclude honesty for the sake of sparing feelings,,,honesty is a PART Of how we love each other,,caring enough to tell the truth,,, You're not though, you tell them YOUR truth. And as far as listening to your kids, isn't your son gay? If you truly listened to him and valued him as you say you would respect him as he is, and simply want him to be happy in that life as opposed just drawing a line in the sand that he's wrong based on what you believe. |
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WRONG< there is a difference between teaching about homosexuality,, and teaching homosexuality is normal thats the difference I am talking about,,, homosexuality has no reason to be taught to my children, the schools can cover ANAL SEX, or CUNNILINGUS strictly from the anatomical perspective,, there is no reason to go promoting sexual 'preferences' IF hte interest were really in teaching about homosexuality, why wouldnt that include all the EXPONENTIAL Risks that the behavior is associated with? the interest is in teaching the EMBRACING of homosexuality as equal to heterosexuality,,, which is BS I dont want taught to my child from people she is being taught to respect as educators,,,, All I am reading here is you want YOUR agenda, YOUR morals, YOUR beliefs fostered onto the kids. You don't care about them being able to think for themselves, you'd rather do it for them. You cannot separate what you are suggesting from the idea that you want to teach them to judge homosexuals/lesbians as less than acceptable people based solely on whom they choose to share their lives with. You just cannot do it, it goes together. The fact is, kids are GOING to be exposed to these differences as they grow up, and it's something they need to know about and understand so they can handle it. Yes risks should be taught just as much as risks should be taught for straight sex, but to outright instill them that these people are different or less worthy of respect in any way is crossing the line. They may not be able to have kids like straight people can, but there is not one damn thing wrong with being with one another, I don't care what the Bible says about it, it is not relevant for discussion as it pertains to human rights and individuality. It needs to be kept out of discussions like this. Give the child all the information totally unbiased and let them decide from there, is that that hard?? all the information that implies 'there is not one damn thing wrong',,, of course,, right? yeah, thats hard for me becuase its a big pc lie,,,, so says your religion......but you can't base fact on it sorry to tell you. my religion didnt create the disproportionate risk factos check with the CDC {url] http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/risk/gender/msm/ [/url} Hate to bust the fantasy 'all sex is the same if its consentual' bubble, ,,,,,, There's going to be risks in ANY kind of sex, straight or gay it doesn't matter, it will exist. You are just as likely to get std's or other health issues from straight sex than you are from gay. It all comes down to safety in the end. You can throw numbers around all you want, but at the end of the day the bottom line is that if you're safe and smart you are more likely to be ok, and if you're not you won't. That goes for both groups of people. |
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Edited by
Kleisto
on
Sun 06/09/13 07:36 PM
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oh boo hoo, religions have been brainwashing people on how to think or act for YEARS, sorry if I don't exactly feel sorry when it blows back in their faces. You can only keep a people down for so long before they snap, and that's what is happening now. So yeah.......I really don't have much sympathy there, it is a natural reaction to being controlled. If you don't like it, don't try to control in the first place. how are they 'kept' down,, please give me an example anything where they are financially, educationally, or socially held back as a group ANY PROOF WHATSOEVER would be nice,,,, The fact they have had to hide who they are ring a bell to you?? The fact that they have had to constantly hear that something is wrong with them, that they are perverts, sinners destined for hell? You don't think that messes with someones' mind? Don't be naive, religion has long since held a say in how people conduct themselves, even down to what jobs they can or can't hold (think sex workers), or when they can or cannot buy something. Just because you choose to ignore it doesn't mean it hasn't happened. |
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WRONG< there is a difference between teaching about homosexuality,, and teaching homosexuality is normal thats the difference I am talking about,,, homosexuality has no reason to be taught to my children, the schools can cover ANAL SEX, or CUNNILINGUS strictly from the anatomical perspective,, there is no reason to go promoting sexual 'preferences' IF hte interest were really in teaching about homosexuality, why wouldnt that include all the EXPONENTIAL Risks that the behavior is associated with? the interest is in teaching the EMBRACING of homosexuality as equal to heterosexuality,,, which is BS I dont want taught to my child from people she is being taught to respect as educators,,,, All I am reading here is you want YOUR agenda, YOUR morals, YOUR beliefs fostered onto the kids. You don't care about them being able to think for themselves, you'd rather do it for them. You cannot separate what you are suggesting from the idea that you want to teach them to judge homosexuals/lesbians as less than acceptable people based solely on whom they choose to share their lives with. You just cannot do it, it goes together. The fact is, kids are GOING to be exposed to these differences as they grow up, and it's something they need to know about and understand so they can handle it. Yes risks should be taught just as much as risks should be taught for straight sex, but to outright instill them that these people are different or less worthy of respect in any way is crossing the line. They may not be able to have kids like straight people can, but there is not one damn thing wrong with being with one another, I don't care what the Bible says about it, it is not relevant for discussion as it pertains to human rights and individuality. It needs to be kept out of discussions like this. Give the child all the information totally unbiased and let them decide from there, is that that hard?? No Kleisto, I want to carry and birth and provide and care for children whose life is dictated by SOMEONE ELSES agenda, morals, and values  You don't get it, you really don't, their lives should NOT be all about you, let them make of their lives what they choose, this is why a lot of parents lose the respect of their kids because they try and make them what THEY want them to be instead of what the child desires, instead of listening to the child and what it needs. We should not be preaching ultimatums to our kids. Try and keep them from making bad choices? Yes, but not just saying: "this is how it is, like it or not", that's a surefire way to lose the kids and asks for rebellion. Listen to your child, don't just try and control them, you'll get more respect and might even find they'll have a better life for it. |
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WRONG< there is a difference between teaching about homosexuality,, and teaching homosexuality is normal thats the difference I am talking about,,, homosexuality has no reason to be taught to my children, the schools can cover ANAL SEX, or CUNNILINGUS strictly from the anatomical perspective,, there is no reason to go promoting sexual 'preferences' IF hte interest were really in teaching about homosexuality, why wouldnt that include all the EXPONENTIAL Risks that the behavior is associated with? the interest is in teaching the EMBRACING of homosexuality as equal to heterosexuality,,, which is BS I dont want taught to my child from people she is being taught to respect as educators,,,, All I am reading here is you want YOUR agenda, YOUR morals, YOUR beliefs fostered onto the kids. You don't care about them being able to think for themselves, you'd rather do it for them. You cannot separate what you are suggesting from the idea that you want to teach them to judge homosexuals/lesbians as less than acceptable people based solely on whom they choose to share their lives with. You just cannot do it, it goes together. The fact is, kids are GOING to be exposed to these differences as they grow up, and it's something they need to know about and understand so they can handle it. Yes risks should be taught just as much as risks should be taught for straight sex, but to outright instill them that these people are different or less worthy of respect in any way is crossing the line. They may not be able to have kids like straight people can, but there is not one damn thing wrong with being with one another, I don't care what the Bible says about it, it is not relevant for discussion as it pertains to human rights and individuality. It needs to be kept out of discussions like this. Give the child all the information totally unbiased and let them decide from there, is that that hard?? all the information that implies 'there is not one damn thing wrong',,, of course,, right? yeah, thats hard for me becuase its a big pc lie,,,, so says your religion......but you can't base fact on it sorry to tell you. |
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All I am gonna say is this, I best not hear about anyone complaining if a Muslim prays publicly to Allah, or when any other religion or type of spirituality, has a public prayer for that matter, or even when an atheist chooses to make public his or her non belief. Because if you have the right to put yours out like this, so too do they, to say otherwise is hypocritical. So yeah, you want your right to be seen/heard? Fine. But don't complain when someone else wants to do the same, because they deserve the same right then.  Yep. I would like to see someone get up and recite a prayer to Satan and see who gets excited. Indeed.....can guarantee most who support this kid, would be angry at whoever did that. They're all for freedom of religious expression.....as long as it's theirs that is being expressed. They could care less about it otherwise, only when it suits them. Satan carries a different connotation than any God,, that person would probably be booed off the stage as I Cant imagine a prayer to Satan would have anything to do with forgiveness or AVOIDING evil in a culture where 'evil' is pretty universally a bad thing, I Think the comparison is lacking although, it is still about choice its kind of like comparing consentual incest or consentual sex between a teen and an adult, with homosexuality some will insist its not the same thing, although sex is sex and consent is consent likewise prayer is prayer,, although the details can sometimes make quite a bit of difference in perception,, People who worship Satan or the Devil do not consider him to be 'evil.'To them, he is the liberator of the Human race and the light bearer. He brought the knowledge of good and evil to Adam and Eve did he not? God wanted them to remain as innocent and ignorant as animals, procreating just like animals with no knowledge of good and evil. Satan only carries a different connotation to Christians because they are told that he is the ultimate evil and they believe it. And Msharmony, please stop bringing up issues of sex, incest and homosexuality. Are you obsessed with that? This is about sponsoring a particular religious belief in public when it is clearly against the rules to do so. Forget Satan if it bothers you so much. How would you like it if someone got up and did a little preaching about atheism and how there is no such thing as God? Its just rude to push your personal beliefs on a captive crowd at a public setting. Why can't people get this fact into their heads? I Cannot stop bring up homosexuality,, it is an analogy people in this forum who arent particularly religious seem to be extremely fond/protective of homosexuals and homosexuality its a way to get those people to relate to how the RELIGIOUS feel they are treated,,, oh boo hoo, religions have been brainwashing people on how to think or act for YEARS, sorry if I don't exactly feel sorry when it blows back in their faces. You can only keep a people down for so long before they snap, and that's what is happening now. So yeah.......I really don't have much sympathy there, it is a natural reaction to being controlled. If you don't like it, don't try to control in the first place. |
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WRONG< there is a difference between teaching about homosexuality,, and teaching homosexuality is normal thats the difference I am talking about,,, homosexuality has no reason to be taught to my children, the schools can cover ANAL SEX, or CUNNILINGUS strictly from the anatomical perspective,, there is no reason to go promoting sexual 'preferences' IF hte interest were really in teaching about homosexuality, why wouldnt that include all the EXPONENTIAL Risks that the behavior is associated with? the interest is in teaching the EMBRACING of homosexuality as equal to heterosexuality,,, which is BS I dont want taught to my child from people she is being taught to respect as educators,,,, All I am reading here is you want YOUR agenda, YOUR morals, YOUR beliefs fostered onto the kids. You don't care about them being able to think for themselves, you'd rather do it for them. You cannot separate what you are suggesting from the idea that you want to teach them to judge homosexuals/lesbians as less than acceptable people based solely on whom they choose to share their lives with. You just cannot do it, it goes together. The fact is, kids are GOING to be exposed to these differences as they grow up, and it's something they need to know about and understand so they can handle it. Yes risks should be taught just as much as risks should be taught for straight sex, but to outright instill them that these people are different or less worthy of respect in any way is crossing the line. They may not be able to have kids like straight people can, but there is not one damn thing wrong with being with one another, I don't care what the Bible says about it, it is not relevant for discussion as it pertains to human rights and individuality. It needs to be kept out of discussions like this. Give the child all the information totally unbiased and let them decide from there, is that that hard?? |
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I don't care if someone prays, as long as they're not trying to force me to join in. But, what do you guys get from pushing your prayers on others? Why is it so important that you're able to pray in front of big groups of people like this? What do you lose out on when you make religion and prayer a personal thing, rather than trying to force others to accept it as well? Sorry if it is off topic but doesn't this apply as well? I don't care if someone is gay, as long as they're not trying to force me to join in. But, what do gays get from pushing your gay acts on others? Why is it so important that you're able to be gay in front of big groups of people like this? What do you lose out on when you make being gay a personal thing, rather than trying to force others to accept it as well? Goodness you guys are obsessed with homosexuality. You keep bringing it up in threads it has nothing to do with. But, I'll give my response. I know many gay people and I've never been forced to join in. I've never had gay people push their "gay acts" on me. As for saying you're gay in front of a lot of people, same goes if you're straight, right? All the anti-gay people are basically getting up and letting everyone know they're straight. As for being forced to accept their being gay? You don't have to. They're just asking for equal rights. You don't have to be involved at all. its the same thing, because noone 'forces' anyone to share in their religious beliefs either just by using their own mouth to say a prayer out loud in public,,, so, I may have to put up with watching a display between two gay folks, either in public or most times I turn on my tv,, but thats not being forced to 'join' in, however much it feels like it is having it forced down my throat People are different from you, if you can't handle that than I suggest you move to a place where everyone thinks like you. Otherwise, learn to deal with it. Gays could argue straight sexuality is forced on them too, bet you wouldn't like that would you? I would suggest not. Not everyone will think like you or want to act like you publicly......that's just life. straight sex cant be 'forced' on anyone, noone is here without it,, it has to have happened for them to be able to exist to complain about it,, so I personally dont see the relevance of the comparison,,, but back on point,,,everyone, including you, should take your advice which is the point of the thread,,,and why people are applauding the young man for saying his prayer,,, but what about those who didn't believe it? to go back to my earlier comment I do believe that there was some prosteylzing going on there, intended or not. and of course you don't, you don't wanna see my argument so you're ignoring it. My argument simply is, if gays were to say to you that they were forced to see your behavior that THEY don't agree with or choose to live, that you'd not like it. So therefore, why is it ok for you to treat them the same way? sorry, quite frankly, Id call them self hating, because without THAT Behavior, they wouldnt be existing how they can 'disagree' with it is beyond me,,,, IT is ok for me to treat people equally but not treat BEHAVIORS Equally,,,I owe NOTHING to homosexual behavior, the anatomy is not built for homosexual behavior, and so it is logical and normal for me to find it ABNORMAL and disagreeable,,, Again you are ignoring the point, this is NOT an opinion issue......regardless of why they'd think that way, you wouldn't like it if they told you they didn't wanna see what you were doing, so if you wouldn't want it done to you, why is it ok to do it to them? It's not and should never have been. As for the rest, you are just showing yourself as selfish because you care more about your own morality than about what someone else actually wants for their life. You owe it to people to love them as they are, and if you are gonna cast judgment on them because they love someone who you disagree with SOLELY on biology and what you've been taught in religion, and no other reason, you fail that test. |
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I totally support (in the name of free expression), INDIVIDUALS including in their personal speeches THEIR beliefs or aknowledging THEIR intimate relationships (lover, partner, spouse,,etc) its not an issue for me about believing everyone has to think like me, its just crossing a line between what we allow INDIVIDUALS to express for themself and what we mandate our childen be taught in schools I disagree, it very much IS about everyone thinking like you, because how kids are raised and what they are taught will shape how they think later, so to say you don't want them being taught about homosexuality means you do want them to think the way you think, whether you admit that or not. You want to mold them to think YOUR WAY rather than making up their own mind with all the information available to them. |
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I don't care if someone prays, as long as they're not trying to force me to join in. But, what do you guys get from pushing your prayers on others? Why is it so important that you're able to pray in front of big groups of people like this? What do you lose out on when you make religion and prayer a personal thing, rather than trying to force others to accept it as well? Sorry if it is off topic but doesn't this apply as well? I don't care if someone is gay, as long as they're not trying to force me to join in. But, what do gays get from pushing your gay acts on others? Why is it so important that you're able to be gay in front of big groups of people like this? What do you lose out on when you make being gay a personal thing, rather than trying to force others to accept it as well? Goodness you guys are obsessed with homosexuality. You keep bringing it up in threads it has nothing to do with. But, I'll give my response. I know many gay people and I've never been forced to join in. I've never had gay people push their "gay acts" on me. As for saying you're gay in front of a lot of people, same goes if you're straight, right? All the anti-gay people are basically getting up and letting everyone know they're straight. As for being forced to accept their being gay? You don't have to. They're just asking for equal rights. You don't have to be involved at all. its the same thing, because noone 'forces' anyone to share in their religious beliefs either just by using their own mouth to say a prayer out loud in public,,, so, I may have to put up with watching a display between two gay folks, either in public or most times I turn on my tv,, but thats not being forced to 'join' in, however much it feels like it is having it forced down my throat People are different from you, if you can't handle that than I suggest you move to a place where everyone thinks like you. Otherwise, learn to deal with it. Gays could argue straight sexuality is forced on them too, bet you wouldn't like that would you? I would suggest not. Not everyone will think like you or want to act like you publicly......that's just life. straight sex cant be 'forced' on anyone, noone is here without it,, it has to have happened for them to be able to exist to complain about it,, so I personally dont see the relevance of the comparison,,, but back on point,,,everyone, including you, should take your advice which is the point of the thread,,,and why people are applauding the young man for saying his prayer,,, but what about those who didn't believe it? to go back to my earlier comment I do believe that there was some prosteylzing going on there, intended or not. and of course you don't, you don't wanna see my argument so you're ignoring it. My argument simply is, if gays were to say to you that they were forced to see your behavior that THEY don't agree with or choose to live, that you'd not like it. So therefore, why is it ok for you to treat them the same way? |
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Edited by
Kleisto
on
Sun 06/09/13 07:03 PM
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I don't care if someone prays, as long as they're not trying to force me to join in. But, what do you guys get from pushing your prayers on others? Why is it so important that you're able to pray in front of big groups of people like this? What do you lose out on when you make religion and prayer a personal thing, rather than trying to force others to accept it as well? Sorry if it is off topic but doesn't this apply as well? I don't care if someone is gay, as long as they're not trying to force me to join in. But, what do gays get from pushing your gay acts on others? Why is it so important that you're able to be gay in front of big groups of people like this? What do you lose out on when you make being gay a personal thing, rather than trying to force others to accept it as well? Goodness you guys are obsessed with homosexuality. You keep bringing it up in threads it has nothing to do with. But, I'll give my response. I know many gay people and I've never been forced to join in. I've never had gay people push their "gay acts" on me. As for saying you're gay in front of a lot of people, same goes if you're straight, right? All the anti-gay people are basically getting up and letting everyone know they're straight. As for being forced to accept their being gay? You don't have to. They're just asking for equal rights. You don't have to be involved at all. its the same thing, because noone 'forces' anyone to share in their religious beliefs either just by using their own mouth to say a prayer out loud in public,,, so, I may have to put up with watching a display between two gay folks, either in public or most times I turn on my tv,, but thats not being forced to 'join' in, however much it feels like it is having it forced down my throat People are different from you, if you can't handle that than I suggest you move to a place where everyone thinks like you. Otherwise, learn to deal with it. Gays could argue straight sexuality is forced on them too, bet you wouldn't like that would you? I would suggest not. Not everyone will think like you or want to act like you publicly......that's just life. It's a little different when people are forced sort of by way of a crowd to pray with everyone else, and made to feel guilty if they did not. If you want a public prayer, do it in front of like minds then where everyone shares that belief, no need for a big marketplace where everyone may or may not share it. That's where prosteylzing comes in IMO to answer that question. |
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Edited by
Kleisto
on
Sun 06/09/13 06:16 PM
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All I am gonna say is this, I best not hear about anyone complaining if a Muslim prays publicly to Allah, or when any other religion or type of spirituality, has a public prayer for that matter, or even when an atheist chooses to make public his or her non belief. Because if you have the right to put yours out like this, so too do they, to say otherwise is hypocritical. So yeah, you want your right to be seen/heard? Fine. But don't complain when someone else wants to do the same, because they deserve the same right then. Yep. I would like to see someone get up and recite a prayer to Satan and see who gets excited. Indeed.....can guarantee most who support this kid, would be angry at whoever did that. They're all for freedom of religious expression.....as long as it's theirs that is being expressed. They could care less about it otherwise, only when it suits them. |
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Topic:
God is NOT a loving god.
Edited by
Kleisto
on
Sat 06/08/13 08:55 PM
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I genuinely suggest that anyone who is GENUINELY interested in answers to all verses of all the sixty six books of the bible consult a bible study class and not expect anyone in a social forum to be their personal instructor,,,  Even that is gonna be biased though......how are you supposed to have an intelligent debate on something if you can't find the thing you are debating to be wrong or in error? That doesn't work. A true debate means you take the answers any way they lead even if YOU are wrong.....it's not just denying it away till it fits your side. In doing that you limit your thinking to that thing, rather than opening your mind to new ideas. EVERYTHING has bias,, no escaping it as much a part of life as death our reality, our truth, our knowledge all result from our individual/unique experiences,,, but even BIAS can contain the truth,,,, arent you BIASED against religion? so therefore , by the above logic, you are already deemed to not be able to have an unbiased or intelligent debate on the matter whomever you speak with,,, Bullcrap, there's a REASON I don't accept the religious way of thinking, it's because it MAKES NO LOGICAL SENSE! I can say that fully WITHOUT bias. If it made sense I would believe it, but it doesn't, so I reject it. You though cannot do that or won't allow yourself to, you refuse to consider the idea that maybe just MAYBE you have it wrong. I would gladly admit if I had it wrong, but you and others like you struggle to do it. You are more biased toward your religion than we are against it. Again, another ad-hominem there. And bias can contain truth I agree, there is truth in everything, but doesn't mean ALL of it is. |
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Topic:
God is NOT a loving god.
Edited by
Kleisto
on
Sat 06/08/13 08:51 PM
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I genuinely suggest that anyone who is GENUINELY interested in answers to all verses of all the sixty six books of the bible consult a bible study class and not expect anyone in a social forum to be their personal instructor,,, Even that is gonna be biased though......how are you supposed to have an intelligent debate on something if you can't find the thing you are debating to be wrong or in error? That doesn't work. A true debate means you take the answers any way they lead even if YOU are wrong.....it's not just denying it away till it fits your side. In doing that you limit your thinking to that thing, rather than opening your mind to new ideas beyond that. And just because people don't agree with Biblical interpretations of what they ask, doesn't mean they aren't genuinely interested in the answers, that's an ad-hominem attack. It just means they aren't SATISFIED with the answers given and believe there is more to it than that. There's a difference. |
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All I am gonna say is this, I best not hear about anyone complaining if a Muslim prays publicly to Allah, or when any other religion or type of spirituality, has a public prayer for that matter, or even when an atheist chooses to make public his or her non belief. Because if you have the right to put yours out like this, so too do they, to say otherwise is hypocritical.
So yeah, you want your right to be seen/heard? Fine. But don't complain when someone else wants to do the same, because they deserve the same right then. |
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